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Hazerboy
10-03-2005, 04:28 PM
Ok so today was the first day of pre-season wrestling conditioning, and our coach has us doing some circuit training, mat work, and weightlifting. Here's what one day's routine looks like:

Warm-Up: Jog/Run a mile

Back and Biceps

Pull ups: Bodyweight, 12 x 10 x 8 x 6 (reps)
One Arm dumbell Row: 12 x 10 x 8 x 6
Concentration Curls: " "
Hammer Curls: " "

Circuit:

*Ankle Pushers ( Lie on your back w/ a partner standing up near your head, lift your legs straight up (45 degrees), partner pushes them back down, repeat)

*Sit ups

*Ab rollers (like the ab roller commercial, only with an oly bar w/ 25's on each side)

*Pushups

*Box Jumps

*Push Press/Squat press? (like a military press only explosive and using your legs)

*One legged Squats w/ Box

Everything in the circuit is done for a minute, then you switch and your partner goes for a minute. There is no rest between stations.

Mat Work: Stud Duck, Drilling, Etc.


My Question is, what is my coaches philosphy on the weightlifting? The split looks something like this:

Monday:Back/Biceps
Tuesday: legs/Shoulders
Wendsday: Running
Thursday: Triceps/Chest
Friday: Back/Biceps

it rotates from week to week, for instance next week monday will be legs/shoulders. on Sundays we're expected to jog for 30 minutes or so.

Anyways, is my coaches goal with the weightlifting to put on mass or strength, or just get us moving around? There aren't alot of explosive movements except for maybe squats or cleans on legs day and all of the reps are set up as 12 x 10 x 8 x 6. If his goal with weightlifting is just to get us in shape it seems a little silly; circuit training, mat work and sprints would do that. Also the split seems a little off. Only one day devoted to lower body, and it has to share it with shoulders? I'm considering just going in the gym and doing my own powerlifting routine, then doing the circuit and wrestling/mat work. What do you think?

drew
10-03-2005, 07:54 PM
The circuit and conditioning work is designed to get you strong and somewhat explosive (Box jumps, OH jerk press) and it looks like he's just trying to build mass with the weight routine, although I don't know why you'd want mass if you're wrestling. It seems more like he's just doing something that he's always done rather than really get you prepared.

Basically, he's a wrestling coach, so he knows wrestling. But he probably doesn't know a lot about strength and conditioning. I'm sure there are guys on the team that don't know how to squat or bench properly, and he probably won't teach them to.

The best thing for you to do is educate yourself. Ask questions to your coach (what is our goal here, etc) without getting him on the defensive. Make it clear that you're looking to get the most out of your workouts and you want to learn as much as possible about what you're doing and why it should work.

jazer80
10-03-2005, 08:19 PM
It seems more like he's just doing something that he's always done rather than really get you prepared.

Basically, he's a wrestling coach, so he knows wrestling. But he probably doesn't know a lot about strength and conditioning. I'm sure there are guys on the team that don't know how to squat or bench properly, and he probably won't teach them to.
agreed. i've wrestled under 3 different high school coaches, and only one knew a good deal of stuff when it came to strength training. i wish i knew what i know now about training when i was in high school...

Meat_Head
10-04-2005, 09:43 AM
The biggest favor you could do yourself as a wrestler is getting a heavy ass sandbag and lifting it as much as possible, if you do that you will own your opponents as far as strength goes.

jazer80
10-04-2005, 11:08 AM
The biggest favor you could do yourself as a wrestler is getting a heavy ass sandbag and lifting it as much as possible, if you do that you will own your opponents as far as strength goes.
i've been doing sandbag training lately, and i constantly think of how nice it would have been to have done this while i still wrestled

MixmasterNash
10-04-2005, 11:46 AM
Anyways, is my coaches goal with the weightlifting to put on mass or strength, or just get us moving around?

No, it is not intended to add mass. Adding mass will be hard with all of the conditioning work. The program is clearly intended for conditioning, as it probably should be, besides learning technique, of course. The lifting will preserve muscle mass to a point.

Hazerboy
10-04-2005, 03:52 PM
Interesting.

As you said it will be hard to ask my coach about weightlifting without getting him on the defensive; he's the weightlifting teacher, assistant football coach, and an overall huge guy. I'm just a junior in high school. :) Anyways I'll probably just kind of do my own powerlifting routine and maybe some of the accesory stuff he suggests.

What's this about sandbag training? It may be a little late to start something brand new with only a month to go but info on this would be good for next year.

Also I'll probably wrestle at 160 poundst his year. currently i weight 168 after practice and around 171 or 172 before practice. I'm also taking creatine, so when should I stop taking creatine? Right now? A week or so before my first weigh in? What kind of adverse effects will I notice after I stop taking it, will I feel tired and weak? How much water weight can I expect to loose when I stop taking it?

Any other advice I should take into consideration for pre-season or wrestling in general would be helpful, i.e. what to eat before a meet, weight cutting techniques, etc.

Meat_Head
10-05-2005, 09:43 PM
Interesting.

As you said it will be hard to ask my coach about weightlifting without getting him on the defensive; he's the weightlifting teacher, assistant football coach, and an overall huge guy. I'm just a junior in high school. :) Anyways I'll probably just kind of do my own powerlifting routine and maybe some of the accesory stuff he suggests.

What's this about sandbag training? It may be a little late to start something brand new with only a month to go but info on this would be good for next year.

Also I'll probably wrestle at 160 poundst his year. currently i weight 168 after practice and around 171 or 172 before practice. I'm also taking creatine, so when should I stop taking creatine? Right now? A week or so before my first weigh in? What kind of adverse effects will I notice after I stop taking it, will I feel tired and weak? How much water weight can I expect to loose when I stop taking it?

Any other advice I should take into consideration for pre-season or wrestling in general would be helpful, i.e. what to eat before a meet, weight cutting techniques, etc.

If you did alot of sandbag training in that month you would certainly gain some benefits, mainly that your core and grip strength would shoot up. But it does take time to really get strong with em like anything. Buy the book 'Dinosaur Training' by Brooks Kubik, it'll tell you all you need to know about sandbag training and pretty more, very motivational to.

jazer80
10-07-2005, 04:07 PM
No, it is not intended to add mass. Adding mass will be hard with all of the conditioning work. The program is clearly intended for conditioning, as it probably should be, besides learning technique, of course. The lifting will preserve muscle mass to a point.
i know of this phenomenon, but can't say i understand its mechanics or degree of significance. i train a combo of pl/hypertrophy, but also do maybe two days weekly of endurance-type stuff (boxing, car push, etc)... is that hampering growth?

PowerManDL
10-07-2005, 06:26 PM
Not if you're eating enough.

Maki Riddington
10-07-2005, 06:32 PM
That routines sucks.

jammerz4life
10-09-2005, 04:47 PM
about this post if you can help him you acn help me. i play water polo and its basically wrestling in the water so if you have any good strenght workouts for him please post.

jazer80
10-09-2005, 05:23 PM
Not if you're eating enough.
that's what i figured, just checking

debussy
10-09-2005, 09:44 PM
There's more to recovery than just eating. He also needs to get enough sleep... but I'm getting old.... high school kids got more energy.

jazer80
10-10-2005, 04:49 PM
There's more to recovery than just eating. He also needs to get enough sleep... but I'm getting old.... high school kids got more energy.
of course... but it seems like there's a sentiment that conditioning/cardio stuff actually stunts muscular growth through other mechanisms besides just giving you a larger total workload

Tony H
10-11-2005, 04:39 PM
It looks like a good routine for wrestling. Your goal here is to preserve muscle while maintaining a lower weight than your body wants. The cardio is necessary because without it you will get your ass handed to you on the mat.

your cardio has to consist of a variety of different exercises using different muscles because that is what a wrestling match is like. Running alone will not get you in shape for it.

And stop taking the creatine right now. Even the best stuff out there will make you hold a little extra water, which means more weight. You don't want that now. Creatine is for off-season only.

jazer80
10-11-2005, 07:59 PM
It looks like a good routine for wrestling. Your goal here is to preserve muscle while maintaining a lower weight than your body wants. The cardio is necessary because without it you will get your ass handed to you on the mat.

your cardio has to consist of a variety of different exercises using different muscles because that is what a wrestling match is like. Running alone will not get you in shape for it.

And stop taking the creatine right now. Even the best stuff out there will make you hold a little extra water, which means more weight. You don't want that now. Creatine is for off-season only.
how much water do you think a kid his size will retain? he weighs 170, and it's my understanding that you may gain a few pounds. i could be wrong on that, so someone please jump in if i am. so 3 pounds is only adding 1.8% weight to his body, but i bet the creatine is adding more htan 1.8% strength to him.

then again, some people don't see much with creatine, but i'd have to imagine that he would be more than 1.8% stronger with it, so if i'm looking at this the right way, he would be stronger relative to his weight w/ creatine than w/o

Hazerboy
10-12-2005, 09:18 PM
It's already set that I'm going to wrestle at 160; talked to the coach about it beforehand, thats where he wants me at as it is best for the team.

Anyways, how much strength will I actually loose if I stop taking creatine? Will I notice the difference during practice, weightlifting, etc?

Also my first weigh in isn't untill... early or mid november I think. So I'm thinking it will be benenficial to keep taking it during preseason conditioning/weightlifting, and maybe stop a week or so before my first weigh in.

I stoped taking it during the summer for an OSU camp and I think it took a week or maybe less for me to lose that extra water weight.

PowerManDL
10-12-2005, 10:53 PM
of course... but it seems like there's a sentiment that conditioning/cardio stuff actually stunts muscular growth through other mechanisms besides just giving you a larger total workload

This is only the case for excessive aerobic endurance work.

I'm not convinced the same holds true for anaerobic work. In fact, I'm about positive it's the exact opposite.

Sisay
02-02-2006, 08:54 PM
I've gone through two years of wrestling, so I know a thing or two.

Alright, the reason no one works on legs in wrestling is that you don't need strong legs. At all. You need endurance-built legs, nothing else. You need a massive upper-body, focus on that.

Cut out creatine. NOW. You don't want the water-weight ever. Get rid of it.

Eating is very important at tournaments and meets. Cut weight like crazy(I'll give techniques later) before any meet if you know you're overweight. If you're underweight, don't eat anything. Once you've weighed in, eat a sandwich. Almost everybody on my team has a Subway sub after weigh-ins. Get Gatorade. At tournaments, bring a cooler of food. Most tournaments are all-day things. Don't eat breakfast, because that goes into your weigh-in weight. Eat after weigh-wins, a sandwich or something. After your first match, just another big snack and some liquid. I prefer eating Skittles right before a match (I mean, like three minutes before) to have the sugar-rush during a match.

Cutting-weight: Never cut weight the day of the weigh-ins. Better to be fat and have energy than tired and under-weight. Our team-captain and 2nd best wrestler on our team didn't win state because they had to keep cutting weight and didn't have energy for matches.

Bottle Technique: Get an empty bottle, if possible. If not, get a water bottle and dump the water out. Spit into the bottle like crazy until weigh-ins. This cuts two or three pounds. And after weigh-ins, just drink a gatorade bottle or drink from a water-fountain to replenish your saliva.

Trashbag Technique: Strip your top half to a workout shirt. Get a trash-bag. But it on over your head, make holes for your arms and head. Put a shirt on over the trash-bag. Put a hoodie on over this. Keep the hood up. This traps heat and keeps your body hot and makes you sweat faster.

Instead of your usual running speed, try keeping up with one of the fastest runners on the team. It will kill you, but you'll sweat.

Tell coach if you're over-weight so that he can have a lose-weight day of practice.

Most important hint for you: Get angry before a match. About anything, but get angry. You'll be in a rage. This takes a few minutes, but I've only lost two matches when I do this. And one, the ref was being biased.

Yeah, never expect the ref to be fair. They never call your pin, but call the other guy's as quickly as possible.

Bohizzle
02-02-2006, 09:03 PM
Most important hint for you: Get angry before a match. About anything, but get angry. You'll be in a rage. This takes a few minutes, but I've only lost two matches when I do this. And one, the ref was being biased.

Yeah, never expect the ref to be fair. They never call your pin, but call the other guy's as quickly as possible.

Most important hint for you: read the dates of threads :clap:

nejar462
02-03-2006, 08:56 AM
"Get angry before a match. About anything, but get angry. You'll be in a rage. This takes a few minutes, but I've only lost two matches when I do this."

I've wrestled with state champions, and I don't know anyone who does this. The only guys I know that do this are guys that quite frankly aren't too good. Wrestling is a chess match, outthink your opponent if you want to get to the next level. And thinking is hard when you're getting really pissed.

Sisay is correct on many points though. Master the art of cutting water weight, and you'll gain a massive advantage. Rich Franklin, UFC fighter cuts 25 lbs for his fight, its not same day weigh ins like for scholastic wrestling, but still you can get a decent amount of water weight. The best technique to cut weight is really hard live wrestling IMHO. I also find really hard live wrestling to be the best way to condition, and for young wrestlers the best way to strengthen as well. Lots of balls to the wall drillings and live wrestling should be pretty much all you do the first 2-3 years of wrestling (assuming you wrestle all year round, if you're winter seasonal then the first 10 years.)

Remember, its all about using superior techniques and tactics. Always THINK before you wrestle and act. I guarantee this cerebral approach will be good for you in the long run.

Natetaco
02-04-2006, 09:00 PM
It's already set that I'm going to wrestle at 160; talked to the coach about it beforehand, thats where he wants me at as it is best for the team.

Anyways, how much strength will I actually loose if I stop taking creatine? Will I notice the difference during practice, weightlifting, etc?

Also my first weigh in isn't untill... early or mid november I think. So I'm thinking it will be benenficial to keep taking it during preseason conditioning/weightlifting, and maybe stop a week or so before my first weigh in.

I stoped taking it during the summer for an OSU camp and I think it took a week or maybe less for me to lose that extra water weight.


your not going to loose strength and if you do you probably wont notice. dont worry about strength in wrestling just try to condition yourself as good as you can. i thought strength was a huge factor in wrestling but the best people on my team arnt even strong they are just conditioned so well and have great endurace, that will win you the match. this is my second year wrestling. creatine will make it harder for you to stay at your weight class and isnt good for endurance, stop taking it you will be fine.

Hazerboy
02-10-2006, 10:07 PM
[QUOTE=Sisay]I've gone through two years of wrestling, so I know a thing or two.

Alright, the reason no one works on legs in wrestling is that you don't need strong legs. At all. You need endurance-built legs, nothing else. You need a massive upper-body, focus on that.

QUOTE]

Well, technically the season is over now, but still -

Woah! You don't need strong legs? are you kidding me? Having a strong allaround body is imperative! How much is a strong upper body gonna help you with a standup? How about taking shots? Finishing shots? How much upper body strength is used when slamming an opponent during a double leg? Thats all lower body hips/legs!

What about getting away on bottom?You cannot simply do a pushup and get away on bottom... you gotta have strong legs and hips to build your base and standup!


I

Meat_Head
02-11-2006, 11:55 AM
I've gone through two years of wrestling, so I know a thing or two.

Alright, the reason no one works on legs in wrestling is that you don't need strong legs. At all. You need endurance-built legs, nothing else. You need a massive upper-body, focus on that.


LMAO!

:newbie:

Natetaco
02-11-2006, 04:18 PM
I've gone through two years of wrestling, so I know a thing or two.

Alright, the reason no one works on legs in wrestling is that you don't need strong legs. At all. You need endurance-built legs, nothing else. You need a massive upper-body, focus on that.

Cut out creatine. NOW. You don't want the water-weight ever. Get rid of it.

Eating is very important at tournaments and meets. Cut weight like crazy(I'll give techniques later) before any meet if you know you're overweight. If you're underweight, don't eat anything. Once you've weighed in, eat a sandwich. Almost everybody on my team has a Subway sub after weigh-ins. Get Gatorade. At tournaments, bring a cooler of food. Most tournaments are all-day things. Don't eat breakfast, because that goes into your weigh-in weight. Eat after weigh-wins, a sandwich or something. After your first match, just another big snack and some liquid. I prefer eating Skittles right before a match (I mean, like three minutes before) to have the sugar-rush during a match.

Cutting-weight: Never cut weight the day of the weigh-ins. Better to be fat and have energy than tired and under-weight. Our team-captain and 2nd best wrestler on our team didn't win state because they had to keep cutting weight and didn't have energy for matches.

Bottle Technique: Get an empty bottle, if possible. If not, get a water bottle and dump the water out. Spit into the bottle like crazy until weigh-ins. This cuts two or three pounds. And after weigh-ins, just drink a gatorade bottle or drink from a water-fountain to replenish your saliva.

Trashbag Technique: Strip your top half to a workout shirt. Get a trash-bag. But it on over your head, make holes for your arms and head. Put a shirt on over the trash-bag. Put a hoodie on over this. Keep the hood up. This traps heat and keeps your body hot and makes you sweat faster.

Instead of your usual running speed, try keeping up with one of the fastest runners on the team. It will kill you, but you'll sweat.

Tell coach if you're over-weight so that he can have a lose-weight day of practice.

Most important hint for you: Get angry before a match. About anything, but get angry. You'll be in a rage. This takes a few minutes, but I've only lost two matches when I do this. And one, the ref was being biased.

Yeah, never expect the ref to be fair. They never call your pin, but call the other guy's as quickly as possible.


wow you know nothing about wrestling. a massive upper body?? you need speed. a massive upper body will only slow you down. focus on endurance and your tecnique most of all. those will get you the wins. hips are your most important bodypart in wrestling