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View Full Version : Help Needed - Bulking : Understanding how it works



Standard Hero
08-21-2005, 03:49 PM
Hi

I seem to think I understand the principles of cutting and have gotten quite lean through decent dieting and cardio.

I now wish to get bigger but keep the leaness I have just got but I can't get my head around the concept or the theory behind bulking

Please feel free to pick this apart and give me your opinions on how it works.

When cutting the concept seems to be that you create a deficet in calories to convince your body to burn fat cells thus removing the fat and letting your muscles show through the skin easier

With bulking you intake more calories but what happens to them if they are not stored and how do you get bigger without gaining fat? Surely only building bigger muscles will make you bigger if you are still lean?

As you can see I can't grasp the concept of the bulk

Would it be more a case of mainaining weight and building bigger muscles to get bigger and stay lean?




Some advice please!

I am hoping for a simplistic answer that will help me understand the process, maybe this a job for the member known only as Built!

HILL
08-21-2005, 04:07 PM
im sure built and some others will give some technical understanding and much more detail.

bulking you need to be taking in more calories than you burn to put on weight. putting on fat is inevitable while gaining weight, but can be kept to a minimum. say you need 3000cals to stay the weight you are. if you add say 300 - 500 cals you will start to gain weight and as long as your taking in the right amounts of protein and training hard your muscles will grow. this will be a slow process know as a slow bulk and should keep fat gains to a minimum. as soon as you stop gaining increase the cals again. If you wanted to do a faster bulk you could add say 1 thousand cals and go to 4000. you will proberly gain more muscle but will gain more fat as well. you need to play with these numbers to get just what you want. this is just basics. like i said some1 on here will be able to chime in with more scientific answeres for you.

Built
08-21-2005, 04:20 PM
I really think, Hill, that you covered it.

Eat more - you'll gain weight.

Eat more and lift heavy, some of that weight will be muscle.

The trick is to gain as little fat with that muscle as possible, while maximizing the amount of muscle you put on necessitates gaining some fat. It's a tricky little balance point to hit, and it's diffrerent for everybody.

When I do it, I increase the calories very slowly to let my body figure out what to do with 'em.

For a young man, with all that endogenous test, well, you're not gonna have to worry about as much fat gain as I do.

My approach would be to start with a small increase in calories (like, a few hundred), watch what happens to your strength gains and bodyfat levels for a few weeks, and proceed accordingly.

- The Member Known Only As "Built".

;)

Hatred
08-21-2005, 04:59 PM
You are going to get fat. Put it on then take it off.

Unreal
08-21-2005, 07:28 PM
With muscle comes fat. Deal with it later.

Standard Hero
08-22-2005, 01:58 PM
Thanks for the replys so far, but I am still failing to understand how it works.

I will have ago at writing my understanding of it, is this close to being right? if not what do i not understand? please edit / re-write if you have time.

The body composition is only made up of organs, fat, water and muscle. To increase mass you have to increase one of the said components? When lean you have a low amount of bodyfat so, to increase overall size you will have to increase muscle, by eating more calories that you use, while working out heavy will force the body to use these extra calories to build muscle insted of storing them as fat, thus making you bigger?

Thanks again

malkore
08-22-2005, 02:09 PM
Basically, yes.
Extra calories, and heavy weights when training will make the body use those calories to repair the muscles, and make them bigger - increasing lean muscle mass.
The body does this because it's trying to adapt at being able to lift those heavy weights more efficiently. Easiest way to accomplish this is for it to have more muscle mass, and thus more strength, to move the load. (but muscle size and strength aren't exactly directly proportional...don't get hung up on that bit)

Standard Hero
08-22-2005, 02:16 PM
Alot of people tend to bulk then cut, I would guess that...

he reason people bulk is because people are normally stronger when they are bigger and when they are lifting heavier weights the body would then try and take the fat (stored calories) and use them to repair the muscles, thus making it easier to rebuild bigger muscles and also burn some of the fat they have attained?

I would hope to keep the almost lean look i have and get bigger slowly but i am concerned it will be a painstaking process because with little or no fat the only way to get much bigger is to have huge muscles,

what others are saying where as with a little fat too i would look much bigger quicker but not as defined?

HILL
08-22-2005, 03:18 PM
there is no need to try and make it to complicated all the above info is all you need

malkore
08-22-2005, 03:35 PM
basically, you can add a couple hundred calories a day and bulk slowly and put on very little, if any, fat....or you can add 500+ calories a day, and put on some fat and quite a bit more muscle...and when you're done bulking, go on a cutting phase. the purpose isn't to add fat and muscle, its just a lot easier to add muscle if you're not overly concerned with a little fat gain.

And yes, the only way to get bigger and not just be getting fatter is to build bigger muscles, through a good bulking phase.

Silverback
08-22-2005, 04:08 PM
Bulking is outdated, its just an excuse to eat poorly, thinking your putting on tonnes of muscle, when in reality u are putting on muscle with an added ample serving of fat.

IMO a more measured approach, will yield the best ratio of muscle:fat you can acheive.

tigo
08-22-2005, 05:05 PM
^ umm don't people usually go on clean bulks? youre not eating poorly at all, just eating more.

wrestlemaniac
08-23-2005, 06:42 AM
Bulking is outdated, its just an excuse to eat poorly, thinking your putting on tonnes of muscle, when in reality u are putting on muscle with an added ample serving of fat.

IMO a more measured approach, will yield the best ratio of muscle:fat you can acheive.

plz explain this 'more measured approach'

YungLifter
08-23-2005, 06:47 AM
Bulking is outdated, its just an excuse to eat poorly, thinking your putting on tonnes of muscle, when in reality u are putting on muscle with an added ample serving of fat.

Clean bulk and bulking isn't outdated it does work ive' more then doubled the weights I lft and I notice my body is actually leaner then when I started and ive put on 25lbs already.

HILL
08-23-2005, 10:15 AM
i would also like an explanation to this as whats been explained above im sure is tried and tested many times just from members of this site and i havnt heard of any other methods of increasing muscle mass without eating more calories.

Silverback
08-24-2005, 03:09 AM
Read the ideas of Dante (aka Doggcrapp) over at intensemuscle. Of course you have to eat more calories, but there are certain methods you can use to minimise fat gained. Obviously the inclusion of drug use will benefit greatly, but cardio, carb cut-offs, pro-fat, pro-carb meals can help achieve this.

bigedge
08-28-2005, 06:48 AM
obviously its this kids first bulk lets not get him confused

eat more(quality foods) + lift more(weight) = weigh more

Holto
08-28-2005, 10:27 AM
carb cut-offs, pro-fat, pro-carb meals can help achieve this.

if any of these methods worked there would be clinical proof.

if you have any feel free to post it.

shootermcgavin7
08-28-2005, 09:30 PM
Eat as much as you possibly can.

Then, for good measure, go for seconds.

Silverback
08-29-2005, 07:24 AM
Well for carb cut-offs its pretty simple, I reccomend reading lyle McDonalds Ultimate Diet 2.0, even if you dont use the diet, you can learn so much about the body and what factors influence fat gain/loss etc...

When you go to bed Gh (growth hormone) is released/ i dont need to tell you the benefits of growth hormone! If you ingest carbs before this time you will get a rise in insulin, basically having insulin present is going to negate growth hormone release (not completely, but you wont get an optimal production).

I have an article (see link below) on pro-fat and pro-carbs. No its not clinical, but there are alot of valid points made and i beleive it does make that difference.
http://www.beyondmass.com/aboveandbeyond/january/jmo.html

Holto
08-30-2005, 09:35 AM
if any of these methods worked there would be clinical proof.

if you have any feel free to post it.

Thanks for responding Big-Andy

I know where these myths and opinions come from.

I have read Lyles work and I have read lots of stuff from Dante (doggcrapp).

They have alot of opinions, and they will remain opinions until we have proof.