PDA

View Full Version : I need some help with fruit!



Ricochet1990
04-21-2006, 10:19 PM
Hey guys im relatively new and i was just asking about this... Im read somewhere that fruit is bad for weightlifting because it has fructose (which if i remember correctly gets turned into fat later on)... Can someone tell me if this is true because I absolutely love fruit and I thought that they were a really healthy choice for you!

kad
04-21-2006, 10:52 PM
Fruit is healthy, I've never heard of fructose being turned into fat...

Built
04-21-2006, 11:11 PM
Well, fructose gets metabolized a little differently than other sugars, but the small amount in fresh fruit is hardly going to turn you into a tub. Whole fruit (not juice) is good for you. Eat whatever your calories allow you to.

Ricochet1990
04-21-2006, 11:46 PM
Nah you see thats the problem with me. Since I dont eat chocolate (in order to cut back fat) I try to make up for it with massive ammounts of fruit (and I mean massive)

Built
04-21-2006, 11:48 PM
It's still calories. If it fits your day's calories, you're fine.

Slim Schaedle
04-22-2006, 12:35 AM
Fructose absorption is limited in nearly 60% of normal adults with intestinal distress (symptomatic of malabsorption) frequently showing in ingestion of over 50g.

Also, the thread below is mainly about juice, but since some juice contains high fructose corn syrup, alot of the info on metabolism may be of interest to you.

http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=72469&page=3


Fuctose sucks

PS: fructose metabolism also depletes liver ATP stores pretty darn good.

Slim Schaedle
04-22-2006, 12:43 AM
Fruit is healthy, I've never heard of fructose being turned into fat...
It sure can.

And, at a faster rate than glucose.

Slim Schaedle
04-22-2006, 12:47 AM
It's still calories. If it fits your day's calories, you're fine.
I hate to do this, but I am going to have to correct you.

Slightly.


.....once liver glycogen is full, those fructose molecules have to go somewhere. They can't go to muscle cells. They are "trapped" by the liver.

One could be under caloric requirement, but excess consumption of fructose is going to be converted to fatty acids.

Slim Schaedle
04-22-2006, 12:49 AM
Fructose does alot of other negative things, but after my 4 posts in a row, I think I will hold off for now.

Have a good night all you fruit eaters :)

Built
04-22-2006, 03:18 AM
Slim, I suppose it becomes a problem if you're eating BOATLOADS of fruit. I eat a few pieces a day, but upon re-reading, it sounds like the OP eats BUCKETS of the stuff. Myself, I notice I can't eat a lot of fruit all at once, but if I trickle it in through the day with other foods, I'm fine.

If you don't mind, I'd love some really good references and more on other negative things fructose does (in sufficient quantities, obviously).

Ricochet1990
04-22-2006, 03:29 AM
I got it from this site: http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/13weekstohardcorefatburningdiet.php

And it says:

The first aspect of this diet that I will address, is that it will be completely void of fructose. You will not be allowed to eat fruit throughout its duration. I am not attacking fruit, however, my goal here is to optimize your energy levels in the gym and in order to do this, I want you to focus on foods that promote this vital aspect. You see, if you are able to keep a solid energy level in the gym, you will maintain a higher percentage of muscle mass.

note: fruit has its place in bodybuilding, just not in the particular combination of macronutrients presented in this diet.

Fructose is primarily stored in the liver to be used as energy at a latter date. While it is less likely to be stored in your muscle cells. You only have so many calories to work with, and therefore, will not use them on a macronutrient that does not optimize our muscular energy stores, as we will need them in the gym to maintain our strength and endurance. By following this rule you will also maintain a better pump, even when dieting, than compared to a diet centered around fructose based foods. Therefore, your carbohydrates will be derived from slow burning starchy carbs, and fibrous greens. We will get into more detail over this further along in the article.

brickt.
04-22-2006, 03:37 AM
1-2 apples a day ain't going to make you fat. The main concern would be a diet consisting of fruit, or one that has lots of High Fructose Corn Syrup or Sucrose (glucose + fructose)

Slim Schaedle
04-22-2006, 03:48 AM
Yeah, anyone reading this... make sure you acknowledge the difference bewteen a few pieces and massive amounts, such as the original poster described.



Built, my info came from books/courses, etc. but I can try to look up some studies if I get a chance. I usually don't google this stuff.

Built
04-22-2006, 12:23 PM
Thanks Slim - much obliged.

kad
04-22-2006, 01:04 PM
It sure can.

And, at a faster rate than glucose.
Interesting. Would you care to expand on that a little? (I'm just curious.)

Unreal
04-22-2006, 02:04 PM
Carbs can be converted to fat when you are in a caloric excess. Same with protein. What I think he is trying to say is Fructose is more easily and readily converted to fat since it is stored in the liver, and not muscles, so if your liver is full it gets converted, while other types of sugars will go to fill muscle glycogen stores before getting converted to fat.

kad
04-22-2006, 02:27 PM
Nice post, thanks for clearing that up. I remember reading something about that in the UD2.0 book a while back, but it's been a while.

Slim Schaedle
04-23-2006, 02:27 PM
Interesting. Would you care to expand on that a little? (I'm just curious.)
In a nutshell, the reason being what I pointed out earlier about fructose being phosphorylated in the liver. Going into all the pathways and enzymes will probably just bore you and isn't needed. (unless you want me to)

The same concept applies to galactose (coming from lactose consumption)

Both these can be converted to glucose 6-phosphate and be hydrolzed to free glucose in liver cells, but not muscle cells.

Glucose 6-phosphate can enter the hexomonophosphate shunt (pentose phosphate pathway) to produce fatty acids.

Slim Schaedle
04-23-2006, 02:29 PM
Also, to expand on what I mentioned about frutose eating up liver ATP....this reduces the rate of other biosynthetic processes such as protein sysnthesis.

Built
04-23-2006, 02:58 PM
Slim, please bore me.

:)

Slim Schaedle
04-23-2006, 03:16 PM
Slim, please bore me.

:)
Are you sure?

Built
04-23-2006, 03:19 PM
<yawn>

Ready. :)

ddegroff
04-23-2006, 03:53 PM
ok now i know "exactly" why frutose is bashed.
thanks for the info slim!

Slim Schaedle
04-23-2006, 09:07 PM
<yawn>

Ready. :)
I will get back to you on this. It takes some time to draw out/list everything.

I might just draw a diagram and post it. Probably the easiest to understand.

bigshock
04-23-2006, 09:41 PM
I'm still waiting for you to tell me what your food intake is being that you weigh 60 lbs less than me and eat more food than I do.

Slim Schaedle
04-23-2006, 10:31 PM
I'm still waiting for you to tell me what your food intake is being that you weigh 60 lbs less than me and eat more food than I do.
Check the thread you started. I posted something.

I do have other things going on if my life right now and don't always hop on board to be people's personal comparative analysis sample.

Beef101
04-24-2006, 12:45 AM
I got it from this site: http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/13weekstohardcorefatburningdiet.php

And it says:


Fructose is primarily stored in the liver to be used as energy at a latter date.

ummmm, fructose isnt stored in the liver...

Slim Schaedle
04-24-2006, 05:14 AM
ummmm, fructose isnt stored in the liver...
Have you even read this thread?


An explanation to your comment would be appreciated, considering it contradicts just about everything we posted here.

smalls
04-24-2006, 03:50 PM
I'm looking forward to being bored as well. Tonight that is, after I finish the worst 10 page paper I've ever written (film classes are teh gay)

Also, slim, I'm curious as to how much galactose you feel will begin to cause a problem for someone your size, give or take. I bulk on ungodly amounts of milk and have been debating over minimizing this for my next bulk for this reason. It's going to be a bitch but i'm interested to see if cutting my milk intake in half and replacing those cals with a different protein/carb source will make a difference. I dont feel it will be huge but it should be interesting.

arya202
04-24-2006, 04:56 PM
Protien gets converted to fat if you're in a caloric excess? I never heard about that.

Slim Schaedle
04-24-2006, 05:56 PM
Protien gets converted to fat if you're in a caloric excess? I never heard about that.
Sure thing.




Built and Smalls, hopefully I will get that to you tonight.

Buzzsaw
04-24-2006, 06:33 PM
Fructose does alot of other negative things, but after my 4 posts in a row, I think I will hold off for now.

Have a good night all you fruit eaters :)


Fruit is good for you. Stop with your scare tactics.

Built
04-24-2006, 06:46 PM
No one here said fruit wasn't good for you. But there ARE some distinct problems with excessive fructose consumption.

Slim Schaedle
04-24-2006, 07:57 PM
Fruit is good for you. Stop with your scare tactics.
I will say whatever I want on here, thank you.

That said, I do distinguish between the words "fructose" and "fruit."

Take notice.

Slim Schaedle
04-24-2006, 08:29 PM
Okey dokey....

Going back to absorption into the entrocyte (intestinal cell), fructose uses facilitative transport down a concentration gradient. Glucose transporter, GLUT5, is active as well and does not require insulin.

The following reactions are the different pathways fructose takes after absorption, including metabolic intermediates and enzymes.

Enzymes are listed above the arrow of the reaction.

When you see ATP with a curved line resulting in ADP, that means that reaction required a phosphate. (an energy consuming reaction)

Sometimes you will see ATP forming from ADP. That is an energy yielding reaction.

Pathway 1 - Fructose's entry into the hexosemonophosphate shunt, which is used to produce pentose phosphates used in formation of nucleic acids, other nucleotides, and reduction of cosubstrate NADPH, used for synthesis of fatty acids, maintenance of reducing substrates in red blood cells, and other drug metabolism.

Pathway 2 - Fructose's conversion to (liver) glycogen

Pathway 3 - Fructose entry into glycolysis and then into Kreb's cycle in order to meet enrgey needs of the liver.

Pathway 4 - Galactose entry into glycogenesis (formation of glycogen), OR into the heosemonophosphate shunt, OR entry into glycolysis and Kreb's cycle/

Pathway 5 - Conversion of pyruvate (refer back to glycolysis pathway) to Acetyl CoA. Here's the kicker, Acetyl CoA can enter the Krebs cycle if energy is needed. If not, it is converted to Malonyl CoA and the process of fatty acids synthesis begins.


PS: I started to draw structures, and then I realized how long it was going to take. Plus, I am anal about how they look.

brickt.
04-24-2006, 08:57 PM
words

Wow. I have no idea what you just said, but it was damn impressive, to say the least.

Slim Schaedle
04-24-2006, 09:01 PM
Wow. I have no idea what you just said, but it was damn impressive, to say the least.
Haha.

Every bit of that had to be memorized and drawn out verbatim (with full structures and energy requirements/yields per reaction) for a test a while back.

Built
04-24-2006, 09:36 PM
Slim - you rock my world, and I wanna have your babies.

Just as soon as I wake up.

;)

Seriously, thank you. I'll be studying it when I'm HOME FROM VEGAS 'cause I don't wanna riiiight just now ...

:kiss:

Slim Schaedle
04-24-2006, 09:46 PM
Slim - you rock my world, and I wanna have your babies.

Just as soon as I wake up.

;)

Seriously, thank you. I'll be studying it when I'm HOME FROM VEGAS 'cause I don't wanna riiiight just now ...

:kiss:
Ahhh, Vegas...my home of 1.5 years. Say hello to the nukes at Nellis AFB for me.

smalls
04-24-2006, 09:51 PM
Nice. Thanks for taking the time bro. I had to memorize most of that for a cell bio test. But it was last semester and I bombed the class (lowest grade in college history, lol) So you know I needed a refresher. Good stuff, keep edumacating this place, we need it.

Slim Schaedle
04-24-2006, 09:54 PM
Nice. Thanks for taking the time bro. I had to memorize most of that for a cell bio test. But it was last semester and I bombed the class (lowest grade in college history, lol) So you know I needed a refresher. Good stuff, keep edumacating this place, we need it.
No prob.

It did take some time to draw all that up, but it kept my mind off the test I need to study for, given tomorrow by my 400lb Quantity Foods professor.

A 400lb dietician who teaches Quantity Foods. I guess it makes sense.












She doesn't like me.

Built
04-24-2006, 10:06 PM
How the hell is it that all these "experts" can't apply what they know to themselves? There's a leading-edge carbohydrate researcher - finegood - she can't lose weight either. I don't get it.

RedSpikeyThing
04-24-2006, 10:10 PM
Its reading a post like that makes me wish I wasn't in computer science and psychology.
<hits head on wall>

Built
04-24-2006, 10:11 PM
Tell me about it.
<regrets math degree>

RedSpikeyThing
04-24-2006, 10:15 PM
Sorry to keep this off topic, but math? Wow, I saw you had a BSc and an MSc, but I assumed they were in biology, or some related field.

Built
04-24-2006, 10:24 PM
Math Stats and Operations Research.

ddegroff
04-24-2006, 10:53 PM
great post slim! So if the livers glycogen stores a full fructose goes through pathway 5? so in theory if you ate enough CHO's throughout the day and had a couple pieces of fruit those could possibly be turned into fatty acids.

(just makin sure i understand fully)

Beef101
04-25-2006, 01:38 AM
Have you even read this thread?


An explanation to your comment would be appreciated, considering it contradicts just about everything we posted here.



i was just pointing out the obvious fact that the liver doesnt store fructose it either gets converted to G6P and stored as glycogen or undergoes fatty acid biosynthesis as u said, I cant have everyone going round believing that fructose is stored in the liver, then people would be eating the stuff like it was fruit.

Bruise Brubaker
04-26-2006, 04:09 PM
Very nice post Slim Schaedle.

It's funny how looking at actual views, the first pic was seen 15 times, the second 11 times, and then people got bored.