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gator
03-22-2006, 08:49 PM
Here is a great article...

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=460048

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=460051

Nito
03-22-2006, 09:52 PM
Interesting reads.

lifter4life
03-22-2006, 09:57 PM
good article, good author. just in time for the summer

ddegroff
03-23-2006, 01:15 PM
Very interesting...

Demling et al (2000) compared two groups on a 2100 to 2300kcal diet containing 143gP (26%), 286gC (52%), and 49gF (20%). Both groups weight trained for twelve weeks but received 75g of their daily protein intake from either a whey-based drink or a milk-protein isolate drink (80% casein, 20% whey). At the end of the study, the milk-protein isolate group lost more fat (15.4lbs vs. 9.2lbs), gained more lean mass (9lbs vs. 4.4lbs), and gained more upper and lower body strength than the whey group. It appears that milk protein isolate ingestion, when on a training program, may be a better way to enhance fat loss and muscle gain.


Unfortunately for these poor guys, they were eating only 10% of their calories at breakfast and a whopping 50% of their calories right before bed. In addition, 50% of their carb intake was sugar! After diet counseling, these guys still ate the same diet in terms of macronutrients, but they ate 70% of their calories during the active parts of their day and 80% of their carb intake was complex and low on the GI scale. At the end of twelve weeks these guys lost 3lbs of weight and 5lbs of fat while gaining 2lbs of lean mass. And this was without changing exercise habits! While these changes weren't huge, it's clear that food choices and timing make a difference.

I wish you would have posted this in the other "clean" thread. I might have mis-represented my personal feelings on CHO's. I'm the oats all day long over dex guy. I just didnt think it really mattered oats vs dex, but i still stand that its timing that matters. What I bolded makes the most sense and confirms what most of us do while cutting.


Lands et al (1999) showed that when supplementing with 20g of whey or casein for three months, the whey group had up-regulated their antioxidant defense systems and had increased performance in an anaerobic exercise task. The casein group didn't improve on any of the above parameters. Therefore whey may be better for antioxidant protection.

Wow... whey wins again! but

it was shown that whey protein is better for up-regulating protein synthesis while casein protein is better for down-regulating protein breakdown. Not much more has to be said about this since it's been discussed about a thousand other times on this site alone. The take-home message from these studies is that a milk protein blend or a supplement containing whey + casein may be your best bet for body composition improvements.

So mixing in both is optimal (what many of us do). Those are quoted from the first article. Very good read. Thank you for opening my eyes to a new idea!:thumbup:

(im gonna read the second one now)

ddegroff
03-23-2006, 01:55 PM
In a study by Agus et al (2000), it was demonstrated that during a short, 6 day, low-calorie diet, a low-GI carb intake preserved metabolism and enhanced fat loss vs. a high-GI diet. The low GI group saw a 5% decline in metabolic rate and a 7.7lb weight loss while the high-GI group saw an 11% decline in metabolic rate and a 6.6lb weight loss.



The bottom line here is that when all else is equal, a diet containing mostly low-GI carbohydrates is superior to a high-GI diet for losing fat, preserving metabolic rate, and maintaining healthy insulin sensitivity and glucose tolerance.

good info, i like the fact that eating low-gi CHO preserves one's metabolism.


Dextrose (glucose) is a simple carbohydrate unit (similar to the amino acid). While it's good for exercise situations (malto is better), you're probably better off adding some dextrose to your maltodextrin formula. A little bit of dextrose may enhance the already excellent fluid uptake that occurs with maltodextrin during exercise.

Fructose is a simple carbohydrate unit, but it's structurally different from glucose. Due to its structure, it can possibly cause GI problems and/or decrease fluid uptake with exercise. Fructose, unlike other simple carbs, has to be "treated" in the liver and it reaches the muscle slowly.

that right they're is what i've been looking for. I take honey+whey pre-workout. I knew about the GI problems (from the naturally ocurring bacteria in honey), but as we get older our stomachs get use to it. The decrease in fluid uptake I didint know. I've thinking about switching to dex but malto looks better (waiting till the honey runs out). I knew the part about going to the liver to be changed to glucose (glucose is a six sided molecule, where as frutose is 5 sided). Thats why i took the honey so when my muscles needed it towards the end of my workout. BUT, i've recently been feeling like i should sip the shake during.


MCT's, due to their medium chain length, are easily oxidized by skeletal muscle. This is due to the fact that MCT's are quickly and easily transported to the fat furnace, the mitochondrion. As a result, research (Hill et al 1989) has demonstrated that TEF (thermogenic effect) with MCTs is double that of other fats, making it comparable to protein in this regard.

I think thats the claim on the side of muscle milk bottles. BUT, its very interesting to see the idea somewhere else.


CLA has remained a relative mystery to the research community. This is probably due to the various forms (isomers) of CLA. Regardless, some research (Blankson et al 2000) has shown that 12 weeks of CLA supplementation (at doses above 3.4g/day) can increase LBM and decrease fat mass vs. olive oil. While the olive oil group gained 1.5 lbs of fat and no lean body mass, the CLA group lost 4.5 lbs of fat and gained 3 lbs of LBM.

I lost a good amount of lb's while supplementing with CLA. IT could have been the diet I was on though.


Finally, if you've been around the T-mag community for a while you'll know that my favorite fats are those in fish oil. Delarue et al (1996) showed that fish oil supplementation (6g/day added to the diet) dramatically changed the metabolism of fats and carbohydrates.

During an OGTT (oral glucose tolerance test drinking a big 75g whack of liquid sugar and measuring the subjects for 2 hours afterward), the fish oil group burned 27g of fat vs. 20g in the placebo group. The fish oil group also burned 28g or carbs while storing 36g and the placebo group burned 51g of carbs while storing only 14g.

I took fish oil for the omega 3's. Its very interesting to see the effect of fish oil in the body.


In conclusion, food selection is one of the more important determinants of your body composition. Using the rules above, you can make your fat loss quest much easier than you ever imagined!

every newbie about to ask how to see they're abs should read that!

all that was from the second article. thanks gator those were some good articles.

gator
03-23-2006, 01:56 PM
No problem man, but then the same guy also wrote this peice which is contradicts some of what he said there. I think after looking at all of this I will continue doing 40 g dex 40 g of oats PWO. Try to get the best of both worlds.

http://johnberardi.com/articles/nutrition/puzzle_2.htm

ddegroff
03-23-2006, 02:08 PM
i think thats exactly what makes an "optimal" diet. Many different kinds of protein (whey, casein), CHO (dex/oats/brown rice), and Fats(polyunsat, monounsat, and some sat).

gator
03-23-2006, 02:20 PM
i think thats exactly what makes an "optimal" diet. Many different kinds of protein (whey, casein), CHO (dex/oats/brown rice), and Fats(polyunsat, monounsat, and some sat).


Yep I agree, I would buy casein protein but it's just too expensive...I have a couple glasses of milk and a half tub of CC every day so that should suffice. I think his talk about the fish oil, really helps with my claim and sesamin to hinder fat gain on a bulk, I've been taking that stuff for a couple of days now, after my bulk is over I'll report on it.

Nito
03-23-2006, 07:12 PM
Went out and bought a protein blend today. I got ISO whey for my workouts workouts, and this blend for other times.

WildCard
03-23-2006, 08:48 PM
No problem man, but then the same guy also wrote this peice which is contradicts some of what he said there. I think after looking at all of this I will continue doing 40 g dex 40 g of oats PWO. Try to get the best of both worlds.

http://johnberardi.com/articles/nutrition/puzzle_2.htm

mmm. dextrose. so potent it should be illegal. are you taking your 40 40 pre workout or Post workout.?

I take 200g of dextrose Pre workout and none post workout. I feel great (sugar high) when I take that much dext before working out and I dont think my body burns all of it so I still have the left overs floating around in my blood post workout.

gator
03-23-2006, 09:45 PM
I take 200g of dextrose Pre workout and none post workout. I feel great (sugar high) when I take that much dext before working out and I dont think my body burns all of it so I still have the left overs floating around in my blood post workout.

I dont know why you would do that....

WildCard
03-23-2006, 10:23 PM
I dont know why you would do that....

do what? take 200gs? because I found out that any less and I start to lose energy and focus before the end of the workout.

if you mean why dont I take dex after workout? because I dont want to get fat from all that sugar