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Mr. D
04-17-2006, 01:43 PM
Currently, I am 164 pounds and about 14%-15% bf. I started about 4 weeks ago at 168 lbs and 15-16% bf.

My ultimate goal is to be 165 lbs and 10% bf. Was it a mistake to start on a cut?Should i have bulked and then went on a cut.

I just dont know if I am going about this the right way.

235orbust
04-17-2006, 01:50 PM
is it really a big deal of 165 and 164? I would suggest cutting to about 7-8% bodyfat then getting on a clean bulk, which should put you at around 166 with about 11-12% body fat,then do whatever to lose that 1%

MJS
04-17-2006, 02:14 PM
is it really a big deal of 165 and 164? I would suggest cutting to about 7-8% bodyfat then getting on a clean bulk, which should put you at around 166 with about 11-12% body fat,then do whatever to lose that 1%

I don't agree with this at all.

First, why are you so concerned about a percentage? Your goal should be to eventually get your bf composition to a level that you are content with. Whether that be increased vascularity, a six-pack or what have you. A number is utterly useless.

Second, are you new to lifting? What is your diet like? If you clean up your diet and go on a bulk and are new to lifting (yes, that's a lot of assumptions) than it is possible, and likely, that by going on a bulk with a clean diet and well thought out routine, that you will gain LBM while losing BF - getting you closer to your "goal" of 165.

Which brings me to my next point. Why on earth is your goal to only weigh 165?

Mr. D
04-17-2006, 02:19 PM
I wouldnt say I am new to lifting.

bf% is a goal because i want to have visible abs. since i started the cut, ive been carb cycling.

why is 165 lbs my goal?maybe its my fear of having waist grow too big and thus rendering all my pants useless.

MJS
04-17-2006, 02:30 PM
bf% is a goal because i want to have visible abs. since i started the cut, ive been carb cycling.

why is 165 lbs my goal?maybe its my fear of having waist grow too big and thus rendering all my pants useless.

Heh. Okay. So, you want to have visible abs. Tell me, what percentage can you start to see abs at? I will tell you the answer. There is no set number. When I was at 15% bf I could see, albeit not great, a six-pack. Six individual muscles at 15% bf.

The last thing that you should worry about is having your waist grow. If you want abs - it should grow if you work them hard. I am 205lb right now and I am not content. I want to be at least 225. I don't plan on my waist growing more than 1".

Mr. D
04-17-2006, 02:40 PM
so you think i should go on a clean bulk?

where is built at these days?!

MJS
04-17-2006, 02:42 PM
Most definitely man! I would be more than willing to help you out with your caloric breakdown / diet / routine or anything else you have questions on. But you have to bulk cleanly. You're here because you want to be big. Eat lean to stay lean. Eat big to get big. So eat big and lean.

Mr. D
04-17-2006, 02:46 PM
built had been helping me since I was starting a cut, but i have began to rethink my approach.

As of now on lifting days (2):
210g of Protein
218g of Carb
70g of Fat

last lifting day and HIIT day:
210g of Protein
175g of Carb
70g of Fat

Rest day:
180g of protein
100g carb
90g Fat

I usually get around 25-40g of fiber a day. Ive been following this diet for a month and dropped about 4 lbs.

I guess my goal is to have a muscular body and allow me to fit in my size 29 waist AG jeans :)

So ditch the cut immediately?Do i need to got o maintence first then bulk or str8 to bulk?

MJS
04-17-2006, 02:52 PM
You don't need a maintenance period, because you aren't trying to maintain you are trying to gain.

Just curious, how tall are you? How old?

Built definitely got you set up on the right track for a cut, but right now that isn't what you want. Click in my signature for my journal. Scroll down to my diet section and have a quick look to see how it all works out. I am on a bulk right now.

What are your maintenance calories? We will need this as a basis for determining your bulking caloric needs.

Also, your routine. What does it look like; lay it out.

Mr. D
04-17-2006, 03:10 PM
5'10.5, Age 26

Maintenence Calories: 2800 or so

Day 1 : HIIT

Day 2: Back/ Biceps:
Deadlift: 2x4-6
Bent Over Rows: 5x5
Preacher Curl: 2x8-12
Zottman Curl: 2x8-12

Day 3: HIIT
Day 4: Chest/Tris
BB Bench Press: 5x5
Incline Fly/Press superset: 3x8
Skull Crusher/Closed Grip superset: 3x8-12

Day 5: Off
Day 6: Legs/Shoulder
Squat: 5x5
Leg Press: 3x8
Clean and Press: 3x4-6
Front/Side Raise superset: 2x8-12
seated DB Press: 2x8-12
Day 7: off

Let me also tell you that I am vegetarian and dont eat eggs either.

I eat cottage cheese, fat free cheese, cream cheese, tofu,boca burgers, whey protein shakes as my sources.

HILL
04-17-2006, 03:24 PM
i would definatly bulk. Dont worry about gaining a bit of fat its inevitable to an extent. If your goal is 165 then thats your goal i would bulk to 180 then come down from their and see how you look feel.. you may get to 180 and think mmmmm i would like to be 180 at 10%

Mr. D
04-17-2006, 03:29 PM
being at 180 with 10% would be more than optimal, i just dont think thats doable naturally.

Mr. D
04-17-2006, 04:01 PM
So i think im gonna start my bulk and go with these numbers:
2 moderate days:
1.5 g pro/ lbm
1.5 g cho/ lbm
0.7 g fat / lbm

2 heavier/lifting days:
1.5 g pro / lbm
1.88g cho / lbm
0.7g fat / lb

3 lower/rest days:
1.2 g pro/ lbm
1.1 g cho / lbm
0.7 g fat / lbm

Does that look about right?

smalls
04-17-2006, 04:32 PM
Heh. Okay. So, you want to have visible abs. Tell me, what percentage can you start to see abs at? I will tell you the answer. There is no set number. When I was at 15% bf I could see, albeit not great, a six-pack. Six individual muscles at 15% bf.

The last thing that you should worry about is having your waist grow. If you want abs - it should grow if you work them hard. I am 205lb right now and I am not content. I want to be at least 225. I don't plan on my waist growing more than 1".

You, my friend, are a god among men. My waist can grow 3-4 inches in a day when bulking simply from undigested food. And I bulk cleaner than most anybody. Gaining 20lbs and only 1 inch on the waist is pretty insane.

Pretty much everything else you stated in this thread I agree with.

MJS
04-17-2006, 05:18 PM
Heh. It's a goal....

Mr. D
04-17-2006, 06:51 PM
so i ran some calculations and even on my heavy days im only get 2800 cals (maintainence levels). I was thinking a 20% increase to 3300 cals.

which would put me at:
Moderate:
247.5g pro
247.5g cho
146g fat

Heavy:
247.5g pro
309.375
146g fat

Light/Off:
247g pro
185g pro
146g fat

Does this look ok to yall for a bulk.

MJS
04-18-2006, 01:30 AM
Looks fine to start with. If you aren't bulking up just add another 300+ cals.

Junin
04-18-2006, 09:12 AM
Are you happy with your leanness at 165?
Are you happy with your muscle size?

I know that at 6' tall, and 165, I am pissed off with how fat I am. I've been as low as 150 recently and still been pissed off with my fat. But I'm also upset to see how small my muscles are. My ideal composition would be 180lbs at 10% bodyfat. Right now, at 165, I am just too fat.

My coworkers ask me why I don't eat or sample any of the pastries at work. I tell them I'm trying to lose weight and they look at me like I'm out of my mind. I have a 30in waist at 165 and I definitely look lean (with clothes on). Keep to your goal!

Mr. D
04-18-2006, 09:54 AM
im gonna go with the bulk and gain muscle, then cut plan. the problem you and i both have is not enough muscle on our body. the only way to gain muscle is to eat, eat and eat.