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View Full Version : So I entered Jay Cutler's diet into my fitday...



Davidelmo
03-30-2006, 07:06 AM
EDIT: Just noticed the type in the title.. could a mod please change it so I dont look stupid, thanks! :p

Insane:

Total calories: 6156
Fat: 110g
Carbs: 197g
Protein: 1028g

The man eats 64 oz of flounder (some sort of fish) which gives him almost 4000kcal and 822g of protein.

His diet is found here:
http://www.jaycutler.com/sub/nutrition.htm

I didn't include supplements like the nitrotech, GAKIC etc.

I know people here bulk on more, but this guys appetite is ridiculous. No way could I ever dream of eating 64 oz of fish, a 12oz steak and 20 egg whites.

Just though this was interesting ;)

Edit:
Borrins kindly pointed out that I had put 64oz of smoked flouder, not raw.

He suggested the following macros instead:
Cals = 1961
gFat = 63.42
gCarb = 5.46
gProtein = 324.28

This would put Jays totals (not including supplements) at:
Cals: 4196
Fat : 121g
Carb: 202g
Protein: 531g

Disappointing actually.. I eat 4000kcal a day.. not as much protein though.

hmm...

Shao-LiN
03-30-2006, 07:07 AM
Light weight...I can out eat him...bring it on!

Davidelmo
03-30-2006, 07:08 AM
Light weight...I can out eat him...bring it on!

:D:D

Canadian Crippler
03-30-2006, 07:08 AM
I don't see why he keeps his protein that high. It's ridiculous, no one is getting use out of a kilogram of protein a day. Maybe it's his preferred macro, who knows.

Beast
03-30-2006, 07:10 AM
Crazy protein, but the calories don't really impress me.

Jinkies
03-30-2006, 07:10 AM
62 oz flounder..... thats alot of fish

Davidelmo
03-30-2006, 07:14 AM
Yeah.. the founder is divided up into 4 meals of 16oz each. It makes up 4 of his 7 meals. I hate fish.. i wish i liked it.

1kg of protein is pretty crazy! It's obviously working though. He was 260+lbs at 3% BF last time he entered Mr Olympia.

By the way it doesn't say whether this is his cutting/bulking diet.

dw06wu
03-30-2006, 07:35 AM
Flounder is damn good. You might not like ****ty fish, but I can almost guarantee you that you would like flounder.

Davidelmo
03-30-2006, 08:13 AM
Maybe I'll give it a go.. to be honest I'd never heard of it before!

Holto
03-30-2006, 10:12 AM
So the 1000g's of protein doesn't include his nitrotech?

Slim Schaedle
03-30-2006, 01:54 PM
I don't see why he keeps his protein that high. It's ridiculous, no one is getting use out of a kilogram of protein a day. Maybe it's his preferred macro, who knows.
I tend to agree with you on the actual use issue.

However, although carbs and proteins are the same calorically, the body requires more energy in the digestion of proteins.

Aside from the obvious reason to have low carbs in order to utilize primarily fat tissue for energy, that's another reason to have hike up the protein during cutting. I am guessing that's his cutting diet. Maybe not.

smalls
03-30-2006, 01:58 PM
Yeah.. the founder is divided up into 4 meals of 16oz each. It makes up 4 of his 7 meals. I hate fish.. i wish i liked it.

1kg of protein is pretty crazy! It's obviously working though. He was 260+lbs at 3% BF last time he entered Mr Olympia.

By the way it doesn't say whether this is his cutting/bulking diet.


If that diet is even his then he is cutting. Look at the carbs and fat. I eat more carbs and fat than that to cut and i'm a damn little girl next to him.

He probably has his protein that high to cut and drops it down to bulk, just a guess. If I remember right he is a fan of rediculously high carb intakes. And BCC's protein intake is almost right there with him, IMO more is better.

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
03-30-2006, 02:52 PM
So the 1000g's of protein doesn't include his nitrotech?LOL...nope. :thumbup:

Davidelmo
03-30-2006, 04:12 PM
If that diet is even his then he is cutting. Look at the carbs and fat. I eat more carbs and fat than that to cut and i'm a damn little girl next to him.

He probably has his protein that high to cut and drops it down to bulk, just a guess. If I remember right he is a fan of rediculously high carb intakes. And BCC's protein intake is almost right there with him, IMO more is better.

Yeah, it might be his cutting. His maintenance must be ~8k (included the Nitrotech and other supplements in there too.)

It probably isn't even what he eats in a day. I find the fact that he eats 2kg of fish and a huge steak every day a little hard to swallow (hehe).

235orbust
03-30-2006, 06:41 PM
eggs are overrated

Slim Schaedle
03-30-2006, 11:17 PM
eggs are overrated
:scratch:

getfit
03-31-2006, 02:14 AM
eggs are overrated
eggs are an excellent source of protein what are you talking about?

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
03-31-2006, 02:30 AM
Eggs are thought of as "the perfect protein". They have the highest usability and all other protein sources are considered to be under eggs. Saying they're overrated is just silly.

brickt.
03-31-2006, 02:47 AM
I concur that eggs are awesome, athough Beef is still the protein king.

I'll send you guys eggs in exchange for cow, k?

Clifford Gillmore
03-31-2006, 03:08 AM
I eat more than him.

Davidelmo
03-31-2006, 05:03 AM
haha, nice responses guys and thank you to whoever edited the title!

Eggs.. I dont eat them myself (I know I should) but I was suprised that 20 egg whites only came to ~60g of protein and ~350kcal. Maybe I entered it in wrong? Does an egg white really only contain 3g of protein?

accuFLEX
03-31-2006, 05:20 AM
Kerry's Special Fat Free Oatmeal Cookie Recipe



Here is the much requested recipe for you to enjoy as well:

Ingredients:
1/2 cup Brown Sugar
1/2 cup Sugar
3 Egg Whites
1 tsp. Vanilla
1 1/2 cups Flour
1 tsp. Baking Soda
1 tsp. Cinnamon
3 cups Old Fashion Oats
1 1/2 cups Unsweetened Applesauce


This is from his site too. WOW a cup of sugar!

Optimum08
03-31-2006, 05:48 AM
haha, nice responses guys and thank you to whoever edited the title!

Eggs.. I dont eat them myself (I know I should) but I was suprised that 20 egg whites only came to ~60g of protein and ~350kcal. Maybe I entered it in wrong? Does an egg white really only contain 3g of protein?

well yes, most of the cals in eggs come from the yolk, as does the other 3 or so grams of protein in the egg...

Davidelmo
03-31-2006, 06:00 AM
This is from his site too. WOW a cup of sugar!

Smalls must have been right... he like his carb intake high.


well yes, most of the cals in eggs come from the yolk, as does the other 3 or so grams of protein in the egg...

Gotcha. He eats two whole eggs as well as the twenty whites.

Isaac Wilkins
03-31-2006, 06:18 AM
64oz of flounder is:

Cals = 2112
gFat ~ 32
gCarb = 0
gProtein = 448

Via the US govt database.

Davidelmo
03-31-2006, 06:39 AM
Hmm, on fitday I chose "Flounder, smoked" 64oz boneless.

Isaac Wilkins
03-31-2006, 06:47 AM
He's talking about raw weight. Smoking greatly dehydrates the fish, so 64oz of smoked fish is a whole hell of a lot more than 64oz of raw.

I just Fitday'ed 64oz baked or broiled, which would probably be what he did, pre-cooked weight.

Cals = 1961
gFat = 63.42
gCarb = 5.46
gProtein = 324.28

That includes some margarine, which he probably doesn't use. So knock a bit of fat (probably about half) off of that.

Davidelmo
03-31-2006, 06:50 AM
Cool, thanks for the correction.

I'll update the first post.

Isaac Wilkins
03-31-2006, 06:52 AM
No problem. It's still a ****load of fish.

Bob
03-31-2006, 06:58 AM
Eggs are over-rated.. Wow, that has to be one of the all-time classic Noob responses... I can only hope 235orbust stays on WBB long enough to learn.

Or maybe... he just has a great sense of sarcastic humor that we are missing??

on the original post... that's a lot of Flounder.. and I saw ariel at Disney World and she wasn't that hot... the movie does her better.. :-0

Jordanbcool
03-31-2006, 11:33 AM
Eggs are over-rated.. Wow, that has to be one of the all-time classic Noob responses... I can only hope 235orbust stays on WBB long enough to learn.

Or maybe... he just has a great sense of sarcastic humor that we are missing??

on the original post... that's a lot of Flounder.. and I saw ariel at Disney World and she wasn't that hot... the movie does her better.. :-0

Eh he probably just dosent like eggs. I tried eating them raw and i almost threw up. It tastes like snot. Other then that though i usually go through a dozen eggs a day :)

IMO they are the PERFECT protein source. Easy to digest and a perfect balance of fats and protein.

-jordan

Slim Schaedle
03-31-2006, 11:40 AM
I tried eating them raw and i almost threw up. It tastes like snot. Your body can't use them correctly when raw.

seK
03-31-2006, 12:32 PM
If you rinse them in hot water you should be fine.

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
03-31-2006, 01:57 PM
Or you could cook them for like 2-3 minutes and they'll be easier to eat and digest.

235orbust
03-31-2006, 02:04 PM
anyone seen fitdays new layout? pretty nice

ddegroff
03-31-2006, 03:21 PM
^way different

Davidelmo
03-31-2006, 03:21 PM
^^ Yeah I noticed that too... nice but it looks a little more cluttered to me. Maybe I'm just used to the more simplistic layout and colour scheme.

Sidior
03-31-2006, 05:13 PM
Or you could cook them for like 2-3 minutes and they'll be easier to eat and digest.

ya but that takes a whole 2-3 min:rolleyes:

tj_muller
03-31-2006, 06:21 PM
That seems like a cutting diet for him (low carbs/cals). He probaly eats more when he's bulking.

Jordanbcool
03-31-2006, 10:43 PM
Your body can't use them correctly when raw.

If you cook them you loose alot of its protein and other nutrients.

The risk of somanela is .0003%. If thats whats on your mind.

-jordan

Slim Schaedle
03-31-2006, 11:50 PM
If you cook them you loose alot of its protein and other nutrients.

The risk of somanela is .0003%. If thats whats on your mind.

-jordan
Salmonella, or however you spell it, is not what was on my mind.

But, denaturing by cooking was......since raw egg whites contain a glycoprotein called avidin, which binds to eggs' supply of the B vitamin biotin, preventing its absorption. Cooking the egg whites changes avidin, making it susceptible to digestion and unable to interfere with the intestinal absorption of biotin.

And, the first part of your post is wrong.

ddegroff
04-01-2006, 01:23 AM
^yeah great post slim! Why does everybody think that cooking makes parts of food disapear, where does it go? Cooking makes it easier to digest (oh wait slim already said that).

seK
04-01-2006, 01:27 PM
^yeah great post slim! Why does everybody think that cooking makes parts of food disapear, where does it go? Cooking makes it easier to digest (oh wait slim already said that).
Some foods you actually do lose nutritional value by cooking them.

Jordanbcool
04-01-2006, 02:27 PM
Salmonella, or however you spell it, is not what was on my mind.

But, denaturing by cooking was......since raw egg whites contain a glycoprotein called avidin, which binds to eggs' supply of the B vitamin biotin, preventing its absorption. Cooking the egg whites changes avidin, making it susceptible to digestion and unable to interfere with the intestinal absorption of biotin.

And, the first part of your post is wrong.

http://www.mercola.com/2002/nov/13/eggs.htm

http://www.mercola.com/2002/jul/6/biotin.htm

http://www.diagnose-me.com/cond/C244364.html

http://www.jrussellshealth.com/cholesterol.html

A few "tidbits" of links and information. I dont think I'm wrong because theres alot of information to support what i said about cooking away much of the protein found in eggs. I like to eat them raw but only in my protein shakes. I also eat them scrambled. Your correct about biotin, but its a matter of personal preferance on what you want to give up/gain when choosing to eat them raw or fully cooked. I wouldnt go so far as to say either of us are right, because we both are. However if im missing something please point it out. I realize your extensive knowledge in biological chemicals and compounds when it comes to bodybuilding, however I have never met you and never will. Therefore i can only go off of what I research/read.

Cheers.

-jordan

P.S. Comment me back please, because if i should stop eating raw eggs let me know. I will not however stop because of the risk of somanilla. At worst I will be bed-ridden for a day and have the sh*ts. Plus a .003 percent isnt of any concern to me.

ddegroff
04-01-2006, 02:50 PM
Some foods you actually do lose nutritional value by cooking them.

All I can think of is boiling veggies, you lose some of he nutrients in the water. Do you know of any other situations?

brickt.
04-01-2006, 03:40 PM
http://www.mercola.com/2002/nov/13/eggs.htm

http://www.mercola.com/2002/jul/6/biotin.htm

http://www.diagnose-me.com/cond/C244364.html

http://www.jrussellshealth.com/cholesterol.html



Haha, those links sure do look credible...

seK
04-01-2006, 05:42 PM
All I can think of is boiling veggies, you lose some of he nutrients in the water. Do you know of any other situations?
Allot of meats will lose many vitamins when cooked, for many different reasons some are destroyed by heat and some are absorbed into the water they are cooked in. Not to mention the excess fluid that drains off many when you cook them contains many other beneficial nutrients. None are a substantial loss but they are a loss none the less.

You could also add in many Fruits especially any that contain Vitamin C.

Ironman15
04-02-2006, 04:23 AM
I'm not going to get into this debate, but I did notice something intersting when comparing two of the articles.

This excerpt was taken from the first one....
http://www.mercola.com/2002/nov/13/eggs.htm



And this from another one of a different author....
http://www.jrussellshealth.com/cholesterol.html


Anyone notice something funny?

Is it written by the same person, or do we have some copyright/plagarism issues going on here?

Slim Schaedle
04-02-2006, 04:28 AM
I deleted my post. Credit was given to Dr. Mercola at the end of the article.

Although it was supposed to be the exact article by Mercola, the wording differed slightly. I don't like websites like those at all.

Jordanbcool
04-02-2006, 04:07 PM
I deleted my post. Credit was given to Dr. Mercola at the end of the article.

Although it was supposed to be the exact article by Mercola, the wording differed slightly. I don't like websites like those at all.

Im really confused. Are you saying the articles are BS or that they are legit.

Also I cant seem to find what post you deleted, unless it only shows up to you that it was deleted and not everyone else.

Not trying to be an ass or anything but you know more then i do. Like i said though, i can only go off what i read and im about to make another protein shake with raw eggs in about 5 minutes. So if i should REALLY stop i'd like to know ASAP so im not screwing myself over somehow.

-jordan

brickt.
04-02-2006, 04:26 PM
Im really confused. Are you saying the articles are BS or that they are legit.

Also I cant seem to find what post you deleted, unless it only shows up to you that it was deleted and not everyone else.

Not trying to be an ass or anything but you know more then i do. Like i said though, i can only go off what i read and im about to make another protein shake with raw eggs in about 5 minutes. So if i should REALLY stop i'd like to know ASAP so im not screwing myself over somehow.

-jordan

I think those links you posted are very dodgey, and I believe Slim and Ironman do too.

Rememeber, don't believe everything you read on the net, alot is absolute bull****.

You can take those eggs raw, if you really want. Just remember that 1) the protein bioavailabilty is not what it could be and 2) you might catch salmonella and die a horrible, horrible death.

Slim Schaedle
04-02-2006, 08:33 PM
Im really confused. Are you saying the articles are BS or that they are legit.
Neither.

I didn't read them in depth. What I did notice that both have a paragraph that is 99% verbatim of eachother. I posted both of them and mentioned that it looked fishy.

Then I went back to this link http://www.jrussellshealth.com/cholesterol.html and noticed that the author, or whoever, cited Mercola at the end of the particular section.

It's still funny b/c the wording should be exactly the same if it was taken directly from the work he cited. But, it's not.

Whatever.

Jordanbcool
04-02-2006, 09:54 PM
I think those links you posted are very dodgey, and I believe Slim and Ironman do too.

Rememeber, don't believe everything you read on the net, alot is absolute bull****.

You can take those eggs raw, if you really want. Just remember that 1) the protein bioavailabilty is not what it could be and 2) you might catch salmonella and die a horrible, horrible death.

Like i said the chances are absolutly low. So low that personally i think the only way i could catch it is if fate or god really had it out for me. Keep in mind that i've only taken raw eggs in my shakes and only to supplement the extra calories/fat/protein to make my shakes that much effective. I've only been eating raw eggs for this past week. That being said eggs are a HUGE part of my diet, they make up alot of my daily protein. Most of the time its just srcambled. Actually an hour ago i had some scrambled eggs.

Its really scary how much information on the internet is wrong. Most people are trying to help out, but i think mis-information can be just as bad as child pornography. I really think there should be laws against some of the garbage thats posted because it wastes so much of peoples time. It also has the potential to do great harm. I see so many sites that claim to have good bodybuilding tips, when about half of it is BS. Half of the stuff on this forum can (but its not lol or atleast i dont think it is) be BS. I just go off of what happens/works for me. Bodybuilding is like going to school everyday, because im always learning something new to better myself. Bodybuilding is so much more then lifting weights.

-jordan

brickt.
04-03-2006, 02:49 AM
but i think mis-information can be just as bad as child pornography

Please tell me you are not ****ing serious.

Jordanbcool
04-03-2006, 08:29 AM
Please tell me you are not ****ing serious.

I am. Some mis-information could have life threatening results.

-jordan

ddegroff
04-03-2006, 11:46 AM
Allot of meats will lose many vitamins when cooked, for many different reasons some are destroyed by heat and some are absorbed into the water they are cooked in. Not to mention the excess fluid that drains off many when you cook them contains many other beneficial nutrients. None are a substantial loss but they are a loss none the less.

I was talking about denaturing protein not cooking out the nutrients. I don't think cooking meat your gonna lose that many vitamins or RD's wouldn't recommend eating whole natural foods (they don't recommend eating a steak raw). Unless you can show me some good info saying otherwise. I already addressed boiling vs. steaming veggies.



You could also add in many Fruits especially any that contain Vitamin C.

or a multi-v

BCC
04-03-2006, 11:57 AM
Jordan's right on. Raw egg's are the ****. I ate 20 a day for 6 months. If you're the average American with a cheeseburger for an immune system then yeah you should probably avoid raw eggs.

Slim Schaedle
04-03-2006, 01:01 PM
hmmm, 2 posts were deleted from this thread. Neato

Jordanbcool
04-03-2006, 03:35 PM
Jordan's right on. Raw egg's are the ****. I ate 20 a day for 6 months. If you're the average American with a cheeseburger for an immune system then yeah you should probably avoid raw eggs.

I like putting them in my shakes. They give a considerable boost to my calories/protein/fat...Other then that i gag on them raw.

Like i said...they taste like snot!

-jordan

djreef
04-03-2006, 03:39 PM
Damn Chase, you're one tuff bitch. 20 a day, cripe. Just the thought is making me wretch, and I'm pretty much a garbage can when it comes to food.

DJ

Davidelmo
04-03-2006, 03:44 PM
urgh i hate eggs.. yurgh.

Come to think of it i dont like most of the things which are good for us bodybuilders... eggs, fish, potatoes

seK
04-03-2006, 03:45 PM
I was talking about denaturing protein not cooking out the nutrients. I don't think cooking meat your gonna lose that many vitamins or RD's wouldn't recommend eating whole natural foods (they don't recommend eating a steak raw). Unless you can show me some good info saying otherwise. I already addressed boiling vs. steaming veggies.



or a multi-v

The first part was just a lack of clarification, now that you have clarified what you mean I do agree. What I mean by "adding" in fruits is that you can add them to the list of foods that lose nutrients when cooked, specifically those that contain Vit C. Also you could just avoid the whole situation and just eat sushi for and raw veggies: P

ddegroff
04-03-2006, 03:47 PM
Yeah i was adding to the fruit part of your thread thats all.

mmm... had sushi yesterday

trunksy
04-05-2006, 01:23 PM
Jordan's right on. Raw egg's are the ****. I ate 20 a day for 6 months. If you're the average American with a cheeseburger for an immune system then yeah you should probably avoid raw eggs.

Some would argue that bodybuilders have an even weaker than the "average American" immune systeme whether the average American immune systems is "cheeseburger" or not when a bodybuilder is "on". Of course, that's also probably when you'd be eating 20 egg whites a day too.

http://www.irishhealth.com/index.html?level=4&id=6195
http://www.channel4sales.com/news/news-article.aspx?year=2004&id=177

Which ones you're "on" will effect it and your overall training intensity will all factor into it since your immune system will be busy trying to repair all the damage to your body caused during training.

Holto
04-05-2006, 01:37 PM
http://www.irishhealth.com/index.html?level=4&id=6195
http://www.channel4sales.com/news/news-article.aspx?year=2004&id=177


This is kind of meaningless without knowing the dosage.

Most sterioid users realize the effect on their immunity. Most steroid users have lifstyles similar to Catholic Nuns to compensate.

Davidelmo
04-05-2006, 01:42 PM
Some would argue that bodybuilders have an even weaker than the "average American" whether the average American immune systems is "cheeseburger" or not when a bodybuilder is "on". Of course, that's also probably when you'd be eating 20 egg whites a day too.

http://www.irishhealth.com/index.html?level=4&id=6195
http://www.channel4sales.com/news/news-article.aspx?year=2004&id=177

Of course, which ones you're "on" will effect it and your overall training intensity will all factor into it since your immune system will be busy trying to repair all the damage to your body caused during training.

You know not every bodybuilder does steroids, right? :nod:

trunksy
04-05-2006, 03:57 PM
You know not every bodybuilder does steroids, right? :nod:

I never said all bodybuilders at all times. I qualified it. Additionally, being "on" wouldn't be the only thing that would decrease a bodybuilder's immune response. Prolonged overtraining could also create the same effect. Being "on" just happened to be the easiest one to pick on. Your immune system isn't a discreet structure. It is a network of complex interactions at many different levels, involving the white blood cells, bone marrow, lymph tissues and vessels, the nervous system, and many different chemical components as well. My point was that just because you're a bodybuilder doesn't proclude you from risk factors to a decreased immune response. There are, in fact, unique risk factors to bodybuilders and more generally, athletes.

ddegroff
04-05-2006, 04:32 PM
Some would argue that bodybuilders have an even weaker than the "average American" immune systeme whether the average American immune systems is "cheeseburger" or not when a bodybuilder is "on". Of course, that's also probably when you'd be eating 20 egg whites a day too.

http://www.irishhealth.com/index.html?level=4&id=6195
http://www.channel4sales.com/news/news-article.aspx?year=2004&id=177

Which ones you're "on" will effect it and your overall training intensity will all factor into it since your immune system will be busy trying to repair all the damage to your body caused during training.


get all your vitamins each day and your immune system will be fine.

Davidelmo
04-05-2006, 05:11 PM
I never said all bodybuilders at all times. I qualified it. Additionally, being "on" wouldn't be the only thing that would decrease a bodybuilder's immune response. Prolonged overtraining could also create the same effect. Being "on" just happened to be the easiest one to pick on. Your immune system isn't a discreet structure. It is a network of complex interactions at many different levels, involving the white blood cells, bone marrow, lymph tissues and vessels, the nervous system, and many different chemical components as well. My point was that just because you're a bodybuilder doesn't proclude you from risk factors to a decreased immune response. There are, in fact, unique risk factors to bodybuilders and more generally, athletes.

It was only a joke, lol... sorry if it wasn't clear ;)

I've never heard of bodybuilding being linked with a weakened immune system though.. got any articles etc I could read? (med student and I'm just revising immunology right now actually, hehe... I could use the extra marks for "wider reading.")

smalls
04-05-2006, 07:18 PM
LOFL. Like I have said before PLEASE dont come here and post poorly executed studies (with no real link) and try to say that PROVES anything.

At least post the link to the ACTUAL study or the journal it can be found in.

This part I found especially intelligent
"The researchers also found that steroids could cause a change in the users' psychology, reducing their empathy for other people, and making them less sensitive to the effect of their actions on others. Unlike other drugs, which merely alter mood for a short time, this new evidence indicates steroids may cause a change to human personality, which is normally stable throughout life - a result that has potential implications for those convicted of criminal offences related to so called "'roid rage"."

Come on bro. A 6 week study found this to be permanent? LOL. What happened to peer reviewed studies and statistically significant findings?

I must have the immune system of a god. I've been using steroids for 2+ years and have been sick twice in that time period for no more than 10 hours at a time. Guess I havent been exposed to any viruses or else I would surely be wasting away cuz there is no way my body could fight it right?

Most people on this website who use understand the dangers associated with these drugs. Immune function is the least of our worries. One horribly done study done on 24 people doesnt change that.

Now back to the topic at hand? Raw eggs are grodie.

trunksy
04-05-2006, 09:17 PM
LOFL. Like I have said before PLEASE dont come here and post poorly executed studies (with no real link) and try to say that PROVES anything.

At least post the link to the ACTUAL study or the journal it can be found in.

This part I found especially intelligent
"The researchers also found that steroids could cause a change in the users' psychology, reducing their empathy for other people, and making them less sensitive to the effect of their actions on others. Unlike other drugs, which merely alter mood for a short time, this new evidence indicates steroids may cause a change to human personality, which is normally stable throughout life - a result that has potential implications for those convicted of criminal offences related to so called "'roid rage"."

Come on bro. A 6 week study found this to be permanent? LOL. What happened to peer reviewed studies and statistically significant findings?

I must have the immune system of a god. I've been using steroids for 2+ years and have been sick twice in that time period for no more than 10 hours at a time. Guess I havent been exposed to any viruses or else I would surely be wasting away cuz there is no way my body could fight it right?

Most people on this website who use understand the dangers associated with these drugs. Immune function is the least of our worries. One horribly done study done on 24 people doesnt change that.

Now back to the topic at hand? Raw eggs are grodie.

Touche! Nice job of using reductio ad absurdum. For the folks who are a bit slow, no, you're not going to get HIV-like symptoms from working out too hard.

Those articles were found with a quick Google search. I'd loved to have posted the link to newscientist.com but it is a pay site. There are, however, published studies going back to the 70's involving competitive athletes from different sports have documented that heavy athletic training can increase the risk of catching colds and flu.

Meanwhile, studies have also found that moderate exercise decreases the risk of upper respiratory tract infections and shortens the duration and severity of symptoms should the exerciser catch a cold or flu.

A study titled "Exercise, Immunity and Susceptibility to Infection" that was published in the 1999 Physician and Sports Medicine Journal (PSMJ) also pointed out that athletes face situations not usually experienced by regular exercisers, which makes them more vulnerable to infections. I'd love to find some of the published studies but I'm not at a library where I could look up a citation database. You're welcome to if you happen to be at a library. Either way, I'm not trying to prove anything. I totally understand your position to post studies as I am of the same position when it comes to some of the ass-wrong things people say on forums.

Yeah, bodybuilders have alot more things to worry about than immune function (Tom Prince and Bob Cicherillo's retirement come to mind).

And yeah, egg whites taste nasty but if you want the protein, you gotta'! I don't think BCC swallowed 20 egg whites a day for 6 months because they tasted oh so sweet and delicious. :lurk:

smalls
04-05-2006, 10:31 PM
I think were both coming from the same perspective. Your first post just seemed a little one sided.

Just dont want people to get the wrong idea.

And i'd much rather eat a can of tuna or a few scoops of whey than eggs. But as long as it gets the job done.

McIrish
04-05-2006, 11:03 PM
If I could quickly steer the conversation away from gear for one second and back to the egg debate, did anyone else actually closely read those links?

The good Doc M claimed "[When stirring raw eggs], only stir it gently with a fork, because egg protein easily gets damaged on a molecular level, even by mixing/blending."

??? Is he serious? I'm no biologist, but I'm fairly certain that protein is microscopic enough that vigorous agitation would not damage its molecular make-up. Feel free to correct me on that one.

Hmm... for me at least, the claim that vigorous stirring would alter the protein composition of a food casts aspersions on the validity of the rest of the article. Oh, and raw eggs sound damn nasty to eat :)

Slim Schaedle
04-06-2006, 05:09 AM
Just a quick note: Proteins have several different structures. Primary, secondary, tertiary, and quaternary.

The primary structure is the actual amino acid sequence.

Good luck screwing that up by stirring or cooking eggs in the typical fashion.

Sidior
04-06-2006, 05:20 AM
Just a quick note: Proteins have several different structures. Primary, secondary, tertiary, and quaternary.

The primary structure is the actual amino acid sequence.

Good luck screwing that up by stirring or cooking eggs in the typical fashion.

but what if you like put them in a blender?:p

trunksy
04-07-2006, 08:12 PM
If I could quickly steer the conversation away from gear for one second and back to the egg debate, did anyone else actually closely read those links?

The good Doc M claimed "[When stirring raw eggs], only stir it gently with a fork, because egg protein easily gets damaged on a molecular level, even by mixing/blending."

??? Is he serious? I'm no biologist, but I'm fairly certain that protein is microscopic enough that vigorous agitation would not damage its molecular make-up. Feel free to correct me on that one.

Hmm... for me at least, the claim that vigorous stirring would alter the protein composition of a food casts aspersions on the validity of the rest of the article. Oh, and raw eggs sound damn nasty to eat :)

Well, as a leading "alternative" medicine doctor, I'm not sure everything he says is all that effective. Through a quick google search, here's what the FDA had to say about him and his website:

http://www.casewatch.org/fdawarning/prod/2005/mercola.shtml

Health Fraud! Weeeee!

wrestlemaniac
04-07-2006, 08:35 PM
eggs are overrated
How dare you badmouth eggs

Jordanbcool
04-07-2006, 09:34 PM
Just a quick note: Proteins have several different structures. Primary, secondary, tertiary, and quaternary.

The primary structure is the actual amino acid sequence.

Good luck screwing that up by stirring or cooking eggs in the typical fashion.

I'd say extreme heat like the type required to turn an egg from a liquid to a solid is more then enough to mess with its molecular structures.

-jordan

Davidelmo
04-08-2006, 06:10 AM
I'd say extreme heat like the type required to turn an egg from a liquid to a solid is more then enough to mess with its molecular structures.

-jordan

I think you'll be suprised. Heating it will break the bonds that help to maintain the tertiary structure (i.e the shape of the polypeptide chain) but I doubt that you're going to alter the amino acid sequence.

Each amino acid is joined by a peptide bond, which is pretty strong. However the overall structures (including secondary structural components like beta sheets, alpha helices) are mostly maintained by hydrogen bonds which are fairly weak. The tertiary structure is held together by many weak forces - hydrogen bonds, ionic bonds, hydrophobic bonds etc. Occasionally it is stabilised by stronger S-S bonds - I have no idea if egg proteins are or not but I assume they probably have some disulphide bridges.

I dont think you heat an egg hot enough or long enough to affect the overall amino acid sequence. Certainly blending etc isn't going to change anything unless you're homogenising it at high pressure.

Slim Schaedle
04-08-2006, 08:58 AM
I'd say extreme heat like the type required to turn an egg from a liquid to a solid is more then enough to mess with its molecular structures.

-jordan

......uhhhh, which is exactly what I said in the post you just quoted.


But, if you read more closely, you will find the point I was making.

Slim Schaedle
04-08-2006, 08:59 AM
I think you'll be suprised. Heating it will break the bonds that help to maintain the tertiary structure (i.e the shape of the polypeptide chain) but I doubt that you're going to alter the amino acid sequence.

Each amino acid is joined by a peptide bond, which is pretty strong. However the overall structures (including secondary structural components like beta sheets, alpha helices) are mostly maintained by hydrogen bonds which are fairly weak. The tertiary structure is held together by many weak forces - hydrogen bonds, ionic bonds, hydrophobic bonds etc. Occasionally it is stabilised by stronger S-S bonds - I have no idea if egg proteins are or not but I assume they probably have some disulphide bridges.

I dont think you heat an egg hot enough or long enough to affect the overall amino acid sequence. Certainly blending etc isn't going to change anything unless you're homogenising it at high pressure.
To Jordan: :read:

trunksy
04-08-2006, 11:48 AM
To Jordan: :read:

We need more folks that can make intelligent posts like that. Bodybuilders get a bad rap for not being so bright.

Jordanbcool
04-08-2006, 02:20 PM
We need more folks that can make intelligent posts like that. Bodybuilders get a bad rap for not being so bright.

So im not to bright because i dont know the exact biology of an egg?

First off your comment was rude and.....well moronic to say the least.

Slim is an expert on this subject. I am not. Im here to have a discussion about it thats why they created these forums. I doubt your an expert on the subject matter either so if you have nothing to contribute dont waste the server space.

-jordan

Davidelmo
04-08-2006, 02:34 PM
To Jordan: :read:

I'm just glad you didnt pull me up on any wrong points :eek: :evillaugh

Slim Schaedle
04-08-2006, 06:23 PM
We need more folks that can make intelligent posts like that. Bodybuilders get a bad rap for not being so bright.
If that's a personal hit, I am obviously not bright or intelligent enough to get it.

Davidelmo
04-08-2006, 06:55 PM
Slim, I doubt it was aimed at you.

It's kinda true actually... before I started this whole BB'ing thing (lol) I used to think they *were* just meatheads...

Of course, like anything in life, there are people who don't know what the hell they're doing. The average guy in the gym probably doesn't have a clue, even if he's got a half-decent physique.. some people are just lucky. I see it all the time.. people doing crappy routines, bad exercises with ****ty form etc but they still get results. I doubt that guy knows about metabolism, PMSF dieting, insulin spiking, casein protein before bed etc etc but he still does fine.

I like to think we're better than that and that "knowledge is power." I know I wasted a year in the gym doing curls and eating complete crap and I'd be willing to bet i'm not the only one on this site who started out that way. Now I know what I'm doing, i'm seeing results. I dont blame ANYONE for starting out the way I did.

I wouldn't call Jordan stupid. Opinionated yes; stubborn, kinda; but stupid, no. He does listen, and thats what counts. I can see that he's VASTLY improved his knowledge and that he's putting it to good use - good for him. Everyone has questions they want answering, regardless of how smart they are or how knowledgeable they are. It's a good thing IMO.

On the other hand, I'm sure that half the people we give advice to on this forum wont even bother to follow it through. When people say "omg, what supplements should I buy?" and you tell them to eat food, they're still going to buy two tubs of NO-xplode anyway. People want quick, easy solutions. When people ask for diet plans and how many kcal they need and you tell them to track their diet for a few weeks, they're probably not going to do it.
Or maybe i'm too cynical?

/rambling

Jordanbcool
04-08-2006, 08:23 PM
Slim, I doubt it was aimed at you.

It's kinda true actually... before I started this whole BB'ing thing (lol) I used to think they *were* just meatheads...

Of course, like anything in life, there are people who don't know what the hell they're doing. The average guy in the gym probably doesn't have a clue, even if he's got a half-decent physique.. some people are just lucky. I see it all the time.. people doing crappy routines, bad exercises with ****ty form etc but they still get results. I doubt that guy knows about metabolism, PMSF dieting, insulin spiking, casein protein before bed etc etc but he still does fine.

I like to think we're better than that and that "knowledge is power." I know I wasted a year in the gym doing curls and eating complete crap and I'd be willing to bet i'm not the only one on this site who started out that way. Now I know what I'm doing, i'm seeing results. I dont blame ANYONE for starting out the way I did.

I wouldn't call Jordan stupid. Opinionated yes; stubborn, kinda; but stupid, no. He does listen, and thats what counts. I can see that he's VASTLY improved his knowledge and that he's putting it to good use - good for him. Everyone has questions they want answering, regardless of how smart they are or how knowledgeable they are. It's a good thing IMO.

On the other hand, I'm sure that half the people we give advice to on this forum wont even bother to follow it through. When people say "omg, what supplements should I buy?" and you tell them to eat food, they're still going to buy two tubs of NO-xplode anyway. People want quick, easy solutions. When people ask for diet plans and how many kcal they need and you tell them to track their diet for a few weeks, they're probably not going to do it.
Or maybe i'm too cynical?

/rambling

Im a very stubborn person.

That being said I have learned alot and i cant stand people that wont even listen.

Brings back memories of me blasting farmers walk....:bang:

I still dont like doing them though lol..

I've learned pretty much all my eating habits from built and slim

Cardio from brickt

And basic guidelines from you (Davidelmo) deeder, jorge and a host of others...Even though i cant stand jorge or deeder lol

-jordan

EDIT: O and i do try to listen more :)

UrbanSmooth
04-08-2006, 08:44 PM
What, so, we should all go around eating raw foods? Come on!

Jordanbcool
04-08-2006, 08:47 PM
What, so, we should all go around eating raw foods? Come on!

Wow i felt really smart when i looked at this post.

If you had some intelligence you'd know we were clearly talking about eggs.
Last time i checked "everything" was not eggs.

Holy christ...If your going to try and make me look dumb make an attempt instead of getting "egg on your face"

HA! I "crack" myself up.

Get it....Crack!!!

Fine i'll shut up.......geeez

-jordan

UrbanSmooth
04-08-2006, 08:51 PM
Wow i felt really smart when i looked at this post.

If you had some intelligence you'd know we were clearly talking about eggs.
Last time i checked "everything" was not eggs.

Holy christ...If your going to try and make me look dumb make an attempt instead of getting "egg on your face"

HA! I "crack" myself up.

Get it....Crack!!!

Fine i'll shut up.......geeez

-jordan

No, man, it's cool. Don't beat yourself up over it! Wahahahahaaaaaww!

Jordanbcool
04-08-2006, 09:07 PM
No, man, it's cool. Don't beat yourself up over it! Wahahahahaaaaaww!

Beat as in beat eggs? lol

i dont get it:confused:

-jordan

Davidelmo
04-09-2006, 05:54 AM
^^ lol

Jordan, you're in good hands.

A day will come when you look back and think "I can't believe I thought a calorie wasn't a calorie." hehe.

Either way, it's cool that you try to stand by your thoughts but can still admit you're wrong sometimes. That's probably why holto and others are spending their time trying to convince you in the other thread. Most other people, I just add to ignore because I lose IQ points reading their posts and it's obvious they're never going to understand/believe you.

trunksy
04-12-2006, 08:36 PM
So im not to bright because i dont know the exact biology of an egg?

First off your comment was rude and.....well moronic to say the least.

Slim is an expert on this subject. I am not. Im here to have a discussion about it thats why they created these forums. I doubt your an expert on the subject matter either so if you have nothing to contribute dont waste the server space.

-jordan

:omg: That was so not any kind of disrespect, buddy. It was more of a compliment for davidelmo for studying hard in biology and organic chemistry. I've been toying with the idea of getting a second degree in exercise science which would require me to take classes that cover some of the topics that davidelmo wrote about so I can sound just as educated as he is but I've got so many other things on my plate now. I think knowing the science behind what you're putting into your body is great if you can devote the time to it and you're right, this forum is here for everyone. Not just the educated. I'm a geek by trade so not cracking a bone even being anywhere near weights is probably a feat in itself. Hopefully, we'll both keep asking questions whether they are "moronic" or not. Until then, chill out and peace!

trunksy
04-13-2006, 04:09 AM
:omg: That was so not any kind of disrespect, buddy. It was more of a compliment for davidelmo for studying hard in biology and organic chemistry. I've been toying with the idea of getting a second degree in exercise science which would require me to take classes that cover some of the topics that davidelmo wrote about so I can sound just as educated as he is but I've got so many other things on my plate now. I think knowing the science behind what you're putting into your body is great if you can devote the time to it and you're right, this forum is here for everyone. Not just the educated. I'm a geek by trade so not cracking a bone even being anywhere near weights is probably a feat in itself. Hopefully, we'll both keep asking questions whether they are "moronic" or not. Until then, chill out and peace!

Speaking of biology, does anyone find it totally interesting that they've figured out how to stop and then reverse the process of cell division?

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2006-04/omrf-rpn041006.php
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v440/n7086/pdf/nature04652.pdf

They even have a video of it:

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v440/n7086/extref/nature04652-s6.mov

Davidelmo
04-13-2006, 05:55 AM
:omg: That was so not any kind of disrespect, buddy. It was more of a compliment for davidelmo for studying hard in biology and organic chemistry. I've been toying with the idea of getting a second degree in exercise science which would require me to take classes that cover some of the topics that davidelmo wrote about so I can sound just as educated as he is but I've got so many other things on my plate now. I think knowing the science behind what you're putting into your body is great if you can devote the time to it and you're right, this forum is here for everyone. Not just the educated. I'm a geek by trade so not cracking a bone even being anywhere near weights is probably a feat in itself. Hopefully, we'll both keep asking questions whether they are "moronic" or not. Until then, chill out and peace!

Lol, thanks. I'm 2nd year med student. A bit of that was from memory, but I'd be lying if I said I hadn't checked a few things with my lecture notes. I'm not so hot on the hardcore biochemistry stuff anyway, since we're more patient based. I'm much better at physiology than biochem.

You're right about this forum though. I didn't know 1/2 of what I know about BB'ing until I got here. I had a bit of science knowledge but the best thing is being able to pair the theory I learn in lectures to real life and acheiving my goals.

But, as I'm sure you know, you don't even need the science to be succesful. It might help with small details (meal timing, insulin spiking, casein/whey absorption etc etc) but I'm sure it's not essential. You could still get big by eating lots and lifting heavy.

Davidelmo
04-13-2006, 05:56 AM
^^ And yeah, that's fairly weird that they can reverse cell division.

Jordanbcool
04-13-2006, 08:06 AM
Lol, thanks. I'm 2nd year med student. A bit of that was from memory, but I'd be lying if I said I hadn't checked a few things with my lecture notes. I'm not so hot on the hardcore biochemistry stuff anyway, since we're more patient based. I'm much better at physiology than biochem.

You're right about this forum though. I didn't know 1/2 of what I know about BB'ing until I got here. I had a bit of science knowledge but the best thing is being able to pair the theory I learn in lectures to real life and acheiving my goals.

But, as I'm sure you know, you don't even need the science to be succesful. It might help with small details (meal timing, insulin spiking, casein/whey absorption etc etc) but I'm sure it's not essential. You could still get big by eating lots and lifting heavy.

I agree. I really dont think knowing everything about how cells interact or how the exact biology of every food is really that important. As you said, it makes a difference but its not needed at all to be a successful bodybuilder. Once you get the basics down; bodybuilding isnt all that hard or complicated. You do need to have common sense, and be able to have some basic knowledge. But things like the periodic table. Dont concern me when im busy cutting up chicken breasts or doing negatives on curls.

-jordan

EDIT: To trunsky. Sorry about over-reacting. Its all good.