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MonStar1023
12-12-2001, 06:00 PM
What is your opinoin of POF Training? Good/bad/what? Help me out guys it looks pretty good to me but I dont know...

Midrange position. Midrange position exercises, as mentioned earlier, are simply the compound movements, many of which you use in phase 1 because they work the bulk of the fibers. Even after two sets to positive failure of any midrange exercise, however, there are still fresh fibers you can stimulate by training the target muscle in the other two positions-stretch and contracted-because they allow you to use the aforementioned myotatic reflex and peak contraction, respectively.

Stretch Position. Here you put the target muscle in an elongated state so that you can take advantage of the myotatic reflex, or prestretch. For example, on an incline dumbbell curl for your biceps you use a quick twitch at the bottom of every rep so that you can engage more muscle fibers. [For a live-action demonstration of the myotatic reflex see any of IRONMAN'S" Critical Mass" video tapes.] Other stretch position exercises that allow you to take advantage of the myotatic reflex include overhead extensions(triceps), sissy squats (quads), inline one arm laterals (lateral delt head), stiff-legged deadlifts (hamstrings, flyes (chest), one-arm dumbbell rows (mid-back), and pullovers (Lats). Notice that there's a distinct, almost uncomfortable pull on the target muscles at the bottom of each of theses movements.

Contracted positions. You usually finish off the target muscle with a contracted-position exercise, which allows you to maintain resistance through the entire range of motion and,therefore, end each rep with a powerful peak contraction. It's even more powerful after a stretch-position movement because those reserve fibers that you awakened with myotatic reflex remain in action during this exercise as well.

Week 1
Monday: Workout 1 (quads, hams, calves, chest, triceps)
Tuesday: Rest
Wednesday: Workout 2(back, deltoids, biceps, abdominals)
Thursday: Rest
Friday: Workout 1 (quads, hams, calves, chest, triceps)
Saturday: Rest
Sunday: Workout 2(back, deltoids, biceps, abdominals)

Week 2
Monday: Rest
Tuesday: Workout 1 (quads, hams, calves, chest, triceps)
Wednesday: Rest
Thursday: Workout 2(back, deltoids, biceps, abdominals)
Friday: Rest
Saturday: Workout 1 (quads, hams, calves, chest, triceps)
Sunday: Rest

Workout 1
Quadriceps
Midrange: Squats* 2x7-9
Stretch: Sissy squats 1x7-9
Contracted: Leg extensions 2x7-9

Hamstrings
Midrange and Stretch: Stiff-legged deadlifts 2x7-9
Contracted: 2x7-9

Calves
Midrange: Toes-pointed leg curls 1x7-9
Stretch: Donkey calf raises 1x12-18
Contracted: Standing calf raises 2x 12-18

Upper chest
Midrange: Incline presses* 1x7-9
Stretch & Contracted: Incline cable flyes 1x7-9

Lower chest
Midrange: Bench presses* 2x7-9
Stretch & Contracted: Decline cable flyes 1x7-9

Triceps
Midrange: Lying triceps extensions 2x7-9
Stretch: Overhead extensions 1x7-9
Contracted: Dumbbell kickbacks 1x7-9

*Do one to two light warm-up sets with 50 percent of your work on the first set and 70 percent on the second prior to your two work sets.

Workout 2
Midback
Midrange: Behind-the-kneck pulldowns* 2x7-9
Stretch: One-arm dumbbell rows 1x7-9
Contracted: Bent-over bent-arm laterals 2x7-9

Lats
Midrange: Pulldowns to the front* 2-7-9
Stretch: Dumbbell pullovers 1x7-9
Contracted: Undergrip bent-over rows 1x7-9

Upper traps
Stretch & Contracted: Forward-lean shrugs 2x7-9

Deltoids
Midrange:Behind-the-kneck presses* 2x7-9
Stretch: Incline one arm-laterals 1x7-9
Contracted: Lateral raises 2x7-9

Biceps
Midrange: Barbell curls* 2x7-9
Stretch: Incline dumbbell curls 1x7-9
Contracted: Nonsupport concentration curls 1x7-9

Abdominals
Midrange & Lower Contracted: Reverse crunches 1x7-9
Stretch: Roman chair crunches 1x7-9
Upper Contracted: Crunches 1x12-18

* Do one to two light warmup sets with about 50 percent of your work weight on the first set and 70 percent on the second prior to your two work sets.

What do you all think?

:cool::cool:

POF Tips & Reminders
1)Fight the urge to add sets. Two sets is plenty when you're going to positive failure. Remeber the all-or-none principle and how fiber recruitment is believed to occur. Notice you do only one set for the stretch-position exercises, however. This is due to the fact it usually takes only one set to activate the myotatic reflex, or prestretch, properly, which is the primary function of stretch-position movements in this routine. In other words, one set is all it takes to set the stage for maximum reserve-fiber recruitment during the contracted-position exercise.
2) The ideal rep speed is wo seconds up and two seconds down for most exercises; always keep your form strict.
3)Rest 1 1/2 minutes between sets.
4)When you can get nine reps-or 18 in the case calf workand some ab exercises-up your weight enough to bring down your reps to the bottom of the range-seven on most exercises.
5)This is an every-other-day split routine. Do workout 1 ontthe first day, rest the second day, do workout 2 on the third day,rest the fourth day, do workout 1 on the fifth day, and so on, alternating workouts with a day of rest between sessions. If you feel that this too much work and you're not recovering, try the every-other-day-split-=with-weekends-off schedule.
6)If your lower chest is weaker than your upper chest, you can reverse the order in which you work those two sections in workout 1. The same goes for midback and lats in workout 2. If your lats are lagging behind in the development compared to your midback, train lats first and then go to midback work.
7)Never do more than 24 to 30 high-intensity sets in any one workout or you risk overtraining.
8)After four weeks on this phase 2 routine you may want to take a week completely off to completely replensih your recovery system or at least go into medium-intensity phase, during whichy you stop all work sets two reps short of positive failure. Then you can repeat the two phases, continue with the phase 2 routine for another four-to-five week high-intensity phase or, if you want to really up your intensity, try the Supercompensation Routine outlined in Compound Aftershock. On that program you increase your totals for all the bodyparts, but you train them each only once a week with direct work. It's a three-days-per-week routine-Monday, Wednesday and Friday-and you work different bodyparts on each day.
9)Because you are doing more work during Phase 2, your need for more energy goes up and you should therefore increase your calories. The easiest way to do this is add to one or more of your Power Shakes. Simply up the ingrediants by 50 percent.

PowerManDL
12-12-2001, 06:02 PM
I think its too complicated for its own good.

MonStar1023
12-12-2001, 06:03 PM
PowerManDL-
Really bro? It seems pretty easy when I was looking over the actual suggested routines. I dont know maybe not.

Stretching exercises like incline curls and flyes have always worked good for me though but who knows.

Anyone else?

:cool::cool:

Maki Riddington
12-12-2001, 06:13 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by MonStar1023
BAD!

[b]Midrange position. Midrange position exercises, as mentioned earlier, are simply the compound movements, many of which you use in phase 1 because they work the bulk of the fibers. Even after two sets to positive failure of any midrange exercise, however, there are still fresh fibers you can stimulate by training the target muscle in the other two positions-stretch and contracted-because they allow you to use the aforementioned myotatic reflex and peak contraction, respectively.

*** Compound movements hit the bulk of what fibres?
The fibres that are targetted in all the muscles as opposed to an "isolative" exercise?
Because compound movements invlove more muscles does not mean it wil recruit more fibres.
I would like to see some science behind this statement.

Stretch Position. Here you put the target muscle in an elongated state so that you can take advantage of the myotatic reflex, or prestretch. For example, on an incline dumbbell curl for your biceps you use a quick twitch at the bottom of every rep so that you can engage more muscle fibers. [For a live-action demonstration of the myotatic reflex see any of IRONMAN'S" Critical Mass" video tapes.] Other stretch position exercises that allow you to take advantage of the myotatic reflex include overhead extensions(triceps), sissy squats (quads), inline one arm laterals (lateral delt head), stiff-legged deadlifts (hamstrings, flyes (chest), one-arm dumbbell rows (mid-back), and pullovers (Lats). Notice that there's a distinct, almost uncomfortable pull on the target muscles at the bottom of each of theses movements.

*** If my memory serves me correctly taking advantage of the stretch reflex has to do with the tendon, not so much the fibres.



Contracted positions. You usually finish off the target muscle with a contracted-position exercise, which allows you to maintain resistance through the entire range of motion and,therefore, end each rep with a powerful peak contraction. It's even more powerful after a stretch-position movement because those reserve fibers that you awakened with myotatic reflex remain in action during this exercise as well.

*** You can't maintain constant resistance throughout a movement, there will be varying degrees depending on the movement and where you are weak in the lift. Isokinetic machines would be the closest to constant resistance.
You don't awaken any fibres, fibres are generally recruited according to load.

The_Chicken_Daddy
12-12-2001, 06:19 PM
hey MS, once you're done reading up on these replies, go here:

http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?threadid=1207&perpage=25&pagenumber=1


it begins to be discussed near the end of the thread.

MonStar1023
12-12-2001, 07:09 PM
The_Chicken_Daddy-
Thanks a lot for the link bro.

Unfortunately I confused all of you. I wasnt really talking about the reasoning behind it etc. I was just curious about what you all thought about the specific routine itself. I am going to change it around.. just use their philosophy more or less.. you all dont agree with that at all.

A chest routine would look something like this..
Flat DB Presses ... midrange
Flat DB Flyes ... stretch
Decline Cable Flyes ... contracted

:confused::confused:

Maki Riddington
12-12-2001, 07:17 PM
Well the reasoning is kinda wonky but the exercises you mentioned for chest would be good.

PowerManDL
12-12-2001, 07:19 PM
I dont' like it because I'd be a lot more concerned about which fibers and which energy pathways are being used, as opposed to which position the muscle is in.

MonStar1023
12-12-2001, 07:22 PM
Yeah maybe the theories arent all that but when it comes down to the actual routines theyre not bad...

Quads
squats ... midrange
sissy squats ... stretch
leg. ext. ... contracted

Back
chins ... midrange
pullovers ... stretch
seated v-bar rows ... contracted

Something along these lines doesnt seem bad at all... what do you all think of the actual routines?

:cool::cool:

Maki Riddington
12-12-2001, 07:49 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by MonStar1023
[b]Week 1
Monday: Workout 1 (quads, hams, calves, chest, triceps)
Tuesday: Rest
Wednesday: Workout 2(back, deltoids, biceps, abdominals)
Thursday: Rest
Friday: Workout 1 (quads, hams, calves, chest, triceps)
Saturday: Rest
Sunday: Workout 2(back, deltoids, biceps, abdominals)

Week 2
Monday: Rest
Tuesday: Workout 1 (quads, hams, calves, chest, triceps)
Wednesday: Rest
Thursday: Workout 2(back, deltoids, biceps, abdominals)
Friday: Rest
Saturday: Workout 1 (quads, hams, calves, chest, triceps)
Sunday: Rest

Workout 1
Quadriceps
Midrange: Squats* 2x7-9
Stretch: Sissy squats 1x7-9
Contracted: Leg extensions 2x7-9

Hamstrings
Midrange and Stretch: Stiff-legged deadlifts 2x7-9
Contracted: 2x7-9

Calves
Midrange: Toes-pointed leg curls 1x7-9
Stretch: Donkey calf raises 1x12-18
Contracted: Standing calf raises 2x 12-18

Upper chest
Midrange: Incline presses* 1x7-9
Stretch & Contracted: Incline cable flyes 1x7-9

Lower chest
Midrange: Bench presses* 2x7-9
Stretch & Contracted: Decline cable flyes 1x7-9

Triceps
Midrange: Lying triceps extensions 2x7-9
Stretch: Overhead extensions 1x7-9
Contracted: Dumbbell kickbacks 1x7-9

*Do one to two light warm-up sets with 50 percent of your work on the first set and 70 percent on the second prior to your two work sets.

Workout 2
Midback
Midrange: Behind-the-kneck pulldowns* 2x7-9
Stretch: One-arm dumbbell rows 1x7-9
Contracted: Bent-over bent-arm laterals 2x7-9

Lats
Midrange: Pulldowns to the front* 2-7-9
Stretch: Dumbbell pullovers 1x7-9
Contracted: Undergrip bent-over rows 1x7-9

Upper traps
Stretch & Contracted: Forward-lean shrugs 2x7-9

Deltoids
Midrange:Behind-the-kneck presses* 2x7-9
Stretch: Incline one arm-laterals 1x7-9
Contracted: Lateral raises 2x7-9

Biceps
Midrange: Barbell curls* 2x7-9
Stretch: Incline dumbbell curls 1x7-9
Contracted: Nonsupport concentration curls 1x7-9

Abdominals
Midrange & Lower Contracted: Reverse crunches 1x7-9
Stretch: Roman chair crunches 1x7-9
Upper Contracted: Crunches 1x12-18

* Do one to two light warmup sets with about 50 percent of your work weight on the first set and 70 percent on the second prior to your two work sets.

*** Looks fine to me. That is the exercises, sets and reps.

MonStar1023
12-12-2001, 07:52 PM
Maki Riddington-
Alright thanks bro thats what I was interested in... anyone else care to reply... Paul, Chris, PowerManDL, Yates,.. etc.?

:cool::cool:

PowerManDL
12-12-2001, 07:53 PM
The actual workout looks good.

The methodology is a bit flawed, but if it works, more power to it.

MonStar1023
12-13-2001, 03:58 PM
BUMP

For more replies..

:cool::cool:

Paul Stagg
12-14-2001, 01:54 PM
POF = crap to make people buy more magazines and see more supplement ads.

Nobody would buy the magazine if there wasn't 'new' training information, right?

Chris Rodgers
12-14-2001, 04:56 PM
Paul- I buy the rags for their Muscletech ads!!