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Spawn_XX
02-21-2006, 10:09 PM
so i have my fat and protein sources straight, but what about carbs? would i be ok if i got *all* of my carbs from raw food (fruits/veggies)? or do i need stuff like rice and oats, etc.

i train hard and consume enough protein and fat and eat every 3 hours, but am still not growing (and no, i do not have a fast metabolism. i'm a decent bit out of shape) or improving much shape wise. if anything i look worse than december 1st 06 when i started tryng to eat more/work out(although strength is improving very well) and stopped jogging as much, but look worse.

i don't know if it could be harming me in any way? am i somehow cancelling out the benefit from one another? not bulking and not losing bodyfat? but i thought fruits/veggies were good for you.. what's up? what am i missing?

signed,

:newbie:

Shao-LiN
02-21-2006, 10:27 PM
Eat more.

Built
02-21-2006, 10:58 PM
Yep - ya gotta eat more to gain. Are you tracking on www.fitday.com?

Spawn_XX
02-22-2006, 08:00 AM
Yep - ya gotta eat more to gain. Are you tracking on www.fitday.com?

not yet. i'm in too crappy of shape to track calories just yet, but i'm within 80-90% and eat right, so i should be seeing better gains than this.

but back to the carb quality - if i were to eat more, could i just be stuffing myself with more bananas and other fruits/veggies, or do the carbs need to come from cooked bulky stuff like oatmeal, rice, potatos??? i just feel much better (both physically and mentally) when i avoid the bulky cooked food

:thumbup:

Titanium_Jim
02-22-2006, 08:19 AM
The only way to know for sure that you're getting what you need is to count your calories and your consumed protein, fat, and carbs. Make sure you get at least 1g protein pre lb of bodyweight, .5g fat per pound, and if you're bulking, just count your calories with the fat and protein minimums described, and after about a month, if you haven't gained a pound, up the calories by 500 a day or so, depending on what the number was to begin with. If you feel you gained too much weight (a change in your diet can result in as much as 10lbs gain in the first month, and this can be ok, but more than that is probably too much) then cut back maybe 500 cals but keep protein and fat up even with the less calories.

eatit
02-22-2006, 09:31 AM
i guess you could get your carbs from raw veggies.... but good luck trying to bulk up on raw carrots and cauliflower.

with fruits on the other hand it's quite doable. But why miss out of a lovely, steam warm bowl of oatmeal? (i can't even begin to say how much i love oats) or mashed or baked potatoes?

i'd recommend figuring out how many carbs you need then shopping around and figuring out which foods will get you there comfortably. (hint: not raw veggies)

Spawn_XX
02-22-2006, 11:32 AM
The only way to know for sure that you're getting what you need is to count your calories and your consumed protein, fat, and carbs. Make sure you get at least 1g protein pre lb of bodyweight, .5g fat per pound, and if you're bulking, just count your calories with the fat and protein minimums described, and after about a month, if you haven't gained a pound, up the calories by 500 a day or so, depending on what the number was to begin with. If you feel you gained too much weight (a change in your diet can result in as much as 10lbs gain in the first month, and this can be ok, but more than that is probably too much) then cut back maybe 500 cals but keep protein and fat up even with the less calories.

morning: spoon of honey and 2-3 nuts (well chewed) before running
after running: glass of orange/grapefruit juice (fresh squeezed), protein shake with fat free milk (about 34g of protein), and a couple bananas
snacking for the next 2-3 hours: carrots or bananas (4-5 bananas usually) and egg whites (usually egg whites, 3-5)
meal (right after i'm done snacking): a spoon full of rice/etc. and chicken or other meat, and a bowl of salad (no dressing, maybe lemon. about 30-40g of protein)
3-4 hours later: can of tuna, some nuts or PB, and some salad (with lemon)
3 hours later: protein shake or some meat, with just some PB/milk, some salad
2.5 hours later: fresh made apple juice
30min-hour later, right before sleep: can of tuna, PB, couple egg whites, and glass of fat free milk

I don't think protein is my problem - i have pretty low amount of muscle when i started and its still relatively low, with the amount of protein i consume it should be enough for at least decent muscle growth (nothing too serious that you guys are doing yet). seem to be getting enough fat too. the only thing i can track it down to are carbs - if fruit carbs are ok, i'll start adding several more bananas / other fruit throughout the day.


i'd recommend figuring out how many carbs you need then shopping around and figuring out which foods will get you there comfortably. (hint: not raw veggies)

i'm fine with more fruits than veggies. bananas are very high in carbs/calories for being a fruit, so that would be the first choice of carbs

why miss out on the meal? honestly, i don't find them appealing anymore. a warm bowl of oatmeal will taste good at the time of eating, but then loads up my stomach more than fruits do and causes me to feel low on energy and literally slows my mind down and makes me feel like crap if i keep on eating that stuff

appreciate the advice. i'll start doing fit-day too, just want to establish my diet a little more.

and most of the carbs WOULD be fruits, sorry, should have specified that.

:read:

ddegroff
02-22-2006, 11:41 AM
i eat oats/applesauce in the am, and then brown rice around 5pm... The rest is veggies. As long as your getting enough carbs throughout the day then you should be fine. I know 30 (4" long) green beans fills me up and its like 50cals if that.

eatit
02-22-2006, 05:14 PM
why miss out on the meal? honestly, i don't find them appealing anymore. a warm bowl of oatmeal will taste good at the time of eating, but then loads up my stomach more than fruits do and causes me to feel low on energy and literally slows my mind down and makes me feel like crap if i keep on eating that stuff

fair enough, in the end it's all what works for you. Something to keep in mind that i just thought of. When you say fill your carbs what exactly do you mean? It is possible to bulk up in ketosis (uber super low carb state). So you don't need carbs. They just help with energy.

Spawn_XX
02-22-2006, 09:55 PM
fair enough, in the end it's all what works for you. Something to keep in mind that i just thought of. When you say fill your carbs what exactly do you mean? It is possible to bulk up in ketosis (uber super low carb state). So you don't need carbs. They just help with energy.

well e veryone says eat more, so i am. i really believe i take enough protein for decent growth of my ****ty for now body, same with fat. if i consume more of those 2 just to get to the calories needed i'll probably get sick. so onto carbs.

just working and trying different things to see what works for me well, because a low carb diet wasn't showing a thing for results. eating the other carbs (breads, oats, rice, honey (more of it), etc.) caused me to gain too much fat and feel down and slow all the time. so figure i'll change the quality of carbs and see how it works out (i'm sure it was due to food, as i was doing some cardio).

thanks for the help. i hope after putting in the time and effort i'll finally be able to find what works and make the progress that i want to, and not be a girly-man and put up some pictures. :strong:

John04Civic
02-23-2006, 08:37 AM
Go ahead and post pictures buddy, you do it to show where you are starting at. Before and afters are BIG confidence boosters.

Spawn_XX
02-23-2006, 09:52 AM
Go ahead and post pictures buddy, you do it to show where you are starting at. Before and afters are BIG confidence boosters.

i have the pics, but no point in posting now, they look like ****. i know what i have to do and what i have to work on, so it wouldn't do much to post them on here just yet :smoke: but after i get into better shape, for sure.

IRN-BRU
02-27-2006, 04:29 PM
You are worrying too much about the details. Basically you want to either bulk 1lb/week, or cut 1-3lb/week (depends on BF%).

Weigh yourself every morning and write it down. If you're not on track, adjust your total calories. It will vary day to day, but look for the general trend.

When starting a bulk, notice that your water weight will jump up a few pounds in the first few days, dont be too alarmed keep going until the weight gain levels.

I dont think bananas are great carbs, they are high in fruit sugar. One a day is fine. Use oats and other low GI carbs like wholegrain bread, especially in the morning, to give you a steady release of carbs all day.

The higher BF% you have, the more fat you gain when bulking. If you're feeling too fat, cut first until it gets difficult to drop more fat.

Spawn_XX
02-28-2006, 08:49 AM
I dont think bananas are great carbs, they are high in fruit sugar. One a day is fine. Use oats and other low GI carbs like wholegrain bread, especially in the morning, to give you a steady release of carbs all day.

what is the reason that you would want that? i thought it was about calories in. vs out? not questioning it at all, just trying to understand the logic behind it


The higher BF% you have, the more fat you gain when bulking. If you're feeling too fat, cut first until it gets difficult to drop more fat.

thanks. this has been a dilemma for me - when started to get in shape i couldn't do any upper body workouts and didn't know the importance of eating often and more calories, and just started jogging/running a lot. I lost a lot of weight, but with it i lost whatever muscle i had left.

after i started the bulk i guess my diet was pretty off so i ended up gaining more fat that i'd like, and not as much muscle. now i'm at a ratio of still fairly little muscle, but with more fat than i would like (6'1, 175lb now, probably 15lb of fat :cry: ). cutting is hard, because i have little muscle my metabolism/calorie burning is pretty slow, but on the other hand I don't want to bulk because of the fat/muscle ratio that you mentioned above. i'm going to take your advice though and keep trying to cut.

thanks again