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WV_ironman
03-09-2006, 10:14 AM
I hurt my shoulder a few years ago trying to get 405 raw. I am working my way back up, but I can't touch the bar to my chest or do any kind of heavy rack work without it getting really bad and not being able to lift heavy for sometime. Should I only work out in a shirt? Is there anything I can do for rack work? I try to keep my body weight down and look somewhat good. Should I not do that, because I need the extra weight? I take coffee sometime to work out and that makes it hurt more soimetimes, should I stop that and if I am tired maybe not work out as hard?

drew
03-09-2006, 10:34 AM
Strengthen the rotators. Don't do any overhead work. You should probably only be lifting heavy with a shirt.

KevinStarke
03-09-2006, 11:36 AM
I hurt my shoulders a while back too but lots of rotator cuff exercise, not doing overhead pressing, and adjusting my bench form has me back on track. Thats a sick bench you have but i'm very skeptical of your shrug.. is that with a barbell?

WV_ironman
03-09-2006, 11:37 AM
What heavy shoulder work would you do? One bench day a week or two? I don't like the wideside speed day thing. I think it's more my ego then anything. I tried some rotator stuff, but I think I have to much scare tissue.

WV_ironman
03-09-2006, 11:40 AM
Yes a barbell. It's ok I would be to. Everyone in the gym stops to watch me. At that weight there not the best but I go up and down. Better then most peoples light shrug.

KevinStarke
03-09-2006, 11:41 AM
I dont do any heavy shoulder work at all, rotators wont have it. Whats your bench style like. Are you bringing it down elbows out? Half way down? Full range?

KevinStarke
03-09-2006, 11:42 AM
With a deadlift of 405 x 5 I'd honestly like to see a video of you even holding 700 for as long as it would take to do 5 reps.

jkirkpatrick
03-09-2006, 11:54 AM
^ I love this guy! He'll call you on anything that seems....suspicious. :thumbup:

KevinStarke
03-09-2006, 12:10 PM
Its just interesting to me is all, I see elite level powerlifters train all the time and guys that are pulling 700 in competition arent doing even their powershrugs with weight like 700 lbs... and they weigh a good deal more.

jkirkpatrick
03-09-2006, 12:15 PM
True. Hell, seeing your bench was cool. I'd love to see this on video as well.

WV_ironman
03-09-2006, 01:20 PM
I am 29 first off and have been working out since I was 14. I have no Butt and that makes it hard to pull from the floor. I have worked out with some of the top benchers in the world. I live in West Virginia and we have a few guy that I have work out with that are up there. I am not to far from OH and you know the people that are there and I have worked out with some people that have been to westside. Shruging you don't have to pull off the floor. Butt taken out. I also use straps. I couldn't hold it with just my hands. I don't use a rev-grip on it that makes it hard to shrug at that weight. If I was not tell the truth I would have made a better deadlift don't you think. I am not here to look good that is what the gym is for.

WV_ironman
03-09-2006, 01:28 PM
I don't work out with them any more and thought it would be nice if someone on here could help. Just put that up there, not looking to be cool. Thought it would help with people writing me back not think I just started or am a 200lbs bencher and I thoughtit might make the reply better but I guess not.

KevinStarke
03-09-2006, 01:58 PM
Well you must have one hell of a strong core and strong legs to be able to maintain stability with 700 lbs in your hands, straps or not.

WV_ironman
03-09-2006, 02:20 PM
Yes I do, I boxed and Kickboxed in the Army and at gym a little after. I think that helped my core. I can't squat 300, but can leg press alot. I don't have the butt muscle, it's like 2in long. It's kind of sad. that why I like the bench and want to get it back up and start going to competitions.

Sensei
03-09-2006, 02:41 PM
It'd be helpful to see you bench. Have you had enough time to heal completely? What kind of strengthening/flexibility work for your shoulder/rotator cuff are you doing? Did you do a lot of shirt work before? Do you have someone to help you w. the shirt every training session? What kind of training are you doing now?

WV_ironman
03-09-2006, 02:53 PM
I don't have a clip right now but can get one. I don't arch to high I need work on that. I have a shirt don't use it, but am going to start. I just ordered a rage. I start elbow out and move them in as I go down. I stop about an inch off my chest to save my rotator. I stop for a second and go back up, I got in to BB so I go up slow (need work on that to). I do alot of rear shoulder and front. I do mil press and sides also. No rotator stuff or flexibility. I have never used a shirt. I went to competition when I was like 15-17 and did raw. I thought I could cut the back out of my old one to train with. I have a guy that started training with me but he doesn't always come.... Thank you so much sensei for getting back to that and any help...

KevinStarke
03-09-2006, 05:24 PM
Going that extra half inch and touching your chest isnt gonna effect your rotators if your form is on key. A video clip will definitelly help us see if there are any problems but if your shoulders are still hurting I wouldnt be doing any military presses or any kind of shoulder raises. On a side note what does having a small ass have to do with squatting or deadlifting?

WV_ironman
03-09-2006, 10:23 PM
Your starting to scare me. I am in the med field and it does. I know this not because I made it up but because I went to school for it, the inch thing is where it puts the weight on your rotators or should I say over pulls on it. I am also an ISSA trainer. I was wanting help from someone with a little more info then me. So maybe someone like a trainer or med field or in the game some years and have been hurt. I am not being mean but at 18 I thought knew everything and was the strongest man alive. Good form does not mean you will never get hurt someday you will hit a weight thats is ok for your muscle but not for your joints and as you age the years of lifting will hurt your joints also.

KevinStarke
03-09-2006, 10:34 PM
I train with an elite level powerlifter also certified in the ISSA and I have rotator problems and as soon as he fixed my form on bench they've felt fine and he's never mentioned putting your rotators are risk going that extra inch to touching your chest. And if you wanna compete your gonna have to be touching your chest anyway.

WV_ironman
03-09-2006, 10:49 PM
Look I have worked out with Brian Siders and alot of top guys and they don't know a thing about the body. I also didn't learn anything about it getting my ISSA. I did in med school. If I wear a bench shirt I don't have to. I was wanting to know if anyone with that, had fond ways to work around it like doing rack work in a shirt or bands in a shirt. or just the shirt. I thought this would be older, helpful people like you find in powerrlifting gym that I did go to before. I guess I will drive up to the old gym and just ask them. If I want someone to run there mouth to me I would have went to a college gym and asked. I know there is someone on here that could help, but I don't think this is what I am looking for and am out of here.

KevinStarke
03-10-2006, 12:10 AM
Haha alright i'll stop "running my mouth" now and let you go back to doing your 700 lb shrugs.

Sidior
03-10-2006, 02:37 AM
Kevin knows what he is talking about, as he has one of the best bench to weight ratios on the board, if not the best. Also coming onto a board asking for advice, getting it from several senior member and lipping their responses solves nothing but pissing them off, and making you look like a jerk. Sensei and Kevin both know what they are talking about, and it is your loss if you refuse to follow their advice.

WV_ironman
03-10-2006, 06:35 AM
I didn't lip them first. I never lipped sensei. I thanked him. Kevin started on me. I wanted bench help not call me out help. That is a good bench and if he came at it the right way I would have love his help but he didn't. I also have a good bench. I love powerlifting and powerlifters. I have never had a powerlifter be like that, but I have never been on the net talking about it. Every Westside guy will take his whole day to help you. In the gym no one does that because they see you, here it's a little different. I didn't refuse drew or sensei. It sounds like you have been on here for sometime and know the people, I haven't and if someone comes at you like he did me, not knowing him how would you act.

WBBIRL
03-10-2006, 10:13 AM
Quite honestly, im a little sceptical myself of that 700lb BB shrug. Doesnt mean its not true and doesnt mean im calling you a lair. A video of the act would remove any doubts... and thats only if you care what other people think.

At your original post.


If you cannot touch your chest with a decent % of your MAX then you shouldnt be benching (or lifting in my opinion). Go to a doctor and see why your rotators are causing you this pain... if they are injured or simply wont allow for lifting anymore then you have no choice.

WV_ironman
03-10-2006, 10:37 AM
I don't somewhat care. but no one likes being called a lair. You sound nice and smart, thank you for your help. I have seen another doctor about it. I tore part of the pec and bi's. I took a few years off and came back slow. I was only able to get around 270-280 and then I had laser work done and move up to about 300-315, I went back and to have more scar tissue remove and am now were I am at. I was trying to get info for when I came back to lifting heavy. I am dieting right now and am a little weak. I did 650 last week shrugs. But he said it would be nice to see me just hold it so next week I will hold 700 and tape it. I am going to the beach. When I get back and start eating again, I will tape me shruging it. I shouldn't care but I would like to chat and get info and help that I might not get here at my gym and not have to drive 100 miles to work out, so if I get this out of the way all will be happy.

Sensei
03-10-2006, 03:18 PM
Again, it would be helpful to see your bench - it doesn't need to be a max attempt, just something that we could see your elbow position, back involvement, etc. I think tucking your elbows throughout the movement would probably be something to think about. Developing an arch will help you involve the upper back and decrease ROM.

As far as shirts go, yes you could train in a shirt more often. It would support your shoulders, but it'll just be a band-aid and won't do anything to strengthen you at the chest. You could also do board presses and pin-presses, but same thing as the shirt.

I'd work on your rotator cuff strength and flexibility. It should do a lot for you. I'm going to write something up on basic exercises for the rotators later, but there should be stuff out there if you look.

I think there's a decent article at Dolfzine by Ken Neill about shoulders - it shouldn't be hard to find. I'd post the address, but I have to run right now.

jkirkpatrick
03-10-2006, 03:35 PM
[QUOTE=Sensei]I'm going to write something up on basic exercises for the rotators later, but there should be stuff out there if you look.[QUOTE]

That would be great, Sensei! I'll look for this in the BB threads in the near future, (?)

:thumbup: