how much clomid and novaldex?

[Frankster]

A friend of mine at the gym wants to know how much and how to take the novaldex and clomid in this cycle:


6 dbols/ day for 4 weeks
1cc deca/week for the whole cycle (10 weeks)
1cc Sust/week for the whole cycle (10 weeks)

[Tadger]

Knowing the volume doesn't help us too much. We need to know the concentration. Either way, doesn't look like too much gear. Don't think he'll need the nolva. If he sees any problems with gyno, start at 10mg/day for a few days then bring the dosage down and see if he still has a problem. As for the clomid, run that 100mg/day the first week and 50mg/day for two weeks after that. Start a week or so after his last injection.

[Severed Ties]

Their is no need for Nolvadex if Clomid is used. Just run clomid straight throught the cycle, 50mg EOD. It has enough benifits to justify the small additional cost. Also I'd recommend he stop the Deca at week 8.

ST

[Tadger]

ST, I don't know if that's necessary. The clomid will inhibit protein synthesis just as nolvadex would. I don't know if the effect is as pronounced, but still. I've talked to a few that have actually run it all the way through. They said they've made better gains using less gear on other cycles w/o the clomid. If you want to use clomid as an antiestrogen that's fine, but I would only use it if a problem develops or for post cycle recovery. I don't even think dosages of test that low will cause much of a problem if any at all unless he's pretty sensitive.

[Severed Ties]

From what I've looked at the reduction in protein synthesis is rather small, secondly Anabolics increase muscle growth through more than just increases in protein synthesis so I think the results would be negligable. I've never bought into accessory drugs like clomid, ,nolvadex, arimidex, finasteride hindering muscle growth. Theirs always someone claiming they got better growth a certain way. In my experience they run an anti-estro during an early cycle, their diet sucks and they don't know much about what their doing. Then they learn a bit, learn some nutrition and hear that their accessory drug reduces protein synthesis so they blame it for their cycle sucking. Then they repeat the same cycle, drop the clomid but don't account for what they've learned about nutrition and then their gains are much more pronounced and clomid becomes their scapegoat.

I'd agree with you that it's highly unlikly he's need an anti-estro on this cycle. However when I spoke to someone extremely knowledgable in the area of gyno, I was explained that the side effects of gyno you feel (puffy/sore/itchy/tender nipples) are a secondary effect of AFTER the tissue has started to grow not a warning sign. Adding an anti-estro in immediately can halt any further growth but in a majority of cases their has already been some amount of residual growth, now you might not be able to "see" it yet with your eye and just assume you caught it and are fine, but over the course of many cycles it can become noticable if you don't do anything to prevent the start of gyno.

On top of that Clomid can help reduce bloating and has a favorable effect on blood lipids...which AS generally reak havok on. It's also reported that Clomid can reduce the amount of testicular shrinkage.

So I'm not saying it will reduce gains in any way because I simply don't believe that but even if it did cost a few pounds of LBM I'd still say it was worth the it for the benifits.

ST

[Tadger]

In my experience they run an anti-estro during an early cycle, their diet sucks and they don't know much about what their doing. Then they learn a bit, learn some nutrition and hear that their accessory drug reduces protein synthesis so they blame it for their cycle sucking.
Heh heh. Naw, this is a trusted friend that really knows his stuff. He's been in the game for quite a while. He knows his gear quite well and basically runs the gear year round. He's tried running things every which way and says that if you run clomid/nolvadex during a cycle that you'll definitely notice the difference even at lower dosages. He's had better luck with 750test/600deca with some dbol while using arimidex, than using well over a gram of test/week, deca, eq, dbol and running nolva straight through. I can only imagine that the arimidex had quite a bit to do with that as less test is lost, but it's just one example that I've been given. The research that I've read on clomid and nolva show a pretty dramatic effect.

You're quite right as far as the breast development that's taken place and all before the gyno symptoms show up. This is one reason that I think people should get to know how their body reacts on lower dosages, find their limits and when they progress to heavier cycles and the potential sides are more dangerous they'll know how to deal with things better.

Frankster, I guess the bottom line is... If he's terribly worried about gyno... get some arimidex. Then this whole debate is negated. lol.

[Reinier]

talk to me about clomid. i know its used post cycle to scare off sides, but just how does it do that? whats it do?

blocks estrogen?

[Tadger]

It's a synthetic estrogen. It binds to the estrogen receptor preventing estrogen from binding. It just basicly just gets in the way long enough for you liver to deactivate the estrogen before it can bind with anything and cause problems. Clomid will increase endogenous test production, so when the HPTA is suppressed after a cycle, the clomid helps you recover faster.

[Reinier]

sound like it might have some good effects on adolescent hormone levels? like puberty gyno?
or would that just **** you up entirely?

[kAto]

IMO screw the nolva, and running clomid throughout, if money is not an issue, run arimidex/liquidex, throughout, and just do clomid the traditional wasy at the end, with armidex running for the following weeks, this will help in hpta recovery, however its rather pricey so........

[Frankster]

The guy is also curious if the price he is getting are anygood (considering it is a local deal)

d-bol .79c us pill
sust 15-19$ 1cc
deca 15-19$ 1cc

[heathj]

This guy is Sinep :p Heh...by the way, where the hell is Sinep?

[Tadger]

Decent prices for domestic mail order is

dbol 100tabs (500mg) - $50
deca 2grams - $100
sust 2.5grams -$65

If you're gettin it from someone first hand... then look for those prices to double.

[Severed Ties]

Tadger your guy may be right, no one will ever know for sure, but the arimidex makes a HUGE difference in his argument. it varies from person to person but you can lose somewhere around 30% of the Test you inject to estrogen conversion then DHT conversion you may only end up with half of what you injected. I always push for arimidex especially with it's cost coming down. I'd also be willing to bet that someone running 500mg's of Test with arimidex and finasteride would make the same gains if not better than someone running a gram of Test with clomid.

ST

[kAto]

Originally posted by Tadger
Decent prices for domestic mail order is

dbol 100tabs (500mg) - $50
deca 2grams - $100
sust 2.5grams -$65

If you're gettin it from someone first hand... then look for those prices to double.


id say these prices are pretty *****in cheap for domestic; foreign prices range from what you just stated; i guess you gots some good hook-ups eh?

10 amps of sust for $65.00 thats cheaper than any source ive EVER came across; if your referring to vials then i guess its diff.

dbols, 100/5mg tabs for $35, or 250/10mg tabs for $150.00
these are the cheapest dbols ive came across.

[Severed Ties]

Really depends on how many people the stuff has passed through, cause everyone is making money except the guy thats shooting it.

dbol around $.50-$.75 a pill.
Deca's real cheap if your buying Brovel's garbage.
Sust/Omna usually sells between $8-$12/amp however I've seen gyms near me mark it up to $15-$18/amp. However if your one of the cool people it cost less than a shot a Jack. :cool:

ST

[FreakySize]

Tadger quit trying to act like mister know it all. Severed Ties knows his stuff. And everyone knows that the more test you have the more protein synthesis. So it makes sense to take a anti-e. This isnt rocket science.

[Belial]

Freakysize, having a debate is one thing, but nobody around here will tolerate post stalking. Trying to discredit Tadger because you had a disagreement in an earlier thread is not the way to bolster your own credibility.

[Maki Riddington]

Originally posted by FreakySize
Tadger quit trying to act like mister know it all. Severed Ties knows his stuff

*** Dude you need to chill out. Tadger is well versed with As so you need not preach to him about his lack of knowledge in this area.

[Tadger]

Actually I hardly remember this thread. I've since reevaluated a few things. I think that running clomid or a small amount of nolvadex throughout the cycle isn't a bad idea... and even when running arimidex. I still tend to think that nolvadex inhibits protein synthesis a bit more than clomid because of the way it supresses IGF-1 levels.

[FreakySize]

Looks like everyone spoke too soon. YOu guys need to do more research before you make your posts. And belial you keep your posts out of Anabolic.

[Belial]

Originally posted by FreakySize
And belial you keep your posts out of Anabolic.

LMAO! And what are you going to do about it? Your boys agreed with me over there, and they shot you down. You're a stupid little kid, freaky. You're arrogant, ignorant, know precisely dick about gear, and are otherwise a complete *******.


You're also banned.

Good bye.

[Maki Riddington]

Muhahahahaha.:evillaugh

[Tadger]

Good call, B.