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LogicalG
10-19-2005, 08:52 PM
According to some Basal Calorie calculators I need to have 2700 calories a day. I am going to drop this to around 2100. My diet is as follows:

Meal 1:
4 Egg Whites
1 Egg Yolk
167 Cal / 7 fat / 1 carb / 7 pro

Meal 2:
Isopure (Alpine Punch)
160 Cal / 0 fat / 0 carb /40 pro

Meal 3:
Chicken Sandwich (Whole Wheat Bread)
380 Cal / 5 fat / 59 carb / 26 pro
Should I stay away from the bread here?

Meal 4:
Clif Bar
250 Cal / 6 fat / 40 carb / 12 pro

Meal 5:
Milk with Whey Protien
480 Cal / 4 fat / 44 carb / 67 pro
Bananna
93 Cal / 0 fat / 24 carb / 1 pro

Meal 6:
Milk with Whey Protien
480 Cal / 4 fat / 44 carb / 67 pro


Here are the fitday totals:
Total: 2010
Fat: 27 242 12%
Sat: 9 85 4%
Poly: 1 13 1%
Mono: 3 27 1%
Carbs: 213 808 41%
Fiber: 11 0 0%
Protein: 234 935 47%
Alcohol: 0 0 0%

How does this look?

Nongan
10-19-2005, 08:58 PM
To me, it seems your not getting enough healthy fats in there. But I'm not the most knowlegable, but try adding some peanut butter or olive oil in there to get some healthy fats.

Unreal
10-19-2005, 09:11 PM
Way more fat, less liquid. More real food, more veggies. Bread is fine if it fits in your daily caloric total while maintaining enough fat and protein. Ditch the clif bar. Its just a candy bar.

ReelBigFish
10-19-2005, 10:39 PM
First off, don't take the word of an online calculator for your calorie needs. Everyone is different. You need to monitor your cals for 2 weeks. Weight yourself and the beginning of the 2 weeks and at the end. If you've gained weight then you're eating too much/lost weight , eating too litte; stayed the same then that's your daily calorie needs. Secondly, don't start out w/ a 600 cal. a day cut. from your maintnance. start at 200 to 400 and then monitor your weight loss and if you don't lose then decrease another 200 or so. Don't drop too much at once or you'll metabolism will slow down way too far and fat loss will stop and you could end up losing muscle.

Built
10-19-2005, 10:48 PM
Make sure you get in at least 0.5g fat per pound LBM for testosterone and other endocrine support.

I don't know what your LBM is, but if it's 160 lbs, that means get in no less than 80g fat daily, and no less than 160g protein daily.

Ditch the clif bar. It's basically a crappy tasting candy bar.

You need more real food, and you REALLY need more fiber - at least 25g a day.

On a cut, avocados and green veggies (broccoli, green beans, romaine, spinach, cabbage...) are your friends (avocados have healthy fat and a lot of fiber).

Those calculator thingies are kinda lame. Do you have any idea if 2700 is representative of your actual maintenance calories?

tigo
10-21-2005, 03:19 AM
fat
get more
fat
i eat more fat than youdo in a day in a meal
and IM on a cut

mrwalken
10-21-2005, 07:18 AM
Ditch the clif bar. It's basically a crappy tasting candy bar.

You need more real food, and you REALLY need more fiber - at least 25g a day.




The clif bar is providing half of his daily fiber. Don't hate!

Built
10-21-2005, 10:44 AM
Oh boy - half of the 11 GRAMS. :rolleyes: ;)

I still say ditch the clif bar.

Woodward
10-22-2005, 05:48 PM
Refer to Built's avatar alone.. I think I would take the advice.

D Breyer
10-22-2005, 06:46 PM
:withstupi

Built
10-22-2005, 06:50 PM
Hehehehehe...

;)

Thanks guys.

Logical, are you getting it worked out?

crazyaoshi
10-24-2005, 09:34 AM
Is it possible some people have lower ideal fat levels in their diet than others? For example, after consistently reading "you need more fat you need more fat" in this forum, I raised my fat intake [still a bit less than 0.5g/pound of LBM] and lowered my carb intake. My total calories were effectively the same. However, in the past month since doing so I gained about 1.5kg of fat and lost 2kg of muscle and quite a bit of strength. Anyway here are some other factors though I'll consider before I go back to avoiding fat.

1. The gym changed their software in the machine that measures bodyfat. They said just about everyone else was seeing fat increases and muscle loss similar to mine. However I can see my abs a bit more clearly, so it may just be a difference in software.
2. I had a stomach problem for about a week and couldn't exercise or eat anything but simple carbs such as udon noodles, as per doctor's orders. But this was for 1 week and I had 4 weeks to recover since then. But to lose 2 months of progress in one week?
3. I changed my lifting style a bit from higher weights and not full range of motion to lower weight and complete range of motion [this was to compensate for the strength loss because of the stomach problems. Since doing so I am gradually raising the weight but retaining full range of motion.
4. The fat I've been eating came almost exclusively from nuts and tofu. I don't know if that fat is especially hard to shed but it shouldn't be.
5. I switched cardio methods from 30 minutes 6 times a week on the cross trainer to 30 minutes 4 or 5 times a week on the stationary bike.

Now I'm eating a lot less nuts and maybe half an avocado and an egg per day and calling it good for fat. When I eat beef, I eat flank steak and I boil it to get all the excess fat out. Sure it doesn't taste so good but if it's for my health...

Sorry if this feels like a thread hijack but I've been meaning to ask.

Built
10-24-2005, 01:26 PM
If you gained weight, you consumed more than you expended.

You may not need as much fat as I do per pound LBM, but simply eating a greater proportion of your calories from fat won't make you gain weight unless your calories go up because of it.

mrwalken
10-24-2005, 01:58 PM
Refer to Built's avatar alone.. I think I would take the advice.

She actually got that way eating 6 clif bars a day. She just doesn't want the rest of us to know and catch up.

Built
10-24-2005, 02:11 PM
*snort!*

crazyaoshi
10-24-2005, 05:07 PM
So I just have one more quick question. Overall I lost weight, but I gained 1kg of fat and lost 2kg of LBM. Does it mean I simply didn't eat enough protein? The way I understood it, if you expend more than you eat, you lose weight [I assume from fat because most of my exercise was weight training and never too much cardio] and if you eat more than you expend you gain weight [again I assume you gain LBM because of my diet and routine]. I'm confused how someone who exercised as much as I did and had a healthy diet [99% of the food coming from the what a bodybuilder eats thread except for the 5 days of doctor advised carbs] could gain fat and lose LBM if the cause was simply not enough protein...unless it was overtaining...?

Typical routines:
Sunday 30min cardio before work [after work the gym is closed so maybe a walk in the evening]
Monday off [gym is closed]
Tuesday 2 hours weights, 30 min cardio
Wednesday 90 minutes weights
Thursday 2 hours weights, 30 min cardio
Friday 2 hours weights, 30 min cardio
Saturday 2 hours weights, 30 min cardio

Built
10-24-2005, 05:54 PM
Sunday 30min cardio before work [after work the gym is closed so maybe a walk in the evening]
Monday off [gym is closed]
Tuesday 2 hours weights, 30 min cardio
Wednesday 90 minutes weights
Thursday 2 hours weights, 30 min cardio
Friday 2 hours weights, 30 min cardio
Saturday 2 hours weights, 30 min cardio

I'm going with overtraining.

2 hours of lifting is too much. Tacking 30 minutes of cardio at the end made it worse. The whole workout shouldn't take much more than an hour. You MUST have gone catabolic. I know I would if I overtrained as much as you did. Your workouts were more than twice as long as they should have been.

crazyaoshi
10-24-2005, 06:19 PM
OK thanks for all your advice. As long as I'm talking to you, I have one more question. I'm worried if I cut my workouts back to around an hour and continue to eat what I eat I'll gain even more fat. I am male, 26, 81kg [68kg LBM] and typically eat 2200 on non-lifting days and 2400cal on lifting days, mostly from protein and fat. It doesn't seem like too much. Maybe tonight I'll post another fitday report. I would like it though if I should workout less. More free time. Eating more would be nice too, I often feel a bit hungry.

Overtaining raises the chance of gaining fat?

I also use the PWO shake advice I read here on a cut. 2.5g each of protein and gatorade powder per lb/LBM mixed with water, half right away and drinking the other half gradually over 45 minutes. I like that.

Built
10-24-2005, 06:29 PM
Do yourself a favour and tighten up your diet if you want to control your weight. Consider exercise for body composition, not bodyweight.

You are probably eating a little too much food. Are you tracking on fitday?

crazyaoshi
10-25-2005, 06:39 AM
I know the body responds better to gradual change, so I cut back my exercise from 2.5 hours to under 2 hours today and I indeed feel less tired. Tomorrow I'll cut it down to 90 minutes or so. However despite the shorter workout time even eating the same calories I felt hungry. I don't care about gaining weight so much, I care about gaining too much fat. I know to gain muscle you almost have to gain fat. The head trainer reassured me that the everyone was getting results like mine because of the software change. I don't feel fatter so I only know what the machine tells me.

Maybe I should just go on a bulk. I want a six pack and not a 2-pack like I have now, but I also feel I've cut as much as I can.

OK, here's the fitday:
http://www.fitday.com/WebFit/PublicJournals.html?Owner=hokkemirin

This plus 100g protein powder [total about 350 cal] divided among 3 seperate times during the day, 1/4 cup bran [there isn't an entry with similar nutritional info in fitday], 2 small 0-calorie vitamin drinks [1 first thing in te morning and one after the evening workout] and a myoplex carb sense bar [250 cal 28g/protein, 5g fat 26g/carbs]. I know you don't like them but I love the tase and I can eat it quickly as I walk to the gym. I go to the gym after work and it's usually 3-4 hours since lunch.

All drinks throughout the day are 0 calorie. Mostly water, sometimes I have this drink called "diet amino calpis". I'm a bit suspicious of it because it has 0 calories but has aminos...but I like the taste and it's 0 calorie so I drink it as a placebo and for its water if nothing else.

I don't know why it thinks my basal/lifestyle calories are so high. According to the gym, my maintenance is 1900 if I sleep all day, 2800 or so for regular activity. Checking my spreadsheet of recent calories, I avg about 2350/day.

Anthony
10-25-2005, 06:52 AM
1. The gym changed their software in the machine that measures bodyfat. They said just about everyone else was seeing fat increases and muscle loss similar to mine. However I can see my abs a bit more clearly, so it may just be a difference in software.

Ding ding ding. Here's your answer.

First, it sounds like your gym is using bioelectrical impedance to measure your body fat. Unfortunately, these devices are horrible. Hydration, skin temperature, and recent physical activity affect the measurement. And even if you follow the steps exactly, they have been shown to be inaccurate up to 8%. Ouch.

Use digital calipers or hydrostatic weighing for a more accurate number.

Canadian Crippler
10-25-2005, 07:09 AM
Tiny is correct. Doesn't matter even if the measurements are incorrect, as long as they are consistant.

crazyaoshi
10-25-2005, 07:28 AM
Thanks everyone for all your help and advice. I plan on coming home to America next month [for 1 week], maybe I'll get some calipers there. I've been to some huge stores here and never seen them.

Oh by the way, Anthony, if I ask for a sample of your nitrean to be sent to my parents and I try it and like it and order some from you the day I arrive, can you get it to arrive in Oregon within a week of my order? Everyone says how good nitrean is but of course I can't find it in Tokyo and it's much cheaper than anything I can find here.

Anthony
10-25-2005, 07:32 AM
You'll have to speak to Chris Mason or Daniel Clough - they are the owners of Atlarge Nutrition. My guess is that Chris will be more than happy to help you out. But don't quote me on that. ;)

LogicalG
11-09-2005, 12:43 PM
Alright, So I am back after tracking my eating habits for two weeks, I do eat on average 2800 calories a day. So I am going to cut down to 2500 for a month, while I am doing my lifting, and see how much weight I lose, If I need to come down some more I will. Here is the new diet as based on your advise, to increase good fat, and add more fiber, and of course, ditch the cliff bar. What do you guys think now?

1 - 3 Hard Boiled Eggs
Egg, whole, cooked, hard-boiled 233 16 2 19

2 - Isopure Drink 160 0 0 40


3 - Tuna Sando Whole weat bread
Tuna, canned, water pack 194 1 0 43
Mayonnaise, regular 99 11 0 0
Bread, whole wheat, 100% 138 2 26 5

4 - Peanuts (1/2 Cup) 416 36 12 19

5 - Whey Protien and Milk 120 2 4 20
Milk, nonfat, fluid 120 0 18 14

6 - Chicken Breast (Medium) 327 8 1 58
Avocado, raw 279 27 13 3
Whey Protien and Milk 120 2 4 20
Milk, nonfat, fluid 120 0 18 14

7 - Bran Buds (All Bran) 210 3 72 6


Total 2534 109 169 261



Total: 2534
Fat: 109 977 40%
Sat: 21 193 8%
Poly: 27 242 10%
Mono: 46 418 17%
Carbs: 169 442 18%
Fiber: 58 0 0%
Protein: 261 1043 42%
Alcohol: 0 0 0%

mrwalken
11-09-2005, 01:09 PM
Fiber: 58 0 0%


I find this number highly dubious

LogicalG
11-09-2005, 02:26 PM
Well according to the previous posts it is more than 25g. Should I be getting more? If so, about how much?

LogicalG
11-10-2005, 04:59 PM
Bump

Alright, So I am back after tracking my eating habits for two weeks, I do eat on average 2800 calories a day. So I am going to cut down to 2500 for a month, while I am doing my lifting, and see how much weight I lose, If I need to come down some more I will. Here is the new diet as based on your advise, to increase good fat, and add more fiber, and of course, ditch the cliff bar. What do you guys think now?

1 - 3 Hard Boiled Eggs
Egg, whole, cooked, hard-boiled 233 16 2 19

2 - Isopure Drink 160 0 0 40


3 - Tuna Sando Whole weat bread
Tuna, canned, water pack 194 1 0 43
Mayonnaise, regular 99 11 0 0
Bread, whole wheat, 100% 138 2 26 5

4 - Peanuts (1/2 Cup) 416 36 12 19

5 - Whey Protien and Milk 120 2 4 20
Milk, nonfat, fluid 120 0 18 14

6 - Chicken Breast (Medium) 327 8 1 58
Avocado, raw 279 27 13 3
Whey Protien and Milk 120 2 4 20
Milk, nonfat, fluid 120 0 18 14

7 - Bran Buds (All Bran) 210 3 72 6


Total 2534 109 169 261



Total: 2534
Fat: 109 977 40%
Sat: 21 193 8%
Poly: 27 242 10%
Mono: 46 418 17%
Carbs: 169 442 18%
Fiber: 58 0 0%
Protein: 261 1043 42%
Alcohol: 0 0 0%

Built
11-10-2005, 05:15 PM
Eat the bran buds in the AM
Peanuts are not a meal. Add in some CC or something in there.
What time do you lift?

LogicalG
11-11-2005, 01:39 AM
CC?

I lift 4 days a week, usually in the evening around 6pm. In between Meal 5 and 6.

Built
11-11-2005, 03:43 AM
Okay, cool. Same time as me.

You need carb and protein for meal 6. Meal 7 can go back to protein and fat if you like.

CC = cottage cheese.

Beast
11-11-2005, 07:05 AM
Use digital calipers or hydrostatic weighing for a more accurate number.
DEXA, baby! DEXA!

galileo
11-11-2005, 08:20 AM
And even if you follow the steps exactly, they have been shown to be inaccurate up to 8%. Ouch.


I believe Chase mentioned to me once that his friend was in contest shape (4%, if I recall) and the bioimpedance gave him a reading in the 20's.

Holto
11-11-2005, 08:43 AM
I believe Chase mentioned to me once that his friend was in contest shape (4%, if I recall) and the bioimpedance gave him a reading in the 20's.

I'll never forget this one. Great example.