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View Full Version : My stomach is a food burning furnace. Anybody else?



russianwol
03-10-2006, 09:14 AM
Hey guys. My first post here. Great forum. Just wanted to say that over the last several years I'm experiencing a completely bizzare metabolism and eating pattern. Since I've started lifting this has gotten even more bizzar.

I get hungry during the day roughly every 2-3 hours and have to eat rather large meals. Here is an example.

Wake up at 8am, go to the office, have breakfast around 9am - large burrito with egs, ham and other stuff. This burrito is probably equals 3 or 4 of those lousy McDonalds breakfast burritos. Eat that with a large cup of water and a cup of green tea.

Around 10:30 or 11ish I start getting hunger cramps. Time for a protein shake. 6 oz pine apple juice, 1/3 or 1/2 fat free, plain yogurt, banana, frozen blueberries, teaspoon of glutamine, a drop of virgin olive oil and 1.5 servings of Nitro-Tech. Follow that with a large glass of water.

After that lunch is usually around 1 or 2 pm, maybe sooner if I get hunger cramp. Eat large meal again - foot long subway sub for example. Water, water, water - but not forcing myself a certain amount.

Around 4-5 pm I get a very strange hunger cramp - I'm hungry but I feel some what bloated. Probably from all the food/water I've drank. I end up having a cup of oatmeal with raisins and skim milk - btw oatmeal tastes awesome mixed with just cold milk - don't cook it, it's crunchy not mushy.

Hit the gym around 7-8ish. Usually eat 1/2 of Nitro-Tech bar and some gatorate for the workout. Finish the bar after workout. Head home, often hungry.

Evening depending on how late it is and how hungry I'm - I'll either make fried eggs with 4 eggs and some shredded potatoes. This usually lasts about an hour after which I have to eat some more oatmeal.

Right before the bed I'll drink the 22 g protein Muscle Milk cholocate shake. In the middle of the night I usually wake up hungry and drink some more of the Muscle Milk.

The weird thing is that I almost never eat like that on the weekend. I have a computer job so I sit most of the day. I'm 5'11'' and 188 pounds with 11% bf.

I'm loving this situation cause I can eat as much as I want without storing much fat.

I've increased my BF recently because I've stopped all cardio - specific (treadmil and such) and recreational too (sports) to bulk up. I'm gaining on average 1lb a week.

Am I normal? hehe
Are there other people out there that experience similar situation?
Take care,

Dmitry

Holto
03-10-2006, 09:21 AM
That really doesn't sound like that much food. We have guys here bulking on 8000.

How many cals is that?

russianwol
03-10-2006, 09:24 AM
Last time I did nutritional analysis - about 4000+ I think. I can see how some people can get 8000 calories in but as long as they know what they are doing. On the other hand I've read that you need about 500 cals extra to gain, 700-800 if you are a hard gainer. More calories doesn't always mean faster gains - excess gets stored as fat.

But what I'm trying to figure out is if there other people that get hungy - like starving hungry every 2-3 hours. Or do people that are bulking up on insane amount of calories have to force themselves to consume that.

Holto
03-10-2006, 09:29 AM
More calories doesn't always mean faster gains - excess gets stored as fat.

Tell us something we don't know. :zipit:

The guys we have eating 8000 are a lot bigger than you bro.

Built
03-10-2006, 09:48 AM
You may do better with your diet if you adjust the mix of macronutrients (protein, carb and fat).

What does it break down to right now?

ShockBoxer
03-10-2006, 10:02 AM
But what I'm trying to figure out is if there other people that get hungy - like starving hungry every 2-3 hours. Or do people that are bulking up on insane amount of calories have to force themselves to consume that.

I am always starving until I've gotten about 2600 calories in... then I don't want to eat another bite. It's kind of irritating for both cutting and bulking.

Built
03-10-2006, 10:06 AM
I'm telling you - it's your macros.

Post 'em up!

Eszekial
03-10-2006, 10:12 AM
Tape Worm

Built
03-10-2006, 10:14 AM
I have SO got to get me one of those for next cut...

ShockBoxer
03-10-2006, 10:20 AM
You don't want one. Trust me on this.

Built
03-10-2006, 10:28 AM
LOL! Okay, okay, I trust you.

I won't ask, either. ;)

russianwol
03-10-2006, 11:14 AM
Nobody except one person really got what I'm trying to find out. Are people that consume large meals often during the day forcing themselves to consume that much or do they like me get hungry very often and have to eat that much. I can just imagine that a 350+lb strongman must eat up 8000k a day. (Yeah there was a nice article about powerlifters in a mag a while ago - guy eats like dozen of eggs for breakfast :) )

So I'm curious as to what does "Do better" mean, Built? Do you mean faster than 1lb per week gain? Yeah the forum's name is Wanna Be Big not I'm Big Already. It's hard to belive but I wasn't born 250lb, 5% bodyfat ;)

Shock - are you taking 2600 cals in one meal?

Built
03-10-2006, 11:36 AM
<scratches head>
Okay, maybe I got confused. I personally don’t LIKE feeling hungry all day. I adjust my macros so I don't feel this way.

russianwol
03-10-2006, 11:49 AM
You mean to say you eat more when you feel hungry and such? Vary protein/cabs/fat depending on how you feel? I hate being hungry myself - that's why I eat whenever I'm hungry. But when I get hungry - I get really hungry in a very short period of time. I can't function when I'm like that - I must eat something immediately. Like right now :) I had some General TSO chicken for lunch and rice and veggies about 2 hours ago. But I'm starting to feel like I could eat something more now... Ugh.

Built
03-10-2006, 11:58 AM
Which is why I suggested you tell me what your macros look like.

ArchAngel777
03-10-2006, 12:03 PM
You mean to say you eat more when you feel hungry and such? Vary protein/cabs/fat depending on how you feel? I hate being hungry myself - that's why I eat whenever I'm hungry. But when I get hungry - I get really hungry in a very short period of time. I can't function when I'm like that - I must eat something immediately. Like right now :) I had some General TSO chicken for lunch and rice and veggies about 2 hours ago. But I'm starting to feel like I could eat something more now... Ugh.

It all depends on what you are eating and what satisfies your hunger the most. That is why Built wants to know your macronutrients (She wants to know how many grams of Fat, Protein, Carbohydrates a day).

For instance, eating cereal, sugar cereal does not satisfy most people. It is calorie dense and often several thousand calories can be consumed at breakfast alone, then a few hours (or less) later you are extremely hungry again. Avoid calorie dense foods and the way to do that is to eat natural, as natural as possibly. Skip displacement, highly processed foods.

Post your macros so Built can actually help you.

russianwol
03-10-2006, 12:12 PM
Hehe. Don't I guess I'm not really asking for help. Built I don't think I can post the macros without going to fitday and recording a week's worth of food. I'm too lazy/busy for that. hehe. I don't think I have a problem with my diet because I'm making gains that I like. I'm not getting fatter. And I eat mostly clean. I just haven't had a chance to discuss the nutrition with other people to see how they feel. BTW my nutritionist was shocked to see me consume 4000cal a day when my resting metabolism was tested at 1300cal. I think something was wrong with the metabolism test. BTW has anyone done that kind of test?

Built
03-10-2006, 12:18 PM
Well, I've had this "freakish hunger" thing - it was insulin resistance, and when I increased protein and fat and decreased starches and sugars, it resolved itself.

Might come in handy to know if and when you decide to do a cutter.

How do they test metabolism?

ShockBoxer
03-10-2006, 12:35 PM
Shock - are you taking 2600 cals in one meal?

I have in the past (and easily)... but no. That's for the day when I'm maintaining.

I'm with Built... your food composition has a lot to do with hunger. I went to McDonalds for lunch (why I don't know... other than being out of food at home). BAM! 1000 calories in 5 minutes.

Guess what? I'm starving. I was the moment I finished. It was like I didn't even eat. 10 piece nuggets, medium fries, half a diet coke... pure garbage. It did nothing to satiate my hunger. Now I have a long wait until I take three scoops of whey in three shakes for dinner (to catch up on my protein and it's the closest thing to food I have in my apartment until I get to a grocery store tomorrow).

russianwol
03-10-2006, 12:37 PM
My gym does one of these computerized tests - they strap you into a mask where you are breathing through the tubes into a deviced hooked to a computer. They also measure your heart rate. You have to fast for 8 hours before the test so usually it's done in the morning before breakfast with little or no exercise day before. They put you in a isolated room, turn the lights off and require you to just lay there for like 15 minutes. It's important that you don't fall assleep.

The device hooked to the tubes measures the oxygen and CO2 that you breath out. Based on that combination they can determine what your resting metabolism is.

Like I said that test must have not been done right for me - cause I don't get very hungry early in the morning - I had to get up at like 6:30am to take the test. There's no way I can fast 8 hours during the day.

Another cool test they do is to VO2 Max to determine the AB and AT. IMO that's the most important stats to know when cutting.

Built
03-10-2006, 12:43 PM
But that's measuring your resting metabolism, right? Not your maintenance calories?

What's the problem here?

And how does knowing your VO2 max help you with cutting?

russianwol
03-10-2006, 12:54 PM
That's true. Probably that's why the numbers don't make sense. But anyhow - it makes no difference to me right now. The VO2 Max test sets up your hear rate zones and shows your how much of fat vs. carbs you are burning with in each zone. It also shows you how many calories you are burning in each zone. Since I hate running, I like the idea that I can spend walking on a treadmill for 1 hour at 132 bpm zone and burn more fat than cabs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerobic_exercise - great reference.

Built
03-10-2006, 12:59 PM
I don't rely on cardio for cutting. How could my VO2 max help?

russianwol
03-10-2006, 01:44 PM
Buit - you have some impressive pics of you during your cutting phase. I have no idea how you managed to get that done without cardio. I'd have to read up your sticky post again to understand.

Basically knowing your AT, AB and VO2 Max is only useful if you train for an athletic event. Although bodybuilders too should train their heart (through endurance exercises - which can easily be just very intensive weight lifting), atheletes that are looking for increased indurance for sports can measure their progress by watching the change in AB, AT and VO2. The elite maraphon runners have a very high AT - 80% of VO2 max but also AB very close to AT. Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaerobic_exercise

Built
03-10-2006, 01:52 PM
I was 40% bodyfat in my running days.

I couldn't have got myself cut up doing cardio. It's really lousy for cutting - burns muscle, doesn't burn enough calories to make it worthwhile, and it just makes me freaking hungry! I do a little on a cut, basically to afford me a little dietary freedom while I diet hard. But we're talking a few 20-minute walks in my neighbourhood on nice days here, not extended jogging or anything of that nature. I do a little HIIT, too - maybe 8 minutes of it once or twice a week. But cutting is heavy lifting under a caloric deficit. It just works better. My endurance weenie days are behind me. I prefer to be muscular and lean.

russianwol
03-10-2006, 02:38 PM
Buit - great post. You have to understand that cardio can mean different things. This is where AB and AT comes in. You can do cardio below or around your AB - take walks, walk on treadmill, etc. You can do cardio at your AT or above your AT - sprint, play sports, lift weights.

When doing exercise your body will first burn through the stored glycogen. After that depending on the intensity of exercies it will break down fat or muscle. During high intensity anaerobic exercise the body will break down minimal amount of fat. However, during a low intensity aerobic cardio more fat is broken down than muscle. One thing to note though aerobic exercise is more popular to anaerobic due to more effective fat buring, the latter increases the resting metabolism.

So it looks like you have a high resting metabolism through weight training which allows your to achive a low body % without much cardio. By HIIT do you mean High Intensity Interval Training?

ArchAngel777
03-10-2006, 02:45 PM
So it looks like you have a high resting metabolism through weight training which allows your to achive a low body % without much cardio. By HIIT do you mean High Intensity Interval Training?

Yes, that is what she means by HIIT.

Way over your head, again... If she was 40% in her running days, how is that a "fast metabolism"? :scratch:

You have it all wrong... While cardio does burn calories, it isn't as much as you think. Staying away from a single candy bar will save you from having to deal with cardio. It is all about calories in versus calories out. Weightlifting itself, lifting heavy specifically burns a ton of calories and informs the body it needs to hold on to that muscle, because you are using it.

Cardio isn't bad, it can help you lose weight, but it won't do jack if your diet is not on track. Despite hearing "Oh, i'll just have another peice of cake and run a few more minutes" is wishful thinking. The ammount of exercise required burn off what you shouldn't have eaten in the first place is astounding.

Built
03-10-2006, 03:14 PM
Thanks ArchAngel. My thoughts exactly.

Russian, I ran 10k 3x a week for almost 10 years. I was a cardio bunny. A fat, squishy cardio bunny. Hungry, too. I spent about 20 years overweight. I can assure you, however fast my metabolism was, it wasn't fast enough to keep up with my appetite.

Cardio. It just won't make you ripped.

Thank God I don't have to do all that running anymore. I really hated it.

russianwol
03-10-2006, 03:22 PM
Ok let me see how I can answer this reply.

Since my VO2 Max test I can measure and calculate how many calories I've burned during a cardio session since I'm given amount of calories per minute at a given heart rate. Wheather much or not is relative to the person. 1lb = 3400 calories however you put it. I don't understand what exactly I got wrong. Care to point out? :)

Your resting metabolism increases with your training. That's the metabolism that is required to maintain. That's why weight lifting is also recomended to overweight people.

Built - I'm talking about your current resting metabolism not what you had before. I'm quite sure your body is trained differently now then when you were 40% BF. How did you have your BF% measured btw?

BTW did you say you are at 20% now?

If you understand about AT and AB then there's a very obvious explanation why you weren't seing results when you were running. I've seen way too many people sweating like pigs running on the treadmill with out any improvement to their physique.

russianwol
03-10-2006, 03:33 PM
Buit - how much BF% do you have in your March 2004 pics link through your sig?

Built
03-10-2006, 03:33 PM
Ok let me see how I can answer this reply.

Since my VO2 Max test I can measure and calculate how many calories I've burned during a cardio session since I'm given amount of calories per minute at a given heart rate. Wheather much or not is relative to the person. 1lb = 3400 calories however you put it. I don't understand what exactly I got wrong. Care to point out? :)
I won't burn enough calories in a cardio session to make it worth the effort, the muscle catabolism, the hunger Ö unless we're talking a walk after I lift or a little HIIT on occasion. In terms of caloric deficits, its just not worth thinking of it in terms of "fat loss".




Your resting metabolism increases with your training. That's why weight lifting is also recomended to overweight people.

It does, but not by ALL that much. The bigger deal is that it helps lean you out if you do this while dieting, and that it increases muscular insulin sensitivity.




Who's arguing that diet is not important?

Nobody. We're arguing that when it comes to weight loss, diet is pretty much EVERYTHING, and that for getting lean, cardio is not important. That part is caloric deficit + heavy lifting to preserve LBM. Cardio seems to be very much a tolerance issue - some people do fine with quite a bit of it, some (like me) tend to get soft and hungry from it. Some folks really like it, and manage their diets and other training to allow them to continue with it. I sometimes go for long (2-3 hour) bike rides in the summertime. But it's not to get lean - it's for recreation. I make sure to overfeed myself on those days to ensure I donít run ANY caloric deficit from it.

ArchAngel777
03-10-2006, 03:36 PM
Ok let me see how I can answer this reply.

Since my VO2 Max test I can measure and calculate how many calories I've burned during a cardio session since I'm given amount of calories per minute at a given heart rate. Wheather much or not is relative to the person. 1lb = 3400 calories however you put it. I don't understand what exactly I got wrong. Care to point out? :)

Your resting metabolism increases with your training. That's the metabolism that is required to maintain. That's why weight lifting is also recomended to overweight people.

Built - I'm talking about your current resting metabolism not what you had before. I'm quite sure your body is trained differently now then when you were 40% BF. How did you have your BF% measured btw?

BTW did you say you are at 20% now?

If you understand about AT and AB then there's a very obvious explanation why you weren't seing results when you were running. I've seen way too many people sweating like pigs running on the treadmill with out any improvement to their physique.


She said she uses DEXA, which is the best technology for determining accurate body fat levels. Read up on it doing a google search if you are not sure.

Yes, she said she is around 20% right now. Remember, she is a woman, not a man. 20% is quite lean for a woman.

Built
03-10-2006, 03:39 PM
I was 14% on my last cut.

I'm BULKING right now. 20% is still quite lean for a woman (a middle-aged woman at that... ), and it's the fattest I got after four months of bulking.

russianwol
03-10-2006, 03:47 PM
Nobody. We're arguing that when it comes to weight loss, diet is pretty much EVERYTHING, and that for getting lean, cardio is not important. That part is caloric deficit + heavy lifting to preserve LBM.

That's a very interesting point. I won't argue with you on that because it makes sense but also because it worked for you. Importance is relative. What I would want to investigate is the exact reason why CD + Heavy Lifting works in getting cut but preserving LBM at the same time. Scientific reason that is. Off to the net I go...

Built - are you saying you were at 14% body fat and 130 lb at the end of your Nov 2005 cutting cycle? I just looked at the pic of your measurement - you have 5% in abs, 11% in your tri and 20% or so in legs. That's interesting. From looking at those pics I would say you were under 7% BF in general. I don't think those stats give you any justice. But it's strange to see that kind of results. Were you satisfied with your legs' BF%?

russianwol
03-10-2006, 03:50 PM
Yeah Arch, that makes sense. Now admit you are Buit's secret admirer ;)

ArchAngel777
03-10-2006, 03:56 PM
That's a very interesting point. I won't argue with you on that because it makes sense but also because it worked for you. Importance is relative. What I would want to investigate is the exact reason why CD + Heavy Lifting works in getting cut but preserving LBM at the same time. Scientific reason that is. Off to the net I go...

Built - are you saying you were at 14% body fat and 130 lb at the end of your Nov 2005 cutting cycle? I just looked at the pic of your measurement - you have 5% in abs, 11% in your tri and 20% or so in legs. That's interesting. From looking at those pics I would say you were under 7% BF in general. I don't think those stats give you any justice. But it's strange to see that kind of results. Were you satisfied with your legs' BF%?

You are forgetting that woman have fat in their breasts at pretty much all times. So, while her chest may have shrunk, they still held a good pocket of fat. That is why her upper body has a higher BF %. This applies universally to most women.

ArchAngel777
03-10-2006, 03:57 PM
Yeah Arch, that makes sense. Now admit you are Buit's secret admirer ;)

Nope, I am happily married and so is she. But I do admire her dedication and sound advice she gives to us in this forum. Never-the-less, her physique is very impressive and even more so when she revealed that she is over 40!!! Amazing, it really is.

russianwol
03-10-2006, 04:10 PM
Arch, her upper body has less fat than legs...

Built - now you are doing cardio like walking when you hit a plateau when you are cutting according to you post link through your sig. Why would you then say it's not important.

I think low intensity cardio at AB is probably the most important when trying to cut below 10% for men.

But as far as hunger - you are saying that you never get the freaky hunger while either bulking up or cutting, right?

I'm trying to see what other people experience on that. Because it kinda drives me insane. How do you like going to a restaurant and eating a 16oz steak with mashed potatoes and veggies, then getting another 6 oz with 2 more sides :-D

I hate it and I love it... hmmm time for oatmeal...

Built
03-10-2006, 04:55 PM
Arch, her upper body has less fat than legs...

Built - now you are doing cardio like walking when you hit a plateau when you are cutting according to you post link through your sig. Why would you then say it's not important.
I do it so I can eat an extra TABLESPOON of natural peanut butter. Just to put it into perspective.




I think low intensity cardio at AB is probably the most important when trying to cut below 10% for men.

But as far as hunger - you are saying that you never get the freaky hunger while either bulking up or cutting, right?
I've learned to eat in such a way as to control it. I COULD eat more, but I'm not chewing my arm off.




I'm trying to see what other people experience on that. Because it kinda drives me insane. How do you like going to a restaurant and eating a 16oz steak with mashed potatoes and veggies, then getting another 6 oz with 2 more sides :-D

I hate it and I love it... hmmm time for oatmeal...

I love steak.

Built
03-10-2006, 05:04 PM
Were you satisfied with your legs' BF%?

Considering I used to wear a size 14 pant, and got down to a size TWO, I'd say yes. I'd like to see them lean out more this summer.

<blows kisses at Arch... >

Roark
03-10-2006, 06:45 PM
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