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muscleup
12-04-2005, 08:47 AM
Is there any Juice out there that isn't full of fructose and corn syrup?

I'm trying to think of a juice that I can mix with my protein and oats. I used to use Cran/Raspberry, but that friken juice is loaded with fructose and corn syrup.

I tried protein oats and milk, but that makes me gag cause it tastes like chunky milk. I can do chunky juice, but chunky milk is teh sick.

Paul Stagg
12-04-2005, 08:55 AM
I'm sure you can get something other than one of the juice cocktails.

Holto
12-04-2005, 09:27 AM
There is absolutely nothing wrong with naturally occuring fructose.

JustinASU
12-04-2005, 09:42 AM
:withstupi I drink natural OJ every morning. Unless you're on a cut of some sort I wouldn't worry.

muscleup
12-04-2005, 09:51 AM
What's cutting? :D j/k

So is there anything on the label I should stay away from when I pick a juice?

Shao-LiN
12-04-2005, 10:57 AM
The glue maybe...gets all sticky.

Bohizzle
12-04-2005, 11:14 AM
just try and stick to real fruit juice, if u can't it's not that big of a deal.

Andrew

Anthony
12-04-2005, 11:30 AM
100% fruit juice is fine.

A tip for your protein/oats/milk shake: dry blend the oats into a powder.

Joe Usher
12-04-2005, 12:08 PM
I have no idea where you live or what grocery store chains are in your neighborhood but in Maryland we have Safeway, Giant, to name a few. I have found Safeway's juice to contain no added sugar; Apple, Cranberry, & Grape.

muscleup
12-04-2005, 12:28 PM
100% fruit juice is fine.

A tip for your protein/oats/milk shake: dry blend the oats into a powder.
Yea, I've done that a few times, but the powdered oats get all stuck in the bottom of my blender, and i'm a lazy sob when it comes to washing that damn thing out 2 times a day. Disasembleing that thing burns too many calories :D

Blender instructions label all liquids should be added first, and any powders last.
Although I could grind the oats, dump them out, add the milk then pour them back in, but again..that sounds like a lot of calories to burn. :D :D

You say 100% fruit juice is OK, so that is enough for me.
Anferny = l33t sm@rt

muscleup
12-04-2005, 12:30 PM
The glue maybe...gets all sticky.
such a :clown:

Anthony
12-04-2005, 12:32 PM
What I do is blend 1kg of oats and store them in plastic containers. When it's time for a shake, I just throw 500ml of milk, 1-2 scoops of Nitrean, and 1-2 scoops of oats into a shaker. Mixes perfectly with a few shakes.

muscleup
12-04-2005, 12:47 PM
What I do is blend 1kg of oats and store them in plastic containers. When it's time for a shake, I just throw 500ml of milk, 1-2 scoops of Nitrean, and 1-2 scoops of oats into a shaker. Mixes perfectly with a few shakes.

Ahhh, MASS oat blendage. Now that would have some major potential. Just need to figure out how to calculate ground oats into per cup.
Thanks Anthony.

Anthony
12-04-2005, 12:55 PM
I'm one step ahead of you. ;) A typical protein scoop (63cc) holds ~46g of oats. That works out to 5.76g protein, 27.43g carbs, and 2.88g fat for a grand total of 158.68 calories.

Optimum08
12-04-2005, 01:07 PM
hmm...i might have to start adding oats to my protein shake in the morn...anthony so would the shake u described above (2 scoops Nitrean, 2 scoops ground oats, and some milk) be a nice way to start off the morning? cuz i have a lot of trouble eating food at 7:30 in the morning before school...

Anthony
12-04-2005, 01:12 PM
Yeah, I sometimes have a poor appetite in the morning and shakes make it a lot easier. This shake (500ml 2% milk + 2 scoops nitrean + 2 scoops oats) works out to around 800 calories.

Optimum08
12-04-2005, 01:14 PM
and do u dry grind the oats in the blender or food processor? (to the post starter...sorry for the semi-thread jack)

gator
12-04-2005, 01:48 PM
I good tip I learned from my dad in regards to cleaning blenders. Most of us are lazy and cleaning the blades can suck. After you make your shake, throw 4+ ice cubes into the empty dirty blender and blend the ice cubes up. This cleans off the blades and then you just have to wash out the blender.

Anthony
12-04-2005, 02:04 PM
and do u dry grind the oats in the blender or food processor? (to the post starter...sorry for the semi-thread jack)

I use a blender, but I'm sure a food processor would work fine.

tigo
12-04-2005, 02:36 PM
the only time drink juice is when i throw an fruit into a food processor and chug it down, pulp and all

Spartacus
12-04-2005, 03:23 PM
if you want cranberry taste with less sugar you can buy 100% cranberry juice (i get it at trader joe's) and you only need a little bit of that

Shao-LiN
12-04-2005, 04:04 PM
I good tip I learned from my dad in regards to cleaning blenders. Most of us are lazy and cleaning the blades can suck. After you make your shake, throw 4+ ice cubes into the empty dirty blender and blend the ice cubes up. This cleans off the blades and then you just have to wash out the blender.

Or you can soak it in soap and actually clean it.

Built
12-04-2005, 04:27 PM
If you're on a bulk, and you can afford the calories, drink anything you want.

If you're cutting, you might find fruit juice to be too high a concentration of calories to be worth it.

Not ALL the sugar in juice is fructose. But it's still sugar, it's still calories.

My feeling is that if you want to eat fruit, eat it - most folks don't sit down and eat 8 oranges all at once. But if you gain fat easily, anything that's a high source of fructose, like juice, might not be such a grand idea - it's just too darned easy to get in a whole pile all at once.

My .02

muscleup
12-04-2005, 06:39 PM
Thanks for all of the replies. I found some cranberry/raspberry that says 100%juice. No sugar added.
The only time I will be drinking it is pre and post wo. Make about 16oz total, 8 before and 8 directly after.
Will be about 10oz juice, 24g protein, 1cup oats, and some dextrose if I buy some.

sickman99
12-04-2005, 06:50 PM
is tropicana any good(100 percent pure squeezed orange juice) or is it bunch of bull

getfit
12-04-2005, 07:32 PM
is tropicana any good(100 percent pure squeezed orange juice) or is it bunch of bull
i'm sure they add more stuff in there then just freshly squeezed orange juice

Spartacus
12-04-2005, 10:06 PM
Thanks for all of the replies. I found some cranberry/raspberry that says 100%juice. No sugar added.
The only time I will be drinking it is pre and post wo. Make about 16oz total, 8 before and 8 directly after.
Will be about 10oz juice, 24g protein, 1cup oats, and some dextrose if I buy some.


100% juice isn't the same as 100% cranberry juice.

Built
12-05-2005, 01:00 AM
Juice is basically sugar water. Drink it if you like the taste, but if you're looking for something for post workout, stick to dextrose.

Spartacus
12-05-2005, 02:35 AM
sugar water sounds like just the ticket for post-workout.

muscleup
12-05-2005, 07:21 AM
sugar water sounds like just the ticket for post-workout.
Does Trader Joes sell dextrose?
I might run over there and check out their juices this week.

Built: Wouldn't the juice aid in the insilin spike that we should be getting post w/o?
The cals don't bother me, i'm bulking. I gained the best weight when I was using oats daily, but I don't like oatmeal, and I prefer mixing dry oats in juice with protein, strawberries and a banana. Would I even need dex if I used a combo like that?
Wouldn't the juice, strawberries, banana and oats spike my insilin enough?

BigOldDad
12-05-2005, 07:27 AM
I like tomato juice. Is this included in the sugary juice catagory?

jamrock
12-06-2005, 09:29 AM
If it says 100% Juice it also probably says "from concentrate" somewhere.

I drink juices all the time, but I am in Miami and have a couple of mom and pop juice stands "El Palacio De Los Jugos" or "The Palace of Juices". They make natural fruit cocktails (all fresh), they make natural juice blends, they even take 100% organic plain yogurt and mix it with fresh fruits and add fruit juice to sweeten. It may be high in sugar but it's natural and fruits have lots of antioxidants and vitamins that also aid in being all around healthy.

I may be a weirdo but drinking juice has never thrown me out of ketosis, then again I don't drink boxed/canned/bottled juices.

Also look into the SmoothieKing company, they are a franchise that makes...smoothies! They have all sorts, low fat fruit, protein/workout, specialty etc.. You can add all sorts of **** like Turbinado to sweeten, raw caffeine for energy, protein powders (cassiene, whey, egg), and plenty of other things. The beauty is they provide the nutritional content + the ingredients so its not so difficult to get great ideas and change things up.

muscleup
12-06-2005, 09:41 AM
Also look into the SmoothieKing company, they are a franchise that makes...smoothies! They have all sorts, low fat fruit, protein/workout, specialty etc.. You can add all sorts of **** like Turbinado to sweeten, raw caffeine for energy, protein powders (cassiene, whey, egg), and plenty of other things. The beauty is they provide the nutritional content + the ingredients so its not so difficult to get great ideas and change things up.
LOL Smoothieking is teh shizzle.
32oz HULK smoothie is like 1500 cals. And the web site gives nutritional break downs. I have them in my Custom Foods list on fitday. Although I am not 100% sure, but I thought that they used Jucie from concentrate.

I don't really even know what "from concentrate" means.
google to the rescue:
"Fruit juice from concentrate is juice, which has
been concentrated and returned to its original
state by the addition of water. It must taste and
have analytical characteristics at least
equivalent to those of an average type of juice
obtained from fruits of the same kind."

Yea, whatever that means...

djreef
12-06-2005, 10:38 AM
You also have to take into account the glycemic properties. Juices, like blueberry (or any berry for that matter) juice is considerably lower in simpler sugars than say orange juice, or grape juice. Having said that, they also are less sweet tasting. In fact blueberry juice isn't very sweet at all, but damn is it good for you.

DJ

Built
12-06-2005, 11:21 AM
Does Trader Joes sell dextrose?
I might run over there and check out their juices this week.

Built: Wouldn't the juice aid in the insilin spike that we should be getting post w/o?
The cals don't bother me, i'm bulking. I gained the best weight when I was using oats daily, but I don't like oatmeal, and I prefer mixing dry oats in juice with protein, strawberries and a banana. Would I even need dex if I used a combo like that?
Wouldn't the juice, strawberries, banana and oats spike my insilin enough?
Not enough of a spike. First off, the fiber slows it down. Second, fructose is low GI, and preferentially taken up by liver glycogen, not muscle glycogen, although as I understand it, post workout, that's not the main thing you're looking at - what you want is a strong insulin response to offset muscle catabolism. Fruit/fruit juice won't accomplish this nearly as well as dextrose and whey in water.

intargc
12-06-2005, 12:50 PM
Hello people! Juicy Juice is the shizzle! This juice is the long lost and forgotten juice of the 80's!

http://www.juicyjuice.com/products/nutrition.aspx

Vapour Trails
12-07-2005, 12:05 PM
Juice is the silent killer, beware!

Honestly, this site makes me laugh sometimes.

Wild Cat McCane
12-07-2005, 08:52 PM
no sugar added....

hahahaha

makes me think of my ON Serious Mass bag of weight gainer. says no sugar added but it seems like the only thing in it is dex and malto :)

intargc
12-07-2005, 09:06 PM
no sugar added....

hahahaha

makes me think of my ON Serious Mass bag of weight gainer. says no sugar added but it seems like the only thing in it is dex and malto :)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't dex and malto good carbs? I thought dex was even a natural glucose... I'm probably wrong, but I thought that I just recently read that.

shansen008
12-08-2005, 12:36 PM
Ive never understood the "blend your oats" crowd.

By turning them into a powder your eliminating whats good about them. They are supposed to be a slow digesting source of complex carbs. By blending them you are effectively raising the surface area that is being acted on by your stomach acids and speeding digestion. I imagine this changes their position on the GI rather quickly.....but i could be wrong.

Ill continue to eat mine the old fashioned way.

Built
12-08-2005, 01:18 PM
Ive never understood the "blend your oats" crowd.

By turning them into a powder your eliminating whats good about them. They are supposed to be a slow digesting source of complex carbs. By blending them you are effectively raising the surface area that is being acted on by your stomach acids and speeding digestion. I imagine this changes their position on the GI rather quickly.....but i could be wrong.

Ill continue to eat mine the old fashioned way.

You're right, of course - powdering the oats allows it to digest more quickly than dextrose - but not AS quickly. So you get a slower trickle of carb - probably a good idea if you need to eat/drink something about a half hour before you train so you're not empty, but need it to be easy to consume as you're running out the door.

Regarding the earlier question, on dextrose - yes, dextrose is glucose - dextrorotatory glucose. (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/dextrose)

intargc
12-08-2005, 01:21 PM
You're right, of course - powdering the oats allows it to digest more quickly than dextrose - but not AS quickly. So you get a slower trickle of carb - probably a good idea if you need to eat/drink something about a half hour before you train so you're not empty, but need it to be easy to consume as you're running out the door.

Regarding the earlier question, on dextrose - yes, dextrose is glucose - dextrorotatory glucose. (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/dextrose)

Am I right by saying it's a good carb? Or are Dex and Malto just as bad as refined sugar?

Built
12-08-2005, 01:43 PM
Refined sugar is neither good nor bad. It's just a food. It's calories.

Dex/malto are refined sugars that are specifically used for the insulin response and to be preferentially taken up by muscle glycogen, something that fructose is not, and since sucrose is functionally a glucose bonded to a fructose, it's not the "ideal" sugar for this purpose.

intargc
12-08-2005, 01:50 PM
Well, refined sugar being bad as in being an empty calorie... I mean, if you're cramming down sugar as part of a high calorie diet, that's not going to help you gain weight the way you want to, correct? Isn't that why people complain so much about the old weight gainers that had like 50 grams of sugar per serving?

Built
12-08-2005, 01:59 PM
In this application, dex/malto will do a better job for the calories consumed.

:)

gettinjackT
12-10-2005, 01:41 PM
Not enough of a spike. First off, the fiber slows it down. Second, fructose is low GI, and preferentially taken up by liver glycogen, not muscle glycogen, although as I understand it, post workout, that's not the main thing you're looking at - what you want is a strong insulin response to offset muscle catabolism. Fruit/fruit juice won't accomplish this nearly as well as dextrose and whey in water.

I don't agree with this. IMO, the post-workout insulin spike is not necessary. By ingesting carbs such as oatmeal immediately post-WO, blood sugar increases at a steady rate, and insulin levels stay somewhat stable. This hence leads to a continuous anabolic period post-WO, even though it may take a few more minutes to begin. A good pre-workout meal is also essential to minimize catabolism.

An insulin spike post-WO may have its benefits, but I don't think it is any better. And of course oats are much better for you than processed sugars from a health standpoint as well.

And back to the original question; if you don't like oats, why not try another whole grain? If you really want to blend oats in juice, just use a 100% juice with no added sugar like everyone has said. Juice is not bad for you, just don't overdo it if you are cutting.

Built
12-10-2005, 01:53 PM
I don't agree with this. IMO, the post-workout insulin spike is not necessary. By ingesting carbs such as oatmeal immediately post-WO, blood sugar increases at a steady rate, and insulin levels stay somewhat stable. This hence leads to a continuous anabolic period post-WO, even though it may take a few more minutes to begin. A good pre-workout meal is also essential to minimize catabolism.

Bingo. Your pre-workout nutrition HAS to be there. In its absence, the post workout insulin spike is the next best thing.

In practice, this is how I do it, too - oats and cottage cheese about an hour before I train, more oats or some other solid starch with more protein right away after.

I'm bulking right now, so I can afford the calories - I sip a dilute whey and dexrose shake while I train right now. When I can't afford the calories, I skip this part.


An insulin spike post-WO may have its benefits, but I don't think it is any better. And of course oats are much better for you than processed sugars from a health standpoint as well.

And back to the original question; if you don't like oats, why not try another whole grain? If you really want to blend oats in juice, just use a 100% juice with no added sugar like everyone has said. Juice is not bad for you, just don't overdo it if you are cutting.

Now, this part - 100% juice, not sweetened - why would this matter? Unless it's freshly squeezed, juice is just sugar-water with vitamin C added.

gettinjackT
12-10-2005, 02:44 PM
Now, this part - 100% juice, not sweetened - why would this matter? Unless it's freshly squeezed, juice is just sugar-water with vitamin C added.

Well, some juices are closer to freshly squeezed then others. Some supermarkets(definately health food supermarkets) will sell fruit juices that are not from a concentrate and with no additional sugars added. This would be the next best thing to freshly sqeezed. I would look for something like that.

Built
12-10-2005, 04:08 PM
How, exactly, is the sugar in fruit juice better for you if it's not from concentrate?

Listen, if you LOVE the taste of juice, drink it. But it's not fundamentally better for you than soda pop and a vitamin pill. And it certainly isn't superior to dextrose and whey in water when it comes to post-workout nutrition.

gettinjackT
12-10-2005, 08:03 PM
How, exactly, is the sugar in fruit juice better for you if it's not from concentrate?

Listen, if you LOVE the taste of juice, drink it. But it's not fundamentally better for you than soda pop and a vitamin pill. And it certainly isn't superior to dextrose and whey in water when it comes to post-workout nutrition.


Well, I'm just talking from a health standpoint, not a "cutting" standpoint. You must agree that orange juice is healthier than coke? But I get what you are saying (I think); as far as cutting goes, sugar is sugar.

Built
12-10-2005, 10:01 PM
I'm not convinced orange juice is fundamentally healthier than a coke. At least, not if we're talking about anything but freshly squeezed, which is STILL a really, REALLY easy way to suck back a LOT of sugar:

An 8-ounce serving of orange juice (freshly squeezed, from concentrate, whatever)has about 27g of carbohydrate, that breaks down as follows:

Total Carbohydrate 26.8g
...Dietary Fiber 0.5g
...Sugars 20.9g
.....Sucrose 8.617g
.....Glucose 5.826g
.....Fructose 6.375g

An 8-oz serving of coca cola:

Total Carbohydrate 19.2g
...Dietary Fiber 0.0g
...Sugars 14.7g
.....Sucrose 0.488g
.....Glucose 5.368g
.....Fructose 7.857g
.....Lactose 0.788g
.....Maltose 0.488g

source (http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-B00001-01c20Vr.html)

Basically, if you want fruit, eat fruit - it's fresh, it's raw, it's got fiber, it's good for you.

You LOVE the taste of juice, well, then drink it. But don't convince yourself it's health food. And if you're drinking it for the insulin response, there are better sugars for that task - namely a 50/50 blend of malto and dex.

Spartacus
12-11-2005, 12:37 AM
most juices have all the nutrients that hte fuit does, except fibre. so if you're getting enough fibre already, who cares?

and if you want insulin, just drink a bunhc of milk.

Built
12-11-2005, 12:42 AM
I suppose if the juice you drink is freshly squeezed, you're getting most of the stuff that's in whole fruit, but you're not getting all of it. And you don't have the fiber slowing it down.

Besides most folks don't drink fresh-squeezed all the time.

Now, what do you mean "if you want insulin, just drink a bunch of milk"?

Spartacus
12-11-2005, 02:20 AM
the implication was: milk is insulinogenic

Built
12-11-2005, 02:30 AM
Pretty much EVERYTHING you eat stimulates insulin, to some degree.

gettinjackT
12-11-2005, 10:52 AM
I'm not convinced orange juice is fundamentally healthier than a coke. At least, not if we're talking about anything but freshly squeezed, which is STILL a really, REALLY easy way to suck back a LOT of sugar:

An 8-ounce serving of orange juice (freshly squeezed, from concentrate, whatever)has about 27g of carbohydrate, that breaks down as follows:

Total Carbohydrate 26.8g
...Dietary Fiber 0.5g
...Sugars 20.9g
.....Sucrose 8.617g
.....Glucose 5.826g
.....Fructose 6.375g

An 8-oz serving of coca cola:

Total Carbohydrate 19.2g
...Dietary Fiber 0.0g
...Sugars 14.7g
.....Sucrose 0.488g
.....Glucose 5.368g
.....Fructose 7.857g
.....Lactose 0.788g
.....Maltose 0.488g

source (http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-B00001-01c20Vr.html)

Basically, if you want fruit, eat fruit - it's fresh, it's raw, it's got fiber, it's good for you.

You LOVE the taste of juice, well, then drink it. But don't convince yourself it's health food. And if you're drinking it for the insulin response, there are better sugars for that task - namely a 50/50 blend of malto and dex.

I agree that fresh fruit is better than fruit juice because it contains the entire fruit including the fiber(orange juice w/ pulp is a little better).

However, fruit juice is still MUCH better than coke. Those nutritionally stats you gave don't tell the whole story. The fructose contained in the fruit juice is natural. Moderate amounts of natural fructose can be easily digested by without any stress to the body. Natural fructose does not cause rollercoaster blood sugar, unless you overdo it. This is because fruit juice still contains important enzymes(maltase & invertase to break down the fructose), allowing the glucose to be used or stored quickly and easily and thus removed from the blood. Natural fructose is also not addicting.

On the other hand, the coke contains a synthetic type of fructose called high fructose corn syrup which cannot be well digested, actually inhibits digestion, and is very addicting. There are no ezymes in coke to break down this fructose.

Built
12-11-2005, 06:16 PM
Vegetables and fruits do contain enzymes - if picked fully ripe - but only raw juice that was JUST squeezed will contain any appreciable amount of these these enzymes, which I'm fairly sure have no function in their own digestion.

(Papaya, pinapple and I think kiwi have an enzyme that digests meat, but that's because it occurs in the fruit to destroy parasites)

I've read that many plant enzymes interfere with digestion, so our bodies destroy them.

Commercially available juice, even "freshly squeezed", is unlikely to contain very much, if any, of these raw, active enzymes.

The fructose in high fructose corn syrup is no different from the fructose in an apple. It's fructose. Your body can't tell the difference.

High fructose corn syrup is glucose and fructose, roughly isomolar as I recall. The same ratio of glucose to fructose that we see in orange juice, come to think of it.

I've been ON type II diabetes medication. I can assure you, I wasn't drinking soda or eating donuts. There are actually nutritional guidlines for parents now advising them to limit their children's juice consumption.

Fruit IS good for you. But fruit juice is a VERY easy way to over-consume sugar.

Bottom line, like anything else, is that if you can afford the calories, knock yourself out. Hell, I eat as much good quality dark chocolate as I can get away with - to each his poison. But don't try to convince yourself fruit juice is particularly heathy. It's just food, and not a particularly nutrient-dense one at that.

Built
12-11-2005, 06:41 PM
By the way gettin, here's the link to the post you plagiarized to back up your opinion:
http://alternative-medicine-message-boards.info/viewtopic.php?t=51&view=next&sid=df4c1ed0616d1772d42540632f2d91a3

It was an excerpt from "SUGAR: THE SWEET THIEF OF LIFE" by Tim O'Shea.

He's a chiropractor.

Slim Schaedle
12-11-2005, 06:45 PM
I agree that fresh fruit is better than fruit juice because it contains the entire fruit including the fiber(orange juice w/ pulp is a little better).

However, fruit juice is still MUCH better than coke. Those nutritionally stats you gave don't tell the whole story. The fructose contained in the fruit juice is natural. Moderate amounts of natural fructose can be easily digested by the body with no stress or depleting of mineral stores. Natural fructose does not cause rollercoaster blood sugar, unless the person overdoes it. This is because fruit juice still contains important enzymes(maltase & invertase to break down the fructose), allowing the glucose to be used or stored quickly and easily and thus removed from the blood. Natural fructose is also not addicting.

On the other hand, the coke contains a synthetic type of fructose called high fructose corn syrup which cannot be well digested, actually inhibits digestion, and is very addicting. There are no ezymes in coke to break down this fructose.

People don't get diabetes because they drink too much orange juice. They get diabetes from drinking a six-pack of coke every day, or a jug of Hi-C, or a box of donuts or whatever else.
gettinjackT, just curious where most of this info. came from.

Slim Schaedle
12-11-2005, 06:47 PM
By the way gettin, here's the link to the post you plagiarized to back up your opinion:
http://alternative-medicine-message-boards.info/viewtopic.php?t=51&view=next&sid=df4c1ed0616d1772d42540632f2d91a3

It was an excerpt from "SUGAR: THE SWEET THIEF OF LIFE" by Tim O'Shea.

He's a chiropractor.
LOL, funny that you posted that right as I responded with what I did above. And yes, there are quite a few inaccuracies in there.

Shall I pick it apart piece by piece?

Built
12-11-2005, 06:57 PM
I was hoping that someone smart would step up to the plate here.

Slim, please - pick away!

gettinjackT
12-11-2005, 07:02 PM
gettinjackT, just curious where most of this info. came from.


um, I don't know...my head :) , studies/books I've read over the years.

gettinjackT
12-11-2005, 07:05 PM
I've never read that article, but I've read many of his references. You can pick that article apart if you'd like, it wasn't bad, I'd like to hear it.

P.S. I took out the part about diabetes since I cannot really prove that. And because of what built said, I believe her.

Built
12-11-2005, 07:15 PM
I've never read that article, but I've read many of his references.

Really?

From your post:

"Those nutritionally stats you gave don't tell the whole story. The fructose contained in the fruit juice is natural. Moderate amounts of natural fructose can be easily digested by the body with no stress or depleting of mineral stores. Natural fructose does not cause rollercoaster blood sugar, unless the person overdoes it. This is because fruit juice still contains important enzymes(maltase & invertase to break down the fructose), allowing the glucose to be used or stored quickly and easily and thus removed from the blood. Natural fructose is also not addicting.

On the other hand, the coke contains a synthetic type of fructose called high fructose corn syrup which cannot be well digested, actually inhibits digestion, and is very addicting. There are no ezymes in coke to break down this fructose. "


From the article:

"Remember, natural fructose is contained in most raw fruits and vegetables. It is a natural food. Moderate amounts of natural fructose can be easily digested by the body with no stress or depleting of mineral stores.

Natural fructose does not cause rollercoaster blood sugar, unless the person overdoes it. Natural fructose is not addicting.

High fructose corn syrup, by contrast, cannot be well digested ..."

gettinjackT
12-11-2005, 07:23 PM
maybe I did read it, huh, I've never been to that web site. Is there another web site with this article?

Built
12-11-2005, 07:28 PM
Honey, give this one up. You got caught plagiarizing, and your source isn't worth defending.

Suck it up and learn from the experience.

Next time you want to find something to back up your opinion, try peer-reviewed journal articles. Pubmed is an excellent place to look.

smalls
12-11-2005, 07:37 PM
The fructose in high fructose corn syrup is no different from the fructose in an apple. It's fructose. Your body can't tell the difference.

Fruit IS good for you. But fruit juice is a VERY easy way to over-consume sugar.

Bottom line, like anything else, is that if you can afford the calories, knock yourself out. Hell, I eat as much good quality dark chocolate as I can get away with - to each his poison. But don't try to convince yourself fruit juice is particularly heathy. It's just food, and not a particularly nutrient-dense one at that.


This sums it up very well. There is some seriously quality stuff in this thread. How or why anyone would choose to oppose built on this one is beyond me. I learned things here and i'm a stubborn bastard, props.

Slim Schaedle
12-12-2005, 12:40 AM
You can pick that article apart if you'd like, it wasn't bad, I'd like to hear itWelp, here goes...

Moderate amounts of natural fructose can be easily digested by without any stress to the body.
Well, the definition of moderate would certainly come into play here, but humans show difficulty in the absorption of fructose amounts in the range from 20g to 50g. Fructose absorption is limited in nearly 60% of normal adults with intestinal distress (symptomatic of malabsorption) frequently showing in ingestion of over 50g.



Natural fructose does not cause rollercoaster blood sugar, unless you overdo it.
This is false due to the fact there is NO fructose cirulation in the blood, as fructose is efficiently trapped and phosphorylated by the liver. It does not stimulate insulin release from the pancreas either.

Now, what is "overdoing it?" Fructose does get converted to glucose by a process that involves direct phosphorylation (additon of phospate (by ATP)) by hexokinase (an enzyme) to form fructose 6-phosphate. This is followed by the conversion to glucose 6-phosphate, catalyzed by the enzyme glucose phosphate isomerase. Now, you really don't need to know all this, but it really helps my point. Might I add that this reaction only occurs in the presence of high levels of fructose and is very slow.



This is because fruit juice still contains important enzymes(maltase & invertase to break down the fructose), allowing the glucose to be used or stored quickly and easily and thus removed from the blood. .
Well, maltase is an enzyme but it is responsible for the hydrolysis of maltose, to break it into 2 glucose molecules. Maltase has nothing to do with fructose. Aside from the enzymes I listed in the conversion of fructose to glucose 6-phosphate, fructokinase catalyzses another reaction in which frutose is converted to fructose 6-phosphate, and then to glyceraldehyde and DHAP, and eventually enetering the Krebs cycle as pyruvate, or converted to lactate in anaerobic conditions.

Now let's talk about invertase. It is a yeast derived enzyme that can hydrolize sucrose. (Note that sucrose is broken down into glucose and frucotse very easily by sucrase (produced by the body) in acidic enviornments....such as the stomach)
Commercially, invertase is used where fructose is favored over sucrose, yet our good friend glucose isomerase performs the same job. It is synthetically produced and added to products, and is actually less expensive than using invertase.

On the other hand, the coke contains a synthetic type of fructose called high fructose corn syrup which cannot be well digested, actually inhibits digestion, and is very addicting. There are no ezymes in coke to break down this fructose.I guess it's a good thing that the body takes free form amino acids from the result of protein digestion and assembles new proteins, some of which are enzymes, to perform a vast array of tasks. In fact, one of these enzymes is....you guessed it, our good friend glucose isomerase. High fructose corn syrup actually has a high amount of "free" unbound fructose, unlike pure sucrose. This would essentially make it easier for glucose isomerase to do its job.

Well, that's just off the top of my head so I guess it's good enough for now.

If you did plagarize, you should just admit it. That way we could say that the original author is wrong, instead of holding you accountable for these inaccuracies.

Also, only a few hours ago your user profile said you were born in 1983, and that you were a health sciences major. Now it says you were born in 1963 and you are now a chiropractor.

Built
12-12-2005, 01:37 AM
Also, only a few hours ago your user profile said you were born in 1983, and that you were a health sciences major. Now it says you were born in 1963 and you are now a chiropractor.
It must have been the effect of all that orange juice he's been drinking.

Frutose. I'm telling you ... it's a killer!

jamrock
12-12-2005, 09:23 AM
Built, you're too sexy. ;)

JustLost
12-12-2005, 09:42 AM
It must have been the effect of all that orange juice he's been drinking.

Frutose. I'm telling you ... it's a killer!

I keep tellin' y'all that juicing is bad!

Slim Schaedle
12-12-2005, 12:11 PM
gettinjackT, your location now says London. Yesterday it was some city in America. What gives?

djreef
12-12-2005, 01:04 PM
Wow! alot of crap has happened in this thread since I jumped off last week.

DJ

Built
12-12-2005, 01:28 PM
gettinjackT, your location now says London. Yesterday it was some city in America. What gives?

Indeed. You'd think they'd have better OJ in the States.

JimR
12-12-2005, 02:15 PM
I drink this all the time. It's quite expensive but probably the healthiest supermarket juice.

Jimmy

http://www.pomwonderful.com/blueberry_juice.html