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thajeepster
08-23-2005, 08:30 PM
Ok, diets changed alot here... Im going by (at least to some point) will brinks "muscle building nutrition" heres what i came up with:

oh yeah, im 5-10 between 155 and 160lbs, 12-13% bf

Workout day... M/W/F

Breakfast

Pancakes:
Buckwheat Pancake mix (1 cup)
1 whole egg
2 tsp olive oil
.5 cup 1% Cottage cheese
487 cals 61g carbs 30g protein 17g fat

Pre Workout

1 cup oats
.5 scoop whey
.5 cup 1% milk
2g fish oil
440 cals 60g carbs 29.5g protein 9.3g fat

Post Workout

1 scoop whey
25g maltodextrin
25g dextrose
.5 cup oats ( like to get some nutrients in, even pwo)
472 cals 80g carbs 31g protein 3.8g fat

Post Post Workout

70g Spelt pasta (about 1.5 cup cooked)
200g tomatoes
20g onions
70g tuna
2 tsp olive oil
2g fish oil
461 cals 60g carbs 29.6g protein 14.1g fat

Afternoon

1 cup oats
1 tbsp pb
.5 cup 1% cottage cheese
486 cals 60g carbs 31g protein 15g fat

Dinner

65g brown basmati rice
200g mixed veggies
70g cooked chicken breast
10g (2 tsp) udo's choice oil blend
484 cals 60g carbs 30g protein 14.3g fat

Before Bed

1 cup 1% cottage cheese
18g walnuts
295 cals 14g carbs 30g protein 15g fat

Totals
3126 cals 396g carbs 210g protein 88g fat (25%sat/37%poly/37%mono)




Off days Sun/T/Th/Sat

Breakfast

Pancakes
1 cup buckwheat pancake mix
8g ON whey
1 whole egg
1 tsp olive oil
1 cup 1% milk
25g oats
591 cals 84.6g carbs 34.5g protein 15.4g fat

Mid Morning

1 cup oats
4oz frozen berries
150g 1% cottage cheese
16g ground flaxseed
2 fish oil
581 cals 80g carbs 35g protein 15g fat

Lunch

75g Brown basmati rice
200g mixed veggies
70g cooked chicken breast
1 tbsp pb
2 fish oil pills
548 cals 70g carbs 34.5g protein 15g fat

Or

240g sweet potato
200g mixed veggies
90g cooked chicken breast
10g (2 tsp) udo choice
2g fish oil
560 cals 70g carbs 34g protein 15.5g fat

Or

80g spelt pasta
Lots of mixed veggies (fresh)
70g tuna
2.5 tsp olive oil
518 cals 70g carbs 35g protein 15g fat

Or

4 slices ezekiel 4:9 Sesame bread
1 tbsp pb
.5 cup milk
1 whole egg
1 egg white
550 cals 70g carbs 34g protein 15.5g fat

Afternoon

Same as Lunch

Dinner

Same as lunch

Pre bed

250g 1% cottage cheese
18g walnuts
313 cals 14.5g carbs 33.2g protein 15g fat

Totals 3125 cals 390g carbs 205g protein 90g fat (25%sat/35%mono/40%poly)

thajeepster
08-23-2005, 08:30 PM
im thinking ill see some serious gains with this, what do you guys think?

dissipate
08-23-2005, 10:47 PM
yum i love buckwheat pancakes! food looks nice and clean. i'd suggest raising protein up: 1.5g*target weight.

Built
08-23-2005, 10:49 PM
Yeah, switch up some of the carb for protein if you like. Otherwise, looks pretty decent. Fats are sufficient, really good looking food choices, pre and post workout nutrition is right on target, bedtime snack too...

Nice!

ryuage
08-23-2005, 10:54 PM
only one way to find out

thajeepster
08-24-2005, 05:10 AM
true, i was thinking of upping the protein to about 225 or so, and lowering the fats down to 80-85g, i wanna keep the protein down a tad because i believe the thermogenic effect of so much protein is hindering my gains. Im burning alot of calories just digesting the protein.

Built
08-25-2005, 03:47 PM
If you're worried about the TEF burning off too many calories, then crank up the fats - fats have the lowest TEF.

thajeepster
08-25-2005, 04:58 PM
sounds logical

ReelBigFish
08-25-2005, 06:15 PM
only problem i see with that, is that in a calorie excess fat will more easily be stored as fat. And since there isn't a deficency in carbs, the fats aren't going to be used for energy.

Haaji Dont Surf
08-25-2005, 08:25 PM
Got the nutritional breakdown on the Walnuts? Fitday is telling me 784 calories in one cup of chopped Walnuts... That sounds to be a bit too much?

thajeepster
08-25-2005, 08:28 PM
1 oz walnuts are about 180 cals, 18g fat, 4g protein and 4g carbs.

thajeepster
08-25-2005, 08:29 PM
btw, im probably not going to stay with the 90g fat, im thinking of going 400g carbs, 225g protein and 70-75g fat.

Haaji Dont Surf
08-25-2005, 09:08 PM
1 oz walnuts are about 180 cals, 18g fat, 4g protein and 4g carbs.
Gracias, senor.

muscleup
08-26-2005, 07:44 AM
Hey jeepster. Do you ever get the feeling that bulking is turning into a full time job?
I can usually go 7 days hitting 3k cals, but then the next week my hunger falls off the planet and I struggle to force feed myself.
FYI I haven't been gaining jack **** when I average 3k per day. I thought when i turned 25 i wouldn't have to average 4k/day to get mass...guess i was wrong.

I don't want to shoot your cal intake down before you give it a good go, but I'm pretty sure you are younger than me and we probably have about the same motab (yours is prolly higher even)....so closer to 4k/day might end up being the goal. And getting 4k/day clean is hard as hell...I'm going to start hitting the red meat harder i think. You know, lean beef...tip steaks and such.
Keep us updated on that current plan bro. I'll be curious to see if you can gain on 3k.

zimbo
08-26-2005, 08:04 AM
Assuming you're (1) getting enough protein, (2) getting enough good fats, and (3) avoiding bad fats then it's a matter of getting enough complex carbohydrates to meet your caloric goal. Some of my favorite bulking foods include:

- Milk
- Peanuts and/or peanut butter
- Grape Nuts cereal
- Wheat toast
- Long grain rice
- Beans
- Pasta
- Ramen noodles

Also, I might be in the minority around here but I gotta believe that the occasional donut, slice of pizza, bagel, ice cream, and/or chicken enchilada won't hurt you if you're otherwise getting the rest and nutrients you need. I personally have found that I'm more easily able to maintain a sustainable fitness lifestyle if I allow myself to eat those kinds of foods every so often.

--Steve

the doc
08-26-2005, 11:46 AM
one thing which has been brought up already and is important in my bulking experience has been to concentrate on getting the majority of your calories from fat or carbs but not both at once (of course given sufficient protein). It depends on body type (as some people tend to have trouble gaining but but the rest of us can do it fairly easy...lol) When the ratio of cals from fat : carbs is around one I tended to gain the weight the fastest (although much more fat than i would like). When I bulked on a high fat : carb diet I gained fairly lean mass (albeit at a slower pace, but with less body fat)
Others have success gaining lean mass bykeeping fat low (enough to obtain EFAs) and carbs high

Built
08-26-2005, 12:14 PM
only problem i see with that, is that in a calorie excess fat will more easily be stored as fat. And since there isn't a deficency in carbs, the fats aren't going to be used for energy.

Care to elaborate on this point, ReelBigFish? I don't understand how fat will more easily be stored as fat, and I don't understand what you mean by this part: "since there isn't a deficency in carbs, the fats aren't going to be used for energy"

Not disagreeing with you - I just don't don't get it.

ryuage
08-26-2005, 12:31 PM
in a calorie surplus fats are more easily stored as fat/triglycerides compared to proteins/carbs, hence why some prefer to limit them on a bulk.

thajeepster
08-26-2005, 12:42 PM
thanks for all the great advice guys, I think ill still keep my carbs as high as possible. All very informative and helpful replys.

I think the best way for me to go about this is probably to keep fats at or around 20%, protein around 225-230g per day, and make up the rest of my cals (3200 worth) with carbs.

Do you guys prefer to "spread" your carbs out evenly throughout the day, especially on off days, or do you center them all around your workout and breakfast on off days?

400+g carbs seems like a lot to squeeze into the first few meals, or in the meals surrounding a workout.

thajeepster
08-26-2005, 12:49 PM
also, i think instead of increasing my cals from 3000-3100 by 100-200 per day, I think i may just consume around 3500 cals on workout days, and 3100 on off days... That way I can have 1 diet, instead of 2, and not worry about changing things around due to my pwo shake.

What are your opinions on that?

ReelBigFish
08-26-2005, 02:32 PM
Care to elaborate on this point, ReelBigFish? I don't understand how fat will more easily be stored as fat, and I don't understand what you mean by this part: "since there isn't a deficency in carbs, the fats aren't going to be used for energy"

Not disagreeing with you - I just don't don't get it.

No problem. Fat is more easily stored as fat, as ryuage said, esp. in a calorie surplus, because carbs/ proteins have to be broken down in order to be turned into fat and then rereleased into the blood stream to be stored in your adipose tissue, where as fat doesn't.
the thing about carbs is, when they are low or one is in a keto. diet, the body uses it's dietary fats and body fats as an energy source, but when carbs are plentiful the body isn't using the fat you take in, as an energy source.

Built
08-26-2005, 02:35 PM
Ah - this was the piece I was missing.

Thanks Reel.

ReelBigFish
08-26-2005, 02:40 PM
no prob. Built. I do agree w/ you about most needing more fats in their diet, and i've increased my fats a good bit in the past few months. But this is the one time when higher fats aren't always as beneficial.

Built
08-26-2005, 02:41 PM
Point taken.

thajeepster
08-26-2005, 03:30 PM
i swear, ive learned more on these forums than i could in years of school. Thanks for all the great info.

thajeepster
08-26-2005, 03:32 PM
btw, reelbigfish, what your weight and fat intake? What proportion (g per lb of bodyweight) do you use on a "high" carb diet?

ReelBigFish
08-26-2005, 04:47 PM
I get a min. of .5 g per lbm. (thanks to Built's advice :)) Which is 62 g for me but I usually get 70 or more everyday. I weigh 142 w/ about 12-13% bf. It usually acutally works out to be around 25% of my cal. intake, sometimes a little more.

ryuage
08-26-2005, 05:24 PM
same i usually get .5g/lbm fat 1.5g/lbm protein and make up the rest of my diet with carbs.

thajeepster
08-26-2005, 05:55 PM
ok so my lbm is around 140 or so 12-13% bf, 155-160lbs, so .5g would be about 70g thats what im at now, 1.5 x 140 would be about 210g, i go slig=+htly higher than that, 225g

70x9=630 + 225x4=900 = 1530 .... 3200-1530=1670/4=417g carbs

Thats alot to fit into 6 meals, i think im going to have to start adding carbs to my pre-bed meal. Something like a half cup of fiber one or something like that.

Do you guys think i should just evenly spread out the carbs throughout the day though? or taper? tapering would give me something like 100g+ at breakfast and then tons more at meals 2,3,and 4... I dont like the idea shoving that much carbs at one time, but if thats what i need to do, ill do it.

Plus its hard keeping the protein down without having extremely small servings of meat, like 60g cooked chicken or something, because alot of my carb and fat sources also add protein.

ryuage
08-26-2005, 06:12 PM
in the end it probably wont matter but if you want get the bulk in pre and post workout just as refrence say 40% pre 40% post then divide the rest or just spread it evenly throughout the day its also not set in stone that you have to limit yourself to 1.5/g lbm just that I dont see any more as being beneficial especially on a bulk... basically just an expensive form of glucose but I have the same problem as you I love my big portions of beef and chicken.... fish so ya you can always trade some carbs for more protein if you would like.... cuz I can eat 400g of protein without even trying or supplementing.

thajeepster
08-26-2005, 06:27 PM
cuz I can eat 400g of protein without even trying or supplementing.

same here.

ReelBigFish
08-26-2005, 09:42 PM
Me too. I don't see how anyone has to supplement to get enough protein.

dissipate
08-28-2005, 03:09 AM
awesomely informative!! i didn't know it's better to eat less fat when bulking! *begins lowering fat intake in next week's menu*

i'm wondering though....... what if the person is carb sensitive? i'm carb sensitive and am afraid of eating such huge amounts of carbs..

EDIT: oops nevermind i think.. i just read thedoc's post