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Optimum08
01-26-2006, 05:08 PM
Let me give you a background, i have currently been lifting hard for about 2.5-3 years and have made some pretty good gains (i was naturally pretty muscular and strong) and have been considering switching to Westside from my current bodybuilding-type lifting routine. I am not really plateau-ing or anything i've just been reading up on Westside and how it can be very beneficial for football players (im going to be playing college ball next season). I've done a search and read how Westside was not for novice lifters/skinny guys and i don't feel im a novice, and i know im not a skinny guy.

Stats:
Height: 6'0''
Weight: 230 Lbs.

Maxes:
Bench: 315 Approx.
Squat: 410 Approx.
Deadlift: 410 Approx.

Would i be a candidate to switch to Westside and would it be beneficial for football enough to switch from my routine now?

If needed i can give you an example of my current routine.

Paul Stagg
01-26-2006, 05:22 PM
Sure.

Optimum08
01-26-2006, 05:25 PM
Do you think i am "qualified" for it and that it will assist in more football related strength?

Paul Stagg
01-26-2006, 05:27 PM
Sure.

:)

Optimum08
01-26-2006, 06:35 PM
haha thanks Paul...i'll probably post my modified (for football)style westside up here this weekend to be critiqued...

SW
01-26-2006, 06:58 PM
I'd say you're good for it. It's possible to make huge gains in a short amount of time with it, and to use that drive through your legs and out your hands to destroy someone on the field.

drew
01-26-2006, 07:58 PM
What they said.

Optimum08
01-29-2006, 02:10 PM
any legit substitues for reverse hypers? cuz i work out at my high school weightroom and it gets the job done, but no reverse hyper "machine"...

Optimum08
01-29-2006, 02:11 PM
i have good mornings instead of the glute-ham raises as an assistance exercise...

Optimum08
01-29-2006, 02:46 PM
Here is what i have come up with as my modified WS (for football) if you guys have any better ideas for exercises better related to football or just better ones that you have experienced let me know...

Sunday - ME Squat/Deadlift
ME exercise - ME Squats - work up to triple then to single
Assistance - Good Mornings - 5 sets of 8-10 reps
Abs - Standing abs - 4 sets of 8-12
Obliques - Dumbbell side bends - 3 sets of 4-8 reps
Sub for Reverse Hypers?

Tuesday - DE Bench
DE Bench - 8 sets of 3 reps at 60% of 315
Pressing movement - DB Incline Bench - 3 sets of 5
Extension - Bent Over Cable Tri Extension - 3 sets of 6-10 reps
Lat work - Bent over rows (DB or BB) - 4 sets of 5-8 reps
Shoulder work - A few light sets of side laterals and front raises

Thursday - DE squat
DE squat - 10 sets of 2 reps at 50% of 410
DE deadlift - 6 singles of 60% of 410
Assistance - Zercher squats - 5 sets of 6-8 reps
Abs - Decline sit-ups with 5 second pause at bottom - 4 sets of 8-12 reps
Obliques - Dumbbell side bends - 3 sets of 4-8 reps
Sub for Reverse Hypers?

Friday - ME bench
ME exercise - ME Bench - work up to max single
Pressing movement - Close Grip Bench - 3 sets of 5
Extension - Standing DB Tri Extension - 3 sets of 6-10
Lat work - Front Pulldowns - 4 sets of 5-8
Light shoulder work

A Couple quick questions...on all the auxiliary movements do i increase weight every set or stay at the same weight for all the sets? and how frequently should i change the ME exercise? like should i stick with ME squat for a couple weeks then go to ME Deadlift? or longer?

Thanks for all the help...

MixmasterNash
01-29-2006, 03:10 PM
I see little reason to use westside as a preparation routine for sports. There is no evidence that it will prepare you for better on-field performance.

There are certain Westside principles that may applicable for football training (or any sport, for that matter), but the overall program structure, especially the focus lifts, are not especially suited to a(n) (off season) football program.

As Alwyn Csogrove eloquently stated, "It is often said by futurists (those who study the past to predict the future) that there is an over-reaction to most new concepts in the short term, yet an under-reaction in the long term. ... However, never has this concept been more apparent than in the strength and conditioning industry, particularly in recent years." Westside is one of those concepts where we currently see a strong swing towards the overreaction side of the pendulum. Westside for powerlifting. Westside for bodybuilding. Westside for football. Westside for curling.

If you're going to pick a somewhat arbitrary focus for a prepation program, something like strongman work + speed work would almost certainly be better.

Optimum08
01-29-2006, 03:33 PM
mixmaster...i totally understand where your coming from...and i will be doing speed worka anyway in addition to whatever new split i choose, but i believe anything will be better than the bodybuilding focused split that i am training with now. If you have any websites outlining a "split" related to strongman work i would gladly look into that, but i feel that right now, Westside would be a good option for me, if not for any reason than to try something new. (i have been on the same split more or less for the 2.5-3 years)

Rex
01-29-2006, 03:57 PM
I agree with Nash; though the Westside for Curling sounds sweet.

MixmasterNash
01-29-2006, 04:02 PM
i believe anything will be better than the bodybuilding focused split that i am training with now.

I concur! It is also good to change after such a long period on one program.

You obviously understand the importance of speed/running/agility work. However, this is one problem with westside! I don't see any reason to be doing dynamic lower work in addition to sprints, plyo, agility drills, etc. Basically, lift heavy in the gym for strength and hypertrophy, and spend your speed work doing sport specific stuff. If you do want to work on dynamic stuff in the gym, I would use olympic lifts, not speed work on powerlifts. You'll probably want more upper body pulling as well, for balance.

SW
01-29-2006, 05:23 PM
I see little reason to use westside as a preparation routine for sports. There is no evidence that it will prepare you for better on-field performance.


ME and DE squat days have increased my 50yd dash nicely.

Optimum: I'd add in power cleans in before my GM's. Otherwise, looking good.

Optimum08
01-29-2006, 07:07 PM
well mixmaster i could modify the WS to include more pulling...but i think i am going to try it for at least a month and see how i do...any other pulling exercises u recommend me to add?

Optimum08
01-30-2006, 04:27 PM
Just wanted to update...the first day of WS...ME Squat day...and i reached a new PR...440 x 1 legit...i am very happy...and i know it wasn't because of WS but still...

Optimum08
01-31-2006, 05:53 PM
Another question, if i did Squats for my ME exercise this week, do i change it to deadlift next week or keep squats for like 3 weeks?

drew
01-31-2006, 08:08 PM
It's really up to you. As long as you don't stick with the same movement for more than 3 weeks straight, you should be fine. A good way to find out is to max on squats for three straight weeks. If you get a new max on the second week, and then again on the third, then stick with the three week wave. If you go down in weight on the third week, stick to two. If you can't repeat the same max on week two, then stick with one.

Optimum08
02-06-2006, 06:50 PM
anyway to incorporate OH Squats into my WS? would it go ME Squat or DE Squat?

drew
02-06-2006, 06:52 PM
ME squat. Or do them as an accessory.

BigRic
02-06-2006, 06:56 PM
You goin to university to play football?

Optimum08
02-06-2006, 07:36 PM
maybe...if i do it will most likely be at Washington University in St. Louis...

Optimum08
02-17-2006, 11:24 PM
drew(or anyone else)...so if i just finished a three week cycle of squats and had my max increase from 440-455-465...i should move on to deadlift for an ME exercise?

Optimum08
02-18-2006, 10:16 AM
and when doing deadlift as the ME exercise...should/can i still use good mornings as an assistance?

drew
02-18-2006, 10:31 AM
You can move to deadlift as your ME exercise. You may want to do rack pulls instead, as full ROM deads are very taxing, but it's up to you. I wouldn't do full ROM deads for more than 2 weeks. A 3rd week will probably kill you.

And yes, you can still do GMs as an assistance exercise. I often use them on my DE and ME days and do anywhere from 50-70% of my max for 5-10 reps at whatever number of sets suits me that day.

Optimum08
02-19-2006, 11:15 PM
i think im going to do full ROM deads for at least one week just to see where my max is at...then i'll either do them again for week two or go to rack pulls...but for rack pulls do u want the weight starting at about knee height? higher? lower?

drew
02-20-2006, 06:14 PM
You can start the weight anywhere for rack pulls. Just keep track of the position of the weight and how much you lift, so you can track your progress. If you know where you're weakest in the deadlift, then that point or just before it may be a good place to start (For example, I'm weak just at the knees, so I would rack pull from about an inch below my knees to try and strengthen that portion of the lift)

Sensei
02-20-2006, 06:15 PM
I think most people will be weakest at rack pulls starting just below the knee.

Optimum08
02-20-2006, 08:01 PM
ya it was the bottom portion of the lift that caused me the most trouble today...from the ground to about the knees and through the knees...i got 435 up althought it wasn't all that smooth of a rep...