PDA

View Full Version : Calorie Confussion



PhilsterT
07-12-2005, 12:25 AM
So I know the basic principles of bulking and cutting but there's a few certain specifics that I'm confused about. Let me make a story to illustrate it.

Say Bobby is bulking and his maintinence is 2,500 calories. He decides to bulk on 3,000, but does cardio twice a week. Those two extra days he would need to eat a little extra to compensate for running. But, how does this work when someone works out? Say he has a 4-day-a-week routine. Let's say he burns 400 calories each day he works out. That means he only gets 100 above maintinence. Should people be consuming more on workout days?

Also, now for cutting: say someone cuts and does cardio. That means they would be allowed to eat more calories to compensate losing so many? But let's say someone is 500 below and does a heavy workout, now they're 900 below. Is this okay? Or should they eat 400 calories to compensate?

Also, what's the deal with this AM cardio? To lose bodyfat one must use their muscles and diet. If someone is already below calories they will lost bodyfat, so how does AM cardio sessions burn more "fat"? Is they just eat more later than won't it just fill back in? Or does this have something to do with what kind of calories are burned on daily tasks. Like? What kind of calories are burned if I go jogging? If you jog you burn calories, but what kind? I always figured I would do cardio during cut so I could eat more, and thus have more protein. But if protein is burned during my cardio, then this is senseless except for the cardiovcascular benefit.

Sorry for the lengthy post, but this is a confusing area for me and I'm seeking clarification.

thajeepster
07-12-2005, 01:56 AM
maintenance calorie numbers usually include activities like cardio and lifting... the 500 plus or minus is in addition to that number, no need to over think it.

bradley
07-12-2005, 04:12 AM
Say Bobby is bulking and his maintinence is 2,500 calories. He decides to bulk on 3,000, but does cardio twice a week. Those two extra days he would need to eat a little extra to compensate for running. But, how does this work when someone works out? Say he has a 4-day-a-week routine. Let's say he burns 400 calories each day he works out. That means he only gets 100 above maintinence. Should people be consuming more on workout days?

I would recommend that you concern yourself more with your average daily calorie intake over the course of a week, and not daily calorie intake. Just start out with what you believe to be your maintenance calorie intake, and increase slowly each week until you are gaining approximately .5-1lb. each week. At the end of each week just weigh yourself and adjust accordingly.



Also, now for cutting: say someone cuts and does cardio. That means they would be allowed to eat more calories to compensate losing so many? But let's say someone is 500 below and does a heavy workout, now they're 900 below. Is this okay? Or should they eat 400 calories to compensate?

Use the same principle that I mentioned above, but adjust your calories so that you lose .5-1lb. per week.



Also, what's the deal with this AM cardio? To lose bodyfat one must use their muscles and diet. If someone is already below calories they will lost bodyfat, so how does AM cardio sessions burn more "fat"? Is they just eat more later than won't it just fill back in? Or does this have something to do with what kind of calories are burned on daily tasks. Like? What kind of calories are burned if I go jogging? If you jog you burn calories, but what kind? I always figured I would do cardio during cut so I could eat more, and thus have more protein. But if protein is burned during my cardio, then this is senseless except for the cardiovcascular benefit.

CAlorie balance at the end of the day will be what determines if you gain or lose bf/weight. I have seen nothing that shows AM cardio will cause an individual to lose more bf than someone performing cardio in the afternoon. Cardio will help you create a calorie deficit, but it is certainly not necessary to decrease bodyfat levels.

Geeper
07-12-2005, 07:41 AM
The "theory" (which I believe, cause it works for me) behind AM cardio is that you wake up with an empty stomach and no food at all in your system. Suddenly your body needs energy, a lot of energy, to do your cardio with no where else to get it it uses the fat your body stores for just such an occasion. It also ramps up your metabolism for the rest of the day.

How's this different from doing cardio later in the day? The food (specifically carbs) you've eaten in the hours before your cardio will get used for the energy your body needs first and once that is burned off your body will go after the stored fat cells.

Personally I found at 15%-30% BF, either worked, because I was simply putting myself into a calorie deficit over the day... but below 15% BF I found morning cardio worked much better. Right now, maintaining my bf% and weight, I'm doing cardio in the afternoon and it is so much easier with food in your system!

Holto
07-12-2005, 08:35 AM
Geeper:

The problem with your theory is energy balance

If you were above maintenance the fat you burned doing AM cardio would be replaced from subsequent meals

Remember your body deposits fat after every meal

Hatred
07-12-2005, 10:16 AM
I am glad you are back Bradley.

PhilsterT
07-12-2005, 11:56 AM
Okay...so I'm assuming on days you workout people don't eat extra to compensate for the lost calories, but they do for cardio?

Unreal
07-12-2005, 01:05 PM
All depends.

Whats the point of doing cardio to burn 500 calories if you just eat 500 more? Sounds like you just wasted an hour.

Canadian Crippler
07-12-2005, 01:16 PM
So you can eat more.

Geeper
07-12-2005, 01:47 PM
All depends.

Whats the point of doing cardio to burn 500 calories if you just eat 500 more? Sounds like you just wasted an hour.

Depends on your goals... for general weight loss I would agree 100%, if you are at the bf% you want to be at and are doing cardio to have a healthy heart and keep your cardiovascular system in shape then it's an hour well used.


If you were above maintenance the fat you burned doing AM cardio would be replaced from subsequent meals

Probably, but when I'm above maintenance I don't do cardio as a general rule.

PhilsterT- I really think you are dissecting this way too much. When you don't lose or gain weight doing what you normally do (including your normal weight training) that's roughly you maintenance calories. there's no real "calculator" to figure this out as every body's metabolism is very different and we all do vastly different things through the course of a day. Tracking your calories and weight for 2-3 maybe even 4 weeks will start to give you a good idea what your maintenance is. After that cut calories to cut (general rule is 500 cals, but 1 pound a week is healthy) and add calories to add weight (general rule is 500 cals, but 1 pound a week is health and will have less fat)

PhilsterT
07-12-2005, 02:46 PM
Ah. I thought you didn't add in your normal workout routines to your maintinence. So then the days I don't work out I will be eating like...800 calories above maintinence.

bradley
07-12-2005, 07:04 PM
Ah. I thought you didn't add in your normal workout routines to your maintinence. So then the days I don't work out I will be eating like...800 calories above maintinence.

Just shoot for a daily average over the course of a week or two, and don't try and micromanage it down every day. You need calories on your off days in order to aid in recovery from the previous day(s) training. Remember you grow out of the gym, not in the gym. All this worrying could cause cortisol release which could be detrimental to your gains in the gym :evillaugh

PhilsterT
07-12-2005, 10:17 PM
Hahaha, thanks.

dissipate
07-12-2005, 10:39 PM
i'd suggest measuring your bodyfat levels at the same time because your weight might stay constant or go up even, but you lose fat and gain muscle at the same time (that's what happened to me at least).

ftotti10
07-13-2005, 10:26 AM
The "theory" (which I believe, cause it works for me) behind AM cardio is that you wake up with an empty stomach and no food at all in your system. Suddenly your body needs energy, a lot of energy, to do your cardio with no where else to get it it uses the fat your body stores for just such an occasion. It also ramps up your metabolism for the rest of the day.


Does the body not begin to break down muscle to fuel the workout as opposed to using fat stores.

ddegroff
07-13-2005, 11:02 AM
Does the body not begin to break down muscle to fuel the workout as opposed to using fat stores.

If you stay in a HR zone less than 85% of your max HR then your body calls on fat stores instead of muscle.

Jorge Sanchez
07-13-2005, 11:49 AM
If you stay in a HR zone less than 85% of your max HR then your body calls on fat stores instead of muscle.
Where did you hear that? Not that I think you are making it up, it would just be interesting to verify.

Unreal
07-13-2005, 12:07 PM
So once you cross over your body starts to burn muscle instead? Or just more muscle? Or its always doing both?

body
07-13-2005, 12:09 PM
If you stay in a HR zone less than 85% of your max HR then your body calls on fat stores instead of muscle.

your body is always using a mix of fat and carbs for energy.the ratio just depends on a few variables.

ddegroff
07-13-2005, 03:56 PM
Where did you hear that? Not that I think you are making it up, it would just be interesting to verify.

Couple of places, first in the body for life book. Second i took a physical fitness class last semester and they told me in there. I think it has some to do with once you go over that 85% of your max your body starts to call on carbs that you have injested/stored. Im not saying that your body doesnt use carbs while your below that but its uses mostly fat stores.

ReelBigFish
07-13-2005, 04:05 PM
yeah do a google search for aerobic and anaerobic

sphillip40
07-13-2005, 04:35 PM
hmm, i've heard about the HR thing as well, being able to burn more fat if kept in that area. But what about HIT cardio sessions? They really push your heart rate and HIT seems to be very effective too. I'm still fairly new to this so I might not have a clear understanding of HIT cardio, just the way i do them, my HR is definitely up there.

DoUgL@S
07-13-2005, 05:03 PM
HIIT is efficient because it causes you to burn more calories throughout the day, lets say the next 24 hrs versus the 30 min-1 hr you spend doing "normal cardio."

During the actual cardio session you'd burn doing "normal" cardio.

But calorie expenditure in a 24 hr period is more doing HIIT.