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Y0yo
09-06-2005, 03:45 AM
Is there any major disadvantages to lifting and being vegetarian? I understand that it's still possible to get all your macronutrients in, so I would assume there aren't any. The reason I ask is for a friend who is a vegetarian and wants to bulk. I want to be able to give some form of advice on what to do, but all I can say at this point is eat and make sure you're getting your protien and dietary fats in.

tigo
09-06-2005, 04:11 AM
the only disadvantage i would see would be the difficulty to get in macros.

what degree of vegetarianism?

does he eat fist, eggs, dairy products.. ?

TheGimp
09-06-2005, 05:49 AM
I'm a vegetarian.

The obvious disadvantage is where to get your protein from, but I find it easy to get at least 1g/lb of bodyweight from dairy, eggs, protein powder, legumes, nuts, meat substitutes etc.

getfit
09-06-2005, 08:23 AM
I'm a vegetarian.

The obvious disadvantage is where to get your protein from, but I find it easy to get at least 1g/lb of bodyweight from dairy, eggs, protein powder, legumes, nuts, meat substitutes etc.
yep! exactly! no problem here! :)

dissipate
09-06-2005, 08:46 AM
get your friend to check out gimp's journal!!

law56ker
09-06-2005, 08:57 AM
I'm a vegetarian.

The obvious disadvantage is where to get your protein from, but I find it easy to get at least 1g/lb of bodyweight from dairy, eggs, protein powder, legumes, nuts, meat substitutes etc.

If you eat whey or eggs your not a vegatarian. They come from animals.

spanky33
09-06-2005, 09:02 AM
I think it's called lacto-ovo vegetarianism

getfit
09-06-2005, 09:03 AM
If you eat whey or eggs your not a vegatarian. They come from animals.
www.foodcomm.org.uk/animal_veggie.htm

Y0yo
09-06-2005, 09:55 AM
If you eat whey or eggs your not a vegatarian. They come from animals.

OK, well then he doesn't eat meat. He does eat fish and dairy products though. Tofu is something he eats all the time, however I was under the impression that soy protien raises estrogen levels which, and correct me if I'm wrong, is not the greatest thing for a guy.

He's got his whey, so I guess he's alright as far as protien goes. Otherwise, I guess there really is no disadvantage.

Thanks


www.foodcomm.org.uk/animal_veggie.htm

I was trying to look for a similar link, and then I clicked this one. Guess that answers that :)

Mik
09-06-2005, 09:59 AM
does he eat fist

Where does this fall on the macro scale? :D

TheGimp
09-06-2005, 11:12 AM
If you eat whey or eggs your not a vegatarian. They come from animals.

No it means I'm not a vegan.

A vegetarian eats dairy and eggs.

TheGimp
09-06-2005, 11:14 AM
OK, well then he doesn't eat meat. He does eat fish and dairy products though. Tofu is something he eats all the time, however I was under the impression that soy protien raises estrogen levels which, and correct me if I'm wrong, is not the greatest thing for a guy.


If he eats fish then he should have no problem at all. (and probably shouldn't call himself a vegetarian)

Here are a few studies on the subject of soy and men:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=12094627


Soy milk intake in relation to serum sex hormone levels in British men.

Allen NE, Appleby PN, Davey GK, Key TJ.

Cancer Research UK Epidemiology Unit, University of Oxford, Oxford OX2 6HE, UK. naomi.allen@cancer.org.uk

Soy beans contain high levels of the isoflavones genistein and daidzein and their glycosides and have been implicated in the prevention of prostate cancer, possibly via their effects on sex hormone metabolism. The aim of this study was to assess the relation between dietary soy intake and sex hormone levels in a cross-sectional analysis of 696 men with a wide range of soy intakes. Soy milk intake was measured using a validated semiquantitative food frequency questionnaire, and serum hormone concentrations were measured by immunoassay. Multiple regression was used to investigate the association between soy milk intake, an index of isoflavone intake, and hormone levels after adjustment for pertinent confounders. Soy milk intake was not associated with serum concentrations of testosterone, free testosterone, androstanediol glucuronide, sex hormone-binding globulin, or luteinizing hormone. These results suggest that soy milk intake, as a marker of isoflavone intake, is not associated with serum sex hormone concentrations among free-living Western men.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11880595


Hormonal effects of soy in premenopausal women and men.

Kurzer MS.

Department of Food Science and Nutrition, University of Minnesota, St. Paul, MN 55108, USA. mkurzer@umn.edu

Over the past few years, there has been increasing interest in the possible hormonal effects of soy and soy isoflavone consumption in both women and men. Soy consumption has been suggested to exert potentially cancer-preventive effects in premenopausal women, such as increased menstrual cycle length and sex hormone-binding globulin levels and decreased estrogen levels. There has been some concern that consumption of phytoestrogens might exert adverse effects on men's fertility, such as lowered testosterone levels and semen quality. ... Only three intervention studies reported hormonal effects of soy isoflavones in men. These recent studies in men consuming soyfoods or supplements containing 40--70 mg/d of soy isoflavones showed few effects on plasma hormones or semen quality. These data do not support concerns about effects on reproductive hormones and semen quality.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11767208


Effects of soy protein on levels of remnant-like particles cholesterol and vitamin E in healthy men.

Higashi K, Abata S, Iwamoto N, Ogura M, Yama****a T, Ishikawa O, Ohslzu F, Nakamura H.

First Department of Internal Medicine, National Defense Medical College, Tokorozawa, Saitama, Japan.

We determined the effects of soy protein isolate (SPI) intake on remnant-like particles (RLP), lipolytic enzymes, lipid transfer protein, transaminases, sex hormones, iron, calcium, and vitamin E in healthy men. In the first randomized, crossover experiment, 14 men were given either 20 g per day of SPI or nothing (control) for each 4-week segment. After 3 weeks of SPI intake, TG and RLP cholesterol levels were significantly lower than the baseline by 13.4% (p<0.05) and 9.8% (p<0.05), respectively. However, no significant change was found in total and low-density lipoprotein (LDL) cholesterol levels or the activities of lipoprotein lipase, hepatic lipase, cholesteryl ester transfer protein, and lecithin cholesterol acyltransferase. Although the levels of transaminases. testosterone, iron, and calcium did not change, the vitamin E level was reduced from the baseline by 9.7%, a significant decrease (p<0.01)...


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11303585


Effect of soymilk consumption on serum estrogen and androgen concentrations in Japanese men.

Nagata C, Takatsuka N, Shimizu H, Hayashi H, Akamatsu T, Murase K.

Department of Public Health, Gifu University School of Medicine, Japan.

... We conducted a randomized dietary intervention study to determine the effects of soy consumption on serum levels of steroid hormones in men. Thirty-five men were randomly assigned to either a soymilk-supplemented group or a control group. The men in the soy-supplemented group were asked to consume 400 ml of soymilk daily for 8 weeks. The men in the control group maintained their usual diet. Blood samples were obtained just before the initiation of the dietary period and thereafter every two weeks for 12 weeks. Changes in hormone concentrations were analyzed and compared between the two groups using the mixed linear regression model against weeks from the start of the dietary period. The mean (SD) soymilk intake estimated from dietary records during the dietary study period was 342.9 (SD, 74.2) ml in the soymilk-supplemented group. There was a significant difference between the two groups in terms of changes in serum estrone concentrations, which tended to decrease in the soy-supplemented group and increase in the control group over time. None of the other hormones measured (estradiol, total and free-testosterone, or sex hormone-binding globulin) showed any statistical difference between the two groups in terms of patterns of change. The results of the study indicate that soymilk consumption may modify circulating estrone concentrations in men.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=10798211


Inverse association of soy product intake with serum androgen and estrogen concentrations in Japanese men.

Nagata C, Inaba S, Kawakami N, Kakizoe T, Shimizu H.

Department of Public Health, Gifu University School of Medicine, Japan.

The cross-sectional relationships of soy product intake and serum testosterone, estrone, estradiol, sex hormone-binding globulin, and dihydrotestosterone were examined in 69 Japanese men. Soy product intake was estimated from a semiquantitative food frequency questionnaire. Serum estradiol concentration was significantly inversely correlated with soy product intake (r = -0.32, p = 0.009), and serum estrone concentration was nonsignificantly inversely correlated with soy product intake (r = -0.24, p = 0.05) after controlling for age, body mass index, smoking status, and ethanol intake. Total and free testosterone concentrations were inversely correlated with soy product intake after controlling for the covariates, but these correlations were of border line significance (r = -0.25, p = 0.05 and r = -0.25, p = 0.06, respectively). Similar correlations were observed for these hormones with isoflavone intake from soy products. The data suggest that soy product intake may be associated with the endogenous hormone levels in Japanese men.

Summary: Soy will most likely not negatively impact your testosterone levels. The latter two studies even suggest that soy consumption could reduce estrogen levels in men.

Built
09-06-2005, 01:34 PM
There is a case for adding creatine as a supplement for vegetarians:

http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/creatine-vegetarians.html

TheGimp
09-06-2005, 01:38 PM
There is a case for adding creatine as a supplement for vegetarians:

http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/creatine-vegetarians.html

"doh". Excellent point Built :)

BG5150
09-06-2005, 02:39 PM
Why is fish not considered "meat" to some people?

malkore
09-06-2005, 02:50 PM
Why is fish not considered "meat" to some people?

Cuz they rode the short bus.

Honestly, I don't know...maybe it stems from how Catholics can't eat 'meat' on friday, but can eat fish? (I hope I got that right...)

Y0yo
09-06-2005, 10:21 PM
Why is fish not considered "meat" to some people?

I'll ask next time. I call him a vegetarian, I don't think he calls himself that. It's shorter than "He doesn't eat meat, but he eats fish" when people ask. I think his non-meat eating days came after working at McDonalds for a few years.

Guess I'll be adding tofu to my diet too.