New routine from PT - solid or not?

[TheLittleGuy]

I'm pretty confident in my personal trainer. I've done a fair bit of research online and in books that I understand exercise theory pretty well, and can recognise BS when I hear it.

I met with him today to put together a new routine. He suggested I move to a three-day split, working back, chest and shoulders. And that's when I started to get worried. It struck me that there was a fairly fundamental component missing in this routine. "But you normally wear sweats, so no one can see them" was his comment. "Run, run a mile!" was the thought running through my head.

At my insistence, he incorporated squats into my routine. So here's what we've come up with -- I wondered what people here thought of this routine, particularly in comparison with the one that I put together earlier (see this thread (http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=76762)).

Day One (Chest)

Bench Press 5 x 10 (2 work sets)
DB Incline Press 3 x 10
DB Flat Bench 3 x 10
Butterfly 3 x 10
Tricep Pushdown 3 x 10
(opt: Leg Press)


Day Three (Shoulders)

Clean & Press 4 x 8
DB Shoulder Press 3 x 10
Squat 4 x 10
Shrugs 4 x 10
Upright row 4 x 10


Day Five (Back)

Deadlift 3 x 10
Chin-ups 4 x 10
Seated row 4 x 10
DB Lat Row 4 x 10
Biceps Curl 3 x 10
Barbell 21s 2 x 21
Lat Pulldown 3 x 10


I'm most concerned that there is absolutely no ab work, and not very much leg work. Granted, my goal is to increase the size of my upper body, but without incorporating squats or other big compound moves, I'm convinced that I'm putting hurdles in the way of my progress.

Thoughts on the routine? I think I've already made my mind up about the trainer....

[mark27]

I personally dont like the routine but if i had to do it ide change a few things. Note I am no pt. First ide drop the db flat bench. Your already doing flat bb bench(you can alternate every once in a while with db but no need to do both on the same day). And ide do 5 working sets (5x5). I dont include warmup sets in my total count set for the week, however thats just me. Next ide maybe finish off with some dips. So thats giving you 8 working sets for chest and ide do maybe 2 sets for dips.

For shoulders ide stick with db shoulder press with 3 sets, and maybe some laterals. Ide switch laterals with rear delts every week maybe. If you do deadlifts all that trap work aint really ness. But if you feel the need to do a trap excercise stay with the bb shrugs. And looks like you want to do squats here to, do them first in you workout maybe 5x5.

For your back ide do deadlifts 5x5 first then hit the chinups(alternate with pullups or pulldowns every few weeks or whenever you want, just make sure you can gauge your progress.) Then maybe 2 row excercises(bb row, db row,t bar). And lastly maybe 1 excercise of biceps with 2 sets.

Ide also work abs once a week, and input more leg excercises(leg press,lying leg curls, on another note some minor calf work).

And also remember im no trainer I can just offer my advise through years of trial and error. But this is very important what im going to say. Even a good pt cant give you the perfect routine, he can only give you the guidlines. Everybody reacts differently. In the end it will be up to you to be able to know how your body reacts, feels, changes, and wat sets,reps,excercises you should change.

Just my 2 $.00

[mercury]

Considering how this PT has neglected legs, I would put any other his advice as suspect. It's a terrible routine, and you will have much better luck finding a good one on this website.

[mark27]

ide check out the baby got back article (thats the one i currently use but modified just a tad on the sets side of things.)

Better yet print out that routine and show your pt that right in front of the owner..comparing hes routine with the far superior one you found. Thats what he gets for neglecting legs. "just run" rofl you wont be the one running.... the girls will be running when they see some buff upperbod and sum cat legs. :P

[MixmasterNash]

That routine sucks.

Step 1: Get a new personal trainer.

[Canadian Crippler]

It's pathetic that he was given his certificate to be a PT. Shows how stupid those courses truly are.

[Meat_Head]

Here's some changes that would make this routine worthwhile:






Day One (Press)

Bench Press 5 x 5-8 (2 work sets)
DB Incline Press 3 x 6-10
DB Flat Bench 3 x 6-10
DB military press 3 x 8-10


Day Three (Lower body)

Squat 4 x 4-8
Deadlift 3 x 5
Clean 3 x 3


Day Five (Back)

Chin-ups 4 x 5-8
Barbell/supported row 4 x 5-8
Lat Pulldown 3 x 10




As you can see, its completely different. Either get a new PT, or use this website as your PT(better choice).

[Davidelmo]

I agree with meathead completely.

A shoulder day with squats thrown in... completely the wrong approach IMO.

[Nito]

That PT is a total moron.

[mark27]

ouch i could never do deads and squats same day but thats just me.

[Meat_Head]

Mark, vary the intensity and it works very well

[TheLittleGuy]

Step 1: Get a new personal trainer.

I debated a long time about whether to invest in a personal trainer. I'm a reasonably bright guy and have invested a lot of time in learning about exercise and diet -- through books and websites like this. Chatting to the trainer at the gym, it seemed (at first glance) that the guy seemed to know what he was talking about, which is why I decided to try out an hour's session in the first place.

We were about ten minutes into the session. He looked at my initial proposal (from the link above) and came up with his counterproposal. When he tried to cut the squats, I knew I was headed down the wrong path...

The thing I hear again and again from countless sources is this:


Thou shalt Squat
Thou shalt perform thy Deadlifts
Thou shalt lay upon the Bench and lift heavy things
Thou shalt Eat like the swine


Follow thee my commandments and thou shalt get hy00ge.

I'm a skinny guy. All the pec flys in the world aren't going to make me big without doing some serious compound exercises and lifting some serious pounds.

It also confirms my general suspicion of personal trainers. Perhaps they're useful for checking your form & technique, but in terms of creating a workout, there's plenty of material out there for free, which is better than 90% of the stuff the so-called "experts" are peddling.

There's $40 of my hard-earned and an hour of my life I'll never get back...

[Meat_Head]

Sounds like you are on the right track 100%. At least you've learned your lesson about PT's :D Keep following those commandments and you'll start making serious progress in no time.

[Davidelmo]

Yep, nice work.

You dont need a PT.. not even to check form.

Just post a video here and we'll help you! :D :D

[TheLittleGuy]

So I totally ignored my "trainer" and followed the routine I'd proposed on here earlier.

Squatted. Deadlifted. Then threw in some leg presses and calf raises with what little energy I had left. I'll be sore tomorrow, but that's okay. At least I'll have accomplished something.

Washed it all down with a protein shake, 600 calories of nuts, and a carb drink. I'm going to go to sleep tonight and get at least 8 hours.

Tomorrow morning, I'll wake up and be hy00ge. (Okay, that's the Sleeping Beauty theory, not widely accepted by scientists. But it's a nice dream).

Okay, I accept I won't be hy00ge. But I will be a lot closer than I would if I'd had a "Shoulder" day today. Involving 60% of my muscle mass gets me a lot closer to my goal than involving 10%.

[Meat_Head]

Excellent, keep eating and lifting heavy and you'll be getting hyooge in no time

[Davidelmo]

Exactly... actually this P*sses me off quite a lot actually.

This guy has presumably gone through exams etc to call himself "personal trainer", right? That's pretty disgraceful actually.. it just devalues the qualification for anyone else.

To say "bah, legs dont matter - you wear trousers anyway" is just idiotic.

You're exactly right to ditch this moron.

[Built]

"It struck me that there was a fairly fundamental component missing in this routine..."
But you normally wear sweats, so no one can see them

Wow.

[TheLittleGuy]

Wow.

Built, I didn't realise you were so impressed with his skills. He still has sessions free if you want some of his advice. You want I should book you an appointment?

[TheLittleGuy]

ouch i could never do deads and squats same day but thats just me.

Today was my first day of combined squats & deads. Maybe it was because I was pissed off with the trainer and wanted to prove him wrong. Maybe it was just a good day when I was well rested. But I shifted more weight than I have before, for more reps, which is great.

More importantly, I like the idea of mixing deads & squats on the same day. You hit the legs hard, but more importantly, you exercise a HUGE amount of your total muscle volume in one day. Involving that much muscle volume at once has got to boost growth, right?

Or is my thinking flawed? (Admittedly, I'm not a PT. Which apparently doesn't make a d*mn bit of difference!)

[Skinny Fat]

Engaging a lot of muscle = good.

Engaging ALL your muscle, and expecting to do anything soon thereafter = not so good.

Since it was your first day, you're doing fine, I'm sure. You may not be able to walk tomorrow, but... In general, you're going to want to push so much weight in the squat and pull so much weight in the DL, that it will beat you down. I just split those two up myself - it's for the best. If you light squat and light DL, you could probably do it. But if you're really testing yourself, you're going to burn out.

[Canadian Crippler]

Today was my first day of combined squats & deads. Maybe it was because I was pissed off with the trainer and wanted to prove him wrong. Maybe it was just a good day when I was well rested. But I shifted more weight than I have before, for more reps, which is great.

More importantly, I like the idea of mixing deads & squats on the same day. You hit the legs hard, but more importantly, you exercise a HUGE amount of your total muscle volume in one day. Involving that much muscle volume at once has got to boost growth, right?

Or is my thinking flawed? (Admittedly, I'm not a PT. Which apparently doesn't make a d*mn bit of difference!)If you know all this why did you hire a PT? Dunno but this sounds like BS to me.

[Davidelmo]

Since it was your first day, you're doing fine, I'm sure. You may not be able to walk tomorrow, but... In general, you're going to want to push so much weight in the squat and pull so much weight in the DL, that it will beat you down. I just split those two up myself - it's for the best. If you light squat and light DL, you could probably do it. But if you're really testing yourself, you're going to burn out.

I agree.

I do deads and squats a few days apart so that I can give each one my best effort.

No point wearing myself out on one and not doing my best at the other.

[Built]

Built, I didn't realise you were so impressed with his skills. He still has sessions free if you want some of his advice. You want I should book you an appointment?

Awesome. Tell him I'm looking to tone up my tummy. But I don't want to get all big and stuff.

[sCaRz*Of*PaiN]

Awesome. Tell him I'm looking to tone up my tummy. But I don't want to get all big and stuff.AHHH!! The "T" WORD!!! MY EYES, THEY BURN!!

[TheLittleGuy]

If you know all this why did you hire a PT? Dunno but this sounds like BS to me.

I hired a PT for three reasons. One was motivation -- every so often it's good to have a kick in the a$$. My gains had levelled off despite changing my routine around. I suppose a workout partner could have provided the same benefit, but I don't have a workout partner.

The second reason is that I (naively) thought this guy knew what he was talking about. I went in with the same routine that I posted here and asked him to critique it. Turns out I got better advice here.

The third reason I went was to get the PT to check my form. While I've had squats in my routine for a while, this is the first time I've incorporated DLs. I wanted to be sure I wasn't going seriously wreck my back when I was doing them.

Call it BS if you want. But it's really a simple story -- I went to a PT for the reasons above, and came back very disappointed. That's really all there is to say.

[TheLittleGuy]

Since it was your first day, you're doing fine, I'm sure. You may not be able to walk tomorrow, but... In general, you're going to want to push so much weight in the squat and pull so much weight in the DL, that it will beat you down. I just split those two up myself - it's for the best. If you light squat and light DL, you could probably do it. But if you're really testing yourself, you're going to burn out.

Sounds like good advice. I'll move DL to back day, leaving me with a clear chest/arms; back; legs split routine.

And for what it's worth, the first traces of DOMS are creeping in. They normally kick in 100% about 24-36 hours after I work out.

[Davidelmo]

^^ Sounds good.

Here's a tip though. Don't do chest on Monday because there are always HUGE queues for the benches. Try doing legs on the Monday and the squat rack is more likely to be free :D

If you want help with deadlift form there are a few videos of deadlifts in the members pics and videos forum. If you're concerned, video yourself and upload it and we'll critique your form.

[TheLittleGuy]

Here's a tip though. Don't do chest on Monday because there are always HUGE queues for the benches. Try doing legs on the Monday and the squat rack is more likely to be free :D

I don't do anything on Mondays. Tuesday, Friday, and Sunday are my gym days. Nice and quiet.

I f***ing hate waiting for equipment. :mad:

[ddegroff]

its amazing how on monday everybody and there sister is in the gym, then less on tuesday, even less on wednesday, etc. etc. I workout late friday nights, its usually me and two other guys. I workout @ 24hr so its always packed but i guess all the other gym rats have better things to do on a friday night.

Looks like you you've figured everything out for your routine. I use to do deads/squats on the same day. I moved my deads to my second back day and both lifts have imporoved.

The routine I wrote for my PT exam was a freaking joke. Its nowhere close to a routine I would write for my girlfriend, friends or myself.

[Gabrielle]

yea, mon wed fri sux..I usually do tues thurs sat its great. You are on the right track bro keep it up

[Darcy Tucker]

I'm a certified personal trainer but have not gotten a job yet. They company I got certified, has kind of an outline of the way they want you to set up routines. For younger people I know I will not be training them the way they say but for older adults i'm a bit more confused.

[Holto]

I've never been so proud to be a member of this community.

The OP knew right away the trainer was wack from what he had learned here and was able to make a better routine.

It's good to have experiences like this to realize how good the info learned here can be.

[mercury]

I hired a PT for three reasons. One was motivation -- every so often it's good to have a kick in the a$$. My gains had levelled off despite changing my routine around. I suppose a workout partner could have provided the same benefit, but I don't have a workout partner.

The second reason is that I (naively) thought this guy knew what he was talking about. I went in with the same routine that I posted here and asked him to critique it. Turns out I got better advice here.

The third reason I went was to get the PT to check my form. While I've had squats in my routine for a while, this is the first time I've incorporated DLs. I wanted to be sure I wasn't going seriously wreck my back when I was doing them.

Call it BS if you want. But it's really a simple story -- I went to a PT for the reasons above, and came back very disappointed. That's really all there is to say.
Those are all good reasons. The only flaw I can see in all of this was the PT.

[John04Civic]

Considering how this PT has neglected legs, I would put any other his advice as suspect. It's a terrible routine, and you will have much better luck finding a good one on this website.
+1

[TheLittleGuy]

+1

You've added value to this thread like my PT added value to my routine. ;)