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khari
12-20-2005, 06:48 PM
What's the most obscure or 'rare' lifts you've seen anyone do at the gym? Last Saturday I was at a competition (not competing due to broken arm) and one of the old guys there, probably in his late 60s, busted out a split snatch like it was 1955. It was pretty cool, I think I'll have to give it a try when I'm back in the gym.

Built
12-20-2005, 07:14 PM
Zottmans. So far, I'm the only person I've seen doing them at Olympic.

Or Anderson squats.

KevinStarke
12-20-2005, 07:32 PM
I saw a guy today doing a lot of work with kettle bells, first person i've seen use them in a loooooooooooong time.

Sensei
12-20-2005, 11:30 PM
http://weightlifting.moonfruit.com/

Bob
12-21-2005, 08:48 AM
Awesome Sensei... that's one of the best sites ever... I thought I knew a few, but that site blew me away. Especially those 2 person lifts.. man you gotta trust somebody to do those with you!!

Meat_Head
12-22-2005, 12:23 PM
I saw a guy attempting 1 arm deadlifts. I would've been really impressed if he'd have been using a weight heavier than 65lbs and something resembling good form! Aside from that, people at my gym generally stick to curls and bench presses.

Isaac Wilkins
12-22-2005, 01:30 PM
I do Zottman Curls and One-arm BB Snatches regularly.

MixmasterNash
12-22-2005, 02:38 PM
The OA barbell snatches are fun, though I don't do them like they demo with the full tucked torso rotation. I just resort to a power snatch.

ArchAngel777
01-03-2006, 01:07 PM
I saw a guy attempting 1 arm deadlifts. I would've been really impressed if he'd have been using a weight heavier than 65lbs and something resembling good form! Aside from that, people at my gym generally stick to curls and bench presses.

Yeah, that would be kind of funny. The 1 arm deadlift doesn't have much use, but I guess it is fine to deviate and try new things. I used to power snatch 135? lbs with one arm. That is rather fun, because it is a balance act. But it really has no purpose other than "fun"... I might try those again sometimes, that reminded me of them.

On another note, my old coach/trainer Charlie Jones did a 555 lb one arm deadlift for an exhibition at a weightlifting meet back in the 70's... He said his back killed for a month after that. Obviusly he didn't do it with just his grip, he used straps. The man is 65 years old and is still dead lifting 400 for 5 reps, pretty impressive.

MixmasterNash
01-03-2006, 02:22 PM
Why aren't the one arm lifts useful?

They VERY useful and sport specific for things like throwing.

ArchAngel777
01-03-2006, 02:36 PM
Why aren't the one arm lifts useful?

They VERY useful and sport specific for things like throwing.

I don't think they are useful because they will cause an imbalance in muscle gain. Unless you are going to alternate hands, which I have never met a person that does. People tend to favor one side when doing 1 arm type stuff, it is human nature. If you happen to be one of the few that can do the snatch with either arm, then for you, they are beneficial.

As for throwing, I fail to see how the snatch directly trains a thrower... Unless you are doing a one arm log toss, I really don't see how a one arm snatch is going to train for anything specific. It would be considered a rather generic training lift that would help with overall balance.

I am certainly open to being enlightened if you can give me a sport that has a range of a motion like the 1 arm snatch. Besides when posting like my paragraph above, it is talking about the vast majority of people. There are always exceptions to the rule and you need not take offense if that is the case.

Sensei
01-03-2006, 02:57 PM
I don't think he was taking offense to it.

IMHO, one arm lifts are great for preparing the body for applying strength and power and absorbing shock in awkward (but not unsafe) situations.

I can't imagine if you are training in the gym and striving for balanced development (as most of us are) that you would simply ignore the weaker half of your body...

ArchAngel777
01-03-2006, 03:16 PM
I don't think he was taking offense to it.

IMHO, one arm lifts are great for preparing the body for applying strength and power and absorbing shock in awkward (but not unsafe) situations.

I can't imagine if you are training in the gym and striving for balanced development (as most of us are) that you would simply ignore the weaker half of your body...

It is not really about ignoring the other half of the body... For instance, when you play baseball, do you pitch with both hands? Do you catch with both hands? The answer is "no" unless you are some genetic freak :P

I am left handed and am pretty ambidextrous, but there is no way I could perform a snatch with my right arm, at least not with anywhere near the weight I could do with my left. Does that mean no one can? Of course not, but I know that the overwhelming majority would have a difficult time snatching with their off-hand, it would be like trying to switch hit or pitch with your opposite hand, it just isn't something that most people will be able to accomplish with close to the same results as their main arm.

When dealing with slow lifts it is very reasonable to train both sides hard, but lifts that require coordination and speed, the weaker side will fall behind, and by quite a bit.

That is the main philosophy behind my thoughts on one arm training when dealing with a lift like the snatch.

Sensei
01-03-2006, 03:28 PM
It is not really about ignoring the other half of the body... For instance, when you play baseball, do you pitch with both hands? Do you catch with both hands? The answer is "no" unless you are some genetic freak :P
I thought we were talking about gym lifts, not athletic events.
edit: My point is that the goals are very different.


I am left handed and am pretty ambidextrous, but there is no way I could perform a snatch with my right arm, at least not with anywhere near the weight I could do with my left. Does that mean no one can? Of course not, but I know that the overwhelming majority would have a difficult time snatching with their off-hand, it would be like trying to switch hit or pitch with your opposite hand, it just isn't something that most people will be able to accomplish with close to the same results as their main arm.

When dealing with slow lifts it is very reasonable to train both sides hard, but lifts that require coordination and speed, the weaker side will fall behind, and by quite a bit.I can't argue with this, but that doesn't mean that it is not useful which is what I thought your main point was earlier.

ArchAngel777
01-03-2006, 04:02 PM
I thought we were talking about gym lifts, not athletic events.
edit: My point is that the goals are very different.

I can't argue with this, but that doesn't mean that it is not useful which is what I thought your main point was earlier.

Well, actually my point earlier was that they offer nothing for the vast majority of individuals. When I say "nothing" it doesn't mean void of all positives. It simply is common speach... Some call it hyperbole, others minor exageration. Whatever the case it is in your viewpoint, the answer is simple. What you thought my point meant was different than was intended. That could be your fault or it could be mine. For sake of ending the issue, I can take the blame and I will attempt to be a little more careful, even though I found that my post was perfectly within the bounds of acceptable communication.

Edit ** I am pretty certain that this issue would not have come up if this was in person... You know what I mean? If we were in the gym working out and I said that, you would probably have agreed, because you knew what I was aiming at... Who knows, maybe not. But that is what I think... Anyway, take care.

HILL
01-04-2006, 01:17 PM
Wouldnt a lift like that be good for a baseball pitcher tho as u said he only uses the one arm and u said people would tend to favour one side. surely this would be usefull for him. I imagine their worth doing if you make sure to keep both arms the same and maybe even helpfull especially to some1 as myself who has always had a more dominant arm(my right wanking arm lmao)

BigRic
01-04-2006, 01:41 PM
I'm not sure about the 1 arm barbell snatch but I can do equal weight on 1 arm dumbell snatch.

ArchAngel777
01-04-2006, 01:41 PM
Not entirely sure what you mean. A pitcher does not use a motion like the snatch, so for a pitcher it wouldn't help anymore than a two handed snatch would, since it doesn't share the same range of motion.

If you can certainly work both sides effectively, then by all means go for it. But most people will find better progress doing the two handed power snatch. If you are interesting in balance, I recoment a more difficult two handed lift as a opposed to a basic 1 handed lift. Let me explain what I mean.

The power snatch is simple form of the snatch done in the Olympics. It does not take that much skill, but it does take some skill. A more difficult lift is do the squat snatch (referred just as a snatch). By doing the squat snatch, you will increase balance, strength and many more things and in my opinion would be much greater than performing a 1 handed power snatch. You could do one handed squat snatches, but only if you have mastered the two handed squat snatches.

Basically what I am saying is that if you can find a lift that works both sides evenly and is more advanced than the lift you are currently doing, master that first, then if you want, work on the one handed lifts... Make sense?

MixmasterNash
01-04-2006, 01:42 PM
I was thinking of track and field throwers in particular.

Yes, my right arm is significantly stronger than my left, but a one arm lift can help me work on balancing that out.

Anyway, I suggest that the one arm lifts be primarily used to develop side to side support and stabilization through the core, and that they be done for both arms.

Edit: Also, the one arm DB snatch is much easier to learn and perform safely than even a power snatch, in my experience.

ArchAngel777
01-04-2006, 01:49 PM
I'm not sure about the 1 arm barbell snatch but I can do equal weight on 1 arm dumbell snatch.

Two possible reasons...

1) You are gifted more than 99% of the population.

or

2) You are not using enough weight to really tell a difference.

Could be either one, but keep in mind balancing a 6 inch long object is much easier than a 6 to 7 foot object with weights on the end. In other words, a 1 arm barbell snatch would be more difficult than a 1 arm dumbell snatch.

ArchAngel777
01-04-2006, 02:07 PM
I was thinking of track and field throwers in particular.

Yes, my right arm is significantly stronger than my left, but a one arm lift can help me work on balancing that out.

Anyway, I suggest that the one arm lifts be primarily used to develop side to side support and stabilization through the core, and that they be done for both arms.

Edit: Also, the one arm DB snatch is much easier to learn and perform safely than even a power snatch, in my experience.

I agree with the third paragraph, but there are many other ways to work the stabalizer muscles and I might add, better ways. Without going into too much detail, let me try and explain what I mean.

If someone can power snatch 200 pounds and then one hand snatch 150 pounds what is wrong with that? Well nothing really, but doing the one arm snatch will not work the lower back, legs as much because the weight is lighter as a whole. You are attempting to isolate and train a specific muscle group that is intergrated into another lift. So, like the first 1/2 of the snatch doesn't require balance at all, so that is pretty much extra that need not be done... Because the lift is a composite of several lifts combined into one seemless lift. You would get more muscle balance if you were to military press with one arm. Does that make sense?

Anyway, this is getting a little bit too involved. Nothing is wrong with 1 arm lifts if done properly, but just because something isn't wrong, doesn't make it right or the best lift one could do for that direct type of training.

You know what though? One arm snatches are a heck of a lot of fun, it keeps people interesting in weightlifting and really just overall boosts confidence I think. So, even though I seem like I am nitpicking, I think they are very cool and fun, I just don't believe (opinion) that they should be used regularly as a training tool where time could be spent elsewhere.

The thing is, we have only so much time we can workout in a day. We have only so much stored energy. We have to always look for the most in each workout. I suppose if someone could workout 8 hours a day, they would be able to work on a whole lot of things, they probably would be one the best athletes in the world if they could dedicate a lot of time towards weighted coordination training and so on...

either way, good discussion.

Take care,

Gabriel

johnnytang24
01-04-2006, 09:04 PM
I can one arm barbell snatch the same weight with both hands.

Funny, there's a new article on today on the one arm snatch:
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=871614

cphafner
01-04-2006, 09:10 PM
cool site. I get weird looks if I do Zercher squats.

Sensei
01-04-2006, 09:20 PM
I agree with the third paragraph, but there are many other ways to work the stabalizer muscles and I might add, better ways. Without going into too much detail, let me try and explain what I mean.

If someone can power snatch 200 pounds and then one hand snatch 150 pounds what is wrong with that? Well nothing really, but doing the one arm snatch will not work the lower back, legs as much because the weight is lighter as a whole. You are attempting to isolate and train a specific muscle group that is intergrated into another lift. So, like the first 1/2 of the snatch doesn't require balance at all, so that is pretty much extra that need not be done... Because the lift is a composite of several lifts combined into one seemless lift. You would get more muscle balance if you were to military press with one arm. Does that make sense?
I would say that the lower back/core is worked more in the one arm snatch and you don't really get any rotational work w. traditional barbell exercises. But, as you are hinting at, there ARE better exercises that specifically target them - but, then again, there are better exercises for the lower back and legs than the snatch too...


You know what though? One arm snatches are a heck of a lot of fun, it keeps people interesting in weightlifting and really just overall boosts confidence I think. So, even though I seem like I am nitpicking, I think they are very cool and fun, I just don't believe (opinion) that they should be used regularly as a training tool where time could be spent elsewhere.Training novelty is definately part of the game. I think that's why this thread was started - not to convince anyone to revamp their training to focus on the bent press...

ArchAngel777
01-05-2006, 08:53 AM
I would say that the lower back/core is worked more in the one arm snatch and you don't really get any rotational work w. traditional barbell exercises. But, as you are hinting at, there ARE better exercises that specifically target them - but, then again, there are better exercises for the lower back and legs than the snatch too...

Training novelty is definately part of the game. I think that's why this thread was started - not to convince anyone to revamp their training to focus on the bent press...

Totally agree

MixmasterNash
01-05-2006, 10:55 AM
I think that it's arguable that there are not better exercises for developing explosive power than the one arm snatch, for most trainees.

ArchAngel777
01-05-2006, 11:21 AM
I think that it's arguable that there are not better exercises for developing explosive power than the one arm snatch, for most trainees.

Everything is arguable, for the most part :windup:

:angel:

Meat_Head
01-05-2006, 11:37 AM
I agree with the third paragraph, but there are many other ways to work the stabalizer muscles and I might add, better ways. Without going into too much detail, let me try and explain what I mean.


There are ALOT of stabilizer muscles, and they are worked in many different ways. If you're talking about core strength/stability in general, 1 arm olympic lifts and 1 arm deadlifts are among the best ways to develop it, and for rotational core muscles(mainly obliques) they are THE BEST exercises.



If someone can power snatch 200 pounds and then one hand snatch 150 pounds what is wrong with that? Well nothing really, but doing the one arm snatch will not work the lower back, legs as much because the weight is lighter as a whole. You are attempting to isolate and train a specific muscle group that is intergrated into another lift. So, like the first 1/2 of the snatch doesn't require balance at all, so that is pretty much extra that need not be done... Because the lift is a composite of several lifts combined into one seemless lift. You would get more muscle balance if you were to military press with one arm. Does that make sense?



You know that snatches are completely dependent on the strength of your posterior chain? The difference between your 2 arm snatch and 1 arm shouldn't be big enough to hinder progress at all. If it is, its because you have ****ty single arm shoulder stability(which could be improved by 1 arm snatches), and you better believe that's important to athletics...

MixmasterNash
01-05-2006, 12:05 PM
Everything is arguable, for the most part :windup:

:angel:

Well, in this context I obviously mean that there it is reasonable to argue such a thing.

ArchAngel777
01-05-2006, 12:39 PM
There are ALOT of stabilizer muscles, and they are worked in many different ways. If you're talking about core strength/stability in general, 1 arm olympic lifts and 1 arm deadlifts are among the best ways to develop it, and for rotational core muscles(mainly obliques) they are THE BEST exercises.


You know that snatches are completely dependent on the strength of your posterior chain? The difference between your 2 arm snatch and 1 arm shouldn't be big enough to hinder progress at all. If it is, its because you have ****ty single arm shoulder stability(which could be improved by 1 arm snatches), and you better believe that's important to athletics...

You will not get an arguement from me about olympic lifts being the best workouts in existance... However, I still do not agree that 1 arm olympic lifts are the way to go. We can just dissagree on that, I don't have a problem. I am not telling you to quit doing them, I am simply telling you that I don't find them as useful as even a squat snatch. You are the one that has to determine what is right for your training and it sounds like you have your mind made up about it already.

The snatch is indeed dependant on the posterior chain, but not completely... Your grip plays an influence on it... I understand the concept and the propery mechanics of the clean + jerk and also the snatch, which is why I recomend you doing squat snatches if you are concerned with being athetlic. Those are far more difficult than a 1 arm power snatch. Have you tried them?

Same goes for cleans, do squat cleans if you want to increase your athletic ability... Why don't you try one arm cleans while you are at it? :D Of course, I am kidding.

I am pretty much done with the debate on this issue... I have stated my reasons, you have stated yours, we both dissagree and that is cool with me. As long as you are getting stronger, hitting the goals you want, then who am I to argue? I can't, of course. The same goes for me... Hey by the way, I read your journal and I find it very cool that you are doing cleans and snatches, that makes my heart glad whenever I see anyone doing them... You are a friend if you do any olympic lifts and you know what? Even if you don't, you can still be a buddy... :D

Take care,

Gabriel :angel:

ArchAngel777
01-05-2006, 12:41 PM
Well, in this context I obviously mean that there it is reasonable to argue such a thing.

Yeah, I know, I was just kidding with you.

Meat_Head
01-06-2006, 03:33 PM
You will not get an arguement from me about olympic lifts being the best workouts in existance... However, I still do not agree that 1 arm olympic lifts are the way to go. We can just dissagree on that, I don't have a problem. I am not telling you to quit doing them, I am simply telling you that I don't find them as useful as even a squat snatch. You are the one that has to determine what is right for your training and it sounds like you have your mind made up about it already.


I actually don't do them at all, not to say that I won't sometime soon. My two handed olympic lifts are pretty terrible right now, I'm working on getting those up a bit first.



The snatch is indeed dependant on the posterior chain, but not completely... Your grip plays an influence on it... I understand the concept and the propery mechanics of the clean + jerk and also the snatch, which is why I recomend you doing squat snatches if you are concerned with being athetlic. Those are far more difficult than a 1 arm power snatch. Have you tried them?


Are you talking about grip as in form or as in strength? Either way it shouldn't be an issue, you have to learn the form before you know what your strength in the exercise is, and grip strength shouldn't be a problem(unless its a serious weak point) as any heavy weightlifting involving pulling should have taken care of it.



Same goes for cleans, do squat cleans if you want to increase your athletic ability... Why don't you try one arm cleans while you are at it? :D Of course, I am kidding.


Actually power and hang olympic lifts are far more effective for athletics in general as they allow you to overload that explosive pull and shrug without the deep knee bend. The deep squat in the full oly lifts pretty much all about form, balance, and flexibility.



I am pretty much done with the debate on this issue... I have stated my reasons, you have stated yours, we both dissagree and that is cool with me. As long as you are getting stronger, hitting the goals you want, then who am I to argue? I can't, of course. The same goes for me... Hey by the way, I read your journal and I find it very cool that you are doing cleans and snatches, that makes my heart glad whenever I see anyone doing them... You are a friend if you do any olympic lifts and you know what? Even if you don't, you can still be a buddy... :D


Thanks for the props, just arguing for knowledge nothing personal :)

Fenrir
01-13-2006, 05:31 AM
Actually at gym today there was a guy about my age (16) who piled on a fair bit of weight and tried to do 3 sets of 1 rep each for whatever he was doing...i don't know what he was targetting but the exercise itself didn't look effective, let alone the choice of reps

cphafner
01-14-2006, 08:25 PM
I did some Zercher squats at the gym yesterday and got some very odd looks.

Ja113
01-18-2006, 10:06 PM
Zerchers, JM tricep extensions, Hungarian stand up (or Romanian...can't remember exact name but you lie on your side, holding a DB straight up then you stand up a fast as you can...these are wickedly hard at rep 5), OH squats (although they're not as forgotten)...power curls.

Sensei
01-18-2006, 10:39 PM
That would be a TURKISH get up...

Ja113
01-19-2006, 10:42 PM
Right...Thanks Sensei...