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View Full Version : Can I ever lose bodyfat this way?



WildCard
02-17-2006, 09:55 PM
I weight train 3x a week and cardio 3x a week

My bodyfat % has gone down some in the last couple of months but it is still high.

thing is, I looked at my fitday for the last two weeks and I eat more FAT than anything.

44% calories from fat
29% from carbs
27% from protein

Is this much fat intake working against me losing bodyfat? I have read about cutting and they mostly mention restricting carbs and I have pretty much done that.

Any input is welcome.

Built
02-17-2006, 09:59 PM
No - that's fine. My fats today were 50% of total calories.

Would you like to try carb cycling?

Tell me your LBM and your cutting calories. I'll suggest a breakdown for you.

Shao-LiN
02-17-2006, 10:03 PM
Cutting involves calorie restriction. Although carb cycling is a method of cutting, it is not the only way. You can lose weight eating equal ratios of everything if you wanted. In the end, it will come down to caloric deficit.

Some things to aim for, though:

1. 1 gram of protein per pound of bodyweight
2. (Built's favorite) 0.5 grams of fat per pound of bodyweight.

Fill the rest in with whatever you please.

In any event, it's hard to tell you what you're doing wrong. What is your weight, bodyfat%, how many calories are you taking in per day? What kind of weight training routine are you following? How much cardio are you doing per day?

Built
02-17-2006, 10:06 PM
I absolutely agree with Shao-LiN - the thing I like about carb cycling is that it's COMFORTABLE, and I get to eat more on lifting days so it's motivating.

It is NOT the only way to diet. Ultimately, you have to burn more than you consume, and you have to trick your body into keeping the muscle it would MUCH rather drop.

If you can stay comfortable, you'll have better success with caloric restriction.

And you DO, of course, have to drop calories as your cut progresses.

Dammit.

WildCard
02-17-2006, 10:11 PM
No - that's fine. My fats today were 50% of total calories.

Would you like to try carb cycling?

Tell me your LBM and your cutting calories. I'll suggest a breakdown for you.

great. Its good to know that I can eat that much fat. I had three cheat days last week that hurt me BAD. I would figuratively kill for abs like yours. Up until two minutes ago(from reading another thread) I did not know the abs in the avatar belonged to a woman.

anyhow, I am 6-5 252lbs, and accumeasure says I am 11.7%bf ( I dont believe it) I think I am more like 14%. So, lets say I am 14%bf, and my goal is to be at 9%.

LBM 216 lbs

I try to not go over 3k cals a day, but the cheat days have brought my 2 week average to 3629, and in that time I have lost net 1.0 lb. I am open to any and all suggestions.

WildCard
02-17-2006, 10:25 PM
by the way, here is what I look like. I am saying 14% bf. I hope I am not more than that.
http://metroplexdeals.com/Overtime/Photo_020806_002.jpg

http://metroplexdeals.com/Overtime/Photo_020806_001.jpg
http://metroplexdeals.com/Overtime/Photo_020806_003.jpg
http://metroplexdeals.com/Overtime/Photo_021606_001.jpg

brickt.
02-17-2006, 10:37 PM
50% fats is ****ing awesome, duder. I'm at 40%.

WildCard
02-17-2006, 10:40 PM
50% fats is ****ing awesome, duder. I'm at 40%.

sweet. Lots of pork patties, eggs, and milk

is that avatar actually you? wouldnot want to run into that person in a dark alley, or a lit one for that matter.

Clifford Gillmore
02-17-2006, 10:43 PM
by the way, here is what I look like. I am saying 14% bf. I hope I am not more than that.


I'd say you a bit higher than 14%, possible 16%. But thats going solely on the definition between you delt and bi/tri, I could be wrong.

Built
02-17-2006, 11:05 PM
Wildcard - thanks for the props!

My abs don't quite look like that at the moment, but they will again next cut.

:)

Now, you.

Okay, based on what you've told me, and reverse engineering a bit, it looks like you have maintenance calories of about 3800. A 20% drop brings you down to about 3000, which is what you've been trying to maintain.

How about this:

LBM = 216.72 lbs.
Maintenance calories: 3800 per day.
A caloric deficit of 5320 calories per week,
for a loss of of 1.52 pounds per week

Average daily macros:
257g of protein,
144g of fat, and
179g of carbohydrate,
3,040 calories in total.

Lifting/HIIT days:
282g of protein,
119g of fat, and
275g of carbohydrate,
3,301 calories in total.

Rest/SS Cardio days:
238g of protein,
163g of fat, and
107g of carbohydrate,
2,845 calories in total.


You'll get higher cals on lifting days, which should afford you some dietary flexibility on those days (think: "little cheats" on those days), and higher fats for the lower calorie non-lifting days.

I suggest timing starchy/sugary carbs to the meal before and the meal after you lift, protein and fat for the rest of your meals. Try to get in at least 30-35g of fiber every day - so lots of broccoli, green beans, avocado ...

Sound do-able?

WildCard
02-17-2006, 11:16 PM
sounds very good, thanks. I agree with everything especially dropping the carbs except for pre/post workout.

I'll track it in fitday for two weeks and let everyone know how it goes. This time I'll try not to cheat.

Built
02-17-2006, 11:21 PM
You may find it easier to not cheat with this - you get higher cals three days a week.

Feel free to play with the macros and even the calorie split - I've given you a baseline to fiddle with.

And if you feel a cheat coming on - PLAN for it. Have it on a heavy lifting day, like leg day - half the cheat before, half after. You'll have a GREAT workout.

Plan one every two weeks to start.

Sound manageable?

Con
02-18-2006, 05:15 AM
planned cheat day every too weeks huh? :hump:
That means(for some reason this looks like I spelt this wrong) im due for one soon :burger:

And built while you in here giving out advise I was just wondering about a few details. I now workout days are more carbs but they are for starchy carbs, so maybe having an apple earlier on before I work out is not good?

Another question...Ive heard there are some starchy veggies, do you know of the main ones?

Last question(I promise). Are pilates effective, I was messing around with them the other morning and was wondering if you know if they are actually effective.

And back on topic...gl wildcard, if your anything like me you will look forward to the days you workout because you get a nice filling meal after working out :D

WildCard
02-18-2006, 06:36 AM
You may find it easier to not cheat with this - you get higher cals three days a week.

Feel free to play with the macros and even the calorie split - I've given you a baseline to fiddle with.

And if you feel a cheat coming on - PLAN for it. Have it on a heavy lifting day, like leg day - half the cheat before, half after. You'll have a GREAT workout.

Plan one every two weeks to start.

Sound manageable?

My three day cheat was brought on by overdieting. It was bad. I did very well the night before and only ate 2600 cals, then I tried to repeat that the next day, and by the time the craving kicked in, it was too late. so I went buckwild and ended up eating 6500 cals :shock: the next day, to try to make up, I only ate 2200 cals. BIG MISTAKE. Led to another 2 days of cheating. You would think that I would know not to do this stuff after losing 60 lbs in 6 months on 2004. At my biggest I was 282lbs.

saturday is a bad day usually for me. I usually work till the gym is closed, and my job feeds us on saturday. Good, healthy ,fattneing food too - italian, pizza(italian) etc so it is extremely hard to stay on track. I think what i'll do is make sure I eat a big low carb breakfast before I go in.

WildCard
02-18-2006, 06:37 AM
I'd say you a bit higher than 14%, possible 16%. But thats going solely on the definition between you delt and bi/tri, I could be wrong.

16%. Who knows. I could be. I hope not though. In that case my goal would be to get to 10% bodyfat.

WildCard
02-18-2006, 09:39 PM
built,
I was reading the example diet in your sig, and I have two questions

1. why do you need protein in the meal before workout? I would imagine one would reserve all the calories for energy, ie carbs

2. on a cutting diet, why are carbs necessary AFTER the workout. I would think that one would want to stay away from carbs after the workout so the body has a chance to burn fat.

Built
02-18-2006, 09:48 PM
planned cheat day every too weeks huh? :hump:
That means(for some reason this looks like I spelt this wrong) im due for one soon :burger:

And built while you in here giving out advise I was just wondering about a few details. I now workout days are more carbs but they are for starchy carbs, so maybe having an apple earlier on before I work out is not good?
Apple before is perfectly fine.



Another question...Ive heard there are some starchy veggies, do you know of the main ones?
Don't lose too much sleep on this - just look at how it breaks down for carb on fitday and plan accordingly




Last question(I promise). Are pilates effective, I was messing around with them the other morning and was wondering if you know if they are actually effective.
No frigging clue. Never did any. I just lift, walk, and occasionally go for a hike or a bike ride. Sorry.



And back on topic...gl wildcard, if your anything like me you will look forward to the days you workout because you get a nice filling meal after working out :D
You and me both! ;) :burger:


built,
I was reading the example diet in your sig, and I have two questions

1. why do you need protein in the meal before workout? I would imagine one would reserve all the calories for energy, ie carbs
I don't like to eat meals that don't have protein in 'em. And my feeling is that it's probably a good idea to have a ready supply of amino acids and glucose for the damage you'll inflict while lifting. If your pre-workout nutrition is in order, your post workout nutrition probably needn't be whey and dextrose - it can be something solid and slower - far more satisfying on a cut.

That's how it works in my little mind, at any rate.




2. on a cutting diet, why are carbs necessary AFTER the workout. I would think that one would want to stay away from carbs after the workout so the body has a chance to burn fat.

This is interesting as hell - I used to think this way too.

The best success I've had in body recomposition has happened since I learned to separate out what diet and exercise do.

I no longer try to "burn off fat".

I diet to lose WEIGHT, and I lift heavy to convince my body to hang onto the metabolically expensive muscle it would rather toss.

A little strategic cardio can allow me a little more dietary freedom while I cut.

So I no longer worry about interrupting fat-burning.

Make sense?

Utopianhopes
02-18-2006, 09:53 PM
Make sense?

I got no clue what you just said lady!

For the simple minded (http://www.muscletech.com/NUTRITION/HIGH_PERFORMANCE_NUTRITION/ISSUE_2/index.shtml)

WildCard
02-18-2006, 11:11 PM
I got no clue what you just said lady!

For the simple minded (http://www.muscletech.com/NUTRITION/HIGH_PERFORMANCE_NUTRITION/ISSUE_2/index.shtml)

me either.

so, built, how do carbs after workout help in dietting?

WildCard
02-18-2006, 11:18 PM
For the simple minded (http://www.muscletech.com/NUTRITION/HIGH_PERFORMANCE_NUTRITION/ISSUE_2/index.shtml)

is that jay cutler???

it is extremely hard for me to take nutrition advice from one whose most important nutrient is the huge amount of STEROIDS he injests on a daily basis.

Clifford Gillmore
02-19-2006, 12:20 AM
is that jay cutler???

it is extremely hard for me to take nutrition advice from one whose most important nutrient is the huge amount of STEROIDS he injests on a daily basis.


Thats a terrible mentallity. Simply because he uses AAS doesn't mean he doesn't know his stuff. Look at Milos, a fantastic knowledge of dieting - And I'll guess he's done his fair share of Test too. I'd rather take nutritional advice from someone at competition level on every form of anabolics than some person walking down the street who has just read an atkins book.

Built
02-19-2006, 02:19 AM
me either.

so, built, how do carbs after workout help in dietting?

Carbs are to feed and protect the muscle. After training, you have preferential nutrient partitioning - that means you'll shuttle your calories toward muscle repair rather than fat storage. Since you cut calories to drop weight and lift heavy to protect LBM, you'll want to feed those muscles when they most need it - after wrecking 'em at the gym. Carb stimulates an insulin response, and I understand that the insulin response shuts down cortisol. Vitamin C and other antioxidants would be well-placed at this time as well.

Utopianhopes
02-19-2006, 08:10 PM
is that jay cutler???

it is extremely hard for me to take nutrition advice from one whose most important nutrient is the huge amount of STEROIDS he injests on a daily basis.

I hope you spend some time reading around here, broaden your views of AAS.

WildCard
02-19-2006, 10:18 PM
I hope you spend some time reading around here, broaden your views of AAS.

I am guessing AAS means testosterone, but what does AAS stand for?

edit: never mind, I found it. it means Androgenic-Anabolic Steroids.

from your post, you sound pro Steroids. Is this correct?

brickt.
02-19-2006, 10:48 PM
I'm pro steroids, but I don't use them.

Steroids just got a bad press release and now the world thinks that if you take them, you'll immediately get ebola or something.

Optimum08
02-19-2006, 11:32 PM
is that jay cutler???

it is extremely hard for me to take nutrition advice from one whose most important nutrient is the huge amount of STEROIDS he injests on a daily basis.

i would discount this link more just because its muscle tech moreso than it being jay cutler...

Optimum08
02-19-2006, 11:34 PM
I'm pro steroids, but I don't use them.

Steroids just got a bad press release and now the world thinks that if you take them, you'll immediately get ebola or something.

i am also pro-steroids, it has just recieved a lot of bad press, i.e. if praying recieved this much bad press than everyone would stop doing that too....if you know what your doing with AAS (knowing cycles, dosages, times etc.) you can reap the benefits without all of the horrifying side effects, obviously there are going to be some but not as bad as portrayed...

Utopianhopes
02-20-2006, 07:09 AM
i would discount this link more just because its muscle tech moreso than it being jay cutler...

Heh.. I have more sources with the same information just happen muscle tech was the preferred article for understanding.


The High-Octane Refuel- Resistance training can be heavily reliant on muscle glycogen and carbohydrate for fuel (14), while intense interval training can be even more taxing on the body's carbohydrate reserves (15). Therefore, during and after the training bouts are the most opportune times to capitalize on excellent insulin sensitivity and enhanced glucose uptake where you desire it most: skeletal muscles (16). Here's where individual differences strongly come into play; this portion of the plan needs to be altered according to one's training and physique goals, as carbohydrate recommendations are going to be vital to achieve optimal results.

Read More (http://ruggedmag.com/index.php?type=Article&i=2&a=6)




from your post, you sound pro Steroids. Is this correct?

The Human body produces around 80mg of test, while someone on AAS can have up to 400mg of test injected inside them. To get optimal results from AAS the person would still have to train and eat properly like the person not using any (this is how I interpret it). I have very little knowledge on the subject so I stay neutral.