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View Full Version : I need (a lot of) help with my diet.



ShockBoxer
07-28-2005, 06:24 AM
http://www.fitday.com/WebFit/PublicJournals.html?Owner=Shockboxer

Been tracking since Sunday (24th). Which was a 'go spend the day with mother; she misses you' day so ... Smitty's for breakfast, a large (for me) dinner, and a Chocolate Brownie Earthquake from DQ. Total fat overload.

I feel more hungry than ever but my stomach can only hold so much food.

I stopped calculating individual activities because it was depressing. Maintenance 3000? I can't even hit 2 most days.

Can someone take a look and offer a few pointers? I'm aiming for 2200 to 2500, with no more than 10% of that coming from saturated fat (24 to 27 grams).

Anthony
07-28-2005, 07:10 AM
What's your goal? How did you come up with 2200-2500?

WBBIRL
07-28-2005, 08:14 AM
Why are you wanting rid of saturated fats... dont you like testosterone production???? What are your goals, are you trying to gain or lose weight??? If its loseing what other steps besides the diet are you takeing in reaching that goal. You'll hear alot of people on this fourm say that loseing weight/fat is mostly about your diet and while it is that doesnt mean you can sit on your ass all day. Now if its putting weight on then you shouldnt have much a problem eating in that cal range.. some members of this board eat 4k+ cals.

ShockBoxer
07-28-2005, 09:02 AM
I came up with 2200 to 2500 because I don't know if my stomach can take any more than that (or my bank account). My goal is to burn a few percentage of body fat while increasing strength. I don't particularly need to bulk as I'm already 180. Fitday gave me a maintenance of 2600 based on BMR + basal. I'm skeptical on that number, though.

So ultimately... goal is to get as strong as I can maintain while burning body fat.

And no, I don't want to be a cardio-fiend. I like weights. It's much more satisfying to me than spending an hour on the elipitical. After an hour at cardio I would feel like... I'd done an hour of cardio. After a weight session (even the machines I used to use before starting WBB1 this week) I'd feel like I could tear down buildings with my bare hands. I know which feeling I prefer.

As for the saturates... my choloresteral level is a concern thanks to years of being a bachelor who could afford to eat fast food every day.

Anthony
07-28-2005, 09:21 AM
Getting stronger while losing body fat is difficult, but possible. You really need to choose higher quality foods if you expect this to happen. If you want an accurate number for your maintenance calories, record your calories for 1-2 weeks. If you're weight stays the same, you have your number. Based on that number, we can guide you in the right direction.

ShockBoxer
07-28-2005, 09:45 AM
I suspect I have strength that isn't available on demand yet (read in an article here that most people only use 50%). That's mostly where I'm imagining my strength gains while burning to come from.... though some recomposition would be cool. I'm making a push to include a LOT more protein in my diet but finding it hard to get more than 100 grams.

Right now I'm trying to hit at least 1800 calories a day (BMR according to fit day). I was planning on weighing myself on the scale that read 180 last Sunday either this Sunday or next. I know weight fluctuates based on time of day, meals ingested, water drinken, and a lot of other things... when is the best time to weigh myself?

Anthony
07-28-2005, 10:08 AM
If you had 4oz of meat at every meal, you'd be well over 100g. This isn't even counting the protein you'd get from other things like rice, potatoes, pasta, milk, etc.

Best time to weigh yourself is first thing in the morning on an empty stomach.

Built
07-28-2005, 10:41 AM
Hey

I just had a peek at your fitday, and here are my observations:

Your protein is too low
Your fats are a little too low
Your carbs don't need to be this high

I'd suggest structuring your diet around the foods in "what a bodybuilder eats", based on some simple guidelines:

1.0-1.5g protein per pound body weight (or just use goal weight if you're overweight)

0.5g fat per pound body weight (or just use goal weight if you're overweight)

Calories where they need to be for your goals

The rest of your calories can be made up of any combination of protein, carb and fat you find comfortable.

I find it comfortable to target my carbs around my lifts, some don't find this necessary. I also like my fats a little on the high side, which works for me and keeps me feeling like I'm fed. This ends up, on average, meaning that most of my calories come from protein, with the rest of my calories roughly evenly distributed between carb and fat. You may find a different mix works for you. Just stick to the minimums listed above for protein and fat, and you'll find the rest of the mix that works for you.

ShockBoxer
07-28-2005, 11:20 AM
I've been using the carbs as 'padding' to up caloric intake. If I did a fitday from two months ago it would probably be 10% protein, 40% fat, and 50% carbs... and come to a whopping 1200 calories (sometimes far less. I've had days where I realize at 11 pm that I haven't had anything to eat all day and will half-heartedly eat about a cup of cereal... or down a Big Bacon Classic burger from wendy's and go to bed). I am looking to change all that and I have been ramping up caloric intake slowly but surely.

I've got the 'what bodybuilders eat' printed out (good stuff) and have been using it as a shopping guide of sorts. 80 grams of fat. Hmm. I don't really want more than a quarter of that to be saturated... any suggestions on foods that boast more mono and poly than saturated?

Built
07-28-2005, 11:42 AM
Well, since there ARE essential fats and there are NO essential carbohydrates, it seems more reasonable to me to use fats as a caloric ballast.

And I'm not alone in this thinking: from Rugged Magazine, an article by Tim Skwiat and Eric Cressey
http://ruggedmag.com/index.php?type=Article&i=2&a=6

"Protein and fat meals with very few carbs are beneficial in several other regards in these low-energy expenditure scenarios. First, such meals keep blood glucose and insulin levels stable, thus ensuring that you avoid episodes of hormonal hunger and dulled mental acuity that are associated with unstable blood glucose, insulin, and serotonin concentrations. In addition, the thermic effect--the amount of calories burned in order to process foodstuffs--of protein is about twice that of carbohydrate and more than three times that of fat (7); thus, by eating more protein, you'll be burning more calories! Also, protein and fat meals stimulate the release of glucagon (8), which ensures that fatty acids are released into the bloodstream for oxidation (9). Furthermore, protein and fat meals--along with ample amounts of fiber from low-carb, fibrous veggies that accompany these meals--slow digestion and offer far more satiety per gram than carbohydrates. By setting fat intake at a minimum of 0.5g/lb LBM, you'll be supporting endogenous testosterone levels and all the good stuff (e.g. libido, strength) that goes along with them (10). Assuming that you're balancing out your mono/poly/saturate intake, you'll also be deriving some cardiovascular health benefits (among others). While you're probably at least somewhat cognizant of the myriad of benefits of polyunsaturated fats--namely omega-3s--it is critical that you do not overlook the formidable cardioprotective benefits of monounsaturated fats (i.e. olive oil, mixed nuts, etc.)."

This is the journal reference: (10) Dorgan J, et al. Effects of dietary fat and fiber on plasma and urine androgens and estrogens in men: a controlled feeding study. Am J Clin Nutr 64(6): 850-855. 1996.

I consume raw nuts (walnuts, almonds, pecans…), natural peanut butter, avocados, olive oil, butter, red meat, and egg yolks for most of my fats.

ShockBoxer
07-28-2005, 12:24 PM
Natural peanut butter is good stuff. I bought some the other night and I prefer it's taste to normal peanut butter, it turns out. Maybe I should put a few tablespoons on some on celery for an after dinner snack.

I'll see if I can get a hold of some more 'healthy' fat foods. I'm inclined to believe what you say, healthwise, because you're built like a greek goddess. Thanks for the pointers.

Built
07-28-2005, 01:50 PM
LOL! Well, thanks.

As far as healthy fat foods, my habit is to eat mostly lean protein and lean carb food, adding in fats as I require. It's very easy to smear a tablespoon or two of natural peanut butter on celery or a chunk of apple, or to melt a little butter on my broccoli, or to dress a salad with olive oil, vinegar, walnuts, and avocado. Makes calorie-control very easy, too.

ShockBoxer
07-28-2005, 01:57 PM
That's what I've been trying to do... only without the adding healthy fat in bit yet...

It's how I've been upping my protein, as well: Scheduling snacks that are high in it and low in everything else as boosts. I need to improve the quality of my 'meal' foods, though, because there's only so much tuna and cottage cheese I can eat in a day (I'm getting used to cottage cheese. Actually, I look forward to my 10:30 am dosage at work.).

Built
07-28-2005, 01:59 PM
Try your cottage cheese with some blueberries and a handful of walnuts/pecans/almonds.

ShockBoxer
07-30-2005, 09:15 PM
Well, today is the first day I hit a good amount of sodium AND still kept my fat intake up. All glory to the roasted, unsalted peanut!

Protein is still a problem. Unless I down a cup of cottage cheese and a can of tuna a day. Tempting, but a little pricey. I think I'll check out whey... might just be the boost I need to consistantly top 100 grams as a minimum.

I also had my blood pressure taken in a pharmacy. Meh. 131/79. That's ever so slightly high, it seems... not bad considering how many k of sodium I have been knocking back for years.

Solved my sodium overdose by way of white bread problem, though. Rice cakes.

Anyone have any other suggestions for something high in protein, low in sodium and carbs?

Built
07-31-2005, 03:00 AM
Hard boiled egg whites
Lowfat cottage cheese
chicken breast
whey protein...

ShockBoxer
07-31-2005, 05:37 AM
Yes, I miss my chicken breasts. They were the staple of my at home diet... if I cooked anything it was them. A power outage just after I'd moved into my new apartment (freezer wasn't frozen yet) wiped them out and I haven't made it back to Costco to pick up another bag yet.

I eat the lowfat cottage cheese because it has 510 mg sodium per half cup instead of 600. I'd love to see 'low sodium' cottage cheese for sale but I haven't.

More chicken and get some whey. That's where my thoughts were rambling to. Too bad the supermarket around here doesn't sell bulk bags of chicken breast anymore. Must hit Costco.

Built
07-31-2005, 12:47 PM
I imagine you're using rice cakes for the fast carb post workout? If you're eating them at other times, you may find they spike your insulin too much. FWIW.

I wouldn't go into a panic about the sodium. Your BP doesn't look all that high, and there's evidence that sodium is anabolic. (http://chemo.net/sodium-.htm) I extra-salt my food when I'm cutting.

So far, so good.

ShockBoxer
08-01-2005, 05:48 AM
Well, 131 is borderline high. It's worth noting. 90-130 is normal, 131-140 is reaching for the high end. I'd like to see it below 130 and I think cutting sodium to 1000 - 2500 mg (more towards the high end on the average day) while maintaining the training routine might do the trick. Of course the training alone will probably have more effect than the sodium counting.

Rice cakes and insulin? The ones I have don't have have 7 carbs per cake and 1 gram of protein... no fats, no sugars, no salts, no nothing else. From a dietary standpoint they practically don't exist. What would make them stand out for insulin production more than a piece of bread or cup of cereal?

Built
08-01-2005, 10:52 AM
Rice cakes are a high-GI food for all the reasons you've mentioned - no fats, nothing but carb. I've seen lots of people use them instead of dextrose for the post workout insulin response. They are not quite as high GI as dextrose, but they are a high GI food.
http://www.health24.com/dietnfood/Weight_Centre/15-51-83,25040.asp
http://www.southbeach-diet-plan.com/glycemicfoodchart.htm
http://www.carbs-information.com/glycemic-index/rice-cake-gi-value.htm

Eat 'em if you want. I tend to avoid strongly pro-insulinemic foods outside the post workout window for hunger management.

And your BP is composed of a Systolic and a Diastolic. The systolic is the pressure to STOP the pulse, the diastolic is the pressure to START it again.

I'm given to understand the diastolic is the more important of the two, and yours is at the top end of normal.

If you had diabetes or kidney disease, you'd be getting some attention from your doc rignt now. But you'd be getting attention for the diabetes and kidney disease.
But hey, I'm not a doctor. Check with yours if you're not sure.

For most people, simply dropping a few pounds and getting regular exercise will serve to lower blood pressure. http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/hbp/prevent/h_weight/h_weight.htm
Yours is so close to normal, well, if it was me, I wouldn't be particularly concerned. You're dieting and training now. Check it again in 6 months and I'm willing to bet money it's down.

YungLifter
08-01-2005, 11:02 AM
Built Is that you <<<<<<< if so let me be the first to say GOD DAYM.

ShockBoxer
08-01-2005, 01:29 PM
I spent YEARS knocking back bowls of Golden Grahams, Rice Crispies, and Corn Flakes (all of which are just as bad as the rice cake). Well, if the worst thing about it is that you feel hungry later I'm not worried. I have some intestinal problems but insulin production and regulation isn't one of them.

I just use them to replace white bread occassionally for making sandwiches. Knocking back six slices of white bread = too many carbs, too much sodium by a lot. Knocking back two pieces of white bread and four rice cakes = much better for both. White bread is the same GI index, as well... so might as well eat healthier in the other regards.

(I can't digest whole wheat properly. That's why I don't use whole wheat or multigrain.)

Plus, my fiance can't stand 'em... so they're always there when I get hungry for a tuna sandwich. :)

cosmicdebree88
08-01-2005, 01:49 PM
More chicken and get some whey.

:withstupi There you go! That's it. You've found the key to eating enough protein. Without chicken and protein shakes (I prefer the protein blends like nitrean) I'd be lost at sea...

YungLifter
08-01-2005, 02:40 PM
I eat the lowfat cottage cheese because it has 510 mg sodium per half cup instead of 600. I'd love to see 'low sodium' cottage cheese for sale but I haven't.


Friendships had a No Salt added 1%milk fat cottage cheese. Don't know if you grocerey store carried friendships but I know they have it and I tryed it and its like eating the most bland thing you can possibly think of. It has 50mg of sodium

http://www.friendshipdairies.com/products/info_cottage_lowfat_nosalt.shtml

ShockBoxer
08-01-2005, 08:13 PM
Nope. No grocery store I've been to (and I've tried all the chains local, though not all the stores of said chains) carries low sodium cottage cheese. If it really is that bland I'll be thankful.

I budgetted in the 510 for my half cup of cottage cheese per day. I love the stuff now. I'm not afraid to go over what they recommend, really... been doing it for a decade or more and am only 1 point above 'normal' on blood pressure... I'd just like to go over less often.