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FighterInSnatch
08-09-2005, 03:40 PM
Ok, I have a friend that wants to seriously commit and lose weight. Since she started college she put on a few pounds. Her boyfriend left for Iraq and she wants to be trim when he gets back. Being a guy, I really dont know much about girls and dieting. Her stats are 5'3"@135, most of her weight is on her legs. What kind of diet should I look into for her? I kind of know the workout for her will be light weights and lots of cardio. Any input will be greatly appreciated. Thanx

-Ryan

YungLifter
08-09-2005, 03:45 PM
She doesn't sound like shes that out of shape. She actually sounds like shes a nice thick mami. Well first you would have to find out her maintence and then put her in caloric deficit and get her on a routine. Tell her to go to gym with you or if you work out at home to work out with you and show her some exercises. Maybe you two spending this much time together wouldn't look good from her b/f point of veiw he might shoot you j/k. Get her on a good diet and routine thats all.

FighterInSnatch
08-09-2005, 03:50 PM
Ok how do I get her maintenance? Fitday? Is that a free program to use?

YungLifter
08-09-2005, 03:54 PM
Yes fitday is free. Only use it to track her cals don't look at the other stuff. Start off at a certain amount of cals (maybe around 2000) and see if she losses or gains weight after a week of eating at 2000cals. If she stayed the same then thats her maintence. If she gained a little drops the cals some if she lost a little then shes already at caloric deficit. At 135 it should be somewhere around 2000. Try to get her to eat clean that helps.

Built
08-09-2005, 04:18 PM
Ok, I have a friend that wants to seriously commit and lose weight. Since she started college she put on a few pounds. Her boyfriend left for Iraq and she wants to be trim when he gets back. Being a guy, I really dont know much about girls and dieting. Her stats are 5'3"@135, most of her weight is on her legs. What kind of diet should I look into for her? I kind of know the workout for her will be light weights and lots of cardio. Any input will be greatly appreciated. Thanx

-Ryan

Trust someone who has been overweight with heavy legs - light weights and cardio will do nothing for her.

She needs to train like a guy while maintaining a slight caloric deficit.

If we assume on her an LBM of about 100-110 lbs (mine's about 115), have her aim for 100-150g protein daily, 50 or more grams of fat, and calories at about 15% below maintenance.

So, for instance, if her maintenance calories are 1700 a day, her diet COULD look like any of the following:

105g protein
53g fat
138g carbohydrate
1445 calories

Or
131g protein
58g fat
100g carbohydrate
1445 calories

Or
147g protein
53g fat
96g carbohydrate
1445 calories

Or
105g protein
74g fat
91g carbohydrate
1445 calories

A 3 or 4 day split with at least one leg day, toss in some AM empty walking (20-30 minutes) and or some post workout cardio(15-20 minutes fast incline walking after lower body, maybe one or two sessions of HIIT after upper body)

That's what I do, anyway.

The heavier she works her legs, the more they'll lean out. This is not going to bulk her up - not in a caloric deficit. What it WILL do is force her body to drop fat, and her legs will become deep rather than wide.

NO ADDUCTOR ABDUCTOR MACHINE. They're pure trout.

Stick to the same stuff the fellas use - AFT squats, leg press with various foot placements, leg extensions, curls, deads, oh, and walking lunges! Those things are DEADLY!

FighterInSnatch
08-09-2005, 04:22 PM
I can't figure out how to find the maintence calories on fitday.

Hey built thanx alot for the info. I had no idea how to train her.

Built
08-09-2005, 04:42 PM
You can't find maintenance calories - you MEASURE 'em.

Have her track her food for a week. That'll give you a starting point.

And you're welcome. Women and men basically train the same - think of us as little, toy versions of men when you set up a lifting programme for us.

And start VERY light. WAAAAY lighter than even YOU think.

For example, squats, start with just her body. It took me three months to work up to the Oly bar. Now I squat a plate a side, but it took me a year to get there.

Most dumbbell work, start with 3 or 5 lb dumbbells, 3 sets of 8. When she can do all 3 sets and not hurt the next day, increment, drop the reps to 3 sets of 6, work your way back up.

Lather. Rince. Repeat.

muscleup
08-09-2005, 05:44 PM
You can't find maintenance calories - you MEASURE 'em.

Have her track her food for a week. That'll give you a starting point.

And you're welcome. Women and men basically train the same - think of us as little, toy versions of men when you set up a lifting programme for us.

And start VERY light. WAAAAY lighter than even YOU think.

For example, squats, start with just her body. It took me three months to work up to the Oly bar. Now I squat a plate a side, but it took me a year to get there.

Most dumbbell work, start with 3 or 5 lb dumbbells, 3 sets of 8. When she can do all 3 sets and not hurt the next day, increment, drop the reps to 3 sets of 6, work your way back up.

Lather. Rince. Repeat.

Built, this is awesome info. My Fiance' wants to loose about 10lbs and she is currently right around 130. Should she do something similar to what you have posted?
Help would be greatly appreciated!

YungLifter
08-09-2005, 05:48 PM
Nothing wrong with girls with thick legs=)

ShockBoxer
08-09-2005, 05:50 PM
My fiance is 130 and 5'9. She just wants to feel good so I told her cardio would probably give her that glow. She immediately went and wasn't happy until she was benching the olympic bar and using the 5 pound DBs.

Built
08-09-2005, 06:11 PM
130 and 5'9" is THIN!

Lifting makes you feel WAY better than cardio. Cardio just beats you up.

Muscleup - yes. I lost 10 lbs in about 7 months doing what I've been doing and what I've outlined above. The leaner you are, the slower it goes - I started at about 19-20% bodyfat. I'm somewhere under 16% now.

ShockBoxer
08-09-2005, 06:28 PM
Yes, it is thin. She's got the figure of a model until her metabolism betrays her (though she's got great genes... her mom can't be more than 150/160 and is nearly the same height).

I just make suggestions and let her do what she chooses. I just make sure she doesn't hurt herself.

Pasha
08-10-2005, 12:04 AM
If her Boyfriend just left for Iraq, it might be quite some time before he's back. Will she be able to maintain the physique she wants indeffinitely?

I guess it doesn't hurt... I think she should do it for herself, not for him. Not to be insensitive, but he may not come back in one piece. I volunteer at a VA hospital and some of those guys look way too young.

Built
08-10-2005, 12:15 AM
Well, thank you for your encouraging words, Pasha.

malkore
08-10-2005, 09:34 AM
probably the best way to determine maintenance calories is to have her body fat tested. take that percentage and multiply it by her weight: 135lbs x .20 = 27 lbs of fat...so her lean mass is 108lbs. If you put that amount into fit day for her weight, it would give you correct caloric needs for her daily acitivites. That's the only problem with Fitday, is it has no place for your bodyfat %, so its caloric needs are off.
It says I burn 3,500 cals a day, being 190lbs and sitting on my ass at desk for 8 hours. If I tried to eat that much to maintain, I'd be bulking and not in a good way.

FighterInSnatch
08-10-2005, 10:51 AM
If her Boyfriend just left for Iraq, it might be quite some time before he's back. Will she be able to maintain the physique she wants indeffinitely?

I guess it doesn't hurt... I think she should do it for herself, not for him. Not to be insensitive, but he may not come back in one piece. I volunteer at a VA hospital and some of those guys look way too young.

She told me that she wants to do it for herself, but for him mainly. She gained like 15lbs since High School. I'm sure once she gets down , she will want to keep it.

My buddy is in the worst field too. Hes EOD-Bomb Ordinance a.k.a-Bomb Squad.
I hope he gets through this six months and comes back to a even hotter girl-friend.

FighterInSnatch
08-10-2005, 10:53 AM
130 and 5'9" is THIN!

Lifting makes you feel WAY better than cardio. Cardio just beats you up.

Muscleup - yes. I lost 10 lbs in about 7 months doing what I've been doing and what I've outlined above. The leaner you are, the slower it goes - I started at about 19-20% bodyfat. I'm somewhere under 16% now.


So Built, say if she wants to lose more weight and a little faster? What would you recommend. Her goal is 15lbs.

muscleup
08-10-2005, 11:13 AM
So Built, say if she wants to lose more weight and a little faster? What would you recommend. Her goal is 15lbs.
Yea, 10lbs in 7months is a long time. What if you wanted to loose 10lbs in 2months? :bow:

ShockBoxer
08-10-2005, 11:43 AM
((3500*10)/8)/7 = 625

A caloric deficit of 625 a day will get 10 pounds in 8 weeks.

That's easy to do with a combination of excercise and calorie counting.

muscleup
08-10-2005, 12:01 PM
((3500*10)/8)/7 = 625

A caloric deficit of 625 a day will get 10 pounds in 8 weeks.

That's easy to do with a combination of excercise and calorie counting.
can you explain the math? :)

RickTheDestroyer
08-10-2005, 12:27 PM
Yea, 10lbs in 7months is a long time. What if you wanted to loose 10lbs in 2months? :bow:

What you fail to understand here is that this entire time she was building muscle, which weighs considerably more than fat.

It's not all about the weight- that's the first thing to explain to people who look to you to help them get into better shape- even if they're trying to lose weight- weight loss might be slow, but their clothes will fit better, they'll be leaner, and they'll be stronger, look better, and feel better.
If they've got all this happening, they usually don't give a **** about what the scale says.

I have noticed this more when I've been training women who are either slightly to moderately overweight or skinnyfat, although it's probably the same for men- I wouldn't know because I started as a fatass.

ShockBoxer
08-10-2005, 12:43 PM
can you explain the math? :)

I'm a newbie at this but the way it was explained to me was

3500 calories is one pound of fat.

Taking that as a given I multiplied the desired pounds lost (10) by it.

Then I divided it by the number of weeks to lose it (2 months = 8 weeks).

Then I divided it by the number of days in the week.

If one pound of fat = 3500 calories is true then I don't see a problem with my math. Get a second opinion from an expert around here, though.

FighterInSnatch
08-10-2005, 02:50 PM
I'm a newbie at this but the way it was explained to me was

3500 calories is one pound of fat.

Taking that as a given I multiplied the desired pounds lost (10) by it.

Then I divided it by the number of weeks to lose it (2 months = 8 weeks).

Then I divided it by the number of days in the week.

If one pound of fat = 3500 calories is true then I don't see a problem with my math. Get a second opinion from an expert around here, though.

Hmmm. You lost me at 3500 calories is one pound of fat.

ShockBoxer
08-10-2005, 03:06 PM
It just is. I don't know why but it is commonly agreed that a pound of stored fat is 3500 calories.

Built
08-10-2005, 03:19 PM
Hey - Just getting caught up here.

You CAN lose fat faster than I did - in fact, I have, when I was fatter - but I wanted to go slow this time because I was already fairly lean and muscular when I started, and I didn't want to drop any muscle. I didn't add any muscle over these last 7 months, but I didn't lose any either. I was REALLY careful.

If you're less lean to start, the fat loss is easier. And the calculations for dropping weight above look correct - to a point. Weight loss is not linear - your body will react to such a drastic reduction in calories and retaliate.

While a drop of 500-600 cals for one of you bigger fellas here might be perfectly reasonable, dropping 500 cals from 3000 has a lot less impact on the metabolism than dropping 500 cals from, say, 1700.

For a woman her size, this much of a reduction for anything but a very short time is probably not a good idea - 1200 calories a day would represent a 30% reduction in calories from 1700, but the same drop from 3000 calories to 2500 is only a 17% reduction.

Drop cals by too much, too fast, and you've got a recipe for muscle loss.

SpecialK
08-10-2005, 03:33 PM
Hey - Just getting caught up here.

You CAN lose fat faster than I did - in fact, I have, when I was fatter - but I wanted to go slow this time because I was already fairly lean and muscular when I started, and I didn't want to drop any muscle. I didn't add any muscle over these last 7 months, but I didn't lose any either. I was REALLY careful.

If you're less lean to start, the fat loss is easier. And the calculations for dropping weight above look correct - to a point. Weight loss is not linear - your body will react to such a drastic reduction in calories and retaliate.

While a drop of 500-600 cals for one of you bigger fellas here might be perfectly reasonable, dropping 500 cals from 3000 has a lot less impact on the metabolism than dropping 500 cals from, say, 1700.

For a woman her size, this much of a reduction for anything but a very short time is probably not a good idea - 1200 calories a day would represent a 30% reduction in calories from 1700, but the same drop from 3000 calories to 2500 is only a 17% reduction.

Drop cals by too much, too fast, and you've got a recipe for muscle loss.

Would dropping that 625 by doing -200 per week for 3 weeks be a much safer bet?

ShockBoxer
08-10-2005, 03:47 PM
That 625 is per day to hit a caloric deficit big enough to drop 10 pounds in two months.

And like Built said (as always) it wouldn't be a good idea to drop it from food alone for an already thin woman.

I envisioned most of it coming from excercise. Like 400 cals a day worth of activity and only a 200 cal loss from food.

Built
08-10-2005, 03:54 PM
From food alone would actually be easier on the body and risk less muscle loss than, say, from diet and cardio. I don't consider the calorie loss from lifting since it's not really what you're after when you train - you do it for the anabolic afterburn. And yes, I realize I'm oversimplifying.

Bottom line, is that 625 calories is too much of a deficit for a smaller person. I don't generally like to suggest more than 15%-20% for anything but very short term weight loss.

ShockBoxer
08-10-2005, 03:58 PM
^ Living proof that she knows best about females cutting.

Just changing the time table to three months would make a HUGE difference in the daily/weekly deficit calculation.

Built
08-10-2005, 04:04 PM
Thanks Shock, but it's really not significantly different for women than it is for men. It's just that we're so much smaller, and have so much less test and less muscle mass, so it's slower and a little fiddlier. We basically gain like hardgainer-ectomorphs, but we gain fat like endomorphs. Because of this, it often takes more careful application of the same principals that men use.

muscleup
08-10-2005, 06:25 PM
OK, with all that said. I'm hearing it wouldn't be safe if 10lbs was dropped over a 10week period?
I upped the duration to 10weeks because thats what she said she would like to do.
Loose 10lbs in 10weeks.
She is stuck on the eating 2cups cereal for BFast, a healthy choice meal for lunch, and whatever I cook for dinner, which is usually a chicken brest, a green and either a small amout of rice for her, or a small amout of a baked potato.
She has a membership to NewLady Fitness, so I can't watch her train. She also thinks "Running" will solve all.

Also, shes 5'3 130lbs...

FighterInSnatch
08-10-2005, 06:39 PM
OK, with all that said. I'm hearing it wouldn't be safe if 10lbs was dropped over a 10week period?
I upped the duration to 10weeks because thats what she said she would like to do.
Loose 10lbs in 10weeks.
She is stuck on the eating 2cups cereal for BFast, a healthy choice meal for lunch, and whatever I cook for dinner, which is usually a chicken brest, a green and either a small amout of rice for her, or a small amout of a baked potato.
She has a membership to NewLady Fitness, so I can't watch her train. She also thinks "Running" will solve all.

Also, shes 5'3 130lbs...

Hey get your own thread. JK> :)

So Built I asked my friend how her first day went with her diet. She said she ate like so.

Lunch: Tuna fish sandwhich on ww bread and low fat cottage cheese.

Dinner: Grilled chicken and veggies.

I'm not sure what she had for breakfast and I know I'm describing what she ate a little too general. But is this basically what her diet should look like?

getfit
08-10-2005, 06:42 PM
Hey get your own thread. JK> :)

So Built I asked my friend how her first day went with her diet. She said she ate like so.

Lunch: Tuna fish sandwhich on ww bread and low fat cottage cheese.

Dinner: Grilled chicken and veggies.

I'm not sure what she had for breakfast and I know I'm describing what she ate a little too general. But is this basically what her diet should look like?
have a look at our sticky on "what a bodybuilder eats" that's what she should be eating!

FighterInSnatch
08-10-2005, 06:44 PM
have a look at our sticky on "what a bodybuilder eats" that's what she should be eating!

Yeh, I have told her basically what she can eat and what not to eat. Remember though she does'nt want to be a bodybuilder. :) Thanx

-Ryan

muscleup
08-10-2005, 07:10 PM
Hey get your own thread. JK> :)
haha. Thanks for letting me "work in" :thumbup:

RickTheDestroyer
08-10-2005, 07:38 PM
Seriously.
Get her lifting right and eating right for 10 weeks. Put her in a little deficit as Built says if you are inclined to do so. That may or may not be necessary as newbie gains are a beautiful thing. If she insists on running, make her do HIIT sprints. I'd make her train with you so you can make sure she doesn't do stupid **** like everyone does when they start lifting.
In 10 weeks, she will look and feel WORLDS better. I think that's a more important goal than the loss of 10 pounds, and really more what you should both be focusing on.

Built
08-10-2005, 08:10 PM
Yeh, I have told her basically what she can eat and what not to eat. Remember though she does'nt want to be a bodybuilder. :) Thanx

-Ryan

With all due respect, even if she DID want to be a bodybuilder, it's not like it just "happens". Remember, "figure" is a class of bodybuilding, only most people who would see a figure competitor in real life would probably describe her body as looking athletic, or perhaps "toned". <shudder>

The diet and training for figure and BB are the same. For figure, you just don't need quite as much muscle, and you don't get quite as shredded.

Otherwise, there's no difference in the approach. You just "stop" sooner.

As for diet, unless she's using www.fitday.com to track everything, there's really no way to know if what she's eating is appropriate, other than the "watch and wait" approach, which so far isn't working for her, right? ;)

ReelBigFish
08-10-2005, 10:39 PM
With all due respect, even if she DID want to be a bodybuilder, it's not like it just "happens". Remember, "figure" is a class of bodybuilding, only most people who would see a figure competitor in real life would probably describe her body as looking athletic, or perhaps "toned". <shudder>

The diet and training for figure and BB are the same. For figure, you just don't need quite as much muscle, and you don't get quite as shredded.

Otherwise, there's no difference in the approach. You just "stop" sooner.

As for diet, unless she's using www.fitday.com to track everything, there's really no way to know if what she's eating is appropriate, other than the "watch and wait" approach, which so far isn't working for her, right? ;)

:eek: You said the "T" word!

Built
08-10-2005, 11:58 PM
But I followed it with a shudder! :cool:

ReelBigFish
08-11-2005, 12:07 PM
LOL yeah i know, just couldn't resist.