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Davidelmo
12-24-2005, 01:27 PM
I have heard that you need all amino acids necessary to make the protein for you to be able to start synthesising it. I have often heard this used as an argument for why meat protein is better than milk, eggs etc.
However, I know there are vegetarian members on her who get their protein from soy, nuts, milk etc.

Therefore my question is does the source of protein matter?
Lets say hypothetically the only protein in my diet came from milk.
Would milk alone be a sufficient protein source or do you need different types?

Also, can anyone elaborate on this animal protein matter?

A major source of protein (around 90g a day) for me IS milk. I have whey protein powder, soy nuts etc as a protein source too but am I limiting my gains because I dont eat a meat dish every day?

Nongan
12-24-2005, 05:14 PM
i'm not really the best person to answer this, but I think as long as your getting plenty of protein, your not gonna see a major difference in gains if you get your protein from different sources than somebody else.

anasthetic
12-24-2005, 06:04 PM
heard this used as an argument for why meat protein is better than milk, eggs etc.
However, I know there are vegetarian members on her who get their protein from soy, nuts, milk etc.


Just to clarify, I am pretty sure that dairy and egg protein are both classified as "complete" proteins of the same quality as meat protein. It is plant proteins that are considered inferior.

Davidelmo
12-24-2005, 06:08 PM
Yes, I'm pretty sure that milk contains all 8 essential aminos, so does that make it okay?
I understand that the other aminos can be synthesised from these 8. Would there be any benefit in acitvely trying to get more non-essential aminos on top so that muscle protein synthesis could occur quicker without having to undergo conversion first?

I also found this site http://www.dietitian.com/ibw/ibw.html where you can fill in a whole load of questions and get an ideal number of calories and macro breakdown. It's a lot more detailed than fitday in assessing your goals etc.

hngacurv
12-25-2005, 12:44 PM
Yes type matters. The Biological Value of protein sources vary greatly. Whey protein has the highest BV, but it does get digested quickly so it isn't appropriate for all meals. Here is a good article and list of protein sources and their BV.

http://www.powersupplements.com/protein.htm

Davidelmo
12-25-2005, 02:12 PM
But Im not limiting my gains by drinking tons of milk as a major protein source?

I'm not bothered about the fat and carb content at all.

debussy
12-25-2005, 02:55 PM
The only thing to watch out for when consuming a lot of one thing is the limited variety of vitamins and minerals that you intake. Milk should be fine as far as it being a complete protein.

Canadian Crippler
12-25-2005, 03:16 PM
Yeah exactly. If it's going to be a huge part of your diet (50% +), take a multi or make sure the other 50% are very different foods.

smalls
12-25-2005, 03:50 PM
Yes type matters. The Biological Value of protein sources vary greatly. Whey protein has the highest BV, but it does get digested quickly so it isn't appropriate for all meals. Here is a good article and list of protein sources and their BV.

http://www.powersupplements.com/protein.htm


Please expound if you would. Complete vs imcomplete protein matters, but if your getting excess protein (as most people here are) then I highly doubt BV and type is going to make a significant difference.

Newbs tend to worry about the small stuff way too much.

Davidelmo
12-25-2005, 04:56 PM
The only thing to watch out for when consuming a lot of one thing is the limited variety of vitamins and minerals that you intake. Milk should be fine as far as it being a complete protein.

and


Yeah exactly. If it's going to be a huge part of your diet (50% +), take a multi or make sure the other 50% are very different foods.

I take a multivitamin every day so I think I'm fine for most vitamins and minerals. My calcium must be through the roof though, hehe. Thankfully with extra protein intake and plenty of water it shouldn't damage my kidneys.

It's just so easy to drink milk. 6 pints has almost 2000kcal and close to 100g protein.

My other protein sources are whey powder, nuts and meat.

Today I had 10oz of ham for Christmas dinner, yum!

Canadian Crippler
12-25-2005, 07:50 PM
Sounds like someone's got his bulking in check :p

Good luck with your goals.

brickt.
12-25-2005, 08:07 PM
Protein quality is important, but like others have suggested, so do the vits and other goodies that come with food.


Newbs tend to worry about the small stuff way too much.

This also needs a bump. If your trying to gain weight then just eat and lift and sleep. Your body knows what to do, 'cuz, it's smarter than joo. :windup:

TOBART
12-25-2005, 09:17 PM
Ok, I was told by several people who normally give me good advice that it was bad that I was relying on weight gainer and milk to give me the majority of my protein (probably 75% of my daily intake).

They said I would benefit from different protein sources (eggs and meat mainly). So I recently switched my diet to include 50g of protein from eggs and nearly 100g of protein from meats while around 100g still comes from weight gainer and milk.

I've only been doing this for over a month now and I haven't noticed a difference in gains; however, I do FEEL a bit healthier.

smalls
12-25-2005, 09:45 PM
Ok, I was told by several people who normally give me good advice that it was bad that I was relying on weight gainer and milk to give me the majority of my protein (probably 75% of my daily intake).

They said I would benefit from different protein sources (eggs and meat mainly). So I recently switched my diet to include 50g of protein from eggs and nearly 100g of protein from meats while around 100g still comes from weight gainer and milk.

I've only been doing this for over a month now and I haven't noticed a difference in gains; however, I do FEEL a bit healthier.


You sound like you know it's not going to really matter your just doing it in hopes that it will have an a posative affect. It wont fookin matter and is a waste of time an energy even worrying about it. One thing I would address is fiber intake, most weightgainers arent that great in the fiber/calorie ratio which should be addressed. But from a protein perspective, dont worry about it.

Davidelmo
12-26-2005, 06:13 AM
I gave up on weightgainers completely. They were too expensive and you were basically paying for sugar and whey. I buy my whey separately and instead I just drink milk all day long.

You can down 500ml of milk in seconds and it has 320kcal, 16g protein, 18g fat, 11.8g carbs. You don't need to mix it and it tastes GREAT, unlike most weight gainers.

For after workouts I just do a bottle of lucozade followed by the infamous PB, whey, milk, oats shake.

I actually added up the costs and buying weight gainer is STILL more expensive.

TOBART
12-26-2005, 12:22 PM
Smalls, what is the benefit of fiber while trying to gain weight? I'm a hardgainer; like, a real one. I need 4000cals a day just to maintain my 150lbs bodyweight. I always thought that fiber decreased appetite.

JustLost
12-26-2005, 12:55 PM
the infamous PB, whey, milk, oats shake.


You just can't beat that. Totally cheap, and it's all real food.

Something else I do is just shake plain unflavored whey in a glass of milk.

ReelBigFish
12-26-2005, 01:18 PM
Smalls, what is the benefit of fiber while trying to gain weight? I'm a hardgainer; like, a real one. I need 4000cals a day just to maintain my 150lbs bodyweight. I always thought that fiber decreased appetite.

I'm in the same boat as you are. 155lbs at 3800ish to maintain. Fiber is good to help keep you natural and help all the food you're eating pass through you, w/ out causing stomach and digestion problems. Fiber also helps w/ the absorption of protein.

Davidelmo
12-26-2005, 01:43 PM
Bacteria also break down some of the fibre and release energy too, so don't forget to include it.

Imagine how nasty things will get in your GI tract if you're putting so much food in and it's not coming out!

hngacurv
12-27-2005, 06:18 PM
Please expound if you would. Complete vs imcomplete protein matters, but if your getting excess protein (as most people here are) then I highly doubt BV and type is going to make a significant difference.

Newbs tend to worry about the small stuff way too much.
For those that don't know BV describes the total amount of amino acid profiles from a particular source. One source might be high in glutamine, leucine, but very low in arginine. Another source might be high in arginine, but lack everything else. True, you can compensate for this by eating tons more than needed, but then you run into the problem of eating too many calories. Too much protein will turn to sugar then to stored fat. Granted, not as easily as fat gets stored or carbs convert to sugar to fat, but it does happen. Besides, why would you want to eat twice the protein from beans, wheat, or rice that you can get with half that in eggs, milk, or whey?

BTW, I do agree with you in the fact that "Newbs tend to worry about the small stuff way too much."

Vegilles
01-01-2006, 02:13 AM
...... I have whey protein powder, soy nuts etc as a protein source too but am I limiting my gains because I dont eat a meat dish every day?

Definately not limiting gains, as you can see in my sig. below I've put on 30lbs in 5 months with no fish or meat in my diet. Eat as you see fit, but to answer your question 'No'..... IF you are eating from other equally nutritious sources.
Other great sources of protein and weight gaining food is whole wheat pasta, oats, whole wheat bread, tofu once in a while [ not recommended as a staple], navy-kidney beans; and not a big protein source but I find it a bit of a 'bulker' in good amounts is cauliflower [2 per week]..... Roman gladiators are now said to have mostly lived off barley and beans in their diet to bulk themselves up into swarthy fighters.
Why eat whole wheat / beans? - Great sources of fibre = healthy.

Vapour Trails
01-02-2006, 03:07 PM
Just a foot note: There really is no such thing as complete and incomplete proteins. With the noteable expection of gelatin, 99.9% of proteins contain all 20 standard amino acids, just in differing quantities. This is the amino acid profile of a protein.

Meat is probably the best protein source for muscle building, because it's amino acid profile would most closely mirror your own muscle tissue's profile, because after all, it's muscle you are eating.

TheGimp
01-02-2006, 03:55 PM
Just a foot note: There really is no such thing as complete and incomplete proteins. With the noteable expection of gelatin, 99.9% of proteins contain all 20 standard amino acids, just in differing quantities. This is the amino acid profile of a protein.

Exactly.

Take 100g of green lettuce as an example (data taken from USDA National Nutrient Databasep (http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/)):

Amino acids
Tryptophan g 0.009
Threonine g 0.059
Isoleucine g 0.084
Leucine g 0.079
Lysine g 0.084
Methionine g 0.016
Cystine g 0.016
Phenylalanine g 0.055
Tyrosine g 0.032
Valine g 0.070
Arginine g 0.071*
Histidine g 0.022*
Alanine g 0.056
Aspartic acid g 0.142
Glutamic acid g 0.182
Glycine g 0.057
Proline g 0.048
Serine g 0.039

Essential amino acids in bold.

* Essential in children only.

I wouldn't toss out the whey just yet but it's certainly not incomplete.

Davidelmo
01-02-2006, 05:01 PM
Thanks for the informative replies guys :)