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KingJustin
04-04-2006, 07:35 PM
I'm trying to decide whether I want to start taking some boxing/martial arts classes, which I recently found out are offered around here...

A little background:
I turn 20 in May. I'm 6'4 and a fairly lean 220+ right now and I am guessing that by the time school ends I should be a little less lean and 230. Once I hit 230, I plan to stay there and just cut up for like the next 10 years, and I think taking martial arts may help. With the exception of when I did karate for a couple years when I was 8, I have absolutely no martial arts background other than some heavy bag work and some messing around with friends.

So, anyway, I want to decide whether I should do one of these sports and if so, which one I should do.

My goals/preference through this would be, roughly in order:
-Improve ability in a real fight
-Improve cardiovascular ****
-Help lose some body fat
-Improve general body control
-I don't want this to mess me up badly with weights
-I have a general preference towards boxing-type stuff over wrestling
-I don't mind pain much at all, but I don't want to do something that will result in going to school/going out with a black eye or broken nose all the time, and I want to avoid any kind of martial arts where the chances of me hurting myself permanently are pretty high

Ok, now that I've rambled on, what should I look at, if anything? Thanks.

Chubrock
04-04-2006, 07:40 PM
Brazilian Jiu Jitsu hands down bro. Your ability to handle yourself on the ground will prove to be a very valuable asset if the situation ever arises. If you grapple hard, you'll def. improve your anaerobic capacity and you def. learn body control. Unless the school does a lot of Vale Tudo stuff, you shouldn't be going to work with a broken nose and **** either.

dubdoob
04-04-2006, 09:07 PM
Try to research to find the best instructor in your area. Don't pick purely based on a style. For me it was Bjj/Muay Thai, it could could be Kung Fu, or TKD for you, who knows. As far as your other goals I'd say they all do the job, standing arts will help more with power, but will work balance. Grappling arts(Judo,Bjj,Sambo) will work more body control and hip thrust power.

In any event, try to find a school that spars A LOT. If they go around doing endless forms all day and little to no sparring than forget it.(i.e. someone has a preorchastrated move and you have a preorhastrated defence)

Magik
04-04-2006, 09:36 PM
Brazilian Jiu Jitsu hands down bro. Your ability to handle yourself on the ground will prove to be a very valuable asset if the situation ever arises. If you grapple hard, you'll def. improve your anaerobic capacity and you def. learn body control. Unless the school does a lot of Vale Tudo stuff, you shouldn't be going to work with a broken nose and **** either.
nah he doesnt prefer wrestling look into Muay Thai not kickboxing preferably from a thai trainer they train you harder core you do more cardio than in almost any other sport and it is one of the best fighting styles out there but be warned if your not at least 6' 0 and you fight in the 230 weight class youd be a super heavyweight fighter (thai people tend to be light so thats why youd be a super heavyweight) and youd go up against tall cut fighters with reach but id say thats definately the way to go if you like it of course

offhegoes03
04-04-2006, 09:58 PM
yeah, if you don't like wrestling, I'd go with muay thai kickboxing. I don't have a ton of experience yet since I just starting going to MMA/muay thai meetings at my school, but it seems really cool so far. I also read something about how all but 3 K1 champions are trained in Muay Thai. I'll have to find out where I read that and I'll post it later. However, it isn't awful to also know how to fight on the ground since any fights that occur in real life are most likely going to end up on the ground eventually and it would be good to know how to handle yourself if that ever came up.

Edit: I'm certain I read something about Muay Thai being the dominant style in the K1 tournaments, but I can't find the link anywhere. Can anyone back this up?

KingJustin
04-04-2006, 11:48 PM
Is there any official Maiy Thai page that shows where they have various instructors at? I can't find any in my area.

Also, I found a place that teaches Jiu-Jitsu. Is this a lot different than Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu?

I really wish some Chuck Liddel disciple had a gym around here or something

Anyway, I live in Wilmington, NC if anyone knows of any crazy directory for this type stuff.

I'm also kind of surprised at how many of you guys say that ground work is so big in real fights. Almost every fight I've watched between people that at least sort of know what they're doing and are at least relatively strong results in one of the guys getting a good shot in the other one's face and that pretty much meaning the fight is over.

Clifford Gillmore
04-05-2006, 05:47 AM
I kick boxed for a while, all I left it with was a strong verticle - and some weak hip flexors.

Chubrock
04-05-2006, 06:52 AM
Damn I didn't even think that you were in Wilmington. I live in Wilimington right now. I take Brazilian Jiu Jitsu from a place that is about an hour from here, if you don't mind a slight drive. We also do a bit of standup as well. Pretty much thai knees, elbows, and things to that nature. PM me, and I can let you know everything about it.

Maki Riddington
04-05-2006, 08:52 AM
I'd pick Judo over BJJ. At least you'll learn how to throw. Have you ever watched a BJJ fight?

Horrible stand up skills for the most part because it's a ground based art.

My pick would be a combo of Judo/Sambo and Muay Thai. Throwing, ground work, striking with knees, elbows arms and legs.

Bob
04-05-2006, 09:03 AM
I've heard from some MMA type friends that Krav Maga training is actually better in a "real" fight.. one reason is because it teaches you the "dirty" stuff... a lot of cops and military organizations also learn it..

I have not done it myself though.. so no personal experience to give you..

KingJustin
04-05-2006, 09:16 AM
I've heard from some MMA type friends that Krav Maga training is actually better in a "real" fight.. one reason is because it teaches you the "dirty" stuff... a lot of cops and military organizations also learn it..
Eh, I don't want to learn to scratch or pull hair or twist someone's nuts.

Anthony
04-05-2006, 09:29 AM
-I have a general preference towards boxing-type stuff over wrestling

Kickboxing, boxing, or Muay Thai.

dubdoob
04-05-2006, 11:18 AM
I've heard from some MMA type friends that Krav Maga training is actually better in a "real" fight.. one reason is because it teaches you the "dirty" stuff... a lot of cops and military organizations also learn it..

I have not done it myself though.. so no personal experience to give you..I've tooken Krav Maga before and came away horribly disspointed. I got a lot more out of straight western boxing then I ever did with Krav. Real world application is just that, how you apply your art, and how ferocious you are in a street fight.

dubdoob
04-05-2006, 11:20 AM
Kickboxing, boxing, or Muay Thai.I agree and disagree. Those are great arts but I think he should search for the best Instructor in his area, not style. For as much as people bash Kung Fu, I'm taking some classes now with a VERY good Sifu where I live, and I've learned a lot more than I did with other styles with poorer instructors.

Anthony
04-05-2006, 12:34 PM
I agree and disagree. Those are great arts but I think he should search for the best Instructor in his area, not style.

I know what you're saying, but I think kickboxing and boxing are popular enough that he won't have trouble finding a good coach.

dw06wu
04-05-2006, 02:40 PM
I have been kinda wanting to learn how to box. Maybe you could try that? It will give you crazy cardiovascular shape.

solid
04-05-2006, 02:49 PM
Kickboxing, boxing, or Muay Thai.

I agree that the quality of the instructor is most important, but in my experience these 3 mesh better with weightlifting.

twcolabear
04-06-2006, 01:40 PM
I don't know if Boxing will work for him, he did say that he doesnt' want to walk away witha black eye.

I do Tae Kwon Do, and I think that is a good option for you too, even better than streight kickboxing. I would also have to agree, that a godo master is better than being Martial Arts specific.
If you have a specific martial arts in kind already, you can also look into some organizations and see which schools are registered with what organizations. Of course, don't just sign up for a scool, go and watch one or more of the classes and see if it is something you like.
When I was looking for a TKD studio for my little brother I looked for a knowledgeble master and that the kids at the studio had respect for him. You might look for number of sparing sessions or something. Good luck

Maki Riddington
04-06-2006, 02:10 PM
I've never really understood how TKD is something that can be applied effectively in a fight. It's a kicking based art. How many times does someone knock another person out with a kick in a fight and what happens if you go to the ground?

Unless you are very well versed at executing kicks then I have a hard time believing TKD would be something that would be functional in a street fight or defending ones self in an attack.

Hazerboy
04-06-2006, 07:38 PM
Just as there is "functional strength" there is also "functional fighting," meaning fighting that carries over well to the real world. I remember seeing a book on this awhile back written by a bouncer. Some of his advice was "avoiding the suckerpunch," "how not to get involved in the first place," "knife fighting," "fighting in groups," etc, but more to the point he said that while there is carryover from traditional martial arts to street fighting (more so for some styles than others) He only needed to learn a few simple/fundamental techniques to be able to defend himself against the average joe.

It makes sense; how often are you really going to see another 5th degree blackbelt or mua thai fighter, or even better, one that wants to fight you? More often than not you're probably going to meet some drunkard who just wants to suckerpunch you.

If I find the book I'll post it.

That being said, try some wrestling man! Sure, you're not going to be able to put someone in a "fireman's carry" or a "half nelson," but I bet at least half of all street fights end up on the ground, and with some wrestling experience it will be very hard to get you on your back. Plus you'll develope good "hips" and balance, and maybe even learn a good throw or two. (nothing looks as badass as throwing someone in a street fight, besides a good roundhouse kick to the face).

Chubrock
04-06-2006, 09:04 PM
I agree with you Maki. I personally don't feel like a kicking based art that doesn't emphasis ground work or many strikes will have much place in a streetfight. I've seen wrestlers shoot in on good strikers so fast you'd think the dude was shot out of a cannon. The ability to fight on the ground, I feel is crucial in surviving chance encounters, though striking should def. be practiced.

Hazer mentioned something about sucker punching, and I def. think that needs to be something that is practiced. Some people feel like suckerpunching and fighting dirty is girly and low down, but I don't give a ****. I'm not going to fight to look like a man, I'm fighting to protect my life, and I'll do what I've gotta do to do that. I also think that many people don't train for the way most fights start. Many people have this preconceived notion that fights start when both are ready, but most don't realize that doesn't happen very often.

Magik
04-06-2006, 09:44 PM
I don't know if Boxing will work for him, he did say that he doesnt' want to walk away witha black eye.

I do Tae Kwon Do, and I think that is a good option for you too, even better than streight kickboxing. I would also have to agree, that a godo master is better than being Martial Arts specific.
If you have a specific martial arts in kind already, you can also look into some organizations and see which schools are registered with what organizations. Of course, don't just sign up for a scool, go and watch one or more of the classes and see if it is something you like.
When I was looking for a TKD studio for my little brother I looked for a knowledgeble master and that the kids at the studio had respect for him. You might look for number of sparing sessions or something. Good luck
TKD is based on self defense and counter attacks ASSUMING your opponent is coordinated enough to hit you where hes supposed too which he wont be. When you do tournaments in TKD there are certain places you cannot hit and therefore its not something that you could rely on in the real world. Muay Thai would help you a lot but I personally would also find a place like kickboxing INC thats in someplace near his city and i hear they teack BJ and JJ as well as muay thai cuz i dont know about where ur from but in CA knees and elbows are considered lethal weapons and even more so if your trained.

Mr. Kool
04-07-2006, 09:38 AM
Anyone know of a Muay Thai school between Buffalo and Rochester NY area, the BJJ school is covered about 25 miles in Lockport, NY called WNYMMA and I'm looking into that, but I don't know of any Muay Thai classes in my area.

solid
04-07-2006, 02:37 PM
Modern sport TKD is all about point sparring and high kicks, but traditional TKD is much more deeply rooted in self-defense and warfare. If you check out some of the traditional forms, like Koryo, you can tell that there is much more behind it than just high kicks.

But that being said, its pretty likely that any school around Wilmington is probably more focused on competition.

twcolabear
04-07-2006, 02:46 PM
traditional TKD is hard to find. I'm not into modern TKD, because I started with a really traditional mater a few years ago. He was probably less than 5ft tall, but he was so fast and good that would be on the floor wondering what happened. If TKD isn't your thing, there is also hapkido, which would be very useful in defense situations, but again that is also hard to find.

solid
04-07-2006, 02:51 PM
I started with a really traditional mater a few years ago.

Do you still train?

twcolabear
04-07-2006, 02:57 PM
yes, but my old master retired and returned to Korea. My new master is a mix between traditional and modern. He's not into competition but if anyone wants to compete they are welcome to do so.

diesel_dan
04-08-2006, 07:07 PM
I didn't read over this whole thread, so I'm not sure if someone already asked, but how well does street fighting carry over into mma? Say a person has been in quit a bit of street fights? Would it help them to carry over to mma? I myself have been in a good bit of street fights (if you want to call them full blown street fights, no weapons just one-on-one bare fist fights). After I learned about mma (about 1 year ago) I bought a lot of mma dvds & books on striking, grappling, wrestling, submissions etc and can say it has helped me a bit in my street fights. I guess you can say I have been into mma for a little, but not properly (no instructor etc). Anyways back to my question, now that I'm wanting to get into mma the "proper" way, would my experience from street fights and what I have taught myself from mma books and dvds help?

Clifford Gillmore
04-09-2006, 12:26 AM
Street fighting? There is only one form of martial art that applies it self just to that purpose, Krav Maga.

diesel_dan
04-09-2006, 12:43 AM
So your telling me that if I wanted to get into proper mma, my fighting experience from the street (street fighting) would only help me if i wanted to get into Krav Maga?

robert_wilson
04-09-2006, 05:38 AM
Dan, what are you doing getting into bar fights at 15?

CrazyK
04-09-2006, 12:56 PM
Street fighting? There is only one form of martial art that applies it self just to that purpose, Krav Maga.Yeah, but it sucks at doing so.

Magik
04-09-2006, 02:54 PM
So your telling me that if I wanted to get into proper mma, my fighting experience from the street (street fighting) would only help me if i wanted to get into Krav Maga?
if ur good enough in any form of fighting u can get into MMA look at Tank Abbot from UFC enogh said :thumbup:

g00dnick
04-09-2006, 03:05 PM
^ and get embarrassed by any decent fighter today...

CrazyK
04-09-2006, 03:12 PM
^ and get embarrassed by any decent fighter today...
He got embarrased by the decent fighters of before. His record was like 8-10, the 8 wins coming from other fighters like him. Fun to watch though.

DokterVet
04-09-2006, 08:52 PM
Tank Abbott showed that a big strong brawler was capable of beating down most traditional martial artists.

Then guys like Vitor Belfort showed that a good MMAist will totally dominate that same big strong brawler.

diesel_dan
04-09-2006, 10:13 PM
Dan, what are you doing getting into bar fights at 15?


Not bar fights. More of an organized thing... Kind of like fight club in a way. That and just a lot of normal fights that are spur of the moment. I think personally that if I was to go into martials arts that the fighting experience I do have would benefit me some what. I mean it would have to as being from the martial arts books and dvds I have learned stuff from helped me in normal fights. So I would think it would work vice versa. I think will power, determination and heart have a lot to do with it as well. Thats not saying someone with no fighting skills can win against someone with well rounded skills... they would most likely get their butt handed to them, but the combination of that and fighting skills is a good advantage. I've been actually thinking about recording some of the fights I get in and posting them. Though most are spur of the moment, when we do setup some organized ones I will see about recording them.

As far as comming into something like ufc and just brawling, I think you would lose. It's always good to be well rounded. Striking is comming back though...
1.) Andre Arvolski (spelling?)
2.) Chuck Lidell
3.) Rich Franklin
4.) Ken Shamrock (in the day, still pretty good though)
Are all some good examples of great fighters that prefer to strike just out of the ufc.
Granted they are all very well rounded.

Magik
04-09-2006, 10:28 PM
Tank Abbott showed that a big strong brawler was capable of beating down most traditional martial artists.

Then guys like Vitor Belfort showed that a good MMAist will totally dominate that same big strong brawler.
ya but regardless if someone says tank abbott everyone knows who he is to get as far as he did by being a straigt street brawler is amazing, but vitor belfort isnt some no name chump or even a good MMAist hes an extremely good fighter

KingJustin
04-09-2006, 11:11 PM
Couple updates.

First, thanks Chubrock for telling me about that place for Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. That's where I was planning on going to train until I happened to come across exactly what I was looking for. There's a gym that I heard about and visited that happens to be about 3 minutes from my house that has straight up MMA classes 3x a week. They teach the important aspects of all the different styles and basically how to use them in a UFC-type fight. I visited the gym and was really excited about it. The "coach" trained with Chuck Norris, Joe Lewis and Pat Militech, earning black belts in a couple of things. The gym kind of makes me think of the way Westside is described (albeit smaller), with everyone looking really serious and not in there to "tone" or "just have fun." I watched a practice and it was pretty intense, but I think I'll be just as strong at least as most all the guys out there, but it seemed like there were some good fighters. I'm going to join in May as soon as school is out, and before then I'm just going to work on getting ready.

I've also been doing a lot of reading on the subject and I've watched a bunch of UFC fights as well. To answer the question about whether or not street fighting would carry over to MMA, I know it definitely will. On a lot of the MMA forums they talk about how in beginner and sometimes intermediate fights, just being really aggressive leads to lots of victories because people aren't skilled enough to counterpunch or anything. But, once you start facing skilled fights, just trying to run in and start swinging (like Tank Abbott) will mean getting crushed every time.

I am surprised that people act like boxing, Muay Tai and MMA wouldn't work well in a street fight. They definitely would. To an extent wrestling might help, too. Learning how to punch hard, move, throw combos, etc is what street fights are all about most of the time.

Also, Rich Frankin isn't really a stand-up fighter. He's really a pure Mixed Martial Artist and is pretty good at everything. And Ken Shamrock definitely isn't a stand up fighter, he's much better as a submission specialist (and he's also not really one of the best UFC fighters anymore, his record is like 8-5, but he's gotten much better and been around since UFC 1).

diesel_dan
04-09-2006, 11:38 PM
I agree about the boxing, wrestling etc helping in street fights. It has helped me. Learning how to be explosive has helped a lot as well. Being aggressive will always help, but like you said against someone skilled it won't help as much being they know how to counter etc. As far as the Rich Franklin and Ken Shamrock being stand up fighters... I heard that straight from Joe Rogan and the other talker on one of the fight nights. They were just talking about Shamrock being one of the fighter where you just went in the ring and brawled. Then went on to say that fighting style died for awhile, but is comming back. Who knows though. I don't think they meant just "stand up", but they would prefer to keep it that way. They are well rounded either way.

Out of curiosity (not sure if you covered it already), how far do you plan to go with mma? Like could you see yourself applying for the Ultimate Fighter, or is this going to just be a hobby? Really I think mma/fighting in general is more of a life style change just like body building. I live for it just like body building. Though if I had to pick one or the other... it would be mma/fighting.

KingJustin
04-09-2006, 11:55 PM
I've watched a bunch of Shamrock's stuff. He's basically a converted submission specialist. He is solid in standup and stuff now, but his strong point is definitely submissions. Look at all how he won all but 1 match:
http://www.ufc.com/index.cfm?fa=fighter.detail&pid=284

I don't really have any idea how far I'll take this. First I'll have to start the classes and see how I do. I think at the least I'll be in better shape for it than most people and if I lack anything it'll be the technical stuff, which hopefully I can catch on to.

diesel_dan
04-10-2006, 12:53 AM
Yeah I agree with you on Shamrock after reading that. I was just going off of what I heard. If anything (say you don't do so good with the techniques etc), your strength should help you. Keep us updated. I myself am thinking about taking some lessons this summer.

robert_wilson
04-10-2006, 01:57 AM
Dan, In my experience most bar fights are over in less than 30 seconds, by the time it would go to the ground there are like 15 people trying to get between you. In that sense i don't think grappling will be too helpful. You're better off looking at how people fight in hockey fights, grab him by the collar with your left arm and keep that elbow up so they cant throw right hands (most people are uncomfortable punching with their left so if you take away their right hand they are done), and then just feed them as many right hands to the head as you can before the bouncers get there.

If you really want to learn something practical I would probably say to go for which ever fighting style emphasizes elbows and knees. alot of times in a fight you wont be able to throw a kick or a punch.

diesel_dan
04-10-2006, 03:57 AM
Dan, In my experience most bar fights are over in less than 30 seconds, by the time it would go to the ground there are like 15 people trying to get between you. In that sense i don't think grappling will be too helpful. You're better off looking at how people fight in hockey fights, grab him by the collar with your left arm and keep that elbow up so they cant throw right hands (most people are uncomfortable punching with their left so if you take away their right hand they are done), and then just feed them as many right hands to the head as you can before the bouncers get there.

If you really want to learn something practical I would probably say to go for which ever fighting style emphasizes elbows and knees. alot of times in a fight you wont be able to throw a kick or a punch.


Yeah, most street fights are over fast. I wasn't asking how to fight or what would be best to fight in a street fight. Just if street fighting experience could help carry over to mma. I don't agree with your concept of fighting. Even if it's a street/bar fight. Though I guess it works for you. Maybe that would work on someone less experienced, but I myself wouldn't allow it to get to the point of someone being able to grab my collar or I would do everything in my ability to stop them from doing so (90% of the time I don't wear a shirt anyways... just with the exception of the occasional sucker punches where I don't have time to take it off). Even if they cannot punch you because you have it blocked, what makes you think they will not try to take you down? Another thing, I guarantee I will be able to throw a kick or punch in a fight if it's my will. You saying most of the time a person won't be able to doesn't even make sense. You even said yourself "just feed them as many right hands to the head as you can before the bouncers get there."? Most street fights do end up on the ground, I myself don't mind that. A lot of the mma books I have read on wrestling have helped me in that aspect. As well as submissions... I myself never thought I would use submissions in a street fight until learning some and actually implying them.

Magik
04-10-2006, 06:10 PM
Yeah, most street fights are over fast. I wasn't asking how to fight or what would be best to fight in a street fight. Just if street fighting experience could help carry over to mma. I don't agree with your concept of fighting. Even if it's a street/bar fight. Though I guess it works for you. Maybe that would work on someone less experienced, but I myself wouldn't allow it to get to the point of someone being able to grab my collar or I would do everything in my ability to stop them from doing so (90% of the time I don't wear a shirt anyways... just with the exception of the occasional sucker punches where I don't have time to take it off). Even if they cannot punch you because you have it blocked, what makes you think they will not try to take you down? Another thing, I guarantee I will be able to throw a kick or punch in a fight if it's my will. You saying most of the time a person won't be able to doesn't even make sense. You even said yourself "just feed them as many right hands to the head as you can before the bouncers get there."? Most street fights do end up on the ground, I myself don't mind that. A lot of the mma books I have read on wrestling have helped me in that aspect. As well as submissions... I myself never thought I would use submissions in a street fight until learning some and actually implying them.

readings only going to take you so far you have to experience a true sparring match/ and or fight with a skilled fighter to know how good that reading will do you make sure you get some hands on experience and think of it as training never take a martial arts class with the intent of using it on the streets, I completely avoid fights at all costs even if someone tries to hit me I just throw them to the floor or hold them or something but I dont fight anymore you kinda make it sound like its something glorious but its not, i once punched a kid in the face at school and knocked 3 of his teeth out and dented his braces and because of my grades and age and the fact that the kid got over it pretty quickly and their insurance covered the damages I got off with suspension thats it, but had i done that now that same leniancy would not have been shown the sheriif would have arrested me and the parents would have pressed charges, try not to fight keep that in the ring.

CrazyK
04-10-2006, 06:27 PM
Student>Teacher>Style

I'll preach this time and again, the effort you put in to what your doing matters most. Second is your instructor, I'd take a good cardio kickboxing instructor over a horrible mma instructor, at least I'll be in shape. Lastly is the style, which is more just about what your personal preference is if you followed the first two guidelines. I prefer bjj/muay thai cross training, with a little bit of kali and arnis once in a while to give me a sense of weapons training. For you it might be different.

Vita
04-21-2006, 06:11 PM
I know what you're saying, but I think kickboxing and boxing are popular enough that he won't have trouble finding a good coach.

i agree. with essentially anything else, it's a crapshoot.

i'd say karate too, if it interested him, but he'll find 20 poor instructors to each good one...

Vita
04-21-2006, 06:17 PM
Striking is comming back though...


it's better matched fights, entertainment brings money and less were entertained by the old school UFC...

KingJustin
04-21-2006, 08:13 PM
it's better matched fights, entertainment brings money and less were entertained by the old school UFC...
Are you suggesting that fighters are now choosing to kickbox instead of get on the mat because they want to sell more tickets?

PredatorX
04-24-2006, 03:11 AM
I'll write a little bit from my perspective, and a few things based on my observations of MMA and martial arts.

The first thing I want to say is that the best martial art, hands down, is run fu. Get some decent pace, and you'll be able to survive most potential fights ;)

The second thing is, personally I dont think that "dirty fighting" is wise or desirable. There are a number of reasons for this. Firstly, legal reasons - if I come out of a fight the winner, but I gouged out the other guy's eye, destroyed a testicle, and bit off his ear, I'm going to be in a lot more trouble than if I choke him unconscious or knock him out with a knee to the face. That's important to me.

Secondly, escalation. Most fights you're likely to get into are with untrained, sometimes drunk idiots whose only move is a wild roundhouse punch. If I try and gouge out this guy's eye, and fail, it does two things - reminds him - teaches him, "hey, that's a viable move", and tells him "Aha, so we're fighting dirty, and it's ok to use such moves". I dont want him to gouge my eye out.

Thirdly, morally. A lot of morons dont know what they're doing, think they're being macho-men by getting into a brawl, because they're immature, drunk or whatever. I'd rather end such a fight with as little harm to him as myself. Even if I hate that arsehole's guts at the time for starting a fight with me, I dont want him to live the rest of his life with the scars of our encounter.

I think it's possible to become an effective fighter, capable of defending yourself as well as anybody, without focusing on "dirty" moves. I think the ebst way to determine how to do this is to look at the closest simulations we have available - two good examples are UFC and Pride.

The most important thing evident from watching these fights is that the best fighters have both standup skills and ground skills. They dont necessarily have to be great in both, but they have to be competent. Someone from a wrestling or ground-fighting background needs to at least be able to defend themselves standing up, to know what to expect from standup fighters, and have a few moves up their sleeve. Someone from a standup background needs to at least learn some decent takedown defence, and know techniques for escaping the mount and preferably have a few submissions up their sleeve.

In my opinion, any of Muay Thai Kickboxing, western Boxing, or Kyokushin Karate are great candidates for standup, and Wrestling, Judo or Brazilian Jiu Jitsu are great for grappling/ground fighting.

One final thing. A lot of people will criticise BJJ or other ground fighting techniques based on the "multiple attackers" scenario. I dont think this criticism is valid. The reason being, if you cannot employ run fu - that is, you absolutely must fight them - no martial art is going to rend you safe in such a situation. Standup or ground fighting, you're ****ed unless you're basically a really, really tough mother****er and they're pathetic.

I've done some Muay Thai, currently doing Boxing (cause it's cheaper :p And I liken it to a golfer working on his putting), and looking to do Judo as soon as I've got the funds.

hooligan_media
06-26-2006, 11:35 PM
I've taken Krav Maga for a year, it's not really "dirty" tactics mostly. That stuff makes up, maybe 10%. Most of it has to do with disarming attackers with weapons- HOWEVER!! After a year of Krav, I punch and kick faster with more power than I ever have in kickboxing/boxing.

If I were going to do MMA on the professional level, I first would focus on my weakest thing, that'd be my grapple game. For that, BJJ/Akido (better) / Muay Thai - then maybe top it off with Krav Maga to focus on really hurting them.

Thats just me.. either way, I like the mention of Sambo.. Don't take kickboxing, in my opinion it just gets you in good shape.

DokterVet
06-26-2006, 11:52 PM
The techniques and training methods of aikido are not comparable to brazilian jiu-jitsu. For groundfighting, you will need brazilian jiu-jitsu, submission wrestling, judo, or sambo, or something similar.

Dinosaur
06-28-2006, 10:07 AM
If you don't like getting black eyes, most serious striking arts won't be up your alley then. I train in Kyokushin Karate, which used to spar bare-knuckle so there was no face punching allowed (kicks and knees were okay though), but now they're bringing back face punching in some of the organizations. Offshoots of Kyokushin though, like Enshin and Ashihara, still have the no-head-punching rule though to my knowledge.