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ottomanart
04-25-2006, 01:58 AM
Before you all go run’n to check to see if your hunt’n dog is still in the back yard… let me point out that I live in a little town in China and dog ain’t the strangest thing I have eat’n by a long shot!
Anyway, anyone know what nutritional facts for dog meat? :help: I eat it about 3 time a week seeing as I am sure it is a good source of protein… but I am not sure about how it stands up to say… chicken or pork.
I also eat a lot of duck… same thing… do you all know any nutritional facts for duck? I’d be thankful for any help you can give!

mikey4402
04-25-2006, 02:15 AM
Wtf!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

diesel_dan
04-25-2006, 02:34 AM
Good thing your not over here eating dog meat... you wouldn't be around long. We love our dogs, I don't even see how you can do that man. Anyways, don't they supply you with the nutritional facts wherever you get it from?

wheels
04-25-2006, 02:42 AM
you should not flame otto dog cat and hamster are perfectly normal to eat in other countries .

sorry otto i looked for nutritional facts on dog meat but i couldnt find anything for you

for a break down on the duck register for a free account on www.fitday.com
since i didnt know how it was prepared i didnt post the macro's

P.S what does dog taste like im rather curious ?

Mefistofele
04-25-2006, 05:11 AM
They break every bone in the dogs body before killing it because they say it makes the meat taste better. They are very cruel to the dogs. China is a very cruel country.

http://network.bestfriends.org/animalworldusa/news/679.html

http://www.all-creatures.org/anex/dog.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/4651950.stm

http://justnicephotos.homestead.com/DogAndCatCruelFurTrade.html

dissipate
04-25-2006, 05:52 AM
you should really read the articles you post links to.
some people in China may be cruel to dogs, but not everyone is.

--- snip ---
"I want to smash every dog restaurant in the city," she told me, giggling. "But really I don't think it's necessary.

"The dog restaurants are disappearing fast," she said.

"Young Chinese have very different attitudes towards animals, they really love dogs."
--- snip ---

ottomanart
04-25-2006, 07:56 AM
If you are an animal lover, sorry... I don't hang out in the dog market and try to set the wee furry fellas free or anything. Some are treated curly but from what I have seen it's no worse than what we do to live stock in the US. As far as torturing them to death... I have never seen this so I can't comment but from what my Chinese friends tell me it's a quick slit across the neck. We can get into animal ethics later but as far as I am concerned, it's meat, get over it!
I will quote a WWB member "if it doesn't grow or eat something that grows, don't eat it"... well, dogs are just another animal and another source of nutrition! So chow down!!!

"you should not flame otto dog cat and hamster are perfectly normal to eat in other countries...P.S what does dog taste like im rather curious?"
To answer earlier questions (wheels)... dog usually taste like roast beef depending on how it's cooked. Most of the time I have it in a soup with rice noodle. It's usually pretty lean and it taste fine.

Chinese don't eat cats because cats can carry diseases that jump to humans easier (or this is what I have been told). Dogs must be healthier I guess. I also teach young kids and most of them have taken a western view of the situation and decide to stay clear of the Dog meat as a quote form one of those links said. I just go with the cultural flow and eat it if I like it!!!

P.S. When you have to travel 3 hours buy bus to find canned tuna… you find unique and interesting sources of protein to make do with until your next trip to the “big city”.

Will.S
04-25-2006, 10:07 AM
Duck has quite a high fat content, which by no means a bad thing on a bulk, is something you might wish to watch while cutting.

crunkdizzle
04-25-2006, 10:11 AM
Wtf!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


lol thats what i was wonderin, damn dude that aint cool

seK
04-25-2006, 10:15 AM
I couldn't find very much in my short search on this, my bet is that you will probably have a better chance of finding the information you need on a Chinese site. I can't be bothered to translate :(


China is a very cruel country.

Try ordering a burger in India. It's funny how if it's not furry and cute no one cares. The Seal hunt here brought out all the nuts not too long ago actually.

Genacide
04-25-2006, 11:28 AM
I would eat dog - no joke

DoUgL@S
04-25-2006, 11:37 AM
You guys are hilarious. If you are hungry you will eat what is available. If you do not want him eating dog then send him an alternative source of protein.

We are very sheltered in the U.S. and have been taught to love animals, but when you are in a country where you face starvation or even severe hunger everyday you would reconsider your list of things you would not eat.

Do not judge others by the very naive view of the world which you were brought up with.

EDIT:
A quick search lead me here (http://wolf.ok.ac.kr/~annyg/english/e4.htm). 19g P, 20g F, 0g C.

Eszekial
04-25-2006, 02:55 PM
even if i was starving, i'd starve right next to my dog.

I'd rather die then kill my dog to eat it.

Teufelhund
04-25-2006, 03:42 PM
Don't you have any younger siblings you can eat instead?

betastas
04-25-2006, 03:48 PM
even if i was starving, i'd starve right next to my dog.

I'd rather die then kill my dog to eat it.

People do some crazy things when they are starving. Cannabalism comes to mind.

drew
04-25-2006, 03:50 PM
This thread is making me hungry.

For Kibbles 'n' Bits.

Geeper
04-25-2006, 04:16 PM
I LOVE my dog, but I do wonder what dog tastes like after reading this thread. Doesn't mean I'm taking him out in the back yard tonight...... well,.... if he keeps barking I might! SHUT UP OZ! I heard you taste like roast beef. Yum. Roast cow!

getfit
04-25-2006, 04:25 PM
Don't you have any younger siblings you can eat instead?
OMG!:burger:

RedSpikeyThing
04-25-2006, 04:45 PM
I LOVE my dog, but I do wonder what dog tastes like after reading this thread.

I was trying to find the nutritional stats and found out that it tastes very different by breed. Some taste like lamb, pork, kind of gamey (is that word?).

Also, its only strange because the western world regards dogs as companions. If you had a pet pig/cow/duck/etc it would seem strange to eat that animal as well.

Goodwinm
04-25-2006, 04:55 PM
its hard to imagine eating dog. When my little cute Jack Russel (Patch) is lying asleep peacefully in his basket. :(
Awwww.
But hey if thats what you do in china then whatever. But im curious.
I dont suppose you havea pet dog do u? or ever have?

ColorCrimson
04-25-2006, 04:58 PM
The websites that were posted are very graphic and disturbing. As much as i would like to kill those Chinamen i really would be acting as a hypocrite considering i eat about 20 chickens a day. The way they do it is downright awful, but i know we have people here in the U.S. who do the same thing.

I really would like to kill those Chinese guys who do that. I can't blame them though. They are so unphased by it that it is only a job to them. When you are exposed to slaughter everyday of you life you build a tolerance to it. They probably get a lot of amusement out of kicking and beating these dogs literally to death.

Goodwinm
04-25-2006, 05:02 PM
I really would like to kill those Chinese guys who do that. I can't blame them though. They are so unphased by it that it is only a job to them. When you are exposed to slaughter everyday of you life you build a tolerance to it. They probably get a lot of amusement out of kicking and beating these dogs literally to death.Same way that having a pet animal and living with it everyday, caring for it, brings love from you toward that animal. Which is the total opposite of these chinamen.
Its cruel yes. I dont see why the chinamen cant just kill it humanely (if there is a humane way to kill a creature) Im talkin about lethal injections. things that the animals will not feel pain.

Im gonna stop talking now because im still thinking about my Patch in the other room. Im gonna go check on him hehe. Hope no basted chinamen have taken his cute ass away.

kkwik1212
04-25-2006, 05:14 PM
You guys are hilarious. If you are hungry you will eat what is available. If you do not want him eating dog then send him an alternative source of protein.

We are very sheltered in the U.S. and have been taught to love animals, but when you are in a country where you face starvation or even severe hunger everyday you would reconsider your list of things you would not eat.

Do not judge others by the very naive view of the world which you were brought up with.

EDIT:
A quick search lead me here (http://wolf.ok.ac.kr/~annyg/english/e4.htm). 19g P, 20g F, 0g C.
Um, i've never been to China, but since the country is surrounded by water, im assuming fish is readily available and probably pretty inexpensive.

monotone
04-25-2006, 05:22 PM
i dont see how some of the people are comparing dogs to chickens, cows, or other live stock. They dont share any of the same characteristics personality wise and its apples to oranges.


with that being said.... save the dog and drink a damn protien shake

PredatorX
04-25-2006, 05:30 PM
Um, i've never been to China, but since the country is surrounded by water, im assuming fish is readily available and probably pretty inexpensive.

You might want to check a map, China isnt exactly an island. China has 14, 500 kilometers of coast and 22,143 kilometers of land borders.

PredatorX
04-25-2006, 05:32 PM
i dont see how some of the people are comparing dogs to chickens, cows, or other live stock. They dont share any of the same characteristics personality wise and its apples to oranges.

Pigs can be just as intelligent and have just as much personality as dogs can. I never thought I'd hear people from here sounding like the PETA ;)

kkwik1212
04-25-2006, 05:39 PM
You might want to check a map, China isnt exactly an island. China has 14, 500 kilometers of coast and 22,143 kilometers of land borders.
So along those 14,500 kilometers of coast it isn't possible to dock a fishing boat?
Seeing as to how China imports and exports more goods than most other countries in the world-much of which is by boat-im pretty sure they can get they're hands something other than dog.

SkinnySadMan
04-25-2006, 06:08 PM
even if i was starving, i'd starve right next to my dog.

I'd rather die then kill my dog to eat it.

Lol, your dog would eat you first.

dissipate
04-25-2006, 06:20 PM
You guys are hilarious. If you are hungry you will eat what is available. If you do not want him eating dog then send him an alternative source of protein.

We are very sheltered in the U.S. and have been taught to love animals, but when you are in a country where you face starvation or even severe hunger everyday you would reconsider your list of things you would not eat.

Do not judge others by the very naive view of the world which you were brought up with.

great post doug. for the poor people in china (from my travels at least), our meals of chicken, fish, beef would be a dream come true. they are so poor they can't afford meat and eat mostly man tou (bread) and drink water.


Um, i've never been to China, but since the country is surrounded by water, im assuming fish is readily available and probably pretty inexpensive.
fresh fish is usually expensive.. the further inland you go, the more expensive it gets.

diesel_dan
04-25-2006, 06:25 PM
Whatever happened to the dog being a mans best friend? I wouldn't eat my best friend. Now we know what "really" happened to lassie.

Anyways I don't have any right to say they cannot do it. Like already said, it isn't any different than what we do to other animals. I guess just having loved dogs all my life it bothers me.

RedSpikeyThing
04-25-2006, 07:21 PM
I guess just having loved dogs all my life it bothers me.

That is precisely why everyone raised in a culture where having a pet dog is normal finds eating dog disgusting.



Its cruel yes. I dont see why the chinamen cant just kill it humanely (if there is a humane way to kill a creature) Im talkin about lethal injections. things that the animals will not feel pain.

Two things:
1) I don't think they kill the animals we eat by lethal injection...I think it is something slightly more "cruel" than that.

2) Think about that for a second: lets kill the animal we are about to eat by filling it up with a lethal chemical. :scratch:

betastas
04-25-2006, 07:29 PM
In most cases, it seems that the most effecient way is also the most humane. My friend's mom worked in a Schnieder's slaughterhouse on the killing floor. They used this device that went up to the cows head, and forced a steel bolt through its brain. Very quick, and very effecient. I think that China gets a bad rap on a lot of things that aren't universal. Why would a peasant break all the bones in a dog's body? You have any idea how difficult it is to remove meat from shattered bone? The average farmer butchers their own animal the same way a farmer in other parts of the world would. The actions of a few people and groups though cannot speak for the whole.

In Europe, horsemeat is quite common. Anyone try that yet?

wheels
04-25-2006, 07:43 PM
In most cases, it seems that the most effecient way is also the most humane. My friend's mom worked in a Schnieder's slaughterhouse on the killing floor. They used this device that went up to the cows head, and forced a steel bolt through its brain. Very quick, and very effecient. I think that China gets a bad rap on a lot of things that aren't universal. Why would a peasant break all the bones in a dog's body? You have any idea how difficult it is to remove meat from shattered bone? The average farmer butchers their own animal the same way a farmer in other parts of the world would. The actions of a few people and groups though cannot speak for the whole.

In Europe, horsemeat is quite common. Anyone try that yet?

ya umm i doubt they crush the bone it makes it extremely hard to properly extract any useable meat

I WANT to try horse and bunny meat also yum

ColorCrimson
04-25-2006, 07:45 PM
Even if some people have been exposed to animal slaughter their whole lives i still have a hard time understanding why they wouldn't have any trouble torturing an animal regardless of its species. China isn't the only place that does this either. Every country that has animals has animal cruelty. I'm glad i don't ever see it happening because that is one situation where i actually think i could kill another person.

ottomanart
04-25-2006, 08:04 PM
With out the ethics of it, is eating dog really that disgusting? I mean here in China we also eat pig… and I mean that whole thing… everything but the ‘oink’ (and maybe a few bones). Go out and boils a pig brain in a nice soup sometime and let me know what you think. Or try the congealed blood that looks like red/black tofu. At least with dogs they only eat the meat.
As I said in an earlier post, from what I have seen/hear it’s a quick slice across the through. I am sure it’s painful (since when is dieing anywhere but your bed NOT painful). At least a sliced neck is quick.
For those of you making jokes about cannibalism… you ever seen the movie ALIVE about the rugby team that crashed a plain in the mountains and live for 4 months by eating the dead people? WE HUMANS DO WHAT WE NEED TO STAY ALIVE!!! My Chinese teacher ate a lether belt to stay alive during the cultural revolution... I suppose if I was starving, my boots may become a comfort food.

I am not saying I am starving or anything but hey… protein is protein. Dog is cheaper than fish (I am way in land China) and safer than Chicken (bird flu and what not). So it’s a pretty good reason to sit down and eat some Dog!

Sidior
04-26-2006, 01:58 AM
So along those 14,500 kilometers of coast it isn't possible to dock a fishing boat?
Seeing as to how China imports and exports more goods than most other countries in the world-much of which is by boat-im pretty sure they can get they're hands something other than dog.

Even if you could eat something else why bother? I would try eating dog if it was offered to me.

toki
04-26-2006, 02:30 AM
save only the cute animals! duh!

Focused70
04-26-2006, 08:55 AM
Quite a few people on this thread need to wake up to the fact that there are some concepts in the world that don't fit their view of the way things should be.

Eating dog is perfectly normal, just like horsemeat (Europe, France specifically) is normal. The dogs that are raised for food aren't the same as those that are domesticated. Ever hear of a wild dog? No, I didn't think so.

Get over it, people.

Teufelhund
04-26-2006, 09:17 AM
I'd agree with everything you said Stash, except the "they're not the same" part. Those dogs are exactly the same as pet dogs, only their lives have been ones of much more misery than your standard dog. They are domesticated dogs, just like Fido back home. That does not mean they're tame and would make good pets, after being raised packed like bales of hay in those cages.

All that said, food is food. I'm all for eating whatever you want, as long as its not endangered or human. It should be humane though.

Focused70
04-26-2006, 09:28 AM
Humane? lol.

I think its a question of superimposing a very Western style belief system on a culture that does things a little differently. Like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. It's quite painful for both the peg and the hole. ;)

TheLittleGuy
04-26-2006, 09:40 AM
In Europe, horsemeat is quite common. Anyone try that yet?

I'm not sure it's that common. I've only ever seen it sold in France and Switzerland, and consumption in those countries makes up about 2% of the overall meat consumption there. Still, that's quite a few horseburgers.

I've eaten horse many times, although it's no longer significantly cheaper than beef (which was the traditional reason for eating it). It tastes like beef, but it's slightly tougher and has less fat -- very much like ostrich, in fact.

Before you get too high-and-mighty about the food industry in China, particularly the way they slaughter their animals, you might be interested to learn a little bit more about the way your food is produced closer to home. Fast Food Nation (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060938455/sr=8-1/qid=1146065884/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-9685995-0158525?%5Fencoding=UTF8) discusses the US meat-producing industry in quite some detail -- you'll think twice about food you eat after reading it, I assure you!

Here's what one reviewer said (which is right on the money, IMO):


It was an eye opening book. Who knew that due to the meat industry being run just by a few corporations, essentially we are eating the same meat from the same feedlots and slaughter houses whether we buy it at a fast food chain or the local supermarket, and perhaps even the nicer restaurants. I also found some of the content appalling. Cattle are fed cats, dogs, other cows, even old newspaper! If this doesn't outrage you enough, just wait to you get to how these same meat conglomerates treat the low paid, low skilled employees of the slaughterhouses.

:soapbox:

TheLittleGuy
04-26-2006, 09:42 AM
you should not flame otto dog cat and hamster are perfectly normal to eat in other countries.

Can you imagine how many hamsters you'd have to eat during a bulking cycle? :eek:

Teufelhund
04-26-2006, 09:42 AM
Humane? lol.

I think its a question of superimposing a very Western style belief system on a culture that does things a little differently. Like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. It's quite painful for both the peg and the hole. ;)


uh... lol.

Its not just because they're dogs. No animal should be abused in such a way. And no hole for that matter.

Except chickens of course. they deserve to be eaten, the filthy nasty things... everywhere they go they leave feathers glued down by excrement. yuck.

Jorge Sanchez
04-26-2006, 09:43 AM
Same way that having a pet animal and living with it everyday, caring for it, brings love from you toward that animal. Which is the total opposite of these chinamen.
Its cruel yes. I dont see why the chinamen cant just kill it humanely (if there is a humane way to kill a creature) Im talkin about lethal injections. things that the animals will not feel pain.

Im gonna stop talking now because im still thinking about my Patch in the other room. Im gonna go check on him hehe. Hope no basted chinamen have taken his cute ass away.

I think the fact that you refer to people in China as "Chinaman" is hilarious, and frankly a little bit ignorant/racist.

But who cares if he eats dog? I'd probably try it at least once - more if it tasted good.

DoUgL@S
04-26-2006, 09:58 AM
You guys eat chicken? Eww! I would never eat my pet chicken. ;)

My pot belly pig? get away you animal. It's not the other white meat, it's my friend.

How dare you eat Bessy! Try something else, like fido maybe.

Lol @ this thread. Some cultures revere and worship cows, I am sure they think we are the cruel thoughtless ones. American slaughter houses treat their animals much worse than the instances discussed in this thread.

Would you feel better if the Dog meat was organic and had been treated better. would that make it ok? Like free range dog maybe, feed only the best kibble, no hormones or antibiotics. We, Americans, as a culture are closed minded

Focused70
04-26-2006, 10:11 AM
Its not just because they're dogs. No animal should be abused in such a way. And no hole for that matter.

where you see abuse, they see food. its a question of belief and value systems.

China is a country with over one billion people, 25% of the world's population. I don't think they're about to change their cultural practices anytime soon.

Teufelhund
04-26-2006, 10:19 AM
There is a small amount of respect and dignity that every living creature is due, regardless of whether it is ultimately to be eaten. I don't advocate some kind of utopian garden-of-eden like society where animals live in perfect contentment until they are chosen to go to "the island"... But... you don't have to pack dogs 3 deep in a crate where they are defecating all over their cagemates while they watch each other get slaughtered. Look at the pics on the web sites posted above. The text in them is ridiculous (peta BS), but... damn. The images of crates of dogs literally packed like the stuffed animal bin at FAO Schwartz - legs and muzzles and tails poking out of the bars at every angle, or the images of them laying on the ground at market with all of their legs disjointed and bound behind their backs... its totally undue torture and cruelty.

Teufelhund
04-26-2006, 10:28 AM
Chinese demographics do not concern me. I don't expect anyone to change. I recognize that these people are living an incredibly meager existance, and that the perceptions and experiences of a livestock animal are the least of their worries.

However, I still think it is clearly wrong to prolong slaughter like that.

Teufelhund
04-26-2006, 10:30 AM
exactly how do you get a dog's legs to flip backwards over its back anyway...

Focused70
04-26-2006, 10:35 AM
There is a small amount of respect and dignity that every living creature is due, regardless of whether it is ultimately to be eaten. I don't advocate some kind of utopian garden-of-eden like society where animals live in perfect contentment until they are chosen to go to "the island"... But... you don't have to pack dogs 3 deep in a crate where they are defecating all over their cagemates while they watch each other get slaughtered. Look at the pics on the web sites posted above. The text in them is ridiculous (peta BS), but... damn. The images of crates of dogs literally packed like the stuffed animal bin at FAO Schwartz - legs and muzzles and tails poking out of the bars at every angle, or the images of them laying on the ground at market with all of their legs disjointed and bound behind their backs... its totally undue torture and cruelty.

yes, and in our society that would not stand. in our culture, that would be quite heinous.

but it's not. its perfectly ok to say this is abuse in our comfort zone. we're the outsiders looking in.

DoUgL@S
04-26-2006, 10:35 AM
There is a small amount of respect and dignity that every living creature is due, regardless of whether it is ultimately to be eaten.

I respect your opinion whether or not I agree with it.


But... you don't have to pack dogs 3 deep in a crate where they are defecating all over their cagemates while they watch each other get slaughtered. Look at the pics on the web sites posted above. The text in them is ridiculous (peta BS), but... damn. The images of crates of dogs literally packed like the stuffed animal bin at FAO Schwartz - legs and muzzles and tails poking out of the bars at every angle, or the images of them laying on the ground at market with all of their legs disjointed and bound behind their backs... its totally undue torture and cruelty.

Aren't these pics just as bad?
http://members.fortunecity.com/ricardo005/Ricardo4you/id5.html
http://www.veganoutreach.org/whyvegan/slaughterhouses.html

Focused70
04-26-2006, 10:44 AM
Exactly DM.

Some of you need to recognize propaganda for what it is.

Guido
04-26-2006, 10:46 AM
I always threaten my Chihuahua when he's bad that we're going to have Chihuahua Chops for dinner. It wouldn't be much meat, though, so I reconsider.

Teufelhund
04-26-2006, 10:47 AM
I respect your opinion whether or not I agree with it.



Aren't these pics just as bad?
http://members.fortunecity.com/ricardo005/Ricardo4you/id5.html
http://www.veganoutreach.org/whyvegan/slaughterhouses.html
LOL, these animals are brought to slaughter quickly and efficiently. Don't make me out to be some PETA nut.

Focused70
04-26-2006, 10:55 AM
Is a PETA nut different from being a peanut? :p

RickTheDestroyer
04-26-2006, 11:15 AM
I wouldn't eat dog, but I don't really see the difference between that and eating cows/pigs/etc., although I am a little more repulsed by the idea due to my cultural upbringing.
I'd probably eat people though, if I had to in order to live. Then again, if I had to eat any of it in order to live I'd do it without a second thought.
I'm considerably more disgusted by the treatment prior to slaughter and the method of slaughter than I am by the actual consumption of animals.
And frankly, cultural relativism can suck my damn ****. Torture is torture regardless of where you are.

DoUgL@S
04-26-2006, 11:28 AM
LOL, these animals are brought to slaughter quickly and efficiently. Don't make me out to be some PETA nut.

I am sure if the Chinese dog slaughtering public had our equipment for processing meat the process would be just as quick and efficient, as it is in the states.

Not my intention peanut. ;) I know that you are a levelheaded guy.


And frankly, cultural relativism can suck my damn ****. Torture is torture regardless of where you are.

Ergo it's torture here in the states too. The way we raise, and slaughter our livestock right here in the good old US of A is not significanly less cruel. Disclaimer: Free-range or organically raised livestock not included.

RickTheDestroyer
04-26-2006, 11:40 AM
Ergo it's torture here in the states too. The way we raise, and slaughter our livestock right here in the good old US of A is not significanly less cruel. Disclaimer: Free-range or organically raised livestock not included.

Yup, pretty much.

hooligan_media
04-26-2006, 11:49 AM
You gotta be kiddin me.....these days i thought the dog meat thing was a stereotype, but sheeeeeeeeeeeeettt....dang son, doggies?

Wowza?

Narcissus
04-26-2006, 11:55 AM
Um, i've never been to China, but since the country is surrounded by water, im assuming fish is readily available and probably pretty inexpensive.

i totally didn't realize until i googled a map of china that it was surrounded by water ...
http://show.imagehosting.us/show/1325224/0/nouser_1325/T0_-1_1325224.JPG


You might want to check a map, China isnt exactly an island.

see above ... now don't you feel foolish!


god i'm bored and my head hurts. why isn't there a smiley who's putting a revolver in his mouth?

Teufelhund
04-26-2006, 12:03 PM
lol, he called me peanut... *blush*

never bought organic meat in my life... I'm afraid I'll miss out on all the growth hormones.

TheLittleGuy
04-26-2006, 12:06 PM
But... you don't have to pack dogs 3 deep in a crate where they are defecating all over their cagemates while they watch each other get slaughtered. Look at the pics on the web sites posted above.

These inhumane practices are not limited to the Chinese food chain. You would be shocked at the conditions in which we keep animals. Squeamish WBBers should look away now:

Battery chickens:

Battery cages 1 (http://www.animalactivism.org/documents/photos/med_19672_battery-cages4.jpg)

Battery cages 2 (http://www.animalactivism.org//documents/photos/large_62617_battery-faeces.jpg)

Yes, that is faeces piled up at the bottom of the cages. Chickens routinely sit in their own crap all day long. Yummm.

Sow stalls:

Pigs in stalls (http://www.animalactivism.org//documents/photos/large_23396_2pigs_gatton.jpg)

Veal stalls:

Veal calves in stalls (http://www.hsus.org/web-files/Cow/281x144_veal_calves_in_stall.jpg)

My point is this -- I lived on a farm for a year and understand a fair amount about raising livestock. It is possible to do it humanely, but constant pressure from the consumer and the supermarkets for cheap meat means that most animals are raised in attrocious conditions.

You may not realise it at the supermarket, packed in neat cellophane and green plastic, but your meat is probably raised in conditions similar to those shown above.

I'm not saying that it's right or wrong. I'm neither an animal activist nor a vegetarian -- in fact, I'm a keen hunter and like to support my local farmers by buying local, free-range meat.

I'm just saying that we shouldn't pretend that we hold the moral high ground on animal cruelty, because we don't.

:soapbox:

Edited to remove embedded images and replace with links -- although I think that every meat-eater should see the pictures and understand how their food is produced, I realise that many prefer to adopt an "ignorance is bliss" attitude to their diet.

RickTheDestroyer
04-26-2006, 12:44 PM
These inhumane practices are not limited to the Chinese food chain. You would be shocked at the conditions in which we keep animals. Squeamish WBBers should look away now:


Actually, you might just want to post links next time, although these pics aren't particularly bad considering the subject matter- this is the sort of thing that should probably be handled delicately so that people can actually choose if they care to look or not instead of just having to scroll by quickly.

I do agree with your points, however.

Goodwinm
04-26-2006, 04:02 PM
I think the fact that you refer to people in China as "Chinaman" is hilarious, and frankly a little bit ignorant/racist.

Sorry, i should be more polite.
i should say. The male people in China are "Chinamen"
and the female people in China are "Chinawomen"

:rolleyes:

Goodwinm
04-26-2006, 04:09 PM
That is precisely why everyone raised in a culture where having a pet dog is normal finds eating dog disgusting.



Two things:
1) I don't think they kill the animals we eat by lethal injection...I think it is something slightly more "cruel" than that.

2) Think about that for a second: lets kill the animal we are about to eat by filling it up with a lethal chemical. :scratch:
OK, not lethal injection but you know. Some kind of pill so that it wont feel as much pain or whatever. (and that wont poison us when we eat it)
But i cant hold the moral high ground because i couldnt give two ****s about a Chickens neck being snapped for it to be used in my chicken fillet bargain bucket at KFC. Nor a cow being savagely slayne for my tasty bacon. But oh well. Like my Sig says.
Im a post modern vegetarian. I eat meat, ironically.
No matter how the naimal has been slayed to get its bacon, pork, beef etc. I dont care.
How ironic lol.
But doing that to dogs i am all against. Funny isnt it?
hahahaha

DoUgL@S
04-26-2006, 04:39 PM
Nor a cow being savagely slayne for my tasty bacon. But oh well.

But doing that to dogs i am all against. Funny isnt it?
hahahaha

Does cow bacon taste good?

Not funny, just naive.

BTW calling some one a Chinaman is not the same as me calling you an Englishman, its considered offensive.

Ironman15
04-26-2006, 04:47 PM
MMM...I love me some cow bacon. But if I were not a poor college student I would buy only free-range animal meat. But not having much money is the same reason people all over the world, particularly people in poor countries end up eating what they can afford however the food is processed. I'm sure there are lots of people that hate the fact of how animals are treated and killed but they also realize they can't do much about it, and they can't afford much better so they're stuck settling for meat like :spam:

PredatorX
04-26-2006, 05:28 PM
i totally didn't realize until i googled a map of china that it was surrounded by water ...
http://show.imagehosting.us/show/1325224/0/nouser_1325/T0_-1_1325224.JPG
see above ... now don't you feel foolish!

:p

On the topic of foods we're not used to due to our culture etc, I've always been interested in insects. I'm not sure what the protein content of grasshopper is, but I'm sure it wouldnt be bad.

I just found this, which I thought was very interesting:

http://www.thaibugs.com/Articles/beetleaday.htm


''In terms of nutritional content and simple cost-effectiveness it would be much more sensible to raise bugs than cattle,'' he says (not without a smile). ''It takes a lot of fodder, a large field and great effort to raise a single cow. Since insects eat little, don't require much space and breed so rapidly, it would cost a lot less to produce the same amount of protein.''


Now a qualified nutritionist, Sanga has been able to prove that the nutritional value of insects compares well with that of more conventional foodstuffs. For instance, 100 grammes of dried insects contains 37 to 60 grammes of protein, and four to 33 grammes of fat. This, he says, is exactly the same amount of protein and fat found in 100 grammes of dried pork. Furthermore, some insects contain the same amount of calcium and phosphorus as a duck egg.

I have eaten Kangaroo sausages. I cant say they were anything particularly special, except for the novelty factor.

Mefistofele
04-26-2006, 08:00 PM
I'm considerably more disgusted by the treatment prior to slaughter and the method of slaughter than I am by the actual consumption of animals.
And frankly, cultural relativism can suck my damn ****. Torture is torture regardless of where you are.-DenimDeomn


There is a small amount of respect and dignity that every living creature is due, regardless of whether it is ultimately to be eaten.-Teufelhund
I agee 100% with these guys.


BTW calling some one a Chinaman is not the same as me calling you an Englishman, its considered offensive.-douglasmolina
Wrong. Some people conveniently attach offense where there is none in an effort to garner sympathy and outrage. The fact is Chinaman like Englishman is as legitimate as Frenchman, unless you think a man from China should feel shame and thus would want to hide his country of origin. I wonder if you think "Gringo" is offensive.

China has its good points, but the value they put on life, Animal and Human, is severely lacking.

I think dogs and man share a special bond that should preclude dogs from being used for food except under life and death situations. I kinda feel that way about all Mammals to be honest.

That bug thing was very interesting. If that includes Lobster sign me up.

I hate killing things.

Antonious
04-26-2006, 08:18 PM
How long is a chinaman.

Focused70
04-26-2006, 08:24 PM
BTW calling some one a Chinaman is not the same as me calling you an Englishman, its considered offensive.

too much effort to get all hot and bothered by someone who chooses to remain ignorant. :rolleyes:

monotone
04-26-2006, 08:41 PM
too much effort to get all hot and bothered by someone who chooses to remain ignorant. :rolleyes:


on that note... im in the south and you said its normal to eat "coon". **** no it is not acceptable, you would be exiled around here if anyone knew you ate a raccoon. Thats a stereotype, therefore also ignorant.

Focused70
04-26-2006, 09:12 PM
Then I stand corrected. I didn't know about it being considered offensive. I have a good friend who lived in NOLA (though he now lives in northern LA because of Katrina, who has eaten raccoon and possum (and other things like deep fried caterpillars -- supposedly they taste like french fries), and afaik he hasn't been exiled yet). I'm not afraid to admit when I've made a mistake (and to retract it), which is more than I can say with respect to others on this thread. :rolleyes:

monotone
04-26-2006, 09:27 PM
Then I stand corrected. I didn't know about it being considered offensive. I have a good friend who lived in NOLA (though he now lives in northern LA because of Katrina, who has eaten raccoon and possum (and other things like deep fried caterpillars, but let's not go there), and afaik he hasn't been exiled yet. I'm not afraid to admit when I've made a mistake (and to retract it), which is more than I can say with respect to others on this thread. :rolleyes:


oh i respect your attitude, and i dont want to even sound like im busting your balls on it (i dont even consider myself southern for one) but i was just pointing out that "roadkill eaters" is a stereotype for southerners.

Teufelhund
04-26-2006, 10:05 PM
I have a good friend who lived in NOLA (though he now lives in northern LA because of Katrina, who has eaten raccoon and possum (and other things like deep fried caterpillars -- supposedly they taste like french fries), and afaik he hasn't been exiled yet).

God exiled him. Thats why he sent Katrina. To punish all the evil possacooterpillar eaters. Falwell had it all wrong.

monotone
04-26-2006, 10:08 PM
God exiled him. Thats why he sent Katrina. To punish all the evil possacooterpillar eaters. Falwell had it all wrong.
:nod:

DoUgL@S
04-27-2006, 09:55 AM
I Wrong. Some people conveniently attach offense where there is none in an effort to garner sympathy and outrage. The fact is Chinaman like Englishman is as legitimate as Frenchman, unless you think a man from China should feel shame and thus would want to hide his country of origin. I wonder if you think "Gringo" is offensive.

Shows your ignorance. If you want to make a fair comparison, English man, French man, and German man would be the equivalent of Chinese man NOT Chinaman.

I have never refered to a white man as a gringo, so I would have to ask the person to whom I would refer as such whether or not it offended him before I can make any judgement on it.

Is calling someone a beaner offensive? How about the "N" word? Or cracker? These labels may not be offensive among friends of the race being ridiculed, but let someone outside the circle use it especially if he or she is from a different race and all hell will break loose. So please explain your point about the gringo comment because I am not sure what you are getting at.

Goodwinm
04-27-2006, 11:52 AM
Shows your ignorance. If you want to make a fair comparison, English man, French man, and German man would be the equivalent of Chinese man NOT Chinaman.

I have never refered to a white man as a gringo, so I would have to ask the person to whom I would refer as such whether or not it offended him before I can make any judgement on it.

Is calling someone a beaner offensive? How about the "N" word? Or cracker? These labels may not be offensive among friends of the race being ridiculed, but let someone outside the circle use it especially if he or she is from a different race and all hell will break loose. So please explain your point about the gringo comment because I am not sure what you are getting at.
ok then. How about this?

Chinaman/Chineseman
Englandman/Englishman
Franceman/Frenchman

TheLittleGuy
04-27-2006, 12:09 PM
http://www.answers.com/topic/chinaman


Chinaman: offensive terms for a person of Chinese descent
Synonym: chink

It isn't the same as Englishman or Frenchman (which aren't offensive to anyone).

You can debate it until you're blue in the face, but the term has stigma attached. That's just the way it is.

method115
04-27-2006, 01:15 PM
Doesn't the US throw mass amounts of dogs into a furnace when they go to a dog pound after like 2 weeks? Anyways at least the chinese actually use the animal. I don't know thier are alot of poeple starving out thier in this world I'm sure tons of them would love some dog meat that I'm sure america could provide plenty of. Actually that would be a good way to feed thousands of people the dogs are gonna be burned alive anyways why not just feed them to the hungry.

Antonious
04-27-2006, 04:01 PM
How long is his name.

Mefistofele
04-27-2006, 07:32 PM
People like douglasmolina who are so easily offended on the behalf of others, do it for show. They do it to get themselves 'elected', not over any real interest in making things better. The flip side of people like that is abusive behavior and perverted tendices, carried out behind closed doors. Stalking ex-girlfriends, beating pets, rape/bondage porn, that kind of stuff. I know his type. He can just as easily rationalize the worst in people as he can play their 'great defender'.


It isn't the same as Englishman or Frenchman (which aren't offensive to anyone).

You can debate it until you're blue in the face, but the term has stigma attached. That's just the way it is. -theLittleguy

Everything can carry some kind of stigma if you know how to work the system.

What I wonder is who cares? Why treat the Chinese with kid gloves? People come down on the U.S. and England so easily but want to protect the Chinese. Give me a break. They have been brutal, and will continue to be brutal. Just look at Tibet as one example; but no, good ole douglasmolina will come to the rescue of Chicom. He says "Dont hurt their feelings, their not heavy, their my stage prop."

Vote doug, the peoples choice. Now pass me that plate of dog.

Goodwinm
04-28-2006, 03:03 AM
People like douglasmolina who are so easily offended on the behalf of others, do it for show. They do it to get themselves 'elected', not over any real interest in making things better. The flip side of people like that is abusive behavior and perverted tendices, carried out behind closed doors. Stalking ex-girlfriends, beating pets, rape/bondage porn, that kind of stuff. I know his type. He can just as easily rationalize the worst in people as he can play their 'great defender'.



Everything can carry some kind of stigma if you know how to work the system.

What I wonder is who cares? Why treat the Chinese with kid gloves? People come down on the U.S. and England so easily but want to protect the Chinese. Give me a break. They have been brutal, and will continue to be brutal. Just look at Tibet as one example; but no, good ole douglasmolina will come to the rescue of Chicom. He says "Dont hurt their feelings, their not heavy, their my stage prop."

Vote doug, the peoples choice. Now pass me that plate of dog.
ah men!

ClubberLang
04-28-2006, 11:59 AM
LOL..
I thought that this thread was going to be about the nutritional profile of DOG FOOD not about actually eating dog.

Given that I say chow down on the doggie. I fail to see how anyone other than a vegetarian could be opposed to this without being a hypocrit*sp.

DoUgL@S
04-28-2006, 12:08 PM
People like douglasmolina who are so easily offended on the behalf of others, do it for show. They do it to get themselves 'elected', not over any real interest in making things better. The flip side of people like that is abusive behavior and perverted tendices, carried out behind closed doors. Stalking ex-girlfriends, beating pets, rape/bondage porn, that kind of stuff. I know his type. He can just as easily rationalize the worst in people as he can play their 'great defender'.


First of you do not know me at all. If you are lumping me with mentally disturbed individuals directly or inderectly, your attempt at an insult is not appreciated, but will be ignored because apparently you cannot have an intelligent discussion without reverting to slinging insults.

All I did was point out a naive point of view that could be construed as biggoted and/or racist. These type of statements make the author look ignorant. I am not offended my your comments because frankly your opinion does not matter to me.

If trying to show you that in a forum in which the majority of the population resides in the US where comments with any sort of racial overtone can get you flamed is wrong, then I stand corrected.

ectx
04-28-2006, 03:15 PM
People like douglasmolina who are so easily offended on the behalf of others, do it for show. They do it to get themselves 'elected', not over any real interest in making things better. The flip side of people like that is abusive behavior and perverted tendices, carried out behind closed doors. Stalking ex-girlfriends, beating pets, rape/bondage porn, that kind of stuff. I know his type. He can just as easily rationalize the worst in people as he can play their 'great defender'.



Everything can carry some kind of stigma if you know how to work the system.

What I wonder is who cares? Why treat the Chinese with kid gloves? People come down on the U.S. and England so easily but want to protect the Chinese. Give me a break. They have been brutal, and will continue to be brutal. Just look at Tibet as one example; but no, good ole douglasmolina will come to the rescue of Chicom. He says "Dont hurt their feelings, their not heavy, their my stage prop."

Vote doug, the peoples choice. Now pass me that plate of dog.

LOL...you don't get it and you're ignorance is blatant. Not only do you make sweeping generalizations but you misspell "they're" repeatedly.

Douglas stated his opinion in a civilized way...you, on the other hand, called him in essence a dirty politician and pervert....simply because he pointed out, as many others correctly have, that your use of 'chinaman' was incorrect and derogatory. It's chinese man, french man, englishman...what you're saying is analagous to calling the French a Franceman or the English Englandmans. It's not only grammatically incorrect but also offensive.

Others in here have disagreed with him and amongst each other...yet you're the only one getting a firm warning. Learn to argue, and grow up a bit.

Do not try me young man...because you will get banned. Consider this your only warning.

Teufelhund
04-28-2006, 03:20 PM
*snicker*

BG5150
04-28-2006, 04:32 PM
Noo need to go to fitday.

Duck info: http://www.calorie-count.com/calories/browse/0502.html

Goodwinm
04-28-2006, 04:37 PM
LOL..
I thought that this thread was going to be about the nutritional profile of DOG FOOD not about actually eating dog.

Given that I say chow down on the doggie. I fail to see how anyone other than a vegetarian could be opposed to this without being a hypocrit*sp.
I must be a hyopcrite. But my opinion stands final. And i resepct anyone elses opinions too. Although Chinese people (see that, i didnt say Chinamen) do tortue the F**k out of animals. And so do English, and French, German, Americans. Everone does. But in China its a lot more brutal.
Unless however you look at fox hunting in the UK here. Thats some cruel ****!

Goodwinm
04-29-2006, 01:36 AM
Mefistofole banned now. Oh. Did he post something that was offesnive to anyone?

Bam
04-29-2006, 09:11 PM
Whats the diffrence between a dog/pig/cow there all animals

235orbust
04-29-2006, 09:22 PM
hmmm.......

:snaps dogs neck while he is sleeping:

:throws whole carcus in the oven:

Blood&Iron
04-30-2006, 02:47 PM
ok then. How about this?

Chinaman/Chineseman
Englandman/Englishman
Franceman/Frenchman

I can't be the only one thinking of this:


The Dude: Walter, what is the point? Look, we all know who is at fault here, what the **** are you talking about?
Walter Sobchak: Huh? No, what the **** are you... I'm not... We're talking about unchecked aggression here, dude.
Donny: What the **** is he talking about?
The Dude: My rug.
Walter Sobchak: Forget it, Donny, you're out of your element!
The Dude: Walter, the chinaman who peed on my rug, I can't go give him a bill, so what the **** are you talking about?
Walter Sobchak: What the **** are you talking about? The chinaman is not the issue here, Dude. I'm talking about drawing a line in the sand, Dude. Across this line, you DO NOT... Also, Dude, chinaman is not the preferred nomenclature. Asian-American, please.
The Dude: Walter, this isn't a guy who built the ****ing railroads here. This is a guy...
Walter Sobchak: What the **** are you talking about?
The Dude: Walter, he peed on my rug!
Donny: He peed on the Dude's rug.
Walter Sobchak: Donny you're out of your element!

Shouji
05-09-2007, 08:21 PM
There is still much of the older generations of Chinese elders who had to grow up eating dogs to survive. You can't criticize what they did, it was a necessity. Just like some of the traditional Cambodians are cannibals, they have grown and taught that that was normal. And it is: to them. Now I would not eat dog myself, but I simply CANNOT tell another person that they are wrong.

Mr. D
05-09-2007, 09:56 PM
you guys dont love animals enough not to eat chicken,beef,pork.

What makes eating dog meat any difference?

Eating one animal is the same as eating another animal in terms of compassion or lack thereof.

samj
05-10-2007, 02:24 PM
if i seen you eating a dog i would probs have to kill you. can chicken cows or pigs sit when told? come when called? lick you to death? play with you? i dont think so! they also eat and brutally kill dolphins whats the need in that?

faithless
05-10-2007, 02:48 PM
if i seen you eating a dog i would probs have to kill you. can chicken cows or pigs sit when told? come when called? lick you to death? play with you? i dont think so! they also eat and brutally kill dolphins whats the need in that?

That's the worse line of reasoning I've ever heard.

samj
05-10-2007, 02:54 PM
:withstupi pretty much

McIrish
05-10-2007, 03:00 PM
if i seen you eating a dog i would probs have to kill you. can chicken cows or pigs sit when told? come when called? lick you to death? play with you? i dont think so! they also eat and brutally kill dolphins whats the need in that?

Who is this "they" to whom you are referring? :scratch:

Hah, I find it hilarious that you guys are singling out the baaaaaad Chinese for eating dog as if China were the only country on Earth where it's culturally acceptable to eat dog meat. For the record, dog is still consumed in many parts of Asia and it's hardly exclusive to China. People also consume insects. *GASP*! Time to get off the high horses, people.

Unreal
05-10-2007, 03:02 PM
if i seen you eating a dog i would probs have to kill you. can chicken cows or pigs sit when told? come when called? lick you to death? play with you? i dont think so! they also eat and brutally kill dolphins whats the need in that?

If they were trained to do so, yes. Pigs are very smart and can be trained just like dogs. My friend had a nice pot belly pig that was litter trained and did all sorts of tricks. Almost any animal can be trained to do simple stuff like come when called, or sit.

faithless
05-10-2007, 03:09 PM
Not to mention that eating cows and pigs are considerered sacrilegious to some of the bigger religions but do we care? Nah. If a large portion of white people do it then it can't possibly be wrong.

BFGUITAR
05-10-2007, 03:17 PM
I understand that there are differences between our North American culture and theirs and I respect that. I wouldnt eat dog personally but if someone halfway across the world needs to eat dog to live and get their nutrients, go ahead.

But if you are going to eat an animal kill it properly. Someone mentioned before that they take this spike which shoots into the cow's head which "should" instantly kill it. Although, this does not effectively kill the animal in a painless way.

1) The animal's body will go into shock. The nervous system is independant of the brain.
2) Alot of the blood in the animal still remains (sure you can get it out afterwards but there is still blood inside the flesh itself)
3) Can be painful (the brain isnt completely dead after it is impaled)

The most humane way to slaughter an animal is with a very very sharp blade at the neck with a clean cut.
1) The animal doesnt feel the cut itself (If you ever recall being paper cut, the pain isnt instant)
2) The blood is drained out from the neck, which is a major area of blood flow leaving alot less blood in the animal
3) The animal passes out after 2 seconds.

In the Jewish religion it is mandatory for an animal to be killed in this manner otherwise it isnt kosher to eat. It shows the most respect for the animal by not trying to hurt it in the slaughtering process (you could say that the act of killing an animal is disrespectful but thats another story)

seK
05-10-2007, 03:41 PM
I understand that there are differences between our North American culture and theirs and I respect that. I wouldnt eat dog personally but if someone halfway across the world needs to eat dog to live and get their nutrients, go ahead.

But if you are going to eat an animal kill it properly. Someone mentioned before that they take this spike which shoots into the cow's head which "should" instantly kill it. Although, this does not effectively kill the animal in a painless way.

1) The animal's body will go into shock. The nervous system is independant of the brain.
2) Alot of the blood in the animal still remains (sure you can get it out afterwards but there is still blood inside the flesh itself)
3) Can be painful (the brain isnt completely dead after it is impaled)

The most humane way to slaughter an animal is with a very very sharp blade at the neck with a clean cut.
1) The animal doesnt feel the cut itself (If you ever recall being paper cut, the pain isnt instant)
2) The blood is drained out from the neck, which is a major area of blood flow leaving alot less blood in the animal
3) The animal passes out after 2 seconds.

In the Jewish religion it is mandatory for an animal to be killed in this manner otherwise it isnt kosher to eat. It shows the most respect for the animal by not trying to hurt it in the slaughtering process (you could say that the act of killing an animal is disrespectful but thats another story)

Or Chuck Norris looks at the animal and it dies instantly.

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
05-10-2007, 07:14 PM
^^

No, he has to roundhouse kick it to the face for that to happen.

samj
05-11-2007, 07:35 AM
you people and racism i hate the spanish for killing bulls the way they do. Now if they were black you would say i was being racist:mad:

seK
05-11-2007, 11:56 AM
you people and racism i hate the spanish for killing bulls the way they do. Now if they were black you would say i was being racist:mad:

what people?