About to cut

[Jordanbcool]

If i see a thread about creatine one more time i will have to gouge out my eyeballs. I just went through 4 closed threads asking really stupid questions about creatine. ARRRRGH!

Thank you paul for closing almost all of those threads.:clap:

Anyways back on topic.

Im going to start cutting in a month and wanted to get together a good list of supplements to compliment my diet and training. Im looking for a combination of fat burning/muscle protection. Heres what i have so far.

Protein- Whey protein (the best of the best) Probably something pure like 100% whey from GNC. Caisan and soy arent as good in my opinion.

Vitamins- Centrum? I dont know the other brands but that seems fine for me

Creatine- Im not to sure if i should include this in a cutting diet??? Thoughts anyone....

Fish oils- Among the TONS of health benifits, it helps to prevent muscle breakdown.

L-glutamine- Also stops muscle break down.

Fat burner- Maybe hydroxycut hardcore? I've heard nothing but good things out of that but i dont like to waste money. So i might not even buy this at all.

Any other Suggestions or comments or thoughts would be appreciated.

-jordan

[Unreal]

Sounds like all you need is the fatloss stack from ALN and a bottle of fish oil. Has a good multivitamin, one of the best proteins out there, a good fatburner/appetite suppesor, and other stuff that will help.

L-glutamine is a waste. Your protein powder will have tons of it in it anyways, so just skip that.

[Jordanbcool]

Sounds like all you need is the fatloss stack from ALN and a bottle of fish oil. Has a good multivitamin, one of the best proteins out there, a good fatburner/appetite suppesor, and other stuff that will help.

L-glutamine is a waste. Your protein powder will have tons of it in it anyways, so just skip that.

ALN??

I usually buy pure products. They usually dont have "other" things in them but i guess i could get one with glutamine in it.

-jordan

[getfit]

Aln-atlargenutrition

[getfit]

http://www.atlargenutrition.com/nutrition_detail.php?products_id=10

[Jordanbcool]

http://www.atlargenutrition.com/nutrition_detail.php?products_id=10

is it worth $100 bucks?

[Built]

One of the AAs in whey IS glutamine. No need to supplement with it. I'm pretty sure that's what Unreal meant.

Creatine is excellent for cutting - zero calories, and helps your muscles work better.

And another one - salt. Yep. Salt. Also has zero calories and helps your muscles work better.

[mikey4402]

is it worth $100 bucks?
IMO no, just because i dont think you NEED that many supplement in order to have a good cut going on. im not saying Atlarge doesnt make good products becuase the do! but that many supplements arnt neccesary. same with your list you have going on. cross off L-glutamine because of the reasons mentioned before. i would cross off creatine since you will put on some water weight, yes its just water weight but your confidence will go up as your lbs go down not when they go up. maybe a fat loss stack, but its not need IMO if your cutting calories. soooooooooo i would just stick with a whey and multi, i have read bad things about centrum multi's but i dont know if i beleive it.

[Built]

Water weight is just that- water, not fat.

I used creatine and salt all the way through my cut last summer. Unless you need to drop water for a photo shoot or to make weight, leave both of these in your cutting program - it can help you cut fat and keep muscle - and that's the whole reason we do this.

[mikey4402]

Water weight is just that- water, not fat.

I used creatine and salt all the way through my cut last summer. Unless you need to drop water for a photo shoot or to make weight, leave both of these in your cutting program - it can help you cut fat and keep muscle - and that's the whole reason we do this.
i agree , i mentioned that its water... but when ever i used creatine ,cut or bulkn i would put on a lot of lbs on the scale (yes water). but still on a cut when your trying to see the numbers on the scale drop, it doesnt help your motivation if they are lbs are going up. thats my reasoning behind my comment

[mikey4402]

also may i ask why you supplement with salt i never heard of that before

[Built]

Same reason I use creatine - it pushes water into the muscle cells: http://chemo.net/sodium-.htm

[Built]

If you're using creatine through your bulk, you won't notice that you're holding water when you start to cut on it. Besides, it's not subcutaneous water - it's intramuscular. You won't look so flat.

[mikey4402]

Same reason I use creatine - it pushes water into the muscle cells: http://chemo.net/sodium-.htm
hmmm intresting thanks for that

[Built]

NP - it made cutting a LOT more pleasant last year than I thought it was going to be.

Hmmm. Less unpleasant? LOL! ;)

[Jordanbcool]

Water weight is just that- water, not fat.

I used creatine and salt all the way through my cut last summer. Unless you need to drop water for a photo shoot or to make weight, leave both of these in your cutting program - it can help you cut fat and keep muscle - and that's the whole reason we do this.

True. The scale influences me but to a degree. Like lets say in a month if i gained 30 pounds i'd worry. As long as i look good though does it honestly matter where the weight comes from?? My point is i'd rather be 185 pounds at 10% bodyfat then 170 pounds at 8-9%. I dont need to be super ripped. Edward norton in amercian history x is the the way i'd like to look this summer. Im surprised no one has suggested a fat burner.

So what im looking at now is. Whey protein, creatine, fish oil and maybe a multi.

-jordan

[Built]

The best thing I can say about a fatburner (and I likes my juicy, yummy, homemade EC stack) is that it gives you some energy for the workout, and it helps suppress appetite. There is a bit of a thermogenic effect, but the appetite suppression and energy are by far the bigger players.

[Jordanbcool]

The best thing I can say about a fatburner (and I likes my juicy, yummy, homemade EC stack) is that it gives you some energy for the workout, and it helps suppress appetite. There is a bit of a thermogenic effect, but the appetite suppression and energy are by far the bigger players.

Any suggestions?

[Jordanbcool]

Actually i just read your last post again. If thats really all most fat burners do then i'll save my money by buying some caffine pills and an entire farm full of different steamed veggies. For the added energy and appetite suppresion of course

-jordan

[Built]

Yes - homemade EC stack.

Ephedrine HCL + Caffeine in a 1:10 ratio. Most OTC Ephedrine comes in 8mg tablets - start with 8mg E with 100 mg C - 3x a day, titrate up to as much as 24mg E with 200 mg C - 3x a day.

To taper off, do the reverse, then drop the E, then the C. No caffeine withdrawal headaches that way.

[Jordanbcool]

Yes - homemade EC stack.

Ephedrine HCL + Caffeine in a 1:10 ratio. Most OTC Ephedrine comes in 8mg tablets - start with 8mg E with 100 mg C - 3x a day, titrate up to as much as 24mg E with 200 mg C - 3x a day.

To taper off, do the reverse, then drop the E, then the C. No caffeine withdrawal headaches that way.

They still sell ephedrine???? Over the counter nonetheless..

[Built]

In Canada and in the USA, they always have. It was the herb ephedra that got banned in the US. The drug Ephedrine is better anyway - pure, standardized dose.

[Jordanbcool]

In Canada and in the USA, they always have. It was the herb ephedra that got banned in the US. The drug Ephedrine is better anyway - pure, standardized dose.

ah i see. What what the price tag for your homemade EC stack?

[DavyRen]

As usual built is spot on with her advice, she gave me the same advice.
As far as the price goes....I got caffeine tablets (200mg each) and Ephedrine HCL (8mg each) from www.astronutrition.com

Pretty cheap but if you google on Ephedrine HCL no doubt you'll find cheaper sources. Do a search on this site i'm sure there is a topic for cheap Ephedrine HCL somewhere

Have you thought of giving Thermocin a go from At Large Nutrition?

[Jordanbcool]

As usual built is spot on with her advice, she gave me the same advice.
As far as the price goes....I got caffeine tablets (200mg each) and Ephedrine HCL (8mg each) from www.astronutrition.com

Pretty cheap but if you google on Ephedrine HCL no doubt you'll find cheaper sources. Do a search on this site i'm sure there is a topic for cheap Ephedrine HCL somewhere

Have you thought of giving Thermocin a go from At Large Nutrition?

Not bad, thanks for the link. I figure i'd rather buy some then make it myself as i'd probably screw it up. O yes, and i have to ask....will taking this ephedrine/caffeine combo encourage muscle loss? Basically if i take this will i lose muscle mass. Im already prepared to lose SOME and i stress some. You always lose a little muscle when cutting but i'd like to keep it to a bare minimum. Thanks again.

-jordan

[Jordanbcool]

Anyone know if this stuff would affect muscle loss???? I'd like to get someones input thats actually used this stack.

-jordan

Also i want to get down to 10% bodyfat by the first week of june. If i use this stack (ephedrine+ caffeine) will i be able to drop down from 13% (what im at now) to 10% in 4 weeks. Im not going to starve myself, 2500 cals a day, cardio 3 times a week, weight lifting 4 times a week and swimming for 30 mins twice a week. If i can i'd like to because that means i could add a few more pounds to my frame before i have to cut. I've been making HUGE gains these past two weeks (6 pounds total) since being on a weight gainer. At first i was afraid it would be fat but doing a "mirror" check i found that to be a mistake. Im simply packing on alot and that extra month could help out alot bulking wise.....

[Holto]

Don't buy Centrum.

Get a multi without preservatives.

[chris mason]

The AtLarge Fat Loss stack is a GREAT deal. It saves you a ton of money relative to buying the products individually and it provides all of the supplements you would ever need to maximize your fat loss.

That said, if you are on a tight budget I would suggest you go with Thermocin and Nitrean. Nitrean to supplement your protein intake while you are on a calorie restricted diet and Thermocin to help burn fat and suppress appetite.

Chris

[TwiloMike]

Nitrean has been very good to me. I recommend it over any other protein I've used (tastes great, too).

[chris mason]

Read this: http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=75423

[Jordanbcool]

Read this: http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=75423

read it, looks good.....that answers one problem.....

does anyone know or think i can get down to (from 13%) to 10% bodyfat in 6 weeks, or 4 weeks.....2500 cals a day, 3 days cardio, 4 days weightlifting, 2 days of 30 minutes swimming.....the reason i ask is because i'd like to bulk as much as POSSIBLE. Of course since the cut will be so short i'd have to resort to getting help from fat burners. Hence the post in the first place.

-jordan

BTW. i do not want to lose more then 3-5 pounds of muscle.

[Built]

How many pounds of fat do you have to lose to get from 13% to 10%? Plan on a pound a week.

[Jordanbcool]

How many pounds of fat do you have to lose to get from 13% to 10%? Plan on a pound a week.

even with a fat burner??

Right now i weigh 185 but i know when im done my bulk i'll probably weigh more like 192. I just thought you could lose more fat quicker then regular dieting. You can easily lose a pound a week without a fat burner (a pound of fat by the way..).

-jordan

[Built]

Lose much more than a pound a week on a conventional diet (fatburner or no) and you risk muscle loss.

You may choose to do a PSMF instead - ask someone with experience with this type of diet.

[Jordanbcool]

Lose much more than a pound a week on a conventional diet (fatburner or no) and you risk muscle loss.

You may choose to do a PSMF instead - ask someone with experience with this type of diet.

PSMF?

[Built]

Protein Sparing Modified Fast.

Google is your friend.

;)

[Jordanbcool]

Protein Sparing Modified Fast.

Google is your friend.

;)

lol i was hoping you wouldnt post until i actually figured out what it was. i was in the middle of a search on here when you posted.

Damn, if only all my threads were answered this quickly:nod:

[Optimum08]

im about to start a PSMF...for about 2 weeks leading up to spring break...you can also check the At Large Nutrtion Thread for Organichu's amazing results with his PSMF...basically its starving yourself with getting enough protein...on Saturday im going to start and the breakdown is going to be something like this 1330 cals, 260g pro, 16.5 g fat (6 from fish oil), 20.65 g carbs...

[Jordanbcool]

im about to start a PSMF...for about 2 weeks leading up to spring break...you can also check the At Large Nutrtion Thread for Organichu's amazing results with his PSMF...basically its starving yourself with getting enough protein...on Saturday im going to start and the breakdown is going to be something like this 1330 cals, 260g pro, 16.5 g fat (6 from fish oil), 20.65 g carbs...

Afterwards wont your body quadruple your fat storage because it thinks it was starving. After all thats pretty much what your doing. Doesnt seem like a very good "diet"...

-jordan

[Optimum08]

yes you will gain all the weight back and then some if you go back to eating like a fat *****, but if u gradually extend into a clean diet then no your body won't "quadruple fat stores"....

P.S.-this is not a new diet, it is an established crash diet that works to minimize LBM loss while losing the most amount of bf possible...this is not something many people can commit to and work with without cheating cuz of its extreme nature...

[Jordanbcool]

yes you will gain all the weight back and then some if you go back to eating like a fat *****, but if u gradually extend into a clean diet then no your body won't "quadruple fat stores"....

P.S.-this is not a new diet, it is an established crash diet that works to minimize LBM loss while losing the most amount of bf possible...this is not something many people can commit to and work with without cheating cuz of its extreme nature...

How long do you plan on doing this diet. I might consider actually doing it...

-jordan