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View Full Version : How much do you NEED to eat?



Benji
03-08-2006, 04:03 PM
Ok im wanting to gain about 15kg by June/July time, is this possible and healthy? IF so how many calories am i needed to take roughly? I see you gotta eat more and more the bigger you are but is there some like rule thumb on this, like there is with having 1 gram of protein per pound of bodyweight?
Currently weigh in at about 80kg's..
At the moment iv been training for about 3weeks and having about 4000 calories a day, with about 180grams of protein, gained about 1 kg a week. Of course if i do the maths id make that target but im guessing because iv just started training again the weight piles on at first and im gonna hit a brick wall at sum point for weeks.. Feedback and suggestions on how to gain more mass once i hit the wall please! Theres only so much i can eat and afford lol :bang:

bigedge
03-08-2006, 04:08 PM
calorie calculator - clicky (http://www.muscletech.com/CALCULATORS/CALORIE/Calorie_Calculator.shtml?text)

Benji
03-08-2006, 04:34 PM
That calculator can't be right? For the average man its 2500 calories.. iv just entered the info and it says 3196 calories?! Thats only 600 more than a 'normal' person that can't be right?:>

eatit
03-08-2006, 05:18 PM
how concerned are you with fat gain?

go the Dave Gulledge way and force yourself to drink a gallon of whole milk a day along with stuffing your face and you'll pack on weight.

Whether or you end up look big and mean or like a sack of potatoes is another story.

Optimum08
03-08-2006, 05:19 PM
It takes a lot more work than a online calorie counter, which by the way are probably some of the most inaccurate things out there. To the OP, you want to gain about 30 lbs. in 5 months? It is doable but will sacrifice the cutness that most people desire. To cater your diet you must establish a maintenaince caloric intake and increase that week by week until you achieve your desired weight gain per week and keep up that caloric intake.

Shao-LiN
03-08-2006, 05:35 PM
You should eat however much your body is telling you to eat. Your body does communicate with you. Simple scenarios: losing weight? Eating less than maintenance. Staying at the same weight? Not eating enough. Gaining weight? Great. Gaining too much weight? Eating too much.

Spence
03-08-2006, 08:54 PM
From my own experience and practice I've figured out my own body's needs; I've learned pretty much from this experience that you should really eat when your body tells you to. This is key. By eating frequently (6-8 times a day) it promotes the storage of glycogen and optimum use of energy in the body rather than gorging which will store excess broken down sugars as fat. Eat A LOT. Preferably frequently. Try to get as much Omega-3 as possible (eggs, fish) as this helps with the absorption of aminos.

Taking an Omega supplement I wouldn't recommend as those often are loaded with Omega-6-9 as well which are important for your body but in excess assist in the development of HDL's (Bad News for the heart!). Salmon Oil supplements perhaps if you're serious though self-supplementing isn't always a great idea as that can lead to unnecessay imbalances (such as HDL's) unless you're well advised and learned.

Sorry for this lengthy post. Basically: follow the body. If it feels like something it's because it needs something. Eat frequently rather than gorging which will lessen the possibility of expanding those fat cells storing energy. Instead give yourself energy when needed but keep it constantly coming. A quick protein shake at night helps too that way the body won't slow and take much needed energy from muscles.

Best of luck, peace.

Jordanbcool
03-08-2006, 09:03 PM
Haha. Go to an all you can eat buffet :)

You pay like $10 bucks for unlimited food!!!!!!!!!!

wooooo

10 bucks a day isnt bad....just go at 12 and stuff yourself to death. You'll get like 10000 in one sitting.

-jordan

BTW. Dont actually do that lol

smalls
03-08-2006, 09:41 PM
From my own experience and practice I've figured out my own body's needs; I've learned pretty much from this experience that you should really eat when your body tells you to. This is key. By eating frequently (6-8 times a day) it promotes the storage of glycogen and optimum use of energy in the body rather than gorging which will store excess broken down sugars as fat. Eat A LOT. Preferably frequently. Try to get as much Omega-3 as possible (eggs, fish) as this helps with the absorption of aminos.

Taking an Omega supplement I wouldn't recommend as those often are loaded with Omega-6-9 as well which are important for your body but in excess assist in the development of HDL's (Bad News for the heart!). Salmon Oil supplements perhaps if you're serious though self-supplementing isn't always a great idea as that can lead to unnecessay imbalances (such as HDL's) unless you're well advised and learned.

Sorry for this lengthy post. Basically: follow the body. If it feels like something it's because it needs something. Eat frequently rather than gorging which will lessen the possibility of expanding those fat cells storing energy. Instead give yourself energy when needed but keep it constantly coming. A quick protein shake at night helps too that way the body won't slow and take much needed energy from muscles.

Best of luck, peace.


Sorry bro, but could you possibly quote where you got some of that info or try in some way to prove it to be true. Specifically these parts:

"you should really eat when your body tells you to" --I havent felt hungry in over 4 months, does this mean i shouldnt eat?

"If it feels like something it's because it needs something."

"By eating frequently (6-8 times a day) it promotes the storage of glycogen and optimum use of energy in the body rather than gorging which will store excess broken down sugars as fat." --- Your going to have to back up the fact that the same amount of calories in an overall time period are going to be stored as fat just because of meal spacing (hint, what is the magic number, 6 hours 24hours, hint 2 it's an impossible question to answer) But please try as it would be nice to have this info.

"for your body but in excess assist in the development of HDL's (Bad News for the heart!). Salmon Oil supplements perhaps if you're serious though self-supplementing isn't always a great idea as that can lead to unnecessay imbalances (such as HDL's) unless you're well advised and learned. "

----possibly a typo? (cuz HDL's the good stuff)


I dont mean to be rude and i realize your just trying to help, but when you come off sounding very sure of the info that your giving and it turns out to not only be wrong but the exact opposite in some cases your going to be called out to clarify yourself. Welcome to WBB.

BTW, that calorie counter is rediculous. It suggested 3900 cals for me to gain weight when in the last month I had to get over 7600 to make the scale move at all. There is too much variability to listen to BS, you have to figure it out for your own body.

jmoss
03-08-2006, 09:58 PM
how does one figure it out

brickt.
03-08-2006, 10:04 PM
n the last month I had to get over 7600 to make the scale move

Oh, God. What do you eat to total that much? You got my props.

Also, to the 'listen to your body guy' I also don't agree with you. If I listened to my body, I'd be one fat ****, whilst others wouldn't gain ever, and would actually lose weight.

smalls
03-08-2006, 10:42 PM
how does one figure it out



Simple scenarios: losing weight? Eating less than maintenance. Staying at the same weight? Not eating enough. Gaining weight? Great. Gaining too much weight? Eating too much.


So just count calories and there ya go. If your not gaining add 200 cals per day until you are.



Oh, God. What do you eat to total that much? You got my props.

Also, to the 'listen to your body guy' I also don't agree with you. If I listened to my body, I'd be one fat ****, whilst others wouldn't gain ever, and would actually lose weight.


I've been getting about 9 shakes a day. 2 cups skim milk+3 scoops whey+1 tablespoon olive oil+1 cup oatmeal+ 1 banana or some malto. That's it give or take. Meals before bed I add egg powder and my PWO protein is just whey and malto+dex. Give or take. A couple days I got well over 8000. My girlfriend complains a lot. I'm looking forward to dieting only for the fact I will feel half descent.

Spartan936
03-08-2006, 10:50 PM
Wow smalls, that's incredible. Nice job. What are your stats?

Slim Schaedle
03-09-2006, 12:24 AM
I've been getting about 9 shakes a day. 2 cups skim milk+3 scoops whey+1 tablespoon olive oil+1 cup oatmeal+ 1 banana or some malto. That's it give or take. Meals before bed I add egg powder and my PWO protein is just whey and malto+dex. Give or take. A couple days I got well over 8000. My girlfriend complains a lot. I'm looking forward to dieting only for the fact I will feel half descent.

I'm in this same boat and it's taking me about 6,000 cals each day just to get up to 213-ish (from 190 only a few months ago)

My shakes are bigger than yours normally but not as many. Bottom line is that it just sucks sometimes.

Chipotle has been quite a good friend lately, though.

Cutting begins soon.

smalls
03-09-2006, 01:20 AM
Wow smalls, that's incredible. Nice job. What are your stats?


Thanks. 6' 244lbs 15-16% BF (bodpod 15.4 hydrostatic 14.8 about 9 lbs ago)



I'm in this same boat and it's taking me about 6,000 cals each day just to get up to 213-ish (from 190 only a few months ago)

My shakes are bigger than yours normally but not as many. Bottom line is that it just sucks sometimes.

Chipotle has been quite a good friend lately, though.

Cutting begins soon.

At 213 you still look better than me though so screw you.
It really does suck. I've never even liked eating so for me it's never fun. Every time I start bulking I think "this isnt so bad, I can't remember why I hate it so much" Give it a few weeks and my gut is so destended I can barely breath at night. Getting stronger is nice though.


Cutting certainly has it's benefits.

Shao-LiN
03-09-2006, 01:25 AM
how does one figure it out

Not rocket science. Eat until you're gaining weight.

Davidelmo
03-09-2006, 02:41 AM
Smalls, that's impressive - your diet AND your stats! :o

I always thought you were small because of your name - but you're a goddamm beast!

smalls
03-09-2006, 01:33 PM
Thanks, when I joined the site I think I was around 160-70. Started lifting at 140lbs. Hence the name.

Spence
03-09-2006, 02:12 PM
smalls

- no problem I'll go searching through my uni-texts and get back to you for sure - and YES thank you I meant Low-Density Lipoprotein (sorry everyone) as those are the ones that deposit cholesterol on vessel walls rather than HDL's.
- as for eating when you're body feels like it, I would be inclined to think (so yes this is my own thoughts clearly) that if you stopped eating you would need food. Hence your body would tell you to eat. Do you currently eat well? If you take care of yourself then your body doesn't tell you any differently because you have it under control. ---- and no worries I don't think you came off sounding rude at all; it's important to clarify and correct me if I'm wrong for everyone's sake (especially my own)!

Spence
03-09-2006, 07:26 PM
smalls you said "Your going to have to back up the fact that the same amount of calories in an overall time period are going to be stored as fat just because of meal spacing (hint, what is the magic number, 6 hours 24hours, hint 2 it's an impossible question to answer) But please try as it would be nice to have this info."

So I went looking through a text to try and clarify for both of us...so I hope this helps - this is what I was trying to get at...
So:
Why does spacing meals to about 6-8 a day (eating every 2-3 hours) reduce the amount of body fat stored and promote glycogen storage as well as help with muscle building? Well spacing meals works to control
our blood-sugar levels. By speacing meals and food intake to every 2-3 hours it helps to keep insulin levels tight (generally around the same levels without spikes or dropping. Dropping happens when you don't eat for a prolonged period of time or insulin levels spike when you shove face).

The reason why tight insulin levels are important is because of how insulin effects the body.

Insulin helps with:

Glycogen synthesis as it forces storage of glucose in the liver and muscle cells in the form of glycogen. Low levels of insulin cause liver cells to convert glycogen to glucose (where it will be exreted into the blood).

Insulin also increases amino acid uptake which means cells actually absorb these circulating amino acids...a lack of insulin inhibits this absorption. By controlling amino acid uptake it controls protein synthesis. (who doesn't want to keep building muscle?!)

Controling this amino acid uptake optimizes the decrease in proteinolysis which is a reduction of protein degradation (which happens with insulin levels dropping). SO dropping insulin levels increases protein degradation to it's glucose form. What I am trying to say is if you keep insulins levels constant it keeps everything else constant that helps with the synthesis of protein in the muscles...dropping insulin levels results in protein degradation.

I understand this wasn't very well organized but perhaps that makes sense? If anyone can tell me where I'm wrong that'd be awesome 'cause I'd hate to be giving out wrong info AND doing things poorly myself!

As for my information you asked:
Nutrition and health / Gerald Wiseman. 2002
Autoimmunity and Genetics; Insulin Synthesis and Secretion / Darzin. 2003

In regards to the calorie calculator I found it was way off for myself!

Slim Schaedle
03-09-2006, 09:19 PM
Why does spacing meals to about 6-8 a day (eating every 2-3 hours) reduce the amount of body fat stored and promote glycogen storage as well as help with muscle building? Well spacing meals works to control
our blood-sugar levels. By speacing meals and food intake to every 2-3 hours it helps to keep insulin levels tight (generally around the same levels without spikes or dropping. Dropping happens when you don't eat for a prolonged period of time or insulin levels spike when you shove face)
While meal spacing will have an effect on blood glucose levels, the dependant factor to be most concerned with is the glycemic-index rating of the food being eaten. For example, having a dextrose shake every 2-3 hours is going to result in a higher concentration of blood glucose as well as increased insulin release (provided that liver glycogen is full) than eating an extremely large meal consiting of low glycemic foods. Meal spacing is not the critical issue in hormone control. Amount and type of food is. Smalls knows this, but he just wanted a reference or evidence.


[The reason why tight insulin levels are important is because of how insulin effects the body.

Insulin helps with:

Glycogen synthesis as it forces storage of glucose in the liver and muscle cells in the form of glycogen. Low levels of insulin cause liver cells to convert glycogen to glucose (where it will be exreted into the blood).

Insulin is not required for the transport of glucose to the liver. Glucose is only insulin dependant for transport into skeletal muscle and adipose tissue.

Also, it is not low insulin levels that stimulate conversion of glycogen to glucose. Hormones such as glucagon and glucocorticoids (such as cortisol) are are released when blood sugar is low. Insulin levels are low as a result.

"Tight" insulin levels don't really have much to do with the above factors unless you, or the original author, is refering to chronic diseases such as diabetes...meaning, the actions I outlined will still be performed unless the person has some sort of condition.

However, control of fatty acid synthesis, fat tissue acumulation, and obsesity is dependant on "tight" insulin levels.


Hopes this helps

Spence
03-09-2006, 11:32 PM
Also, it is not low insulin levels that stimulate conversion of glycogen to glucose. Hormones such as glucagon and glucocorticoids (such as cortisol) are are released when blood sugar is low. Insulin levels are low as a result.

"Tight" insulin levels don't really have much to do with the above factors unless you, or the original author, is refering to chronic diseases such as diabetes...meaning, the actions I outlined will still be performed unless the person has some sort of condition.

However, control of fatty acid synthesis, fat tissue acumulation, and obsesity is dependant on "tight" insulin levels.

Hopes this helps


Hmmm. Alrite wicked - thanks for the new lesson!
I knew I would be learning things by checking this place out.
Though if smalls already knew it would've saved me time if he had corrected me fully as you did; but it's too bad I didn't reach that error myself in looking - maybe next time I will.
Cheers

smalls
03-10-2006, 12:56 AM
smalls you said "Your going to have to back up the fact that the same amount of calories in an overall time period are going to be stored as fat just because of meal spacing (hint, what is the magic number, 6 hours 24hours, hint 2 it's an impossible question to answer) But please try as it would be nice to have this info."

So I went looking through a text to try and clarify for both of us...so I hope this helps - this is what I was trying to get at...
So:
Why does spacing meals to about 6-8 a day (eating every 2-3 hours) reduce the amount of body fat stored and promote glycogen storage as well as help with muscle building? Well spacing meals works to control
our blood-sugar levels. By speacing meals and food intake to every 2-3 hours it helps to keep insulin levels tight (generally around the same levels without spikes or dropping. Dropping happens when you don't eat for a prolonged period of time or insulin levels spike when you shove face).

The reason why tight insulin levels are important is because of how insulin effects the body.

Insulin helps with:

Glycogen synthesis as it forces storage of glucose in the liver and muscle cells in the form of glycogen. Low levels of insulin cause liver cells to convert glycogen to glucose (where it will be exreted into the blood).

Insulin also increases amino acid uptake which means cells actually absorb these circulating amino acids...a lack of insulin inhibits this absorption. By controlling amino acid uptake it controls protein synthesis. (who doesn't want to keep building muscle?!)

Controling this amino acid uptake optimizes the decrease in proteinolysis which is a reduction of protein degradation (which happens with insulin levels dropping). SO dropping insulin levels increases protein degradation to it's glucose form. What I am trying to say is if you keep insulins levels constant it keeps everything else constant that helps with the synthesis of protein in the muscles...dropping insulin levels results in protein degradation.

I understand this wasn't very well organized but perhaps that makes sense? If anyone can tell me where I'm wrong that'd be awesome 'cause I'd hate to be giving out wrong info AND doing things poorly myself!

As for my information you asked:
Nutrition and health / Gerald Wiseman. 2002
Autoimmunity and Genetics; Insulin Synthesis and Secretion / Darzin. 2003

In regards to the calorie calculator I found it was way off for myself!

Slim pretty much summed up the info on this but I did want to add one thing. Things like protein degradation and even glycogen breakdown are not only dependant on insulin levels in fact that's not going to be the deciding factor. Caloric intake and (as slim stated) food choices are going to affect this huge cascade of events. The REASON insulin levels are going to be low is a lack of food going in your mouth which results in low circulating amino acids and glucose which brings on glucagon etc.
The reason that's important is that the original poster is worried about gaining weight, in which case overall calories should be the primary concern and things like low calorie diets and low insulin levels shouldnt even be a factor.