Ugh, L-Arginine

[Beast]

How many of you have taken this? OMG, I imagine it tastes like the seminal fluid from a corpse! Ughhhhhhhh.

[Wierz]

I was under the impression that supplementing one specific amino acid wasn't necessary since diets high in animal protein would supply more than enough?

Is this not true? Or are you supplementing for other reasons?


And I've taken L-Glutamine before. And yes, it tasted like arse.

[Maki Riddington]

Not yet but I am going to buy some powder in the near future.

[Beast]

I'm not one for supplements other than the good old multivitamin and whey protein, but a group of researchers at A&M have been doing studies of the effects of Arginine in mice and recently published this article:

Dietary L-Arginine Supplementation Reduces Fat Mass in Zucker Diabetic Fatty Rats
Wenjiang J. Fu, et al.

This study was conducted to test the hypothesis that dietary supplementation of arginine, the physiologic precursor of nitric oxide (NO), reduces fat mass in the Zucker diabetic fatty (ZDF) rat, a genetically obese animal model of type-II diabetes mellitus. Male ZDF rats, 9 wk old, were pair-fed Purina 5008 diet and received drinking water containing arginine-HCl (1.51%) or alanine (2.55%, isonitrogenous control) for 10 wk. Serum concentrations of arginine and NOx (oxidation products of NO) were 261 and 70% higher, respectively, in arginine-supplemented rats than in control rats. The body weights of arginine-treated rats were 6, 10, and 16% lower at wk 4, 7, and 10 after the treatment initiation, respectively, compared with control rats. Arginine supplementation reduced the weight of abdominal (retroperitoneal) and epididymal adipose tissues (45 and 25%, respectively) as well as serum concentrations of glucose (25%), triglycerides (23%), FFA (27%), homocysteine (26%), dimethylarginines (18–21%), and leptin (32%). The arginine treatment enhanced NO production (71–85%), lipolysis (22–24%), and the oxidation of glucose (34–36%) and octanoate (40–43%) in abdominal and epididymal adipose tissues. Results of the microarray analysis indicated that arginine supplementation increased adipose tissue expression of key genes responsible for fatty acid and glucose oxidation: NO synthase-1 (145%), heme oxygenase-3 (789%), AMP-activated protein kinase (123%), and peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor {gamma} coactivator-1{alpha} (500%). The induction of these genes was verified by real-time RT-PCR analysis. In sum, arginine treatment may provide a potentially novel and useful means to enhance NO synthesis and reduce fat mass in obese subjects with type-II diabetes mellitus.

Granted, the mice are diabetic and obese, but you never know... maybe it will work for us non-obese people!

They mentioned this study in the latest Men's Health and said that the amounts they gave the mice were equal to about 14 GRAMS of the stuff going into humans... I think normally people take like 4 grams or so.

[Beast]

I was under the impression that supplementing one specific amino acid wasn't necessary since diets high in animal protein would supply more than enough?

Is this not true? Or are you supplementing for other reasons?


And I've taken L-Glutamine before. And yes, it tasted like arse.
It is definitely true that excess amino acids are stored as fat. Anything that can be stored as fat is stored as such if it is in excess in the body.
However, I think the other effects of Arginine (the ones listed in the study i just quoted) could definitely outweigh the negative effects.

[Slim Schaedle]

How many of you have taken this? OMG, I imagine it tastes like the seminal fluid from a corpse! Ughhhhhhhh.
Get some crystal light, mix with the arginine in a glass with a little water. It's a little tangy, but it wakes you up a little.

[Wild Cat McCane]

still better, get it in pill form. And I thought everyone was against this supplement?

I like it a lot.

14 grams?

It gives you the runs if you take to much. Watch out for that...

[Canadian Crippler]

They mentioned this study in the latest Men's Health and said that the amounts they gave the mice were equal to about 14 GRAMS of the stuff going into humans... I think normally people take like 4 grams or so.This is exactly it. There are many studies that establish advantages to supplenting L-Arginine, however the amounts needed to be taken are incredibly high. To the point where other concerns come into play.

Don't ask me questions about it though, this is just what I read in some other argument in some other thread.

[Beast]

Get some crystal light, mix with the arginine in a glass with a little water. It's a little tangy, but it wakes you up a little.
Man, when you're taking 6 or 7 grams at a time, it would take a gallon of crystal light to mask the taste. I tried it and the **** basically neutralizes crystal light, lol.

I'll let you guys know of any of its effects.

[djreef]

I just nut up and buy it in capsule form. I take it every once in a while, whenever I want to feel the pump - like on the weekend b-4 I go out. Be careful, though. If you've got any type of herpes, taking loads of this stuff will make you break out.

Funny story, actually. Years ago, I recommended to a friend that he might want to take a few grams of the stuff b-4 bed if he wanted to stimulate natural GH production while he slept. At the time there had been a number of limited studies done that indicated that taking L-arginine b-4 bed helped with this. Except I forgot to tell him about the herpes thing. Well, he came into the gym that following week and it looked like someone had put a cigar out on his upper lip. He had a cank on his mouth the size of a bottle cap. I told him it was prob because of the amino, and he got ragin' pissed. Everyone was jacking with him about it. Come to find out he was taking like 6 grams of the stuff a day. I apologised profusely, but the guy never spoke to me after that. I guess he was really mad - prob still is to this day. So any way, moral of the story - keep your eyes peeled for any 'inflamation' issues while you're on this stuff.

DJ

[Beast]

Herpes? Gross.

[icanrace]

caps for sure IMO..............6-9g per day is what I take when taking it

[shootermcgavin7]

Yes, it's pretty much the worst-tasting thing imaginable.


I've never gotten any noticable bbing benefit from it, but it works wonders for your cardiac system.

[Wierz]

Yes, it's pretty much the worst-tasting thing imaginable.


I've never gotten any noticable bbing benefit from it, but it works wonders for your cardiac system.


How so?

[Wild Cat McCane]

Does this heart your heart? I'm curious cause it is dialating (spelling?) everything...so you heart is a muscle and it has veins....

[shootermcgavin7]

How so?


Studies by the Journal of the American College of Cardiology and the New England Journal of Medicine have shown that it (forgive me, some of these are repetitive, I grabbed them from different places):

Improves coronary artery blood flow (the reason why NO2 scammers sell it for the "pump")

It reduced pathological increases in the thickness of plaque-lined vessel walls in people with elevated cholesterol and artherosclerosis

Lowers cholesterol

Improves blood-vessel relaxation in young men with elevated serum cholesterol and coronary artery disease



While I'm sure there are prescription drugs out there that do a better job than Arginine in these various tasks; it is still wrong to say that L-Arginine is worthless for the cardiac system.

[Wierz]

Studies by the Journal of the American College of Cardiology and the New England Journal of Medicine have shown that it (forgive me, some of these are repetitive, I grabbed them from different places):

Improves coronary artery blood flow (the reason why NO2 scammers sell it for the "pump")

It reduced pathological increases in the thickness of plaque-lined vessel walls in people with elevated cholesterol and artherosclerosis

Lowers cholesterol

Improves blood-vessel relaxation in young men with elevated serum cholesterol and coronary artery disease



While I'm sure there are prescription drugs out there that do a better job than Arginine in these various tasks; it is still wrong to say that L-Arginine is worthless for the cardiac system.

I wasn't trying to refute it at all, I was interested since I have an irregular heart beat and strange pains associated with them.

[shootermcgavin7]

I wasn't trying to refute it at all, I was interested since I have an irregular heart beat and strange pains associated with them.


At least anecdotally, I can attest to a drop in blood pressure, (similar to that caused by Viagra, etc; which also shares the increased blood flow quality; they operate by a similar mechanism).

And the increased "pump" caused by blood flow increases are attested to by many on the board.


I'm not sure whether or not it would help/hurt your heart beat; that question would be better suited to a doctor.

[sCaRz*Of*PaiN]

You get an overabundance of arginine from animal protein, so I don't see the point of supplementing it, IMO.

[shootermcgavin7]

You get an overabundance of arginine from animal protein, so I don't see the point of supplementing it, IMO.


You get 10-15 g of pure L-arginine from your daily protein intake?

What are your cals like?

[RickTheDestroyer]

I'm pretty sure I've said this before, but mix it with lemon juice. Add some and stir it, and if it's still weird and flourescent-looking, add some more. You can then drink that straight, or mix it with orange juice or something.
I used to take 8-10 grams a night plus 3 capped pre-workout.

I felt that the pump was noticeable, but I noticed more uh... sexual side effects than anything in the gym.

I stopped taking it because for it to work its best, it's really supposed to be taken on an empty stomach before bed (at least for the the alleged GH spike). I basically never have an empty stomach, and definitely don't go to bed with one.

It was pretty fun for awhile, in a really obscene way.

[Beast]

You get an overabundance of arginine from animal protein, so I don't see the point of supplementing it, IMO.
You get about as much arginine from the food you eat as you get creatine... not a lot.

[CarlP]

I'm pretty sure I've said this before, but mix it with lemon juice. Add some and stir it, and if it's still weird and flourescent-looking, add some more. You can then drink that straight, or mix it with orange juice or something.
I used to take 8-10 grams a night plus 3 capped pre-workout.

I felt that the pump was noticeable, but I noticed more uh... sexual side effects than anything in the gym.

I stopped taking it because for it to work its best, it's really supposed to be taken on an empty stomach before bed (at least for the the alleged GH spike). I basically never have an empty stomach, and definitely don't go to bed with one.

It was pretty fun for awhile, in a really obscene way.

So you were a walking erection? That should be fun while trying to bench press.