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jazer80
03-23-2006, 04:37 PM
i have noticed a couple times people saying things like this

"Just take in tons of meat and full proteins, tons of fat and however many carbs you want."(archangel777)

when i am bulking i try to take in a ton of calories, but i try not to go too crazy on the fat, because i thought it would increase fat (yes, i know it's all about total cals for the most part, but thought that if you were gonna take in more of some calories, woudln't you lean to protein first, then carbs, then fat?). i think i'm missing something here, i hope that my confusion is clear to someone else. basically it seems in that quote that teh carbs aren't really that important and the fat/protein is, and i've always kind of treated it like carbs/protein are important, and fat not so much so, as long as it's at a high enough level as to not be too low and cause issues (test, joint, etc). What am i missing?

MJS
03-23-2006, 05:13 PM
Make sure you are getting good fats and good carbs. There is a huge difference. Use the search function, I've read a ton about it here. For instance, cook with olive oil not butter. They are two different types of fat. Eat oats not starchy pasta as they are different carbs and the oats break down slower over time.

brickt.
03-23-2006, 05:13 PM
Protein and Fat are essential nutrients. Without them... YOU DIE!!!
Carbohydrates aren't essential to your body - it can and will survive without them.

So, what AA meant was eat enough protein and fat so that you get optimal results from them, then fill in the rest of your calorie quota with carbs.

For example. You 200lb guy may need to get a minimum of 300g protein, 150g fat, and 4000 cals to gain. As 300g pro + 150g fat qives 2500cals~, he would need to add another 1500 cals from whatever he wants (probably carbs) to reach 4k.

For simplicity:

300g Pro <---- Important - think of them as must haves
375g Carb <---- Buffer to raise cals to required levels to gain
150g Fat <---- Important - think of them as must haves

MJS
03-23-2006, 05:14 PM
Oh, and as far as macros, on a bulk, I try to maintain a 20/40/40 split between carbs/fats/protein. Other variations work well too.

brickt.
03-23-2006, 05:15 PM
Make sure you are getting good fats and good carbs. There is a huge difference. Use the search function, I've read a ton about it here. For instance, cook with olive oil not butter. They are two different types of fat. Eat oats not starchy pasta as they are different carbs and the oats break down slower over time.

Actually, IM, it's better to cook with butter than olive oil. Olive oil's fat structure will get damaged if you cook with it at a high heat, where as butter (saturated fat) will not be damaged.

Remember, saturated fat is not bad! There is no such thing as bad fats, except for manmade transfats.

Built
03-23-2006, 05:17 PM
i have noticed a couple times people saying things like this

"Just take in tons of meat and full proteins, tons of fat and however many carbs you want."(archangel777)

when i am bulking i try to take in a ton of calories, but i try not to go too crazy on the fat, because i thought it would increase fat (yes, i know it's all about total cals for the most part, but thought that if you were gonna take in more of some calories, woudln't you lean to protein first, then carbs, then fat?). i think i'm missing something here, i hope that my confusion is clear to someone else. basically it seems in that quote that teh carbs aren't really that important and the fat/protein is, and i've always kind of treated it like carbs/protein are important, and fat not so much so, as long as it's at a high enough level as to not be too low and cause issues (test, joint, etc). What am i missing?

Other way around. Cook with butter, not olive oil. Butter is saturated, so it's more stable for high heat. It's also a healthy natural saturated fat.

Olive oil is wonderful for salad dressings. Eat it raw.

OP, read my "cutting" link. I use the same format to cut as to bulk, and you might find that information helpful.

Built
03-23-2006, 05:19 PM
Oh, and as far as macros, on a bulk, I try to maintain a 20/40/40 split between carbs/fats/protein. Other variations work well too.

The ratios really need to be anchored to your LBM, not to total calories. Ratios such as the ones ironman described are somewhat meaningless for BB since our total cals vary by so much depending on whether we're bulking or cutting. You risk going too high on protein for a bulk, and too low on protein and fat on a cut with the ratio approach.

Jordanbcool
03-23-2006, 07:02 PM
I dont know why alot of people say carbs arent needed. Fats contain more energy by far but your body normally uses carbs as its main source of energy. I really like carbs to....but thats just me.

-jordan

jazer80
03-23-2006, 07:11 PM
I dont know why alot of people say carbs arent needed. Fats contain more energy by far but your body normally uses carbs as its main source of energy. I really like carbs to....but thats just me.

-jordan
haha that's funny i was just reading a thread yesterday where you were fighting pretty hard on that topic, was that an old or new one?

Built
03-23-2006, 07:14 PM
Jordon, it has to do with the definition of "essential". Our bodies can and do make all kinds of stuff, but there are some amino acids our bodies can make (like glutamine) and some it cannot - from Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essential_amino_acid)

"An essential amino acid for an organism is an amino acid that cannot be synthesized by the organism from other available resources, and therefore must be supplied as part of its diet.
Eight amino acids are generally regarded as essential for humans: tryptophan, lysine, methionine, phenylalanine, threonine, valine, leucine, and isoleucine. Two others, histidine and arginine are essential only in children."

The same is true of the essential fatty acids. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essential_fatty_acid)

Since the body can create all the carbohydrate it actually requires to function, carbs aren't considered "essential".

They are, however, yummy as hell. <covets sweet potato lovingly>

Does this make sense now?

Slim Schaedle
03-23-2006, 07:31 PM
haha that's funny i was just reading a thread yesterday where you were fighting pretty hard on that topic, was that an old or new one?
I seem to remember that thread :angel:

jazer80
03-23-2006, 07:45 PM
I seem to remember that thread :angel:
haha the only reason i read it is because i was reading your old posts. are you in school for this stuff?

Slim Schaedle
03-23-2006, 07:47 PM
haha the only reason i read it is because i was reading your old posts. are you in school for this stuff?
Yes. Entreprenuership as well.

brickt.
03-23-2006, 08:35 PM
I dont know why alot of people say carbs arent needed. Fats contain more energy by far but your body normally uses carbs as its main source of energy. I really like carbs to....but thats just me.

-jordan

Without carbs, you'll going into ketosis.
Without fats/protein... bye, bye jordanbcool! :hello:

Jordanbcool
03-23-2006, 09:44 PM
Im just saying.

i'd consider carbs to be very essential for bodybuilders atleast.

My workouts stink without enough carbs.

-jordan

Built
03-23-2006, 10:04 PM
They're most certainly erogenic for us, yes.

jazer80
03-24-2006, 08:33 AM
Yes. Entreprenuership as well.
that's awesome, i wish there was that major at my uni, i'm in econ tho. i'll be entrep my whole life, i'm a senior right now doing full time econ, full time management at a local place, started a personal training company last year (didn't take off and then i got promoted so i abandoned it), i am a beginner in real estate investment, and i am in the middle of setting up an ebay company with a partner right now