Not gaining...or growing

[Drew84]

I assume this is in the correct section, but anyway...

I've been lifting on a regular basis for nearly two years now. The first couple months were spent doing the typical bench-and-curl-three-times-a-week rookie routines. I then did some research and got a good routine together and stuck with it on a consistent basis, but rarely gained, never grew. I spent the entire summer this year lifting with a buddy that is an experienced lifter, and the intensity of my workouts increased greatly. During that time I made about a 20lb gain on my bench, but other than that, rarely gained, never grew. Once school started back up I had to go back to lifting in my basement again, but I've worked hard to keep the intensity. But, again, haven't gained, haven't grown.

On the majority of the different lifts I do/have done, I am still within 5-10lbs of where I started two years ago. In not one area of my body can you tell I have ever lifted a solitary weight in my life. I'm 6'0 170...bench 155, dead 240, and can squat 240 once before my bad left knee gives out and I crash to the floor.

My diet, while not the ideal all-protein diet that it should be, doesn't include burgers, pizza, fried foods, or other assorted junk. I get enough meals/snacks that it's rare I feel hungry, and I drink a ridiculous amount of water. Although I don't do any cardio, I cannot gain weight AT ALL. I've tried many times, but no matter how much I eat, I'm back at the same 170lbs (or less) the next morning.

Without flaming me for being a weak "newbie".....what in the world am I doing wrong?

[Built]

You are not eating enough.

No matter how much you are eating now, if you're not growing, it's your diet. You aren't getting in enough calories.

PITA though it is, track on www.fitday.com

Increase cals, see what happens.

K?

[HILL]

Yup this was my mistake for the first 2 years of my taining i didnt track cals

[SpecialK]

Yup this was my mistake for the first 2 years of my taining i didnt track cals

:withstupi

[Pats Fan]

If you're lifting heavy and hard w/ mainly compound exercises, you should be hungry as a horse. The window starting from approx one hr pre-workout, extending to at least 2-3 hrs post workout is when you should be eating like a madman - I get at least 50-60% of my daily cals during this time frame.

Also, if you go to the powerlifting forum, there is a thread that has Mark Rippetoe's name in the thread. He suggested to a young lifter to perform the following three days per week:


day 1 workout

squats 3x5
bench 3x5
deads (alt w/ power cleans 5x3)

day 2 -

squats
mil press
chins
dips

3x5, or something like this


day 3 - same as day 1

add 10 lbs to leg exercises each week, and 5 lbs to upper body

this may be too low in volume, but start here, you can always up it to 5x5

[BG5150]

And you don't want an "all protein diet". Read the "What a bodybuilder eats" sticky. It's in one of the top posts in the nutrition forum.

[Drew84]

Not sure how I can put down any more food than I already do, but I'll kick the eating up a notch and see where it goes.

Due to time contraints with college courses, my routine now consists of single muscle group workouts twice a week. Also, due to the aforementioned bad knee, I am not doing any leg workouts at this time, aside from deads and calf raises. I can't do squats with a lot of poundage without it giving out in pain...ditto for lunges. SLDL's do nothing for me, and leg curls on the bench are worthless. My current routine:

day 1: chest - flat bench, incline dumbbell
day 2: off
day 3: biceps/triceps - barbell curl, concentration curl, close grip bench (currently trying w/ DB's), french press
day 4: shoulders - arnold press, behind neck military, bent-over side raises
day 5: off
day 6: back: deads, bent over rows
day 7: off

I also try to work in calf raises twice a week

[Unreal]

Not eating enough. Not working the largest muscle group in your body enough. Eat more and squat heavy. Add 1tbps of olive oil to anything you can. That will be an easy 400-600 calories a day. Nuts, peanut butter and other calorie dense foods are cheap, easy.

Start squatting low weight. It will strengthen your bad knee/back/whatever. It will take awhile, but will be worth it. There is no excuse besides maybe losing your legs in nam to not squat.

[Y0yo]

What's your current diet look like?

[deeder]

SLDL's do nothing for me, and leg curls on the bench are worthless.

What? Not doing enough weight on either then?

[[[[----]]]]

Man, I gotta start counting cals :hide:

[Kiaran]

Yup this was my mistake for the first 2 years of my taining i didnt track cals

:withstupi

[puny_ectomorph]

I, too, have a lot of trouble eating enough to gain. I found something in the writings of John McCallum (from the old Keys to Progress series) that helped out a lot, however. Now, I'm sure I'm going to get flamed for this...a lot of stuff here is considered horrible for you...but it helped to pack 20 pounds on me in two months along with 20-rep squats. Here it is (regards to Mr. McCallum):

Take a day's load of protein powder, and mix it with 2 cups of powdered milk and 2 quarts of regular milk (I use whole milk, might depend on the person). Blend it all up.

Add 4 tablespoons of malted milk powder. (Hard to find...only seen it in one grocery store)
6 tablespoons of corn syrup (NOT oil! I made this mistake the first time I tried this and almost gagged)
4 heaping tablespoons of peanut butter
2 large scoops of ice cream (I use chocolate)
1 banana
2 eggs
heck, whatever else you feel like throwing in

It takes me two blender loads to make this thing. Afterwards, you have about a gallon's worth of it. Pour it all into a jug and stick it in the fridge.

This drink (called the "Get Big Drink" by McCallum) makes about 10 glasses. Finish off the whole thing during the day, then do it all over again. I haven't calculated the numbers myself, but according to McCallum this sucker packs 3,000 calories and 200 or so grams of protein. Make sure you still eat big, even when drinking this stuff. BTW, it's not the greatest tasting in the world, but it's not horrible.

I know some of you are reading this and thinking, "this guy is nuts!"...but it worked for me, and I was a proverbial 98-pound weakling.

Flame away...(ducks the incoming)

-puny-

[RickTheDestroyer]

Drew84- start squatting like you mean it, and consume 2 gallons of milk and a jar of natty pb every 2-3 days.
You'll be fine.

puny_ectomorph, the death shake sounds fine except for the corn syrup, IMSHO. I'd use oats instead, and possibly some malto or dextrose if you want to carb it up more.

[Pats Fan]

Drew - first of all, deads (assuming you mean conventional deads) are more of a leg exercise - although yes, they certainly hit the entire poster chain (all the way up to your traps/rhomboids) alot as well.

Second, if SLDLs (I prefer RDLs) aren't cutting it for you, you are either doing them wrong or not using enough weight. Third, ditto the other guys - you need to squat. If you are feeling pain, you may be doing them wrong - get your form down w/ some help, and see a doc if pain continues.

Also, no wonder you can't eat - you have an entire day devoted to arms, and one devoted to shoulders - those are very small muscles and don't deserve their own days. You are putting more effort into those than your legs.

[RickTheDestroyer]

Also, I would probably recommend doing those squats as olympic-style ATF squats, and that you go ahead and follow puny's advice and do them 20-rep style, considering the knee thing. My knees suck, and I find that I'm much more comfortable pounding my legs with relatively light ATF squats than with heavier, wider squats.

[puny_ectomorph]

Thanks for the input, DenimDemon. I'll try throwing those extra ingredients in for a change.

-puny-

[Sensei]

Start working out with someone serious about training and getting big. Start eating more. Start keeping a log. Start a membership at a gym where there a many strong lifters.

[HILL]

Another thing i find usefull is righting down what i did during the workout so i can keep track of progress then put it in my journal

[Drew84]

I realize now that I left out an important bit of information. Right now, I have no access to a squat rack, leg press, or anything. I was able to use my buddys' Smith Machine when I had more free time this past summer, but I'm now stuck with just the bench in my basement. I've tried cleaning into a front squat, but even at a low weight it killed my wrists. Also tried hack squats but couldn't manage them with the amount of weight I really needed. I've even tried doing them without a rack, but like the hack squats, couldn't get anywhere near enough weight over my head onto my shoulders. I'm looking to buy a Smith or a squat rack soon, but for the time being I don't know what to do. I never felt that a lighter weight and 20-30 reps would get me anywhere, but if you all think it will, I'm willing to try anything.

[f=ma]

Drew84- start squatting like you mean it, and consume 2 gallons of milk and a jar of natty pb every 2-3 days.
You'll be fine.

puny_ectomorph, the death shake sounds fine except for the corn syrup, IMSHO. I'd use oats instead, and possibly some malto or dextrose if you want to carb it up more.
more like 1 jar of natty pb & 1 gallon of milk per day in one sitting

[[[[----]]]]

Yeah, I think this is most people's mistake when first starting to lift

[mrelwooddowd]

http://www.wannabebig.com/article.php?articleid=177

http://www.wannabebig.com/article.php?articleid=179


These should shed some light on it..

[Davidelmo]

Same.. I found I just wasnt progressing.

As soon as I used fitday and realised I wasnt eating enough it changed.

Fitday is great as you know you HAVE to eat to get enough calories, whereas if you didnt track your diet you might just go to bed without eating because you didnt feel hungry.

[smalls]

You are not eating enough.

No matter how much you are eating now, if you're not growing, it's your diet. You aren't getting in enough calories.

PITA though it is, track on www.fitday.com

Increase cals, see what happens.

K?


The cure to your problem is in this post. Dont TRY to eat more, either eat more or never make any progress.

[Drew84]

I haven't done the math in those articles yet, but I'm going to shart shoveling more food down on workout days. Started out right today with an 830 calorie Big Bacon and side salad from Wendys prior to my workout, and some peanut butter afterwards. :)

Now it seems the general concensus is that my routine is garbage, so could someone suggest or point me to one that, well...isn't garbage. Although I completely agree that I need to hit the legs hard and often, my upper body needs a little more attention. For my build, I have fairly large and somewhat strong legs, and nothing to speak of up top whatsoever...which looks rather odd as you can imagine.

[Nongan]

look in the routines section. start out with wbb routine #1, and then if that gets old after 4+months, switch to one of the other wbb routines.

[Drew84]

I've done the first 2 workout days on WBB routine #1 and it seems like a complete waste of time. Even taking a couple minutes between sets, I'm finished with the entire thing within 30 minutes at most and don't even feel worn down.

[RickTheDestroyer]

Maybe you need to put more effort into those sets then. My current workouts last about 45 minutes and consist of around 16 sets, and I'm generally dragging myself out of the gym when I'm done. However, if you're accustomed to doing really high volume and taking each set way beyond failure and staying in the gym too long, then you might feel a little underworked. It's taken me a couple years to learn that I don't have to be dead and over-exhaust every little muscle in order to grow- in fact I grow much better without it.

Anyway, many MANY people have had great success with WBB1. If you're eating enough, and lifting like you mean it, then you'll grow. Period.

[Unreal]

Then you aren't lifting heavy enough. If you can squat or dead heavy and not feel worn afterwards, then your not doing it heavy enough. Its a GREAT routine, but you have to follow it.

[puny_ectomorph]

On top of that, your workout shouldn't last more than 30-45 minutes anyway. Don't be fooled by these bodybuilding rags and "professional" advice...2-hour long marathon workouts get you nothing but overtrained. Hormone release only occurs within the first 30-45 minutes anyway, and is only released by the big, heavy exercises (squats, deads, maybe bench).

-puny-

[gator]

Yea the long workouts suck, I tried doing that a summer ago because I thought that would get me stronger quicker. However your muscles just get so tired out that you dont gain anything, in fact when I took a 2 week break for vactaion and hit the gym again I was actually stronger because my muscles finally had a chance to rest.

[puny_ectomorph]

Yea the long workouts suck, I tried doing that a summer ago because I thought that would get me stronger quicker. However your muscles just get so tired out that you dont gain anything, in fact when I took a 2 week break for vactaion and hit the gym again I was actually stronger because my muscles finally had a chance to rest.

When I first started out, I tried one of Schwarzenegger's six-days-a-week, two-hour long workout routines. I managed to keep up with it for three weeks before I woke up one morning and realized I couldn't get myself out of bed. I had lost seven pounds.

At the time, I didn't realize that those BB guys I worshipped were on enough chemical support to kill a horse. Learned my lesson, though.

-puny-

[Drew84]

Then you aren't lifting heavy enough. If you can squat or dead heavy and not feel worn afterwards, then your not doing it heavy enough. Its a GREAT routine, but you have to follow it.

I throw on enough weight to lift to failure within 7-8 reps. I did, however, back off on the weight tonight on my deads to allow for a little better form, and went until form failure (6 reps each time).

[Davidelmo]

I throw on enough weight to lift to failure within 7-8 reps. I did, however, back off on the weight tonight on my deads to allow for a little better form, and went until form failure (6 reps each time).

Well then it should be fine... It may not work for everyone but you should at least wait more than 2 days to decide.