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threatmix
02-07-2006, 03:03 PM
I was wondering if I could still reap the benefits of a refeed while cutting while staying in ketosis. That is, refeeding on fat and protein. I know that one of the points of the refeed is to refill muscle glycogen, but if I could still get the benefits regarding metabolism and leptin levels and whatnot. Any thoughts?

TheGimp
02-08-2006, 06:14 AM
What is your motivation for staying in ketosis during a refeed?

EDIT: You should also bear in mind that sufficient protein intake can kick you out of ketosis due to gluconeogensis thus, I would postulate, rendering such an endeavour impossible

threatmix
02-08-2006, 07:18 AM
Well, I prefer using fats as fuel rather than carbohydrates and I'd rather not deal with carbs all together. I'm following an evolution-based diet, but that's secondary.

You've got a point about the protein. Maybe refeed on fats, then?

malkore
02-08-2006, 11:50 AM
From all i know about ketosis, it's not something you should be staying on for extended periods. I believe the whole purpose of re-feeding is to take in carbs for energy to get rid of the ketones the body creates while in ketosis.

Are you jsut screwing around with your body or is this a diet a doctor/nutrionist is aware of and advocating? I'm just curious if you'll be able to file a lawsuit against anyone if/when the SHTF.

Pup
02-08-2006, 01:25 PM
Are you familiar with what is actually happening to your body during periods of low carb depletion?

The whole point of a refeed is to not only affect leptin levels, but to increase insulin and decrease glucagon. The insulin surge is important for supercompensation (which allows you to build some lbm during a diet)...if you train with any level of intensity, you need to have CHO based refeeds, otherwise your training is going to suck. There is also the issue of thyroid suppression from long periods of low calorie carbohydrate restriction...fat loading on a ketogenic type diet just doesn't make much sense IMO.

Malkore...ketones aren't evil...ketoacidosis happens usually in diabetics, not in healthy individuals...like i said above, refeeds happen to refill glycogen and take advantage of the anabolic properties of insulin.

Manveet
02-08-2006, 01:34 PM
Take Pup's advice, just do a regular refeed and you will be fine (if not better).

Shao-LiN
02-09-2006, 11:55 PM
Although the refeed has mental benefits, it's not there just so you can stick to the diet. There's a whole purpose to refilling muscle glycogen.

eatit
02-10-2006, 11:17 AM
Anyone know where i could get good info on how to structure a proper clean refeed?

preferably for free.

edit: the info for free that is. Not the food for free... though that would be ideal :p

threatmix
02-10-2006, 02:06 PM
Although the refeed has mental benefits, it's not there just so you can stick to the diet. There's a whole purpose to refilling muscle glycogen.

I realize that. But my original question was, are there physiological benefits of a refeed other than refilling muscle glycogen? That is, effects independent of carbohydrate intake, but rather dependent on increased caloric intake in general.

Pup
02-10-2006, 02:38 PM
Aside from the leptin increase...no

A proper CKD is a 70%+ fat diet during the week, so fat loading does very little. Only exception is if you are doing an SKD (this is similar to atkins)...a once a week increase in calories would help the leptin output, especially once you were in a severe calorie deficit towards the end of a dieting phase.

brickt.
02-10-2006, 03:17 PM
Good CKD info.

www.c-k-d.com
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/forumdisplay.php?f=61 (Never fear, all the morons stay out of the Keto forum)

malkore
02-10-2006, 04:32 PM
pup, thanks for the info. ketosis still doesn't appeal to me, but I was pretty sure the refeed was supposed to include carbs, since the rest of the diet pretty much revolves around protein and fat as sole macronutrient sources.