Baby Got Back by MariAnne Anderson - Feb 18th 2006

[Daniel Clough]

Not only does a well-developed back look impressive from all angles, taking a balanced approach to back development can ward off injuries and promote good posture. Read on to find out how to build a big, beautiful back!

http://www.wannabebig.com/article.php?articleid=255

Discuss and enjoy :)

[brickt.]

Yay, Built for El Presidante!

Seriously, I've been on BGB for a coupla weeks now, the numbers are going up, and the shirts are getting tighter. Sweet.

[Built]

Music to my ears. ♪♪ ♪

:)

[BigOldDad]

Baby Got Back and Brain and Brawn. No Balls but **** that ain't a bad thing when you got everything else!!! Lol!!!!

Your the greatest Coach!!!

[JoeG]

The BGB routine is easily the most effective one I have used. I modified it to the 5x5 format and it works like a charm. Not only am I getting a lot better weights from back lifts but my BB Bench is starting to move nicely ws well.

Great job Built.

[Built]

Thank you, guys!

:)

[dissipate]

built, how often would you suggest the exercises be rotated? i'm planning things and am wondering because my gym has limited equipment..

out of the back exercises i can only do bent BB rows, seated cable rows, DB rows, lat pulldowns and pullovers :(

[Anthony]

built, how often would you suggest the exercises be rotated? i'm planning things and am wondering because my gym has limited equipment..
I'd personally rotate as necessary - meaning when you plateau on a particular lift.


out of the back exercises i can only do bent BB rows, seated cable rows, DB rows, lat pulldowns and pullovers :(
No chinups? Jumping chinups? Assisted chinups?

[dissipate]

we haven't got the assisted chinups machine thing here. jumping chinups??

[Anthony]

Jumping chinups are probably better than assisted anyway. Stand on a box/chair so that you can comfortably grip the bar with a flat foot. Then jump/pull at the same time. Sounds like an easy cheat, but you'll be surprised at how much back/arm work you actually get.

[dissipate]

ah! ok i'll try jumping chinups. thanks anthony!!

[Built]

Anthony - I've been very fluid with rotating exercise order, rep range, tempo, and accessory lift selection - keeps it fresh, and avoids the plateau thing. I should be more organized about it, but even rotating it casually like this I've seen excellent progress.

And the jumping chins idea sounds like a winner! I'm gonna try that!

[Anthony]

Anthony - I've been very fluid with rotating exercise order, rep range, tempo, and accessory lift selection - keeps it fresh, and avoids the plateau thing. I should be more organized about it, but even rotating it casually like this I've seen excellent progress.

It's definitely not a bad thing to rotate, but it's not always necessary. Most people can make gains week after week using the same exercise/rep range without hitting a wall. But the stronger/more experienced you get, the more rotation plays a big role in keeping things going forward.

[galileo]

Jumping chinups are probably better than assisted anyway. Stand on a box/chair so that you can comfortably grip the bar with a flat foot. Then jump/pull at the same time. Sounds like an easy cheat, but you'll be surprised at how much back/arm work you actually get.

They're also quite the killer for endurance. My lats were sore for a few days after doing 'em.

[Built]

Okay, I'm doing these tonight.

Pray for me, folks ... ;)

[Built]

Did 'em.

Lived.

Eatin' my sweet 'taters.

[Manveet]

Good article.

[Built]

Thank you Manveet. :)

[OrientalNDN]

oh my goodness has it really been this long since I was last on here??
I can say my testimony is this...
with the 5x5 and 3x8 and 3x8...
four day split, I am not only getting stronger...and love checking out the shoulders...and their, slight ripples....
I am amazing myself...
(wow amazed self)

[Built]

OrientalNDN is indeed looking amazing - and she's outlifting me by more and more all the time. Ahhhh... youth...

;)

Glad you're digging it, babe.

[TwiloMike]

OMG it's fierce! /

Now, as I've seen it mentioned and I've wondered about this also- where can some minor chest work come into BGB during the second leg of the week? Would you put it on the Ham Dominant day? If so, what would you recommend? My one limit is dips- can't do 'em.

[Built]

I think ham dominant day would be the best place for it - still doesn't combine it with shoulder work, and since chest also works tris, it's not a large change from the general format.

[DaoineSidhe]

Where to even start with the questions...*dives head first*

I'd love to try this routine, but my concern is it still possible with DB's, a bench, and a BB?

A few concerns of mine are:

-Rack pulls. Is it alright to leave that out and simply do T-Bar row (5x5), Bent over BB row (3x8), and hammer row (3x8-10)?

-How would you suggest I split up my Hamstrings and Calves (dominant and accessory) with only BB and DB's for equipment?

-When do you take days off? Do you think it best to take a day off after each workout day?

-You have several exercises to choose from within the different groups, such as Vertical plane shoulders and Vertical plane back. Do you think it best to rotate these exercises listed, or is it ok to pick a few to stick with like the example you provided? I know my choices will be less due to my access to less equipment.

[Built]

1. Sure. Or do off the floor deads.

2. Hams: do RDLs, GMs, fake some sort of a GHR arrangement, get a swiss ball to do leg curls (good for higher rep ham work, google swiss ball leg curls for example). You can do calves with the barbell and a step, do 'em one leg at a time.

3. day 1, day 2, off, day 3, day 4, off off works well. Or EOD.

4. Try it either way. I tend to leave the heavy compound alone and rotate the accessory work.

Oh, and get a chinup bar. If you don't have a powercage and can't fake one, do front squats, walking lunges and bulgarian split squats.

[DaoineSidhe]

I'll get started on those soon as I can. Much love for the help.

[gemelnick]

Built, how would you recommend adjusting this routine for athletes? Specifically lacrosse players. We have to have significant endurance and explosive speed/power. Would you recommend your program for someone that wants to gain strength and power but with a need to maintain conditioning?

Trying to answer my own question I came up with this...
Day 1: Quad dom legs, tempo run finish (between 1-3 miles)
Day 2: Morning workout = HIIT running. Afternoon workout = horizontal push/pull
Day 3: GPP work (conditioning focus)
Day 4: Morning workout = Light GPP (conditioning focus)/mile run finish. Afternoon workout = Hamstring dom legs
Day 5: Morning workout = HIIT biking. Afternoon workout = vertical push/pull
Day 6: GPP work (strength focus)
Day 7: optional light run run/light GPP work (conditioning focus)


I know that running after leg day is probably not the best way to go, but I figured as long as I kept the run under 30 min it wouldn't be very likely for me to reach a catabolic state. I also have nowhere else to put it.

Conditioning focused GPP is less strength work and more conditioning. I'll pick from movements like burpees, DB swings, mountain climbers, jumping rope, medicine ball slams/throws, etc.

Strength focused GPP would be more bodyweight strength conditioning: bodyweight chin ups, pushups, bodyweight squats, bodyweight dips, and all of their variations with minimal rest in a circuit fashion.

Looking at that it does seem like a lot and could lead to overtraining, but I've had a similar training load before without detriment (except I had only 3 days lifting). If you have any recommendations/changes I'd really appreciate it.

[Built]

Bump for suggestions?

[Ruffian]

Built, how would you recommend adjusting this routine for athletes? Specifically lacrosse players. We have to have significant endurance and explosive speed/power. Would you recommend your program for someone that wants to gain strength and power but with a need to maintain conditioning?

Trying to answer my own question I came up with this...
Day 1: Quad dom legs, tempo run finish (between 1-3 miles)
Day 2: Morning workout = HIIT running. Afternoon workout = horizontal push/pull
Day 3: GPP work (conditioning focus)
Day 4: Morning workout = Light GPP (conditioning focus)/mile run finish. Afternoon workout = Hamstring dom legs
Day 5: Morning workout = HIIT biking. Afternoon workout = vertical push/pull
Day 6: GPP work (strength focus)
Day 7: optional light run run/light GPP work (conditioning focus)


I know that running after leg day is probably not the best way to go, but I figured as long as I kept the run under 30 min it wouldn't be very likely for me to reach a catabolic state. I also have nowhere else to put it.

Conditioning focused GPP is less strength work and more conditioning. I'll pick from movements like burpees, DB swings, mountain climbers, jumping rope, medicine ball slams/throws, etc.

Strength focused GPP would be more bodyweight strength conditioning: bodyweight chin ups, pushups, bodyweight squats, bodyweight dips, and all of their variations with minimal rest in a circuit fashion.

Looking at that it does seem like a lot and could lead to overtraining, but I've had a similar training load before without detriment (except I had only 3 days lifting). If you have any recommendations/changes I'd really appreciate it.

You would last for about one week before your body started to die. Split the running and weightlifting. Mostly because neither are going to be wholly effective if you dont seperate them. You'll either be too tired to do weights or run.

Try something more like this:

Day 1:
Horizontal Pulling
• Barbell Rows (vary the grip between pronated and supinated)
• Rack Pulls (vary the pin height, usually set them set below the knee/mid shin area)
• Pull Ups
• Lat Pulldowns

Day 2: HIIT

Day 3:
•Squat and/or deadlift
•Isolated work for your quads and hams (your choice)

Day 4: Endurance training

DAy 5:
•Bench Press
•Arnold Press
• Flies
•Dumbell Press


This is something similar to what alot of the track ppl at my school do. I wouldnt recommend more then 6 days of training, if you want to do another day of cardio swim, purely to save your legs... Take it or leave it.

[JustinASU]

Built, how would you recommend adjusting this routine for athletes? Specifically lacrosse players. We have to have significant endurance and explosive speed/power. Would you recommend your program for someone that wants to gain strength and power but with a need to maintain conditioning?

Trying to answer my own question I came up with this...
Day 1: Quad dom legs, tempo run finish (between 1-3 miles)
Day 2: Morning workout = HIIT running. Afternoon workout = horizontal push/pull
Day 3: GPP work (conditioning focus)
Day 4: Morning workout = Light GPP (conditioning focus)/mile run finish. Afternoon workout = Hamstring dom legs
Day 5: Morning workout = HIIT biking. Afternoon workout = vertical push/pull
Day 6: GPP work (strength focus)
Day 7: optional light run run/light GPP work (conditioning focus)


I know that running after leg day is probably not the best way to go, but I figured as long as I kept the run under 30 min it wouldn't be very likely for me to reach a catabolic state. I also have nowhere else to put it.

Conditioning focused GPP is less strength work and more conditioning. I'll pick from movements like burpees, DB swings, mountain climbers, jumping rope, medicine ball slams/throws, etc.

Strength focused GPP would be more bodyweight strength conditioning: bodyweight chin ups, pushups, bodyweight squats, bodyweight dips, and all of their variations with minimal rest in a circuit fashion.

Looking at that it does seem like a lot and could lead to overtraining, but I've had a similar training load before without detriment (except I had only 3 days lifting). If you have any recommendations/changes I'd really appreciate it.

I see no problem with the above routine. He's an althelete. GPP and conditioning aren't going to interfere with strength training.

[Chubrock]

Personally, the way I would structure the workout would be like this:


MWF- Full Body Compound (First Week 2 Heavy days, 1 Explosive day, Second Week 2 Explosive days, 1 Heavy day etc etc etc)

T/TH- HIIT days, maybe light active recovery stuff

S/Su- Either slow run for aerobic conditioning or some light GPP stuff





I think the mixture of HIIT and all your heavy lifting will tend to wear on your body when coupled with all the extra GPP and aerobic conditioning.




Just my thoughts. I followed a routine for quite awhile in which I mixed Heavy Days, Explosive Days and intense conditioning while training for BJJ.

[Ruffian]

Im thinking that he wants to improve on all aspects, and he will see little to no improvement with his current one. He will wear himself out almost entirely, especially since this is building and not just maintaining.

His choice tho.

[K1M]

LOL, Built, you're famous

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?p=11824829#post11824829

[Built]

That's awesome!

Thanks K1M.

:)

[Laertes]

Maybe I missed it somewhere, which is possible, but I'm not sure where deadlifts fit into this routine. Day 1? Another day?

[ShockBoxer]

Substitute them in for the rack pulls.

[Laertes]

Thanks, Shock.

[galileo]

LOL, Built, you're famous

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?p=11824829#post11824829

lol! That's Monstar. He's banned from here because of many, many reasons. He still lurks here and tried a rereg not too long ago. :)

[Blood&Iron]

lol! That's Monstar. He's banned from here because of many, many reasons. He still lurks here and tried a rereg not too long ago. :)
Christ, from that thread it looks like he's still starting a new journal every three weeks...

I wonder if he maintains the jelking one still?

[ericg]

Lol @ the monstar comments. He had at least 10 journals here in under a years time! Sorry to get off topic.

[Built]

Hey - pimpage is pimpage. I'll take it. ;)

[Scorpion32]

3. day 1, day 2, off, day 3, day 4, off off works well. Or EOD.

I think I have been sold on BGG. Last week on current coutine, then a week off. I have been training for about two streight months heavy and to failure. My only question is go I do cardio on the off days?

ex: Wed and Sat if I start on Monday with day 1? I am trying to gain at least 10 to 15 lbs but continue to run for health resaons. I am currently running two days a week of HIIT for only about 10 to 12 min. Any help would be great.

[sCaRz*Of*PaiN]

I have been training for about two streight months heavy and to failureYou shouldn't be going to failure every single work out. You can burn yourself out that way. Going to failure is a tool, but it isn't needed during every single workout to see progression.

[Scorpion32]

You shouldn't be going to failure every single work out. You can burn yourself out that way. Going to failure is a tool, but it isn't needed during every single workout to see progression.

I am not sure if we had had this discussion before of not on another thread, But failure to me is lifting untill I lose form and or I can no longer move the weight. This has been working for me. All my lifts have gone up as well as I have gained aroung 10 pounds without gaining but maybe 1% BF. However I am starting to plateau after about 2 months.

[Scorpion32]

AS for BGB I have not started it yet. I will be starting it after I get back from a coaches clinic next week.

[Built]

Scorpion - about your plateau: are you still gaining weight?

Regarding cardio - I worked BGB into a cardio protocol in How to do Cardio if you must. Link is in my sig. You might want to toss in HIIT once or twice a week, and maybe a little post-workout ss cardio and or hill repeats once a week.

Just make sure you eat more to accommodate the extra activity or you won't gain well.

[Scorpion32]

Built- Yes I am still gaining weight, but I am afraid that it is going to stop with the lack in strength.

[Built]

You think your weight gain will stop if your strength doesn't grow?

[Scorpion32]

Yes....Is that correct? I want to continue to gain some size as well as continue to gain some strength. I am only about 10-12 pounds away from being 185 which I feel is the size I want to be we will see when I get there. I want to look great, be strong, but not get freakishly big.

[sCaRz*Of*PaiN]

I am not sure if we had had this discussion before of not on another thread, But failure to me is lifting untill I lose form and or I can no longer move the weight. This has been working for me. All my lifts have gone up as well as I have gained aroung 10 pounds without gaining but maybe 1% BF. However I am starting to plateau after about 2 months.I didn't say you couldn't make gains going to failure, but you will eventually feel very burnt out. And yes, that is my idea of failure as well. Use the failure method if you like, but don't do it on every single workout.

[Scorpion32]

I am having a hard time understanding your method of lifting. Say you have 5 sets of 5. Do you lift just enough weight on each set that you will be sucessful?? If you tried to do 6 you would lose form?? How do you know when to go up in weight if you do not fail at your lift?? Forgive me for being stupid but I really don't understand when you would know when to go up in weight. I want to get stronger every time I go in the gym. Will that happen every time, no. But I strive for at least one more rep or more weight every time I go into the gym.

[Built]

Weight gain doesn't depend on strength! It depends on diet!

It sounds to me like you need to eat more!

Read the Hypertrophy primer. You may find that information helpful.

[Scorpion32]

Thank you for your help! I learned a lot this evening!

[Built]

Oh good!

:)

Now go - eat up and get HYOOGE!

;)

[civrob]

ok i have a quick question.

how long on average does the workout last. Im guessing with doing a 4 day split workout the sessions are quite short.

Im taking this routine a day at a time.

Day one, ive selected the following

T-bar rows - 10*/8/8/6
Dumbell press - 10*/8/8/6
standing calves - 8/8/8/8

* means warm up. last set at 6 will generally notch it up a weight and hit close to failure. Is it me or is the exercise a little short?

[Built]

Civrob - you're skipping the 5x5s?

Read the summary at the end of the article - you might find that helpful.

Workout usually takes me under an hour. Longer if I make friends. ;)

[civrob]

I misinterpreted the workout... ive had another go here

Thickness back (as labelled horizontal pulling)
T-bar rows - 5x5
Bent-over rows 10*/8/8/8

Chest
Dumbell press - 10*/8/8/8
standing calves - 8/8/8/8
abs weighted crunches 8/8/8

* means warm up. Could i change t-bar rows for regular deadlifts? Where can i find more info on the 5x5 range?

[Built]

T-bars are fine.

Read the hypertrophy primer sticky for stuff on the rep ranges.

[civrob]

I read it up hypertrophy primer just did a quick search,

did my first session in the gym today with BGB... must say its more complex than the last routine which was a variation of wbb1. I understand more now about the choices in bgb.

Onwards and upwards now :read: :strong: :read:

[Built]

Lemme know how it goes for you, civrob.

[snow]

I offered this as a workout routine to my friend and he said something to the effect of being concerned about working two major muscle groups at the same time, i.e. chest/back. Also, said something about muscles not getting enough nutrients with the way this is set up. What is he talking about? I'm imagining he doesn't know.

[Built]

You lost me with the muscles not getting enough nutrients.

That's awesome.

The muscles worked are agonist antagonist pairs. There are numerous advantages to training this way. Your friend needs to do some reading.

[snow]

You lost me with the muscles not getting enough nutrients.

That's awesome.

The muscles worked are agonist antagonist pairs. There are numerous advantages to training this way. Your friend needs to do some reading.

I think he wanted to pretend to know what he was talking about. :D

[Portboy]

Sorry! Yet another question, just wanna make sure i'm not gonna kill myself.

First of all, i love this split! In comparison to what i used to be doing: 4 excercises for basically everything, no legs, and always 4 sets of 10 reps, it's a real motivation booster because i don't actually have todo as much...also i love deadlifting and squatting (which i never did before).

I added another leg day, (before day 1), simply because i HATE sucking at squats, and unfortunately, i do not do good mornings, mainly due to the fact that i don't want to explain to everyone in my gym that i am not attempting to squat, and that i am in fact doing GM's.

Anyhoo, my question is:
Would it be possible to dedicate each week to different types of efforts (or whatever the following is called)? For example, one week do ME bench, the next week do DE bench, then the week after do RE bench?

My plan for doing legs 3 days a week, and squatting on each of those days was to basically max out on one day, speed work on the other, and higher reps on the other.

Could i do this? Would it work? Or have i once again completely misunderstood?

Thanks in advance.

[Built]

Are you talking about a Westside-type paradigm? I'm not 100% clear of what it is you intend to do.

I am nowhere near well-versed in conjugated periodization, but many of our members are. That being said, the principal concept I illustrate in about in BGB is a particular arrangement of push and pull movements. I set it up with 5x5s and 3x8-12s, but it's by no means the only way to do so.

My feeling is that conjugated periodization would be a great way to apply these movements. I'd welcome input on people who train this way. Hell, I may try it myself for a change of pace!

[Portboy]

Are you talking about a Westside-type paradigm? I'm not 100% clear of what it is you intend to do.

I am nowhere near well-versed in conjugated periodization, but many of our members are. That being said, the principal concept I illustrate in about in BGB is a particular arrangement of push and pull movements. I set it up with 5x5s and 3x8-12s, but it's by no means the only way to do so.

My feeling is that conjugated periodization would be a great way to apply these movements. I'd welcome input on people who train this way. Hell, I may try it myself for a change of pace!

I know i'm still a serious n00b, but i'm pretty sure that the words 'conjugated perdiodization' are kind of what i mean.

I'll try and put it more simply.

Take bench press, for example:
Week 1 do:
Maximal Effort Bench Press (on horizontal push/pull day, ofcourse)
Either working up to a 1RM, or keeping weight high, reps low.

Obviously followed by the rest of the split for that week.


Then on week 2 do:
Dynamic Effort Bench Press
A certain percentage of your 1RM for speed work (i think thats what dynamic effort is).

Again, obviously followed by the rest of the split.

Week 3 do:
Repeated Effort Bench Press
Again, a lower percentage of your 1RM for reps, to failure (?).

Obviously followed by the rest of the split.

I just took bench press as an example to make it look simpler, i tend to ramble on!

Sorry if i don't know what the hell i'm talking about.

[Built]

Portboy, we're both newbs here - I haven't tried this approach either.

So would you do this for the horizontal pulling movement as well for those days? Any Westside aficionados care to chime in here with suggestions?

[Portboy]

Portboy, we're both newbs here - I haven't tried this approach either.

So would you do this for the horizontal pulling movement as well for those days? Any Westside aficionados care to chime in here with suggestions?

Actually i was only thinking about doing it to assist and hopefully improve the 'big three' lifts, but obviously i'm sure it can expand into other movements too.

Gah! I don't know.

[Built]

<Issues the Bat Signal for experienced Westsiders>

[Bob]

Actually i was only thinking about doing it to assist and hopefully improve the 'big three' lifts, but obviously i'm sure it can expand into other movements too.

Gah! I don't know.
Hey Portboy.. Built asked me to check in here and see if I could help..
From what I'm reading above, it sounds like you are trying to combine the BGB program with a Westside/conjugated periodization type of effort. SOunds interesting...

But what worries me, is your statements like above... you really got to know what your want to do first. So I went to your journal and cut out these snippets - from your Jan. 1 2007 post: (and it might actually be better to cary on this conversation there... but for now..)

I've been lifting for about a year now, only 6 or 7 weeks of that has been serious, since i: started BGB, realised i had to train legs, and realised that i actually had to eat to get bigger!
Current stats
Age: 17
Bodyweight: 170lbs (77kg)
Squat: 176lbs x 8 (80kg)
Deadlift: 264lbs x 4 (120kg)
Bench: 198lbs x 1 (90kg)

i basically make it my mission each day to eat as much as possible. I think i'm supposed to be aiming for about 3000 to 4000 calories (attempting a bulk), maybe just reaching 3000, but probably an average of about 2000.

My goals, by the end of the year are:
Deadlift: 396lbs (180kg)
Squat: 308lbs (140kg)
Bench: 264lbs (120kg)

And I see recently you've got new PRs in Squats = 100kg/220lbsx5 and DLs = 140kg/308lbsx2... so this is fantastic news.. and great progress.

So with about 4-5 months of using BgB, you made it about half way to your very aggressive goals. And now you want to change things up. Does all this sound Right?

If so.. here would be my advice... based mainly upon your age and goals.

You are 17, almost NOTHING you do in the weightroom is going to be WRONG or hurt you ((unless you use bad form)). Especially if you eat enough. You will gain both mass and strength... you gotta love youth.

However, although you want your BIG 3 to increase significantly, you don't actually say that you want to compete in a PL competition. Maybe somewhere else you do...

So basically you are creating yourself worry for NO reason. Why? You are progressing!! You have gain some weight - so I assume mass. Stop worrying!!!

If I was going to combine the 2 programs, I might do it a bit differently. Keep the BGB formula, but instead of spliting up ME, DE and RE across weeks, I might split them up across workouts.. (Westside/conjugated periodization says not to do the same effort twice in a row).. perhaps something like this:


Week 1:

DAY 1 - HORIZONTAL PUSH PULL

Horizontal plane back (pull)
ME Horizontal plane chest (push)
DAY 2 - DE QUAD DOMINANT LEGS
DAY 3 - VERTICAL PUSH/PULL

Vertical plane back (pull)
RE Vertical plane shoulders (push)
DAY 4 – ME HIP/HAMSTRING DOMINANT LEGS
Week 2:

DAY 1 - HORIZONTAL PUSH PULL

Horizontal plane back (pull)
DE Horizontal plane chest (push)
DAY 2 - RE QUAD DOMINANT LEGS
DAY 3 - VERTICAL PUSH/PULL

Vertical plane back (pull)
ME Vertical plane shoulders (push)
DAY 4 – DE HIP/HAMSTRING DOMINANT LEGS
Week 3:

DAY 1 - HORIZONTAL PUSH PULL

Horizontal plane back (pull)
RE Horizontal plane chest (push)
DAY 2 - ME QUAD DOMINANT LEGS
DAY 3 - VERTICAL PUSH/PULL

Vertical plane back (pull)
DE Vertical plane shoulders (push)
DAY 4 – RE HIP/HAMSTRING DOMINANT LEGS
Repeat
Your idea combining the 2 types of training & programs sounds cool. You can give it a try for a few months (maybe 4-5 like the basic BGB program) and see what kind of results you have by the end of August. If you haven't progressed in the Big 3 like you want, then perhaps start being stricter to the Westside program.

And you never know, you are 17 so you will probably change your mind by August.. maybe even be a BB'er or Olympic lifter.

And perhaps the best thing you can do is have FUN!! INstead of worrying, think of this like you were a mad scientist!! And you are experimenting (programs, exercises, sets, reps, etc.) and with direct access to the best laboratory (your body). Now use all the tools (brains) you can to think up new and exciting ways to get different results!!! Dude, the experimenting, results and creativity are endless!!! Have Fun.

And GL with your goals. If you know what they are... :thumbup:

[Built]

Bear, you're WONDERFUL! Thank you!

I'm going to do this myself at the end of my cut. I want to get some numbers up myself, and this sounds interesting as hell!

[Portboy]

Hey Portboy.. Built asked me to check in here and see if I could help..
From what I'm reading above, it sounds like you are trying to combine the BGB program with a Westside/conjugated periodization type of effort. SOunds interesting...

But what worries me, is your statements like above... you really got to know what your want to do first. So I went to your journal and cut out these snippets - from your Jan. 1 2007 post: (and it might actually be better to cary on this conversation there... but for now..)


And I see recently you've got new PRs in Squats = 100kg/220lbsx5 and DLs = 140kg/308lbsx2... so this is fantastic news.. and great progress.

So with about 4-5 months of using BgB, you made it about half way to your very aggressive goals. And now you want to change things up. Does all this sound Right?

If so.. here would be my advice... based mainly upon your age and goals.

You are 17, almost NOTHING you do in the weightroom is going to be WRONG or hurt you ((unless you use bad form)). Especially if you eat enough. You will gain both mass and strength... you gotta love youth.

However, although you want your BIG 3 to increase significantly, you don't actually say that you want to compete in a PL competition. Maybe somewhere else you do...

So basically you are creating yourself worry for NO reason. Why? You are progressing!! You have gain some weight - so I assume mass. Stop worrying!!!

If I was going to combine the 2 programs, I might do it a bit differently. Keep the BGB formula, but instead of spliting up ME, DE and RE across weeks, I might split them up across workouts.. (Westside/conjugated periodization says not to do the same effort twice in a row).. perhaps something like this:


Week 1:

DAY 1 - HORIZONTAL PUSH PULL

Horizontal plane back (pull)
ME Horizontal plane chest (push)
DAY 2 - DE QUAD DOMINANT LEGS
DAY 3 - VERTICAL PUSH/PULL

Vertical plane back (pull)
RE Vertical plane shoulders (push)
DAY 4 – ME HIP/HAMSTRING DOMINANT LEGS
Week 2:

DAY 1 - HORIZONTAL PUSH PULL

Horizontal plane back (pull)
DE Horizontal plane chest (push)
DAY 2 - RE QUAD DOMINANT LEGS
DAY 3 - VERTICAL PUSH/PULL

Vertical plane back (pull)
ME Vertical plane shoulders (push)
DAY 4 – DE HIP/HAMSTRING DOMINANT LEGS
Week 3:

DAY 1 - HORIZONTAL PUSH PULL

Horizontal plane back (pull)
RE Horizontal plane chest (push)
DAY 2 - ME QUAD DOMINANT LEGS
DAY 3 - VERTICAL PUSH/PULL

Vertical plane back (pull)
DE Vertical plane shoulders (push)
DAY 4 – RE HIP/HAMSTRING DOMINANT LEGS
Repeat
Your idea combining the 2 types of training & programs sounds cool. You can give it a try for a few months (maybe 4-5 like the basic BGB program) and see what kind of results you have by the end of August. If you haven't progressed in the Big 3 like you want, then perhaps start being stricter to the Westside program.

And you never know, you are 17 so you will probably change your mind by August.. maybe even be a BB'er or Olympic lifter.

And perhaps the best thing you can do is have FUN!! INstead of worrying, think of this like you were a mad scientist!! And you are experimenting (programs, exercises, sets, reps, etc.) and with direct access to the best laboratory (your body). Now use all the tools (brains) you can to think up new and exciting ways to get different results!!! Dude, the experimenting, results and creativity are endless!!! Have Fun.

And GL with your goals. If you know what they are... :thumbup:

:D Thankyou Bearwolf!

Thanks alot for writing this up! I suppose you're right about me reaching goals, so i suppose that maybe i don't need todo this. Maybe i'm hungry for strength. Although to me the weights i'm doing seem like alot, i know that in the grand spectrum of lifting i've barely made a dent.

When i look at people like Fuzzy and Stump i just wanna kick myself, and it's also why i don't think i really have any significant future for olympic lifting or bodybuilding (lol but thankyou for suggesting it); i feel that if i was gonna be any good i should be lifting alot more than i am now (plus i'm about 5'9" and quite narrow framed (http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=92648) so BB'ing is out the window).

In this case, i'll probably stick to BGB, because as you said i am reaching my goals, so i guess i don't need to be changing things up. And yeah, i do have to make myself worry too much!

THANKYOU! THANKYOU! THANKYOU!

And THANKYOU to Built for the help :)

[Bob]

Portboy.. I put my reply in your journal, so we don't hijack this BGB thread too much.. in short, again you are worrying too much...

[TommyBoy]

Portboy why not just use a standard westside barbell template?

[HeavyBomber]

There are two articles that are must reads for anyone learning about conjugate periodization.

To understand conjugate you need to first understand linear periodization:

http://www.elitefts.com/documents/periodization_bible__part_1.htm

The second article delves into conjugate:

http://www.elitefts.com/documents/periodization_bible__part_2.htm

There are a number of excellent articles on Westside and strength training in general on:

http://www.elitefts.com/articles/Current-Articles/default.asp

[Built]

Bearwolf, threadjack away - your replies are interesting to me.
Tommy, HeavyBomber - thank you very much for your help and suggestions.

[Sensei]

There are two articles that are must reads for anyone learning about conjugate periodization...
You left out this article which, IMHO, is a must for anyone considering WS:
Busting Ass 101: http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do;jsessionid=4ED85B19CE9A221F948A3D0BBA6E5F3B.ba08?article=288ba2

[HeavyBomber]

You left out this article which, IMHO, is a must for anyone considering WS:
Busting Ass 101: http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do;jsessionid=4ED85B19CE9A221F948A3D0BBA6E5F3B.ba08?article=288ba2

That's why they pay you the big bucks Sensei.

[gregster]

I've decided to switch to this routine from my current routine which is basically an upper/lower 3 day per week split. I really like the idea of the 4 day split hitting everything 2X per week instead of my current once every 5 day split.
As a somewhat older guy at 51, I'm not sure if 4 days a week might be too much (not enough recovery) considering I have a pretty demanding physical job as a postman working 10 hours a day 6 days a week.
Would it be a good idea to ease into this routine by keeping the reps a little higher at first? And maybe starting out with 3-4 sets instaed of 5 on some of the exercises??
I'm still pretty much a noob, especially with leg work. I've just gotten to the point now where I can squat every 4-5 days and recover. I'm thinking that especially with the leg work I may need to start out at lower intensity and build up from there.
Any other advice on how to make the switch over?

Thanks much!

[snow]

maybe this was discussed, but i'm lazy...

i just started this yesterday and the 2 sets for each body part seemed like more than enough. does anybody do the extra sets, i.e. hammer rows for back and incline flies for chest?

[method115]

maybe this was discussed, but i'm lazy...

i just started this yesterday and the 2 sets for each body part seemed like more than enough. does anybody do the extra sets, i.e. hammer rows for back and incline flies for chest?

I don't do the extra sets. They might be useful for the back since it's a bigger muscle. I find BGB to be hard enough as it is without needed to add the extras.

This routine is great you'll find it to be the best most likely. I've tried several other routines before and after using BGB. No routine I have used has given me results like this one.

[Built]

Gregster, I got back to you by PM I think, yes? I'll have to stalk you and see what you ended up doing. I'm a geezer myself, and I've had no problem with the volume - quite the contrary, because it isn't a "rape your bodypart" split, I think you'll find the lower-volume workouts with frequent hits in different rep ranges will work quite well with your *ahem* aging joints and tendons. <says the pot to the kettle> ;)

Snow - it depends on the individual. I find it helpful for areas where I'm not strong enough to cause enough microtrauma any other way, or areas where I suspect I might have more slow twitch than I'd like - for example, my quads or my delts. Also depends on diet - bulking, with the extra food - no problem. Cutting, the 5x5 turns into a 3x5 and I drop anything with more than 8 reps.

method115 - I'm delighted to hear this. I'm so glad you've enjoyed success using this routine! :)

[Rock Steady]

This routine kicks ass. I gained muscle all over the place with it and have used it for over 18 months. The nice thing is there is enough room for change that I've kept things relatively fresh the whole time.

Still, it may be time to change things up for 6 months or so. I'm sure I'll come crawling back eventually!

[Built]

See, that's the thing - it's really easy to keep it fresh while keeping it balanced.

Rock Steady, that's so great to hear! I love to hear about it when people make gains from something I passed along - it's great to have a bank of effective paradigms to draw from when people ask for suggestions, and feedback is how that bank account grows. Much obliged.

Since you mentioned perhaps needing a change, I'll offer up what I've been doing lately.

Basically, it's a three-day for the lifting, with a forth day for hill repeats (cardio only). I toss a yoga class between days 1 and 2, but that's lower back and hip-stretching 'cause I'm an old lady. I don't really think of it as a workout; it's more of a massage.
Within the three workouts, you can still see the structure of quad and ham dominant work balanced off with pushing and pulling in orthogonal planes:

Monday
Workout 1:
quad dominant with vertical pushing (front squats, lighter front squats, Oly bar shoulder press, arnies);
HIIT + ss cardio (treadmill sprints (http://builtblog.wikidbody.com/2007/06/11/how-to-do-cardio-if-you-must/), hamstring focus)

Tuesday
Yoga

Wednesday:
Off

Thursday:
Workout 2
cleans/clean and press with vertical pulling (cleans/clean and press, weighted chins, hammerstrength "spiderman" lat work or unweighted chins, weighted ab work);
HIIT + ss cardio to total 20 minutes (recumbent bicycle sprints aka "8 seconds of doom (http://builtblog.wikidbody.com/2007/06/11/8-seconds-of-glory/)", quad focus)

Friday:
Workout 3
horizontal pushing with deads/ham dominant work (bb bench, dumbbell incline bench with bands, RDLs, split squats);
HIIT + ss cardio to total 20 minutes (complexes (http://builtblog.wikidbody.com/2007/08/17/superiority-complexes/), full body metabolic work)

Saturday or Sunday:
Hill repeats for 20-40 minutes (http://builtblog.wikidbody.com/2007/06/11/how-to-do-cardio-if-you-must/) (described in my cardio article)

Notes:
Some of the work I do in straight sets, some as antagonist pairs. This varies organically, depending on the availability of equipment, and also whether or not I'm particularly pressed for time.

Diet:
I'm dieting a little differently this cut - VERY high calories on the 3 training days, basically PSMF levels on the off days. The differential is about 2500/1200, which works out to about 1700-1800 calories on average. While this represents about a 15% deficit for me, the training days are always over maintenance - kinda sweet while cutting! So far, it translates to me not feeling like I'm overtraining from the lifting/interval work I do three days a week - I have a ton of food on lifting days and plenty of time to recover on the down days.

Kinda nice always training really well-fed during a cut. So far, seems quite comfortable - and effective. As an added perk, I seem to be able to manage without tracking: PSMF-level rations completely kill my appetite, and if I don't eat stupid, I naturally seen to settle at around 2500 calories if I eat to satiety (but not beyond) on my "usual" food choices.

[method115]

This routine kicks ass. I gained muscle all over the place with it and have used it for over 18 months. The nice thing is there is enough room for change that I've kept things relatively fresh the whole time.

Still, it may be time to change things up for 6 months or so. I'm sure I'll come crawling back eventually!

Yes I would honestly not stop doing this routine I thought the same like you and decided to take a break form this routine. It ended up being a big mistake and I came back after about 3 months weaker then before.

[killxswitch]

I look forward to starting this routine once I've done all I can with Rippetoe's Starting Strength. I'm happy with my gains thus far with that, but I'm getting a little bored with doing the same things over and over.

[CODmasterJYK]

Hey guys. I got a question. Is Baby Got Back and the Wanna be big routines designed for people who (besides working out) sit around and do nothing all day?

Because I have Breakdancing practice (about 2-3 hours) every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday and occasionally on the weekends too.

Also, when do you recommend me to fit in my 3 HIIT days? See, BGB tells me to work out my legs on Tuesdays and Fridays, but my legs are always fried when I wanna do HIIT the next day (a rest day). Can I do HIIT on a work out day too?

Thanks a bunch!

[OGROK]

Hey Built.

I wanna know why you do biceps in the strength range in this routine. It doesn't seem to make sense -- biceps don't exactly play a big role in any of the major compound lifts -- they are pretty much just for show.

[OGROK]

Also, when do you recommend me to fit in my 3 HIIT days? See, BGB tells me to work out my legs on Tuesdays and Fridays, but my legs are always fried when I wanna do HIIT the next day (a rest day). Can I do HIIT on a work out day too?

Thanks a bunch!

Why do you need to do cardio so badly? Doing a whole bunch of cardio is going to kill your gains dude.

[CODmasterJYK]

Well, I'm a Breakdancer. I'm on a team at Northwestern University, so I can't give that up. That's a Cardio workout that I cannot give up because it's what I do.

I wanna do HIIT to lose weight.

[OGROK]

Well, I'm a Breakdancer. I'm on a team at Northwestern University, so I can't give that up. That's a Cardio workout that I cannot give up because it's what I do.

I wanna do HIIT to lose weight.

HIIT doesn't make you lose weight. Hell, if anything, a bunch of cardio is just going to teach your body to increase fat reserves to make up for the energy expenditures (weight lifting teaches the body to store this as muscle instead). Caloric deficits and a good diet make you lose weight. I think a bunch of HIIT and cardio is just going to overtrain you.

[CODmasterJYK]

I am eating at a caloric deficit. I am eating at a good diet. I'm having about a gram of protein per lean body mass and about half as much fat. I'm not that nooby. lol.

For HIIT, I was planning to do 3 twenty minute sessions per week. HIIT has been proven to be best suited for fat loss. It has the highest rate of fat loss than other work outs, which is why I would like to add it to my exercise.

The problem is, Wednesday and Saturday (days that I plan to do HIIT) are right after leg days and I feel like I would overtrain my leg. Instead, should I do HIIT on work-out days? or what? Am I trying to do too much? Because I do have like 2-3 hours of breakdance practice about 2-3 times a week.

[OGROK]

I am eating at a caloric deficit. I am eating at a good diet. I'm having about a gram of protein per lean body mass and about half as much fat. I'm not that nooby. lol.

For HIIT, I was planning to do 3 twenty minute sessions per week. HIIT has been proven to be best suited for fat loss. It has the highest rate of fat loss than other work outs, which is why I would like to add it to my exercise.

The problem is, Wednesday and Saturday (days that I plan to do HIIT) are right after leg days and I feel like I would overtrain my leg. Instead, should I do HIIT on work-out days? or what? Am I trying to do too much? Because I do have like 2-3 hours of breakdance practice about 2-3 times a week.

I promise that you will get better results without the HIIT. Unless you are eating 7000+ calories a day you are probably just going to end up breaking down your muscle beyond repair. There is a reason bodybuilders lower volume on cuts. As for HIIT being "proven" for anything, don't believe everything you hear. Cardio, as a rule, is terrible for pretty much anything besides cardiovascular health.

[eric1214]

Hi Built,

I see with your newest routine your leaving out iso work for Bis & Tris.
Do you still work them in?

I can only lift 3 days a week so I found this routine to be verrrrry helpful.

I have limited equipment(only DBs and machine) so was thinking about a routine like this:

Monday
Squats
Lunges
Shoulder Press
Arnies or lat raises

Tuesday
Clean & Press
Lat Pulldowns
Close grip pulldowns
Abs
Calves

Thursday
Bench
Incline Bench
Deadlift (not sure what kind to do?)
Leg Curls

Almost everything, bench,cleans,squats,etc. are done with DBs because thats all I have. Everything else, pulldowns,etc are done with a machine.

Will a routine like this still work?

Thanks for any help, you truly are an inspiration!:strong:

[OGROK]

Hi Built,

I see with your newest routine your leaving out iso work for Bis & Tris.
Do you still work them in?

I can only lift 3 days a week so I found this routine to be verrrrry helpful.

I have limited equipment(only DBs and machine) so was thinking about a routine like this:

Monday
Squats
Lunges
Shoulder Press
Arnies or lat raises

Tuesday
Clean & Press
Lat Pulldowns
Close grip pulldowns
Abs
Calves

Thursday
Bench
Incline Bench
Deadlift (not sure what kind to do?)
Leg Curls

Almost everything, bench,cleans,squats,etc. are done with DBs because thats all I have. Everything else, pulldowns,etc are done with a machine.

Will a routine like this still work?

Thanks for any help, you truly are an inspiration!:strong:

No, it will not work because dumbbells are not heavy enough to stimulate hypertrophy on big movements like squats.

[eric1214]

Oh, but with the equipment I have is this a good routine to follow?

I understand that in order to achieve my full potential I need to join a gym with proper equipment, but until then I am stuck with what I have.:cry:

[Bupp]

If the DB's are big enough to give you a good squat workout you can always swap in step up's/lunges for squats.

[charliebigspuds]

been looking here(WBB)for some hints for my next bulk and hell ive got more than i bargain'd for here.
thats me sorted for the next few months,
tryed some of the other routines on WBB with good results so cant wait till april when i start my new routine.
star in the making.
cheers.

[snow]

i still love this workout... any possible way to turn it into a 3 day workout? my gym is somewhat far and any cut down on gas is helpful to the wallet.

:outnumber:

[bfoley]

Marianne, I am going to start this routine this coming Monday, with a slight twist. In late August, I was playing softball (over 45 league, I'm 48), and I injured myself rounding second base. I pulled my right hamstring AND my right groin. Ouch. So now any leg work hurts too much to do. I've tried light (bar only) squats and leg press, but both cause too much discomfort. Leg extensions cause almost no discomfort, when using a light weight for high reps (15).

Anyway, what I was thinking of doing was this :
Monday : vertical pulling
Tuesday : vertical pushing
Thursday : horizontal pulling
Friday : horizontal pushing

I will stick the leg extensions on one (or two) of these training days.

Let me tell you, it stinks to be injured.

Brian

[salatheel]

Wait A Minute!!!hold The Presses!!!!built Doing Cardio!! I Feel Woozy....better Sit Down....

[PFM8241988]

i LOVE bgb... been doing it about 7 weeks now. how often should i switch up excersies, ive been doing the basic one they give you on the site, the example routine. can i just keep going or should i switch up the excercises every so often. and if so how often? thanks.

[Geeek]

Real Nice!!!

[The Bran Man]

I want to view this artical but it says "NOT FOUND" on the new site!?

[Daniel Clough]

We haven't imported it into the new site yet - I'll do it for the weekend :)

[xtian]

I love this routine. Been following it now for over 2.5 years.

[Daniel Clough]

Back Got Back (http://www.wannabebig.com/training/bodybuilding/baby-got-back/) by MariAnne Anderson

Baby Got Back Routine (http://www.wannabebig.com/training/routines/baby-got-back-routine/) by MariAnne Anderson

:)

[Clutch]

Where could i fit in some power cleans without losing rack pulls?

[F1Senna]

Now that is what I call a back!

[bamazav]

I started this routine this week. I am sold even after a short time. I will be recommending this trainging routine to all of my friends.:thumbup:

[bamazav]

Anyone else currently doing Baby Go Back? I have completed week one and love it.

[ThomasG]

Anyone have the link to the original thread?

I'm loving this routine thanks Marianne!

[bamazav]

Here ya go.Baby Got Back (http://www.wannabebig.com/training/bodybuilding/baby-got-back/) :strong:

[musclemick]

done BGB for 9 weeks, ate like a horse... gained 2.5kg of muscle and lost 1% bodyfat! Love BGB! Thanks MariAnne

[bamazav]

Way to go Mick! BGB is a great routine.