PDA

View Full Version : No Deadlifts for aesthetic purposes?



Chiznarles
12-13-2005, 12:31 PM
I was training over at Gold's in Venice and I ran in to Big Will Harris who is one of the top pro bodybuilders right now. http://www.bigwillharris.com/

anyway, when he asked me what I was working on I told him deadlifts and he asked "Why?" I told them were great at building muscle, etc..

He then asked me if I was training for aesthetic purposes (or bodybuilding) and I said yes and he told me that I shouldn't do deadlifts. He said that they make your waist too wide and that you can hit all the muscles that deadlifts hit separately without making your waist wide.

He said he's never done deadlifts and he's one of the biggest guys at the gym so I kind of took what he said to heart. But what do you think? Should someone who is looking to compete in bodybuilding include deadlifts in to his routine or should he hit those muscles with other exercises?

MixmasterNash
12-13-2005, 12:33 PM
Ronnie Coleman does deadlifts. But he looks like he's pregnant. But I don't think it's the deadlifts.

Anthony
12-13-2005, 12:35 PM
Being fat makes your waist wide. If you enjoy deadlifts, do them. If you don't enjoy deadlifts, do them anyway.

thetopdog
12-13-2005, 12:57 PM
Will Harris is a beast, I think he was in that movie "Be Cool"

Deadlifts can make your waist bigger. Any core exercise can, but I don't think it's something to worry about until you're deadlifting serious weight

RickTheDestroyer
12-13-2005, 12:58 PM
Oh yeah, and Franco sucked too. Terrible waistline and taper. Terrible.

cosmicdebree88
12-13-2005, 01:13 PM
Ronnie Coleman does deadlifts. But he looks like he's pregnant. But I don't think it's the deadlifts.

Yeah that was the GH/massive AAS doses :p



Being fat makes your waist wide. If you enjoy deadlifts, do them. If you don't enjoy deadlifts, do them anyway.

:withstupi

Built
12-13-2005, 01:21 PM
I do deadlifts.

I'm sorry - what was your point?

thetopdog
12-13-2005, 01:34 PM
I do deadlifts.

I'm sorry - what was your point?


but I don't think it's something to worry about until you're deadlifting serious weight

No offense though, I still love you ;)

It's unreasonable to think that an exercises that hits your core (lower back, obliques, abs, etc.) as hard as deadlifts wouldn't thicken your waist to a certain extent. But you have to be lifting heavy enough to see a noticible difference, and even then, the benefits may outweigh the drawbacks

Built
12-13-2005, 01:42 PM
No offense though, I still love you ;)
None taken.


It's unreasonable to think that an exercises that hits your core (lower back, obliques, abs, etc.) as hard as deadlifts wouldn't thicken your waist to a certain extent. But you have to be lifting heavy enough to see a noticible difference, and even then, the benefits may outweigh the drawbacks
I did rack pulls with two plates a side this summer, when I weighed a buck thirty. Not heavy for you, but pretty heavy for me, and it wasn't like I was holding back.

How heavy would I have to go before I'd see my waist thickening?

thetopdog
12-13-2005, 01:50 PM
Double post

thetopdog
12-13-2005, 01:50 PM
How heavy would I have to go before I'd see my waist thickening?

I don't think it's an exact science. But just think about it, you work all the muscles of your core hard, you should expect some hypertrophy. Everybody always says abs are just like any other muscle, and they don't need 50 reps or whatever, so why would they be different when it comes to hypertrophy?

I apologize if I came off as condescending. Just to be clear, I wouldn't even say that I'm deadlifting enough weight to noticibly thicken my waist, and I'm in the 350-400 range for reps (which is kind of sad for someone my size actually)

bullethead74
12-13-2005, 02:00 PM
Surely as long as you work every other body part as hard, then you will maintain your taper, which, unless I'm mistaken is failrly genetic based anyway

khari
12-13-2005, 02:00 PM
Here's a picture of Dave Gulledge (powerlifter). Notice his thick waist due to lots of deadlifts.

Built
12-13-2005, 02:04 PM
Thank you topdog - I didn't think you came off as condescending, but you did come off sounding a hair na´ve.

Heavy hits to your obliques can make the waist appear a bit wider, although unassisted, you'd have a HELL of a time building up THAT much muscle on your torso! That being said, I would think that the forces applied to the torso to stabilize the lift will include a little bit of obliques and abdominals, but more the erectors, no?

A larger circumference on your waist isn't an aesthetic concern to bodybuilders - building up the front and the back won't ruin the line. Your waist can be deep, just so long as it isn't wide.

Mr Joshua
12-13-2005, 02:09 PM
I don't think it's an exact science. But just think about it, you work all the muscles of your core hard, ...

What muscles, specifically, are you talking about? ("core" is too general a term.)

muscleup
12-13-2005, 02:25 PM
Anytime a pro bodybuilder tells you not to do something or they do not do it, they are probably BSing you hard core.

"Milk is for babies"
"Deadlifts make your waist too wide and you can hit all the muscles that deadlifts hit separately without making your waist wide"


That's like saying squating makes your ass too big, and you shouldn't do it.

Freakin n00bs...

You shoulda told "Big Will Harris" to mind his own GD business and to go run another cycle.

FortifiedIron
12-13-2005, 02:36 PM
Your first mistake was listening to a Pro Bodybuilder.

Your second mistake was thinking he was telling the truth.

For the person that said that deadlifts will make your waist thick....read on:

1. Got to bathroom
2. Open up lid to toilet
3. Insert your head
4. Flush

Kc

Sensei
12-13-2005, 02:43 PM
If you want to look strong and be strong, you need to deadlift. Can you hit all of your muscles with other exercises? Yes, but IMHO if you want to be more than a useless collection of bodyparts, you need to be doing heavy compound movements.

bloodninja
12-13-2005, 02:47 PM
Weird. From what I've read, deadlifts are one of the best exercises for getting that V shape.

RBC13
12-13-2005, 03:03 PM
Im quoting this from someone............"Deads are like women, they can hurt you, but they can also make you a man"

Chiznarles
12-13-2005, 03:04 PM
to his defense he's a pretty nice easy going guy.. i just wanted to get your opinions on such a statement since i never heard it before until he said it yesterday.


You shoulda told "Big Will Harris" to mind his own GD business and to go run another cycle.

I like to see you say that to his face.

Deadlifter
12-13-2005, 04:42 PM
That's ridiculous. I'd say squats work your core even more than deadlifts, because it has to stabilize a heavy weight on your back as opposed to when you're holding it.

Built
12-13-2005, 04:53 PM
Absolutely.

<= squats.

muscleup
12-13-2005, 05:10 PM
I like to see you say that to his face.

lol I didn't say "I woulda" I said "You shoulda"
He probably woulda ate you AND the weights you were DL'ing :D

smalls
12-13-2005, 05:14 PM
Having a tiny or large waist has far more to do with bodyfat and genetic predisposition than any exercise. How much potential for girth do you think your abdominals and obliques really have?

That being said I can still see abs ok with a 40" waist. And mine has been as small as 29" LOL. For some reason my waist likes to be huge, I suck. And I dont do traditional deadlifts.

Stop worrying about the little things that wont make a difference.

Built
12-13-2005, 05:45 PM
In other words ... don't sweat the petty things. (And don't pet the sweaty things!) ;)

smalls
12-13-2005, 05:56 PM
LOL.

Only built could pull that off.


Eat lots and lift heavy things.

Chiznarles
12-13-2005, 06:09 PM
Having a tiny or large waist has far more to do with bodyfat and genetic predisposition than any exercise. How much potential for girth do you think your abdominals and obliques really have?

That being said I can still see abs ok with a 40" waist. And mine has been as small as 29" LOL. For some reason my waist likes to be huge, I suck. And I dont do traditional deadlifts.

Stop worrying about the little things that wont make a difference.

yeah i feel you on the huge waist.. well mine isn't huge right now but i'd like it to look a little more tapered than it is right now at 32".. maybe i just need to make my lats look much wider.. =D

cphafner
12-13-2005, 08:55 PM
Deadlifts have really given BCC a terribly thick waist.

spencerjrus
12-13-2005, 10:12 PM
Even if he wasnt BSing you it was still a mistake to listen to a pro bodybuilder, they are not reknown for their excellent training advice.

Jay-X
12-14-2005, 04:57 AM
i never do deadlifts (don't kill me;)), but since i started doing squats, my waist looks larger... obviously it's because of bodyfat going up from 10% to 14% or so... but i'll have to come up with something to shrink it, since it already tends to stick out when my bodyfat is above 8%... and largeness + stickingoutness = sick waist

Mad Max
12-14-2005, 06:58 AM
Do Frank Zane and Ulyssees Jr do deadlifts? If so, then they wont give you a thick waist. Getting bigger overall will give you a thick waist though.

Guido
12-14-2005, 08:19 AM
In other words ... don't sweat the petty things. (And don't pet the sweaty things!) ;)Nice quote. I think I have a new one for my sig. :)

Guido
12-14-2005, 08:23 AM
Here's a picture of Dave Gulledge (powerlifter). Notice his thick waist due to lots of deadlifts.NIIIICE. I think that guy has exactly the physique I am shooting for. :strong:

Silverback
12-14-2005, 11:18 AM
It depends on the person, i worked my way upto 500lb deads for sets of 6-8. And i noticed a definate change in my waistline. (considering i was at 8% bf at the time)

Since dropping deadlifts and focusing on DB rows and chins, my waist has come down considerably and people are commenting on how much wider my back looks, when in reality it hasnt got bigger...my waist got smaller.

wrestlemaniac
12-16-2005, 09:11 PM
So wait.... we're not listening to what pro's tell us now?

Songsangnim
12-17-2005, 05:35 AM
Did we ever?

Due to their world-class genetics and chemical aids, most pros have never needed to learn what works for a genetically average person who is not on steroids.

body
12-17-2005, 07:44 AM
you can look good with out doing deadlifts.
you can look good and do deadlifts.

thats sums it up to me.

khari
12-17-2005, 08:14 AM
So wait.... we're not listening to what pro's tell us now?

Go try one of Arnold's advanced routines. When you get out of the hospital, you can tell us if listening to pro bodybuilders is a good idea.

body
12-17-2005, 01:21 PM
So wait.... we're not listening to what pro's tell us now?

just as people on most web sites like this, there is lots of contridicting answer between pro's.

find ones you like (like people on here for advice) and follow there guidlines.

some pro's know a lot, some are full of sh**. Arnold admitted that he used to wind people up about routines.

khalid05
12-17-2005, 03:03 PM
Did we ever?

Due to their world-class genetics and chemical aids, most pros have never needed to learn what works for a genetically average person who is not on steroids.

I alot people in here seem to be doing cycles(on gear) as well, maybe not as much gear. :windup:

Songsangnim
12-17-2005, 07:33 PM
I alot people in here seem to be doing cycles(on gear) as well, maybe not as much gear. :windup:


I don't see anyone here who has the genetics of a IFBB pro though, and that is a MUCH bigger determining marker of success in the BB area than gear.

smalls
12-17-2005, 08:25 PM
I don't see anyone here who has the genetics of a IFBB pro though, and that is a MUCH bigger determining marker of success in the BB area than gear.

Agreed. When you actually meet a person who has those genetics and see what they can do with their body on a horrible diet and next to retarted routine it really hits home how powerfull some peoples genetics are.

Sensei
12-18-2005, 06:08 AM
I don't see anyone here who has the genetics of a IFBB pro though, and that is a MUCH bigger determining marker of success in the BB area than gear.
How are you coming to that conclusion? Some pros didn't look like much before they started lifting seriously...

The reason I bring this up is that I can't stand the "I'm-a-hardgainer" mentality. Admittedly, there are a very small percentage on either end of the spectrum, but MOST people, including many Mr. O competitors and the flabby ass on the treadmill, are inbetween.

Silverback
12-18-2005, 10:34 AM
The People on the Mr Olympia stage are not inbetween! They are the elite, pre-disposed with the ability to put on mass muscle with like smalls said shocking diets and other factors that would leave the average person stranded.

Everyone brings up well so and so was skinny at 18, everyone starts somewhere! I like the Ruhl example, at 19 he was as thin as a rake, he wasnt bodybuilding then! He was a pretty good soccer player, but an injury turned him to weight training. 2yrs down the line he's a ****ing gargantuan! Ive never seen anyone with less than elite genetics build that much size in 10 yrs let alone 2!

As much as it hurts for a lot of people to take, genetics matter...big time! Whether it be structural or just the protein synthesis ability etc...

Songsangnim
12-19-2005, 04:25 AM
How are you coming to that conclusion? Some pros didn't look like much before they started lifting seriously...

The reason I bring this up is that I can't stand the "I'm-a-hardgainer" mentality. Admittedly, there are a very small percentage on either end of the spectrum, but MOST people, including many Mr. O competitors and the flabby ass on the treadmill, are inbetween.


No. Maybe 30 years ago or so, but now they are the elite of the elite. Regardless of whether they looked like BEFORE they started bodybuilding, they had very good genes. Weightlifting just bought that out. You won't ALWAYS look big and ripped even before you start weightlifting. It's how your body (genetics) responds to it. If you gain MUSCLE mass fast, and lots of it, you have good genetics, regardless of whether you are skinny or not before you started.

As regards the skinny maybe it was lack of proper food, or rest. Once they got into bodybuilding and realized the importance of proper food and rest they grew like weeds. I doubt there is a single competive IFBB pro out there today who is or was a "hardgainer".

spencerjrus
12-19-2005, 09:27 AM
No. Maybe 30 years ago or so, but now they are the elite of the elite. Regardless of whether they looked like BEFORE they started bodybuilding, they had very good genes. Weightlifting just bought that out. You won't ALWAYS look big and ripped even before you start weightlifting. It's how your body (genetics) responds to it. If you gain MUSCLE mass fast, and lots of it, you have good genetics, regardless of whether you are skinny or not before you started.

As regards the skinny maybe it was lack of proper food, or rest. Once they got into bodybuilding and realized the importance of proper food and rest they grew like weeds. I doubt there is a single competive IFBB pro out there today who is or was a "hardgainer".



The more I learn about bodybuilding the less I believe in the idea of a "hardgainer". There are only ectomorphs who dont eat enough.

smalls
12-19-2005, 11:44 AM
Weather or not there are hardgainers, there most certainly are easygainers. Guys who eat maybe 3500 cals, have no consistancy to their diet and yet are still 5'9 220 sub 10%BF, sick muscle bellies and awesome proportions.
Once you have actually met someone like this and listen to them talk about their diet and routine you realize how amazing some peoples genetics really are.
A hardgainer is the opposite of this. Anyone can gain weight, anyone can gain muscle. It's the proportion of muscle to fat, that makes someone a hardgainer. Some peoples bodies just dont want to hold onto much muscle.

Sug
12-19-2005, 12:14 PM
I agree with Smalls,

I have a friend who is 6'1 and went out of HS doing the Football routine, heavy lifts and squats, presses, etc. Now in about 6 months or so He dropped lower body workouts because " Im not a pornstar or football player, no one needs to see my legs" and gained 15lbs of upperbody mass. Then when he told me he's diet I was amazed, nothing in the morning, a couple of sandwiches before workout, cheetos after with some home cooking and thats about it. Probably 2000-2500 calories. While Im here forking over 4000 at 5'8 barely gainin 1/2lb a week. :cry:

Focused70
12-19-2005, 12:59 PM
I do deadlifts.

I'm sorry - what was your point?

pwn3d!

:zipit: