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Organichu
02-20-2006, 08:58 PM
I've been holding off on posting my results because of an unfortunate event; a short time into my cut, my sister dropped my camera out of a moving car. Since then, I've investigated having it fixed to recover the data from it. Unfortunately, it was damaged irreparably so I have no photographs of this journey.

When I eventually get a new camera, I'll provide after shots. This dissapoints me, I'd hoped to increase the shocking results I had with photographic validation.

Anyway, this is what I achieved:

I went on a twelve week PSMF stint with one refeed.

The twist? I used only Nitrean, almost every single day. One day a week I had a lb of chicken breast with some auxiliary Nitrean. I did not cheat once.

About six to seven weeks in, I had a refeed to refill my glycogen stores and reset some metabolic functions.

Before:
244 lbs
BF%: 35
Fat mass: 85.4 lbs
Lean body mass: 158.6 lbs

After:
184 lbs
BF%: 16
Fat mass: 29.5 lbs
Lean body mass:154.56 lbs

DIFFERENCE:
-60 lbs
BF%: -19
Fat mass: -55.9 lbs
Lean body mass: ~-4.1 lbs

I lost 60 lbs, of which a staggering 93 percent was fat.

I would not recommend this diet to most. Most people would not be able to step back into healthy eating habits after a prolonged all liquid diet.

That said, Nitrean was incredible. It satisfied my hunger far better than any protein supplement I've tried. It was also very palatable, and easy to ingest. I attribute a vast degree of my success to Nitrean. It's an incredible product.

Thank you for all of the help, AtLarge.

Davidelmo
02-20-2006, 09:53 PM
Insane... you lost 56lbs of fat and 4lbs muscle... that's ridiculous

Organichu
02-20-2006, 09:56 PM
Yup!

I had a lot of high quality protein, and I lifted heavy. I also felt like I gained 20 lbs of muscle during my refeed haha.

Optimum08
02-20-2006, 10:02 PM
i've wanted to try a PSMF before spring break...but would it be worth it? with lifting and going to school for 7 hours?

Organichu
02-20-2006, 10:12 PM
i've wanted to try a PSMF before spring break...but would it be worth it? with lifting and going to school for 7 hours?

Including transit time for all of these activities, I was: going to school for 44 hours every week, working for 45 hours every week, lifting for 7 hours every week, and sleeping for 56 hours every week.

Of my "free" awake time, I managed to prepare my shakes, have fun, not die.

I'm not sure of your question- if you're a busy person, is it easy to PSMF? Definitely.

Phelon
02-20-2006, 10:28 PM
Awesome results man. My next protein supp. Will be nitrean. Does it taste good?

Organichu
02-20-2006, 10:34 PM
Awesome results man. My next protein supp. Will be nitrean. Does it taste good?

Though I disagree with the opinions that it tastes like an incredible, epicurean godsend, it is definitely by FAR the best tasting protein shake I've ever had.

It tastes what I'd call "decent". I wouldn't buy it solely for its taste, but it's definitely a pleasant flavor.

It tastes, to me, sort of like ovaltine. Good stuff.

Phelon
02-20-2006, 10:37 PM
That sounds good. I will be getting that after i run out of my pm protein!

Organichu
02-20-2006, 10:41 PM
Oh, and I should be clear that I haven't stopped taking Nitrean. I'm very near the end of my supply and will be ordering more soon to complement my bulk! :)

Phelon
02-20-2006, 10:44 PM
Stuff must be good. I need to get the money to get some!

Built
02-20-2006, 10:48 PM
That's amazing!

Looking forward to some progress pix bud!

Organichu
02-20-2006, 10:56 PM
Thanks, Built.

Your approval is definitely one that means a lot to me. :)

Built
02-20-2006, 11:00 PM
Well, that's astonishing results, and good to hear confirmed that Nitrean is more satisfying than whey - I've avoided whey for cutting for this very reason. I may re-think my strategy next cut.

Organichu
02-20-2006, 11:02 PM
Yeah, the whey I tried really early on in my fitness career was.. ugh. Not pleasant in any way, and not satiating at all. I'd starve, and that was with rregular food, too..

Phelon
02-20-2006, 11:02 PM
once again, nice results. congrats

Built
02-20-2006, 11:04 PM
My current whey usage is STRICTLY during workouts. It makes me too damned hungry otherwise.

Organichu
02-20-2006, 11:13 PM
Thanks again.

For anyone interested, my workouts were fairly fluid. I changed them depending on the way I felt.

However, I must say that for being severely hypocaloric, I felt pretty good the vast majority of this cut.

The first few days I had stomach trouble, and a bit of lethargy. This continued for less than a week. Eventually I felt fine, and stayed that way almost constantly.

I started to feel worn down around week six, and that's why I chose to refeed at that point.

Normally my workouts were like this:

Day 1:
medium rep, medium weight upper body
off lower body

Day 2:
off upper body
medium rep, medium weight lower body

Day 3:
low rep, high weight upper body
off lower body

Day 4:
off upper body
low rep, high weight lower body


About nine or ten weeks in, the consistent two days of circa maximal effort a week started to wear on me, and I went all medium.

Optimum08
02-20-2006, 11:26 PM
would a PSMF be effective at all for a short time (say 2 weeks)?

this is actually the way i wanted to structure my last question...given that limited amount of time would it even be worth it to try a PSMF to cut some of the fat for 2 weeks?

Organichu
02-20-2006, 11:36 PM
would a PSMF be effective at all for a short time (say 2 weeks)?

this is actually the way i wanted to structure my last question...given that limited amount of time would it even be worth it to try a PSMF to cut some of the fat for 2 weeks?

Oh yeah, absolutely. PSMF is really structured as a short-term diet for the biggest "wow" effect. If you're preparing for an aesthetic pissing contest (Spring Break), you'll love PSMF.

It'll drain you of water, it'll shed fat fast, and in the first two weeks it's unlikely to trim much (if ANY) lbm.

You can reevaluate your situation very well (and look much better) after a two week PSMF cycle.

DavyRen
02-21-2006, 05:37 AM
I've been holding off on posting my results because of an unfortunate event; a short time into my cut, my sister dropped my camera out of a moving car. Since then, I've investigated having it fixed to recover the data from it. Unfortunately, it was damaged irreparably so I have no photographs of this journey.

When I eventually get a new camera, I'll provide after shots. This dissapoints me, I'd hoped to increase the shocking results I had with photographic validation.

Anyway, this is what I achieved:

I went on a twelve week PSMF stint with one refeed.

The twist? I used only Nitrean, almost every single day. One day a week I had a lb of chicken breast with some auxiliary Nitrean. I did not cheat once.

About six to seven weeks in, I had a refeed to refill my glycogen stores and reset some metabolic functions.

Before:
244 lbs
BF%: 35
Fat mass: 85.4 lbs
Lean body mass: 158.6 lbs

After:
184 lbs
BF%: 16
Fat mass: 29.5 lbs
Lean body mass:154.56 lbs

DIFFERENCE:
-60 lbs
BF%: -19
Fat mass: -55.9 lbs
Lean body mass: ~-4.1 lbs

I lost 60 lbs, of which a staggering 93 percent was fat.

I would not recommend this diet to most. Most people would not be able to step back into healthy eating habits after a prolonged all liquid diet.

That said, Nitrean was incredible. It satisfied my hunger far better than any protein supplement I've tried. It was also very palatable, and easy to ingest. I attribute a vast degree of my success to Nitrean. It's an incredible product.

Thank you for all of the help, AtLarge.

Great article mate. Like yourself i've had shakes in the past that were disgusting but Nitrean certainly is the best i've had and will stick with it as long as I can afford the postage to the uk.
Currently cutting some bf so your info has certainly given me something else to think about.

Anthony
02-21-2006, 05:45 AM
That is insane. Wow. I wouldn't recommend it, but damn, you pulled this off nicely!!

Davidelmo
02-21-2006, 07:39 AM
How much nitrean did you go through?

MJS
02-21-2006, 07:44 AM
Those results are remarkable. It's a shame you don't have the before pictures. Still an inspiration to all of us. Congrats.

chris mason
02-21-2006, 08:43 AM
Crap! Darn it, I would have paid for that camera!@

chris mason
02-21-2006, 08:46 AM
Oh, and FANTASTIC job!

Thank you for posting your experience as well! Remind me when you next order and I will take care of you in some way.

Can we post this on AtLarge?

Chris

kad
02-21-2006, 09:03 AM
Wow, awesome job! Can't wait to see the results!

Mik
02-21-2006, 09:04 AM
That's incredible. Nice work man.

intargc
02-21-2006, 09:16 AM
Questions...

Was it simply just 6 Nitrean shakes with water a day for 12 weeks? That's all?

Why is this diet not recommended for others?

lifter4life
02-21-2006, 01:52 PM
Organichu from AtLarge > Jared from Subway

Mik
02-21-2006, 02:33 PM
Organichu from AtLarge > Jared from Subway

LMAO!!!!!! They should battle.

chris mason
02-21-2006, 03:52 PM
Organichu would win!

Optimum08
02-21-2006, 04:13 PM
Organichu...about how many cals did u consume on your PSMF a day? i was thinking like 1400-1600 right? and almost all coming from protein powder...

Organichu
02-21-2006, 05:29 PM
Questions...

Was it simply just 6 Nitrean shakes with water a day for 12 weeks? That's all?

I also took an EFA supplement, just for vitality's sake. This added very little to my total calorie intake (less than 100 calories).

Most days I took in six shakes, yes. Sometimes seven. I don't recall going below six more than once or twice. A lot of days, maybe even the majority, I used six and a half scoops.

So I had a good 157 grams of protein most days, some days around 145, some days around 170 grams.


Why is this diet not recommended for others?

I don't mean to speak from a condescending position, but I highly doubt the capability of most people to handle a.) the mental strain during the diet, and b.) the urge to absolutely gorge after the diet.

It's very hard to resume a normal, whole food diet after a shake-only PSMF. It's my personal opinion that most people wouldn't be able to successfully merge into a more sensible diet after such extreme measures.



How much nitrean did you go through?

A LOT. Seven tubs and change.



Organichu...about how many cals did u consume on your PSMF a day? i was thinking like 1400-1600 right? and almost all coming from protein powder...

Fewer calories than that.

:blush:

To be honest, I've always thought that the minimum caloric/protein recommendations err on the side of caution. I figured this would be a good experiment.

I probably had about 800 calories a day. Other than the refeed, I don't think I ever went above 1,000 calories.




Chris: I know! So disappointing! I have before pictures at the same weight and bf%, roughly.. and I can get pictures of my current state whenever I get a new camera. But man, it would have been so much more exciting to have a thorough set of photographs holding a newspaper and all, like I had planned. I even set up an area in my house with nice, natural lighting. Damn.

Sure, you can put this on the site. You don't have to feel the need to be grateful for this testimonial at all.

I wouldn't have gone with Nitrean if I didn't think it to be the best product for my needs. You're a business, I'm a consumer, and goddamn am I happy with our business deals. You truly have offered an incredible product in Nitrean; I think I would have failed (either as a result of extreme hunger, distaste with flavour, difficulty in mixing, etc.- whatever it may be) without it.

I'm very happy to be a customer of AtLarge Nutrition- no hooks up needed!

Though maybe your signature on a tshirt (which I'd pay for) to fit my new frame.. that I'd appreciate. ;)

Optimum08
02-21-2006, 05:41 PM
wow...800 cals? with my frame (230 lbs.) i am presuming i am right around 16-18% or so bf%...would it be effective at 1400 cals for me...i know i can't go below a 1000 or else i would most likely go into starvation mode...not to thread jack but i was thinkin something like this:

8:00-2 scoops Nitrean (all shakes in water)
4 Fish Oil Caps
Multi-Vit
Allergy Medicine

10:00-1 scoop Nitrean

Lunch-3 scoops Nitrean

2:00-1 scoop Nitrean (i would take this scoop either right here or pre-bedtime)
2 vit c chewables

PWO-2 scoops ON 100% Whey
1 tsp. creatine

Dinner-3 scoops Nitrean

Pre-bedtime-1 scoop Nitrean (if i haven't taken this at the 2:00 time period)
4 fish oil caps
2 glucosamine
multi-vit
2 L-lysine

Factoring in the 80 or so cals from the fish oil this would put me at ~1420 cals a day with lots and lots of protein...

Organichu
02-22-2006, 05:43 PM
That gives you ~110 more grams of protein and only 38 more lbs of lbm. Sounds feasible to me.

Optimum08
02-22-2006, 05:55 PM
ya i've kinda researched a bit more...by the way sorry for all the noob questions...and have my breakdown to something like this...1220 cals, 236g. protein, 15.5g fat, 20g carbs....would that classify as a PSMF?

Organichu
02-22-2006, 08:22 PM
ya i've kinda researched a bit more...by the way sorry for all the noob questions...and have my breakdown to something like this...1220 cals, 236g. protein, 15.5g fat, 20g carbs....would that classify as a PSMF?

It's hotly debated what exactly constitutes a PSMF.

PSMF means "Protein Sparing Modified Fast". Essentially, it's a starvation diet; it's modification lies in the fact that it makes certain allowances (plenty of protein, essential fatty acids, some suggested fiber, refeeds, etc.).

These allowances are permitted expressly to preserve lean body mass.

With what you know about our physiology, does it look like it to you?

I think I'd be satisfied with those ratios, if I was a normal dieter.

Then again, my numbers were as close to immaculate as most humans go without medical assistance. :P

Optimum08
02-22-2006, 08:45 PM
It's hotly debated what exactly constitutes a PSMF.

PSMF means "Protein Sparing Modified Fast". Essentially, it's a starvation diet; it's modification lies in the fact that it makes certain allowances (plenty of protein, essential fatty acids, some suggested fiber, refeeds, etc.).

These allowances are permitted expressly to preserve lean body mass.

With what you know about our physiology, does it look like it to you?

I think I'd be satisfied with those ratios, if I was a normal dieter.

Then again, my numbers were as close to immaculate as most humans go without medical assistance. :P

i agree...you must have some amazing self-control/you are kind of crazy haha...i think im going to go on that and hopefully lose some of this excess bf%...i really don't care if its a true PSMF as long as i maintain LBM and lost some body fat...

Manveet
02-22-2006, 10:36 PM
Congrats man!

All shake diets rule!

Btw, you should really post your story over on Lyle's board.

Organichu
02-23-2006, 03:09 AM
Congrats man!

All shake diets rule!

Btw, you should really post your story over on Lyle's board.

Thanks. :)

I might, if I have the time later.


Optimum: good luck, man!

Patz
02-24-2006, 06:02 AM
Wow, dude..I had no idea you went shake-only. I did that for about a month once, and although I stuck to it ok, it was no fun at all. Ugh..

AWESOME results..I think you've motivated me to PSMF again after the asc.

phatmike
02-24-2006, 10:11 PM
Wow bro, I remember doing it for 4 weeks before (the same exact all Nitrean diet). I had similar results (my fat loss being about a third of yours..in a third the time). Excellent job..it takes alot of willpower. Get those pics up.

Mannequin
02-25-2006, 12:24 PM
How did you transition from an all liquid diet to eating a normal diet with solid food?

Organichu
02-25-2006, 01:25 PM
How did you transition from an all liquid diet to eating a normal diet with solid food?

The last day of the diet was one of the days with a chicken breast. The following day, I had two chicken breasts and some broccoli. I then stayed at the same levels of protein but added one half cup of vegetables here and there for a few days.

It took me about two weeks to eat normally again. I had diarrhea the first time I took in the broccoli.

My stomach readjusted relatively quick.

Clifford Gillmore
02-25-2006, 07:47 PM
Thats an amazing effort man! I tried bulking on liquid cals, I couldn't take it.

TwiloMike
02-26-2006, 01:37 PM
Wow, excellent results, young Organichu. Congrats on the fat loss! I'm a huge fan of Nitrean and you're only confirming what I already know about it- the stuff is damn good. :) What's your flavor? Chocolate is mine.

Organichu
02-26-2006, 01:43 PM
Wow, excellent results, young Organichu. Congrats on the fat loss! I'm a huge fan of Nitrean and you're only confirming what I already know about it- the stuff is damn good. :) What's your flavor? Chocolate is mine.

Chocolate. :)

I tried vanilla, and it wasn't bad by any means- but chocolate has a special place in my heart. :D

TwiloMike
02-26-2006, 02:14 PM
I hadn't tried the vanilla yet. I drink it with milk (mix them in a shaker) and the chocolate does the trick.

Holto
02-26-2006, 07:59 PM
Organichu would win!

Yep.

Jared lost significant muscle. He looked unhealthy.

------------------------------------------------------

Organichu: No fiber? At all?

Thats freaky.

Organichu
02-26-2006, 08:03 PM
Organichu: No fiber? At all?

Thats freaky.

Yeah, in retrospect I might have used some just to be cautious with my health (I did excrete less often).

However, a month in and I was doing great; I didn't want to change anything.

brickt.
02-26-2006, 11:03 PM
93% bf reduction? Let me resound a hefty and well deserving, ****.

That is absolutely fantastic progress.

How old are you?

EDIT: 18, as I see in your journal.

Do you live with your parents? If so, how did they react to a 6 shake a day diet? I'm your age, and mine would freak the **** out.

EDIT2: For ****s & giggles, decided to figure out your body composition if your progress had been the other way around, as in, you lost 93% body protein.

You would now stand at approximately:

After:
184 lbs
BF%: 44
Fat mass: 81lbs (-4lb)
Lean body mass:102lbs (-55lb)

You'd also be the poster child for 'Skinnyfat Anonymous.' :):)

Organichu
02-27-2006, 12:00 AM
93% bf reduction? Let me resound a hefty and well deserving, ****.

That is absolutely fantastic progress.

How old are you?

EDIT: 18, as I see in your journal.

Do you live with your parents? If so, how did they react to a 6 shake a day diet? I'm your age, and mine would freak the **** out.

First of all, thanks for the congrats.! It was a lot of hard work.

Secondly: my grandmom was not keen on it. However, I handle the money in the house, I contact contractors for jobs on the house, I set up our yearly vacation etc. I have a lot of burdens being raised by a grandmom who isn't used to living her own life.. so she, for the most part, trusts my judgement.


EDIT2: For ****s & giggles, decided to figure out your body composition if your progress had been the other way around, as in, you lost 93% body protein.

You would now stand at approximately:

After:
184 lbs
BF%: 44
Fat mass: 81lbs (-4lb)
Lean body mass:102lbs (-55lb)

You'd also be the poster child for 'Skinnyfat Anonymous.' :):)

Very, very scary thought! Haha, that's pretty creepy.

Genacide
02-27-2006, 11:22 AM
What supps were you taking while on this diet?
What side effects did you have? (insomnia? run down?)

Natty_Lftr
02-27-2006, 01:49 PM
Also...do you have any loose skin? Please post pics.
I would love to do this, and supplement it with creatine, multivitamins and maybe eat some cereal with alot of fiber in them.

Organichu
02-27-2006, 04:39 PM
What supps were you taking while on this diet?
What side effects did you have? (insomnia? run down?)

I took some fish oil caps, and a generic multivitamin. I took some Excedrine for a migraine (completely unrelated to the PSMF.. they run in the family) and that's about it.





Also...do you have any loose skin? Please post pics.

I have some, yeah. Not an enormous amount, but it's definitely noticeable.

I'll get up pics as soon as I get the opportunity.

Beast
02-27-2006, 05:23 PM
You had absolutely no carbs or fats other than those EFAs the whole time? That's incredible... how did you find the energy to work out or even function?

Organichu
02-27-2006, 05:35 PM
You had absolutely no carbs or fats other than those EFAs the whole time? That's incredible... how did you find the energy to work out or even function?

I cooked those once a week chicken breasts in a little drizzle of E.V.O.O., and that's about the extent of it.

My body somehow.. adapted, I guess. Maybe I'm a freak, I dunno, but the only really rough days were the first few days, and the first few days after the refeed.

The "lost in the desert" diet days were remarkably easy on energy levels. My strength stayed roughly the same with a slight increase in compound movements. Keep in mind, though, that I'd been heavily slacking on working out on this diet.. so muscle memory and C.N.S. adaptation is in place there.

Gutz981
02-27-2006, 05:37 PM
Holy **** dude. I bow to thee. only lost 4.1 pounds of muscle...Taking any fat burners?

Organichu
02-27-2006, 05:51 PM
Holy **** dude. I bow to thee. only lost 4.1 pounds of muscle...Taking any fat burners?

I was planning on taking AtLarge Thermocin, but I felt fine a week in and saw no need to fix an unbroken program.

CASD
02-28-2006, 06:44 AM
I'm also doing the samething.. PSMF and Nitrean with some solid food and I carbup once a week.. Was doing it twice but found that I would hit a alltime low weight and then have to eat...so I was always figthing it.. but I have lost 9lbs in 20 days..so far,
I really beleive in Lyle McDonalds Stuff... but him as a person and his forum suck wind..

Spawn_XX
02-28-2006, 10:46 AM
question on the topic - how would on resume a normal diet/bulk after this? I read several other people asking about this but found no solid answer. wouldn't all the carbs that you'd start consuming on a bulk afterwards just go to fat? or is this something that you would need to sloowly get back on track (up the carbs little by little?)? is this addressed on bodyrecomposition.com? if so I'll make an account and start reading their forums as well.

great progress though, i think its a good way to set up a clean base to build up your body from

Holto
02-28-2006, 03:00 PM
Just a side note:

Taking some EFA pills and fiber pills would make this alot more healthy and also easier to resume a fully solid diet.

Organichu
02-28-2006, 05:00 PM
question on the topic - how would on resume a normal diet/bulk after this? I read several other people asking about this but found no solid answer. wouldn't all the carbs that you'd start consuming on a bulk afterwards just go to fat? or is this something that you would need to sloowly get back on track (up the carbs little by little?)? is this addressed on bodyrecomposition.com? if so I'll make an account and start reading their forums as well.

I'm not sure what you're positing. Why would all carbs be directly partitioned as stored fat?

As I said, I slowly reestablished a "normal" diet. I stayed high protein (>70%) for a few days, and then switched to a 40/30/30 diet (roughly), and just slowly raised the calories.

The primary reason I didn't jump into a decent level of carbs had nothing to do with metabolic inability.. I did it solely to spare my stomach the radical changes.


great progress though, i think its a good way to set up a clean base to build up your body from

Thanks.





Jam: I'm responding to your PM as we speak.





Holto: yeah, good advice. I really should have taken fiber on top of my EFAs; I can't exactly say I regret it, because I managed to come away fine. However, I don't want to promote that sort of regimen. I do suggest that anyone who attempts a radical diet (or any diet, really), should have at least some fiber, and preferably a decent amount, in his/her plan.

Pasha
03-01-2006, 12:37 PM
What exactly is an EFA. did you replace your meals with just Nitreon or Opticen as well?

that is a lot of weight man. Yea I was also wondering how your family must've felt about it. I was talking to my mom and suggested that I was considering this and she said ok, so you want to die?

yea deffinitely get some pics I want to see how much loose skin there is and how much definition you have left.

Veritas
03-01-2006, 03:04 PM
Sooo... If you could do it over, you'd add some fiber to your diet... I'll give it a shot, along w/ some oils and vitamins.

Guess what I'm sacrificing for Lent, or the only thing I'm not; Protein shakes. Do you think 4 Tubs + 1 of Opt would last long enough (~40 Days)?

Note: I'm probably around 175lb 16% BF, maybe a little skinny fat, but pretty lean. I suffered a shoulder injury that kept me from lifting for 8 months. I'm looking to drop my body fat to the 12% level before I start seriously bulking.

Optimum08
03-01-2006, 08:17 PM
Sooo... If you could do it over, you'd add some fiber to your diet... I'll give it a shot, along w/ some oils and vitamins.

Guess what I'm sacrificing for Lent, or the only thing I'm not; Protein shakes. Do you think 4 Tubs + 1 of Opt would last long enough (~40 Days)?

Note: I'm probably around 175lb 16% BF, maybe a little skinny fat, but pretty lean. I suffered a shoulder injury that kept me from lifting for 8 months. I'm looking to drop my body fat to the 12% level before I start seriously bulking.

Not Opticen...a PSMF is a STRICT diet maximizing protein intake while extremely minimizing all other intake. Opticen has too many carbs/cals/everything to be used as the protein for an all-liquid PSMF. Nitrean (what Organichu used) would and does work if you have the dedication. Basically the only fat intake you want is from the protein, and the EFA's and from no where else.

Optimum08
03-01-2006, 08:19 PM
What exactly is an EFA. did you replace your meals with just Nitreon or Opticen as well?

that is a lot of weight man. Yea I was also wondering how your family must've felt about it. I was talking to my mom and suggested that I was considering this and she said ok, so you want to die?

yea deffinitely get some pics I want to see how much loose skin there is and how much definition you have left.

EFA-Essential Fatty Acid, basically fish oil. No, you don't replace meals with it, its a supplement/pill, because you are so limited in cals and thus limited in almost all other macro's besides protein, you use the EFA's to try and keep everything "normal" and as your main fat source during your extreme diet.

Optimum08
03-01-2006, 08:21 PM
Not to sound condescending to anyone, but i really don't think you guys grasp how hard this type of diet is. Organichu is very unique in that he stuck to this diet for so long without cheating, and it takes a lot of self-control/crazyness to complete a diet like this. But this diet is not for the weak-minded. Think about it this way the 800-1000 cals he survived a day with is the equivalent of about 3 bags of Chili Cheese Fritos (in cals) A DAY.

CASD
03-02-2006, 06:43 AM
Not to sound condescending to anyone, but i really don't think you guys grasp how hard this type of diet is. Organichu is very unique in that he stuck to this diet for so long without cheating, and it takes a lot of self-control/crazyness to complete a diet like this. But this diet is not for the weak-minded. Think about it this way the 800-1000 cals he survived a day with is the equivalent of about 3 bags of Chili Cheese Fritos (in cals) A DAY.

You are right it's...VERY HARD by night time your ready to drive down to the local store and buy a ButterFingers..:) That's why I do the recommended 5 hour carbup weekly and it also replenishes your reserves for your workouts..
I also do as recommended in the PSMF book.. Some carbs before lifting and some after.. This isn't really a low carb diet...when Lyle States that you can have unlimited amount of Low GI veggies..
My avg weekly ratio's are: Cals 1018 Pro-172g/68% Carb-39g/13% Fat-21g/18% Fiber-9g
I've lost now 10lbs since the 2nd of Feb I'm more then happy.. Plus I'm not as strict.. If I get a craving that I can't get past.. I have it but a small amount...like Salsa and chips... if a candy bar craving hits me..I have a Mini-Bite Bar(hollween type).. So I could've lost more.. but I'm more then happy with 10lbs in 4 weeks :)
Now mine isn't a perfect PSMF diet..but it works for me and keeps my strength around 90-95% level.
Plus your not suppose to gain muscle with this diet...But I swear I have or at least I see it now :)

Also I use Opticen(1-Scoop) before lifting... to give you those extra little carbs for alittle more energy something like this
Preworkout Lifting only
1-scoop Opticen 8g Carb
2- Scoop Meta-Cel (Isatori Creatine) 5g Carbs

PWO
1-Scoop Nectar
1-BNS CellMass
11g Dex

I do fullbody workouts with a focus on one certain body area 3 x week
I cardio 3x a week also... And I go 75-85% HR which the PSMF Book doesn't recommend ..But I have a very slow metabolism due to I don't have a thyroid and Man-Made Med's are never as good as the real thing.. So I'm for insulin resistant also...
I always figure My metabolism is like a 48 year old Woman :eek: If I use that for a guideline everything works better...

I guess my rambling here is really about........Buy the Book(I have it soft cover and PDF format) And it's harder then heck....but well worth it !!
Also if your under 15% BF you should do the UD2 diet of Lyles.. and as I said before...While I feel Lyle is a very smart guy...he lacks in social skills and his forum is loaded with alot of porn, and children with no manners.. So take care while there :)

CASD
03-02-2006, 10:16 AM
What is wrong with adding some ground up oats (within the carb and calorie regiment) in the morning shakes.. I workout around 5:45AM..

I'm thinking I can get up at 5, drink a shake with oats.. Hit the gym, then when I'm out and ready to shower to go to work have another with oats.. The reasoning is obvious, but is it recomended?

Thanks!

Because your carb reserves are so depleted ..you want something a little faster acting for your workout..
This diet is based on depletion and keeping that way.. the other name for it is "Protien Stravation Meal Fast" PSMF. Your more or less in stravation but with a lot of Protein, According to Lyle..it takes longer then you think to get into full blown stravation mode(If there really is one)..
If I remember right oats are slow acting carbs.. But I think it's worth a try!
Lyle actual recommends sugar pills as one way to get a boost for your lifting..

ddegroff
03-02-2006, 11:09 AM
if you cook the oats, im pretty sure they move to high gi. but isnt this the ATL forum...

Optimum08
03-02-2006, 04:45 PM
I thought high sugar/fructose/dex could cause insulin spikes and make you more prone to diabetes..

Wrong. Glucose (corn sugar) also known as dextrose is a fast acting carb, and does spike insulin, but there is no experimental evidence anywhere that links insulin spikes to diabetes. Your insulin spikes anytime you eat anything, so basically with that reasoning anyone who ate anything would have diabetes.

Organichu
03-02-2006, 08:48 PM
Dizamn, my Korean friend. Thanks for helping me with all of these inquiries. Well played. :D

ArchAngel777
03-03-2006, 08:41 AM
Wrong. Glucose (corn sugar) also known as dextrose is a fast acting carb, and does spike insulin, but there is no experimental evidence anywhere that links insulin spikes to diabetes. Your insulin spikes anytime you eat anything, so basically with that reasoning anyone who ate anything would have diabetes.

IIRC there are level of these "spikes". So much in fact, that the word "spike" is usless unless we are referring to the top of the spectrum. So, it is true that all foods raise insulin or rather, all carbs, but not all of them raise it severely. Therefore, their reasoning isn't faulty.

Besides, Type II Diabetes isn't like an on/off switch. It is a progressive condition until one is deemed bad enough to be diagnosed with it it. Meaning, some may be able to create and release insulin better than others, but neither of them are diabetics, medically that is, until they degrade past a certain point.

It is true though that we are not entirely sure if Type II diabetes is linked to high GI foods, but there is evidence for it. But high GI isn't that bad if it is taken in small doses. Lower GI foods eaten in excess can be worse than a little bit of high GI foods.

Optimum08
03-03-2006, 04:55 PM
i was speaking in generalities. But to be specific yes archangel you are correct. I really actually didn't feel like getting into explaining the GI index and all of that jazz, so i used a "dumbed" down version.

Behemoth
03-03-2006, 04:55 PM
So what are you doing now? Continueing psmf? traidtional local diet? maintance? bulk?

Organichu
03-03-2006, 05:05 PM
So what are you doing now? Continueing psmf? traidtional local diet? maintance? bulk?

I was doing maintenance for a little bit and recently started an ultra clean bulk. Righ now I'm probably about 190-191 at roughly 15% bf.

ArchAngel777
03-04-2006, 05:30 PM
I was doing maintenance for a little bit and recently started an ultra clean bulk. Righ now I'm probably about 190-191 at roughly 15% bf.

Any reason you stopped with the cut? Just curious is all. I know it is probably personal preference.

I am not sure on my final plans, but I want to get into the single digits for body fat and then eat a very small amount over maintenance (like 100) and gain muscle very slowly. Ideally, when I get to the body fat percentage where I want it and be careful not to depart from it.

By the way, not sure I ever said this, but great work on the diet. Awesome determination if you ask me.

Organichu
03-04-2006, 06:51 PM
Any reason you stopped with the cut? Just curious is all. I know it is probably personal preference.

Well, my initial goal in pursuing nutrition and exercise was to be "not fat". I've achieved that.

I admit that I'm curious about having visible abdominals and vascular shoulders.. but after being so garishly overweight for so long, just a lack of a gut makes me feel like I'm shredded.

I'd optimally like to have a solid 175 lbs of lbm before seeing a single digit body fat percentage.



I am not sure on my final plans, but I want to get into the single digits for body fat and then eat a very small amount over maintenance (like 100) and gain muscle very slowly. Ideally, when I get to the body fat percentage where I want it and be careful not to depart from it.

That definitely appears to be a sound strategy; good luck!


By the way, not sure I ever said this, but great work on the diet. Awesome determination if you ask me.

Thanks, man. I know that it's a "simple" diet, but it is also brutal. I never craved (past the first week) any extreme junkfood (ice cream, pizza etc.), but it was so difficult not to have a piece of bread or a slice of cheese.

jlothar1
03-06-2006, 10:07 AM
Did you use any ECA or green tea?
Any luck with those pics?

Holto
03-06-2006, 02:47 PM
Opti:

Just wanted to drop in and say thank you for sharing this and for doing such a good job. I recently started a cut after a long period of bulking and you have seriously inspired me. Especially in trying to lose more than 1lb/wk.

I also think I will have to order some Nitrean.

Patz
03-06-2006, 04:43 PM
.. the other name for it is "Protien Stravation Meal Fast" PSMF. Your more or less in stravation but with a lot of Protein,

Protein Sparing Modified Fast

;)

Organichu
03-08-2006, 08:27 PM
Did you use any ECA or green tea?
Any luck with those pics?

No and no.

And a last no. I don't really have the money to drop on a new camera right now, but I hope it'll happen by summer.

Optimum08
03-08-2006, 09:31 PM
Opti:

Just wanted to drop in and say thank you for sharing this and for doing such a good job. I recently started a cut after a long period of bulking and you have seriously inspired me. Especially in trying to lose more than 1lb/wk.

I also think I will have to order some Nitrean.

Holto i think you meant Organichu, but thanks anyway :p

Veritas
03-10-2006, 09:40 AM
No and no.

And a last no. I don't really have the money to drop on a new camera right now, but I hope it'll happen by summer.

You know walmart has disposable digitial cameras, and at the very least you could take pictures w/ a regular camera and scan them at a kinkos, walmart, office depot, etc. Those are just some cheap alternatives.

Organichu
03-10-2006, 05:19 PM
You know walmart has disposable digitial cameras, and at the very least you could take pictures w/ a regular camera and scan them at a kinkos, walmart, office depot, etc. Those are just some cheap alternatives.

I didn't pursue the latter because of the trouble of scanning them and whatnot.. I didn't know that disposable digital cameras existed. I might look into that.

TBH I'm not really in a big rush. The impact of the "wow" factor of losing this much fat in three months has seriously diminished at this point (over a month later), so I figure it's no big thing.

briancurran01
03-10-2006, 07:00 PM
organic:WAY TO GO BRO!!

You kicked some ass man. I am thinking about trying a psmf when I come back from the injuries.

PSMF is TOUGH i did it before and had similar results (i refed every week though)

AGAIN AWESOME WORK BRO!!!

Dargo
03-15-2006, 07:41 AM
OK, you have truly inspired me:thumbup:

I'm going to give this a shot for 2 weeks and see where I am and how I feel then.

First, I'm 34, 5'11'' and ~250 lbs. BF = 34%

So I'm thinking of the following each day:

7-8 servings of Nitrean
6 servings EFA
1-2 multivitamins (Centrum)
plenty of water
celery (for sanity)
1 fiber pill

Also, I need my coffee and here at work I use the powdered milk which has 10 calories and 1g of carbs. This shouldn't be a problem right?

Overall, how does this look? Am I missing something?

Thanks, and again WOW:eek:

Patz
03-15-2006, 12:29 PM
OK, you have truly inspired me:thumbup:

I'm going to give this a shot for 2 weeks and see where I am and how I feel then.

First, I'm 34, 5'11'' and ~250 lbs. BF = 34%

So I'm thinking of the following each day:

7-8 servings of Nitrean
6 servings EFA
1-2 multivitamins (Centrum)
plenty of water
celery (for sanity)
1 fiber pill

Also, I need my coffee and here at work I use the powdered milk which has 10 calories and 1g of carbs. This shouldn't be a problem right?

Overall, how does this look? Am I missing something?

Thanks, and again WOW:eek:

You only need one multivitamin per day.

Also, Lyle's PSMF reccomends, if I remember correctly, 1500mg of calcium. You may want to confirm the number, but I know calcium was important.

Sul Train
03-15-2006, 06:06 PM
CONGRATS ORGANICHU!

Awright, I'm going to be trying a PSMF once I get the money to order the Nitrean. Where's a good place to get a breakdown on a PSMF?

I just wonder cause I really want to know what I'll need in terms of supplements. I'm figuring Nitrean, but no Opticen? Just one type of shake? And as for vitamins and other sups, what's the best blend with a PSMF?

And another question, I have shakes from my bulk with 500 Calories and 50 Grams of Protein per serving...these wouldn't be used at all on a PSMF, correct?

Thanks all who take time to help me with this, and Congrats again O'Chu...

Motivating as hell.

Dargo
03-15-2006, 06:55 PM
You only need one multivitamin per day.

Also, Lyle's PSMF reccomends, if I remember correctly, 1500mg of calcium. You may want to confirm the number, but I know calcium was important.

Yeah, I need to re-read and look for that. I remember the calcium thing now too.

Thanks,

Organichu
03-16-2006, 04:28 PM
CONGRATS ORGANICHU!

Thanks. :)


And another question, I have shakes from my bulk with 500 Calories and 50 Grams of Protein per serving...these wouldn't be used at all on a PSMF, correct?

PSMF is an acronym for "Protein Sparing Modified Fast".

It's a starvation diet that fends off catabolism by supporting a positive Nitrogen balance (a la tons of protein).

You won't want to have that shake, as it contains carbohydrates and or fat.

Essentially, most maintenance and bulking diets aim for a caloric benchmark. They then manage the macronutrient ratios of their diets.

PSMF is different. It suggests a protein requirement, and asks you to meet this requirement- and only this requirement. There are no caloric ballasts. Protein, protein, protein.


Thanks all who take time to help me with this, and Congrats again O'Chu...

Motivating as hell.

You know, a few people have asked me if I did this to impress someone (I recently got out of a relationship), or if I did it as a favor to Chris and Dan (not the case at all- I merely recognized publically their product's relevance to my success (very great), and lauded them to the degree which I find appropriate- a high degree.)

In fact, I did this entirely for myself. I did not want to be fat any longer, and that profound desire allowed me to achieve my goals.

If you attempt to succeed at this diet, I think you're going to have to keep that in mind. You don't want that fat, and you are willing to suffer to get rid of it.

Thanks for the interest,
John

D Breyer
03-16-2006, 08:35 PM
simply amazing... great job man

ruffryder55
03-22-2006, 05:58 PM
Is Opticean more filling then Nitrean? I am trying this PSMF but im just not getting full at all from nitrean, since the first week i have been on it ive lost about 4 pounds, but im still eating along with taking it. I have a soup for lunch and a salad for dinner. I just want to be full from the nitrean so i can just take that and be fine.

Dargo
03-24-2006, 03:54 AM
Is Opticean more filling then Nitrean? I am trying this PSMF but im just not getting full at all from nitrean, since the first week i have been on it ive lost about 4 pounds, but im still eating along with taking it. I have a soup for lunch and a salad for dinner. I just want to be full from the nitrean so i can just take that and be fine.


Opticean is more filling but has too many carbs and all for this diet. I'm using Nitrean, taking a fair amount of vitmains/supplements, and giving myself 2 cheat meals a week and I've lost over 6lbs in one week (probably water but still). Just my .02

Optimum08
03-29-2006, 09:14 PM
Is Opticean more filling then Nitrean? I am trying this PSMF but im just not getting full at all from nitrean, since the first week i have been on it ive lost about 4 pounds, but im still eating along with taking it. I have a soup for lunch and a salad for dinner. I just want to be full from the nitrean so i can just take that and be fine.

opticen is fine for anything, but not for PSMF...PSMF is as close as you can get to ingesting straight protein.

PoutineEh
03-31-2006, 10:27 PM
im kind of curious about psmf now. does the weight actually stay off once you get off of psmf? do your workouts suffer at all since you are only getting protein and not any carbs?

eps
04-03-2006, 12:19 PM
im kind of curious about psmf now. does the weight actually stay off once you get off of psmf? do your workouts suffer at all since you are only getting protein and not any carbs?

I did a PSMF for a month and lost some strength, but it wasn't a tremendous amount. Most of my strength came back when easing into a traditional diet again.

PoutineEh
04-04-2006, 01:33 AM
thats what im thinking i may do in a month. go psmf until my bf drops down some and then start adding fats/carbs back in and then do the traditional low cal diet.

Dargo
04-20-2006, 08:50 AM
Just a note. I've been doing this diet (with some cheat meals every few days) for about 6 weeks. I have lost almost 20 lbs. I am still able to go to my Hapkido classes with no issues, but I would not say a have a super amount of excess energy, but feel fine.

Overall, very happy with the progress and still sane.... I think

wannabeabigboy
04-30-2006, 11:34 PM
pics pics

cy6ex
05-06-2006, 08:13 AM
Enough talk and let's see some pictures already. The suspends is killing us all! LOL

highfidelity
05-08-2006, 01:10 AM
This may help:
http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?sofocus=bs&sbrftog=1&fcl=3&nojspr=y&from=R10&catref=C5&sorefinesearch=1&fscl=1&saaff=afdefault&sacur=0&frpp=50&saslop=1&sacqyop=ge&fss=0&satitle=nikon+coolpix+990&sacat=29997%26catref%3DC6&bs=Search&fsop=1%26fsoo%3D1&coaction=compare&copagenum=1&coentrypage=search&fgtp=&a25563=-24&a14=-24&a25565=-24&a25564=-24&a10244=-24&gcs=1420&pfid=1721&reqtype=1&pfmode=1&alist=a25563%2Ca14%2Ca25565%2Ca25564%2Ca10244%2Ca24197%2Ca3801&pf_query=nikon+coolpix+990&sargn=-1%26saslc%3D2&sadis=200&fpos=02139&ftrt=1&ftrv=1&price=1&saprclo=&saprchi=50

There's tons of <$50 digital cameras out there. The Coolpix 990 is quite nice -- I shot over 10,000 pictures on mine before I upgraded to a Nikon D70. It's beefy, runs on AA batteries, takes standard memory cards, and generally works great.

Dargo
05-08-2006, 04:59 AM
Well, when I'm done (shooting for ~185 lbs) I'll embarrass myself and post an old pic at 255 lbs and a new one. You'll just have to wait :)

PS - As of today I am 228 lbs.