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dissipate
10-15-2005, 08:46 AM
early this month, i decided to try out a high-carb low-fat bulking diet, and switched from my isocaloric bulking diet. i started off at 56.5kg, about 18.4%BF (so the callipers say). 42 days later, i'm at 57.5kg and about 19.82%.

i've already been having a hard time putting on weight (am currently eating 2900 cals on lifting days) and now calculations say i put on about 1kg of fat.

:eek: :mad:

WHAT THE.

this is my first time bulking and i need urgent advice on what to do. i have 3 more weeks of bulking to go before i start cutting and i'm wondering whether i should switch to high-fat low-carbs instead.

HILL
10-15-2005, 10:00 AM
i think low fat is a bad idea any way as good fats help with alot of things including testosterone boost. and if you putting on to much fat and not muscle then to me that means ure eating to much

Owen
10-15-2005, 11:24 AM
Hey, maybe your not eating enough? There is a article here by Chris Mason about putting on 15 pounds in one month that suggests eating 25 calories per pound of body weight, you should check it out, its very good and got alot of feed back. I think Hatred is going to follow it for a month.

Here is a link to another article which I enjoyed about bulking, it has some really good tips, among them is a suggestion eat more saturated fats.

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do;jsessionid=D8B8A20C36A5624460CDFE8E21549A07.hydra?id=781428

John Berardi also has a program called 'Massive Eating Reloaded' which is very interesting. There is an article about it on this page.

http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/nutrition/index.htm

Spartan936
10-15-2005, 12:55 PM
Are callipers really that accurate? Maybe the measurements off?

I don't have the experience to make a suggestion, but at any rate I think many of the more experienced people here will recommend using more fats and protein for extra calories. lol, just the other day I was breezing through an Arnold book, and he layed out what he thought the most important food groups were. In order he listed: 1.dairy products, 2. meat, 3. fruits and veggies, 4. fats and oils, 5. grains and sweets. I was suprised to read this from Arnold.

:) You'll get there dissipate!

*waits for Built to post*

HILL
10-15-2005, 01:18 PM
by that it means u havnt put on hardly any muscle which i could only see happening if you were not training or like i said to many cals

spencerjrus
10-15-2005, 01:49 PM
early this month, i decided to try out a high-carb low-fat bulking diet, and switched from my isocaloric bulking diet. i started off at 56.5kg, about 18.4%BF (so the callipers say). 42 days later, i'm at 57.5kg and about 19.82%.

i've already been having a hard time putting on weight (am currently eating 2900 cals on lifting days) and now calculations say i put on about 1kg of fat.

:eek: :mad:

WHAT THE.

this is my first time bulking and i need urgent advice on what to do. i have 3 more weeks of bulking to go before i start cutting and i'm wondering whether i should switch to high-fat low-carbs instead.


You switched to a high carb diet and you are wondering why you put on fat?


Is this not kind of obvious?

ReelBigFish
10-15-2005, 03:17 PM
You switched to a high carb diet and you are wondering why you put on fat?


Is this not kind of obvious?

could you explain this one to me? Carbs don't make you gain fat, excess cals. do. Yeah when you go from low to high carbs, you're going to gain water weight and possibly look a little bloated, but you can't pin point that for the reason of gaining fat.

dissipate
10-15-2005, 09:44 PM
thanks for the replies guys.

low fat means 20% total calories and not like 10g or something. and taking in only a small amount of fat while having lots of carbs makes sense to me while bulking.

hill, if i'm gaining a whole lot of fat and very little muscle, i'm eating too much - yes i agree with that. the problem is if you read my post clearly, i'm having problems gaining weight even. i've taken 42 days to gain about 2.2lb. and i HAVE been training every week.

owen, thanks for your kind intentions. i've read the links before :) the problem would be i'm not eating enough, with regards to v. slow weight gain, but it doesn't explain why the slow weight gain was mostly fat.

spencerjrus, i'm not wondering why i put on fat on a high carb diet. i'm wondering why most of the weight gain was partitioned to FAT and not LBM.

reelbigfish, i like the way you think ^_^

spart, oh dear maybe so... i can think of a reason i'd be retaining water in the morning. yep i was thinking of more fats and protein for extra cals too. i haven't felt lethargic or horrible from the high carbs, but i guess it might not be the one that works for me. am waiting for someone like built to give advice too.

MrClean
10-15-2005, 09:58 PM
My 2 cents:

1) Doing the math it looks like you weigh around 126 correct? If this is the case then yes you are putting roughly enough calories down but you said on workout days... this should be EVERYDAY. You are definitely in your window with calories but include fats... they are a must. Give us some details of what you are eating... how much protein?
2) How tall are you? I would not consider cutting if you don't have a foundation to start with
3) What is your workout?

TheGimp
10-15-2005, 09:59 PM
I would blame inaccuracies in the calliper measurements. How are things looking visually?

dissipate
10-15-2005, 10:11 PM
ah gimpy! glad you're here :) my stomach looks a little flabby. the areas that i think have grown 'fatter' are my stomach/hips, chest and butt. my arms are a little less defined, but my triceps are defined enough to look nice to me in the mirror. legs look the same.

mrclean, yes 126. why should the high cals be everyday and not just workout days? i've been trying to do a slow bulk and thought the more than extra cals on non-lifting days would probably increase fat gain.

1) well here's my breakdown:
2900 lifting days
protein 188.5g, carbs 391.5g, fats 64.4g

2600 non-lifting days
protein 188.5g, carbs 331.5g, fats 57.8g

2) i'm 164m.. 5'4 i think?

3) my workout's a 5x5 and i'm doing the last few weeks of the intensity phase.

TTT
10-15-2005, 10:28 PM
I would say it'd most likely be increased water weight, combined with inaccuracies in the calipers.
Eat more fat :D You need it.

ReelBigFish
10-15-2005, 11:35 PM
You prolly just gained a lot of water weight, and unfortunately it went to your gut, lowerback, thighs (happens to me as well). You may have put on more fat than you wanted if your fat had been too low. When your body doesn't get enough fat, it's more likely to store fat, because it doesn't think it's going to get more. Fat is used for fuel when the body is starved, and it helps insulate your body, along w/ good skin, joint lubrication. The body is very efficent and will do what it needs to maintain homeostasis.

Built
10-15-2005, 11:55 PM
I'm not sure of the exact mechanism there, but I agree with ReelBig that your fats being too low can certainly be a problem. I seem to do better using fat as a caloric ballast rather than carbs. As an added perk, higher fats are better for your endocrine system anyway - good for test production. Make sure you get in some healthy, naturally saturated fats (egg yolks, meat, butter...).

Manveet
10-16-2005, 12:08 AM
Could really be just water, considering the fact that you are eating a "high carb" diet.

MrClean
10-16-2005, 12:21 AM
ok i am just over 5'5 165 pounds and far from fat... so i have a hard time thinking that at 5'4 126 pounds you are getting fat. Quit worrying and get some GOOD food in your system (and a lot of it including good fats)... don't worry with the water weight... and hit those squats and deadlifts hard!

dissipate
10-16-2005, 02:47 AM
reel, built, do you think i should increase my fats then? they're currently 20% total cals. what about this thread? http://wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=68719


Fat is more easily stored as fat, as ryuage said, esp. in a calorie surplus, because carbs/ proteins have to be broken down in order to be turned into fat and then rereleased into the blood stream to be stored in your adipose tissue, where as fat doesn't.

water weight - perhaps, seeing how it's near TOM for me. but how do you guys gauge whether your high carb bulk was effective? and whether you might've done better on high fat instead?

and yeah mrclean.. i guess i gotta add 100 cals to the diet again :/ 2900/2600cals are already a torture......

Built
10-16-2005, 03:12 AM
Don't go by an percentage - it's meaningless.

Go by a lean body mass-dependent dosing: 0.5g/lb LBM (or higher) for fats, 1.0g/lb (or higher) LBM for protein, carbs can be whatever, but you might find it works better to target them around your lifts and use fat and protein for the rest of your calories.

dissipate
10-16-2005, 03:21 AM
yup i know that percentage is useless. the amount of fat i'm currently taking in is higher than 0.5g/lb LBM and i'm just using LMcD's recommended 20-25% fats when doing a high carb bulk.

Built
10-16-2005, 03:28 AM
I'm not a high-carb bulk kinda gal - I just get too hungry and therefore, too fat. LOL!

Carbs DO make you bloat. Makes it hard to see if it's fat, water, muscle...

dissipate
10-16-2005, 03:38 AM
I'm not a high-carb bulk kinda gal - I just get too hungry and therefore, too fat. LOL!

Carbs DO make you bloat. Makes it hard to see if it's fat, water, muscle...
hahaha!!

yeah, especially for females :/

am waiting for your bulking journal :)

spencerjrus
10-16-2005, 12:26 PM
hahaha!!

yeah, especially for females :/

am waiting for your bulking journal :)


Day 1: I am soooooooooooo fat.


;)

Built
10-16-2005, 12:28 PM
Go to hell.

<pouts and cries>

Shao-LiN
10-16-2005, 03:11 PM
Low fat bulk. I just can't get past that part.

smalls
10-16-2005, 09:48 PM
I bulk "low fat" compared to most. You have to realize that the higher your fat intake goes DOES NOT correlate to a higher than normal test level. Which is one reason people advocate high fat bulks. So whatever fills your caloric intake needs better while still getting "enough" of each macronutrient, and you will be fine.

dissipate
10-16-2005, 10:13 PM
Low fat bulk. I just can't get past that part.
??? why not?



Day 1: I am soooooooooooo fat.
rofl. how about this

Day 1849: No changes yet.

Built
10-17-2005, 12:02 AM
I bulk "low fat" compared to most. You have to realize that the higher your fat intake goes DOES NOT correlate to a higher than normal test level. Which is one reason people advocate high fat bulks. So whatever fills your caloric intake needs better while still getting "enough" of each macronutrient, and you will be fine.
Yep.

If by increasing your fats, you go from INSUFFICIENT to SUFFICIENT, then yes, your test will increase. Going over won't though, as far as I know.

<eyes butter dish and natty PB jar longingly...>

Dammit.