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View Full Version : Is there a way to combine both the Olympic and Power lifts into one routine?



fixationdarknes
10-24-2005, 09:23 PM
I was previously mostly interested in Squat, Bench, and Deadlift. But after reading articles about how olympic lifts are really good for explosive strength, I became interested in that too. And then I saw that Pyrros Dimas video, and I really want to get strong like that.

So, my question is: what are the main lifts that olympic lifters train with, and the main lifts that powerlifters train with, and how do you combine the two?

I'm thinking that one could really only train with one of them, but I want to do both. Hm...any ideas?

Sensei
10-24-2005, 09:54 PM
There is crossover, and you can do both. Don't get pulled in too many directions though - there are so many fun avenues of competition that you can just end up being pretty damn weak at everything... There are templates out there (WS hybrids, etc.) that incorporate OLs into PL routines. That might be the way to go.

The Weightlifting Encyclopedia by Arthur Dreschler is a great book for OL, but it might be a little more than you need.

Check some online sources for help on learning the OLs. There are some decent forums as well that have more OLers on them - you could definately seek advice there too. I haven't been to them in a while, but Old School Strength Training, Fortified Iron, and Power & Bulk are a few that come to mind. Some of them are not the most newbie-friendly, so lurk a while before posting questions Here is a big, big list of forums for you, if you are interested: http://johnnymnemonic.proboards44.com/index.cgi?board=variouslinks&action=display&thread=1117846683

fixationdarknes
10-24-2005, 10:21 PM
Dang, I don't know which to pursue. lol. You're right, there are a lot of fun avenues of training.

But for some reason, Olympic lifting seems to be more about real-world explosive strength than Powerlifting? I dunno, I may be wrong.

dw06wu
10-25-2005, 01:05 PM
if you browse power and bulk, definitely lurk hardcore for at least 1-2 months or they will eat you alive

MixmasterNash
10-25-2005, 01:39 PM
Also, there is a significant difference between training for powerlifting or olympic lifting and using the power and olympic lifts for training.

Meat_Head
10-25-2005, 04:27 PM
For beginning and intermediate lifters, cleans are an excellent substitute for deadlifts. If you can clean 300lbs +, your going to have an extremely strong back and posterior chain. Same if you can deadlift 500lbs +.

fixationdarknes
10-25-2005, 04:48 PM
dw06wu- Huh? Wait, who's eating me alive? :scratch:

Mix- Oh, yes, I should've clarified, I'm not training to be an Olympic or Power Lifter, but just want to use the Olympic and Power Lifts in my training routine to develop explosiveness, speed, and strength. How should I go about doing this?

Meat Head- Yeah I've heard that Cleans are awesome. I wanna do them. :D

bIgHwN86
10-25-2005, 06:51 PM
fix, the article in my sig is a good place to start...i made real good gains on it, and plus once you get the load/set parameters geared to where you want them for your goals, you'll blow up.

fixationdarknes
10-25-2005, 09:34 PM
Also, one thing I've noticed is that Oly lifters don't always just train with a certain lift for some sets for reps.

For example, there is something called "The Drill" with the Snatch. It's where you do: "One Power Snatch followed by one Overhead Squat…then, lower the bar to below the knees for one Hang Squat Snatch…then, lower the bar to where it just skims for the floor for one Full Squat Snatch."

And I know there is something similar with Cleans. For example: Power Clean the bar. Then do a front squat. Then jerk the bar once or twice. Drop bar to hang position. Lower bar and do a full clean and jerk.

Something like that. So, do Oly lifters train with weird little sets/drills like those or do they just do 5-10 normal sets of low rep (1-2 reps) work?

Meat_Head
10-26-2005, 12:57 AM
Also, one thing I've noticed is that Oly lifters don't always just train with a certain lift for some sets for reps.

For example, there is something called "The Drill" with the Snatch. It's where you do: "One Power Snatch followed by one Overhead Squat…then, lower the bar to below the knees for one Hang Squat Snatch…then, lower the bar to where it just skims for the floor for one Full Squat Snatch."

And I know there is something similar with Cleans. For example: Power Clean the bar. Then do a front squat. Then jerk the bar once or twice. Drop bar to hang position. Lower bar and do a full clean and jerk.

Something like that. So, do Oly lifters train with weird little sets/drills like those or do they just do 5-10 normal sets of low rep (1-2 reps) work?

One could talk for days about the various methods used in different countries - search around for that info, its easy to find.

fixationdarknes
10-26-2005, 09:21 AM
I have found various info, but I don't know which is best to do, so that's why I'm asking.

drew
10-26-2005, 09:43 AM
Fix, you really need to set some solid goals for yourself, then get focused on what it is you're going to do about it. You're always too concerned with doing everything, you lose focus that way. My best advice to you is to take a step back, and get focused on one method of strength development at a time. If it doesn't work (after 4-6 months) then try something new.

catinga
10-26-2005, 10:01 AM
hi, to the thread starter
i am currently doing a mix of powerlifting and olympic lifting, basically i just want to get strong and explosive
im doing deadlifts, bench press, cleans, clean and jerks, clean to front squats
and also some variations of deadlifts. i have a new thread in this forum if u want to see my routine
im still working on it and adding other exercises to it, i thought maybe it would interest u as i am only doing powerlifting and olympic lifts

fixationdarknes
10-26-2005, 06:39 PM
Thanks I'll take a look at it. But after thinking qabout it for a while, I'm actually more in the situation of learning how to snatch and clean properly before forming a routine around it. Heh. I'll come back when I learn a few more things.

catinga
10-27-2005, 03:26 AM
snatch and clean are the best exercises for explosive strength in my opinion as far as exercises with any sort of weight. (in my opinion)

jack_of_all
10-28-2005, 04:02 PM
i am currently training for pl'ing but i incoprorate power cleans and since seeing that video you mentioned im thinking about trying to bring in some snatches.

i lift on the second story of a house so it might be dangerous to do full up snatches (for the floor if i miss the lift off the back) i think i could probably do hang snatches in my power rack. sound like a good idea?

khari
10-28-2005, 07:28 PM
i am currently training for pl'ing but i incoprorate power cleans and since seeing that video you mentioned im thinking about trying to bring in some snatches.

i lift on the second story of a house so it might be dangerous to do full up snatches (for the floor if i miss the lift off the back) i think i could probably do hang snatches in my power rack. sound like a good idea?

I'd say stick with the power snatch if you've never done either and don't have a coach. Also, I don't think it's very likely you miss a lift off the back. Usually it'll be because you didn't pull it high enough, but as long as you don't max out the worst that should happen is you press it up at the top. Not the end of the world while training, but it'll get you the red flag in competition.

MixmasterNash
11-02-2005, 11:20 AM
From a t-nation thread:


I used to teach a top down approach (that is I taught overhead squats, muscle snatches, power snatch and hang snatch in that order before doing full snatches.

Over the past year howver I have ebeen experimenting with using primarily jump shrugs, and pull variations INSTEAD of the full lifts.

The technical problems in my opinion all come with the catch phase. But the benefits for athletes all come from the pull. I saw some research from Eric Burkhardt showing that the landing forces (the thing that everyone points out as the reason for doing the full lift) are actually less in an Olympic lift than in an unloaded vertical jump.

So I began experimenting with having some athletes only perform the jump shrug or pull portion (the rest of their programs are similar). So far I think they get all the benefits of the lift, are competent quicker and are handling decent loads a lot faster.

AC
www.alwyncosgrove.com

Meat_Head
11-02-2005, 02:20 PM
AC is such a badass, I just wished he looked like he practices what he preaches...

So is there really no point in 'catching' the bar, aside from competitive olympic lifting form?

WillKuenzel
11-02-2005, 02:27 PM
AC is such a badass, I just wished he looked like he practices what he preaches...

So is there really no point in 'catching' the bar, aside from competitive olympic lifting form?

AC is a cancer survivor. You won't see many of them that still look that good. One of those cases where you shouldn't judge a book by its cover. IMO, his accomplishments far outweigh his current looks.

From what, I've read and seen, catching the bar isn't essential if you are just doing the lift for the explosiveness. One of the few drawbacks being that if you do release the weight, you'll need bumper plates and lifting platform to keep from damaging the floor. If you don't release the weight and try to hang on, you run the risk of injuring your shoulders as the weight jerks you back down.

Meat_Head
11-02-2005, 02:38 PM
AC is a cancer survivor. You won't see many of them that still look that good. One of those cases where you shouldn't judge a book by its cover. IMO, his accomplishments far outweigh his current looks.

From what, I've read and seen, catching the bar isn't essential if you are just doing the lift for the explosiveness. One of the few drawbacks being that if you do release the weight, you'll need bumper plates and lifting platform to keep from damaging the floor. If you don't release the weight and try to hang on, you run the risk of injuring your shoulders as the weight jerks you back down.

I had no idea he was a cancer survivor, but regardless I have tons of respect for him. He's a genius as far as training methodology goes.

WillKuenzel
11-02-2005, 02:55 PM
He doesn't mention it on his website but he mentions it briefly in an article I've read. Stage IV cancer survivor, I think. Just thought, I'd toss that out there.

Again, back the question about racking the weight. The pull portion of the lift is the most important for crossover strength. The rack is actually just pulling yourself under the bar and then front squatting, or OH squatting when doing the snatch.

MixmasterNash
11-02-2005, 03:17 PM
I had no idea he was a cancer survivor, but regardless I have tons of respect for him. He's a genius as far as training methodology goes.

Um, there's that whole international martial arts champion thing too. He doesn't train for looks, but performance, and he has personally demonstrated elite levels of fitness.

Nongan
11-02-2005, 04:29 PM
to help you out, I'm currently doing a routine at school that combines some power/olympic lifts. We do squats, bench, deadlift, cleans, and then split press (basically, the second part of the clean and jerk, take the weight from your chest and press it up with a drop step), and then once every four weeks, substitute in clean & jerks for cleans and split press.

Meat_Head
11-02-2005, 07:25 PM
Um, there's that whole international martial arts champion thing too. He doesn't train for looks, but performance, and he has personally demonstrated elite levels of fitness.

I DID know about that. Still, hypertrophy(at least a little) wouldn't hurt performance, it'd probably help. More and more martial arts competitors(including champions) are coming in more ripped and hypertrophied every year.

CosmicForce
05-07-2006, 07:10 PM
I want to mix PL and OL. My goals are to develope power, strength, and mass. These are the exercises I would like to do.
1 min b/t sets
Full Squat 5x5
Deadlift 5x5
Flat Bench 5x5
Neck Harness 5x5
Clean and Jerk 5x5
Snatch 5x5
Decline Crunch 2x25x25lb

Any feedback?

betastas
05-09-2006, 10:43 AM
If you can pull that off every workout, I applaud you. I wouldn't be able to do all that effectively in one workout.

JaCelica2k
05-09-2006, 11:32 AM
If you can pull that off every workout, I applaud you. I wouldn't be able to do all that effectively in one workout.

:werd: not with any kind of valid performance at least.

CDONDICI
05-09-2006, 08:29 PM
I want to mix PL and OL. My goals are to develope power, strength, and mass. These are the exercises I would like to do.
1 min b/t sets
Full Squat 5x5
Deadlift 5x5
Flat Bench 5x5
Neck Harness 5x5
Clean and Jerk 5x5
Snatch 5x5
Decline Crunch 2x25x25lb

Any feedback?

I would definatley throw up after that... 1 min between sets, Jesus!

Isaac Wilkins
05-10-2006, 04:40 AM
I want to mix PL and OL. My goals are to develope power, strength, and mass. These are the exercises I would like to do.
1 min b/t sets
Full Squat 5x5
Deadlift 5x5
Flat Bench 5x5
Neck Harness 5x5
Clean and Jerk 5x5
Snatch 5x5
Decline Crunch 2x25x25lb

Any feedback?


I would split this up a bit. In order to finish this workout your weights will have to be very light. I also would do the Olympic lifts first. They require better technique and concentration. You'll be fatigued as hell after the squats, deads, and bench presses. This will cut your power down a lot.

I also probably wouldn't go quite that heavy on the Neck Harness. That's an injury waiting to happen.

CosmicForce
05-13-2006, 11:22 AM
I would split this up a bit. In order to finish this workout your weights will have to be very light. I also would do the Olympic lifts first. They require better technique and concentration. You'll be fatigued as hell after the squats, deads, and bench presses. This will cut your power down a lot.

I also probably wouldn't go quite that heavy on the Neck Harness. That's an injury waiting to happen.

I will modify this routine for now. I realized this is to much.
M/W/F
Morning
2 min b/t sets
Full Squat 5x5
Deadlift or BB Row 5x5
Flat Bench 5x5
Push Press 5x5

Evening
Neck Harness 5x5
Decline Crunch 2x25x25

I have a skinny ass neck and I feel comfortable using 35lb on the harness. From my understaning Bill Starr's original 5x5 program called for substituting Deadlifts and BB Rows for Power Cleans or High Pulls if a person wanted to incorporate OL, so I will stick to this routine for now. After the Big 3 I have plenty of energy/power for the Push Press.