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SuperTerrorizer
04-27-2006, 10:28 PM
Curious.

cts122
04-27-2006, 10:35 PM
Not neccessarily as long as it fits your caloric needs.

SuperTerrorizer
04-27-2006, 11:21 PM
On days when I don't get much to eat would it be safe to have 4 a day?\

Morning, pre-workout, post-workout, bed

smalls
04-27-2006, 11:51 PM
I dont understand how it could be unsafe, or what you mean by shake. If your talking about just protein in water or milk, then that's a bad idea unless your dieting as it most likely wouldnt be very many cals. If you mean a shake with other ghit mixed in, I have 8 of those a day.

Scarecrow
04-28-2006, 12:28 AM
Well its pointless to drink to many shakes in a day, the body can only digest so much and when it reaches its protein limit for the day the rest you just poop out!

smalls
04-28-2006, 12:35 AM
Well its pointless to drink to many shakes in a day, the body can only digest so much and when it reaches its protein limit for the day the rest you just poop out!



That is ******ed and completely incorrect. Please dont post garbage unless you partially know what your talking about. Thanks.

Scarecrow
04-28-2006, 12:53 AM
That is ******ed and completely incorrect. Please dont post garbage unless you partially know what your talking about. Thanks.

Okay buddy whatever you say :rolleyes: - You wanna be getting 0.8 g of protein per kg body weight per day. Anything above that is pretty much a waste as protein cannot be stored in the body and the excess protein like I stated you're gonna poop/piss it out. Also too much protein can become stressfull for the kidneys!

Ask any god damn doctor, scientist or nutrionist in the world.

Sidior
04-28-2006, 01:06 AM
[QUOTE=Scarecrow]Okay buddy whatever you say :rolleyes: - You wanna be getting 0.8 g of protein per kg body weight per day. Anything above that is pretty much a waste as protein cannot be stored in the body and the excess protein like I stated you're gonna poop/piss it out. Also too much protein can become stressfull for the kidneys!

Ask any god damn doctor, scientist or nutrionist in the worldQUOTE]

Wow, obviously you are a new member and are unaware at how accurate smalls is. You should also consider he is one of the more respected members on this site especially considering nutrition and to call him a moron not only makes you come across as an *******, but shows how little knowledge you really have. I hope you get banned...and soon.

Scarecrow
04-28-2006, 01:12 AM
You should also consider he is one of the more respected members on this site especially considering nutrition

Yet he doesn't even know the basics? :rolleyes:

Sidior
04-28-2006, 01:15 AM
lol you are missing the point.... do some learning and come back

brickt.
04-28-2006, 01:16 AM
Yet he doesn't even know the basics? :rolleyes:

:bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang:

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
04-28-2006, 01:19 AM
Yet he doesn't even know the basics? :rolleyes::zipit:

smalls
04-28-2006, 01:21 AM
Okay buddy whatever you say :rolleyes: - You wanna be getting 0.8 g of protein per kg body weight per day. Anything above that is pretty much a waste as protein cannot be stored in the body and the excess protein like I stated you're gonna poop/piss it out. Also too much protein can become stressfull for the kidneys!

Ask any god damn doctor, scientist or nutrionist in the world!


1. Name calling is not usually approved on this site and can lead to banning. And should be reserved for when I really AM a dick. So save it up.

2. Please explain how protein is pooped out, and please get as specific as necassary.

I agree that most studies show .8 g/kg is more than sufficient, for the average adult. Athletes have been shown to benefit from higher intakes. I would rather overindulge than under.


In a normal healthy adult the body wastes almost nothing, I'm sure all the obese people around wish it would. It either utilizes it for building and repair, energy, or stores it. The body can't store protein but it sure can convert it and store it as fat. Any macronutrient can be stored as fat.
Please read a little before coming here and spouting off "shape magazine BS".

The people here are smart enough to educate themselves instead of believing infomercials. Join us.

smalls
04-28-2006, 01:22 AM
And thanks sidior and others. Sometimes it doesnt even seem worth it. We should just leave people to their ignorance and move on.

HILL
04-28-2006, 01:59 AM
Come on guys hes more than welcome to argue his point. Scarecrow if you are correct why dont you post up some research and facts to prove your point. One only needs to search to find facts and research on this site(possibly posted by smalls) to prove what smalls is saying. we like discussions around here but only factual ones were people will back up their statements with facts and research not some **** you read in a magazine

Scarecrow
04-28-2006, 02:20 AM
1. Name calling is not usually approved on this site and can lead to banning. And should be reserved for when I really AM a dick. So save it up.

:rolleyes:


2. Please explain how protein is pooped out, and please get as specific as necassary.

I agree that most studies show .8 g/kg is more than sufficient, for the average adult. Athletes have been shown to benefit from higher intakes. I would rather overindulge than under.


In a normal healthy adult the body wastes almost nothing, I'm sure all the obese people around wish it would. It either utilizes it for building and repair, energy, or stores it. The body can't store protein but it sure can convert it and store it as fat. Any macronutrient can be stored as fat.
Please read a little before coming here and spouting off "shape magazine BS".

The people here are smart enough to educate themselves instead of believing infomercials. Join us.

It's pretty sad people look upto you for nutrition advice when you ask such ridicilous questions. Take a guy that weighs 200lbs for instance, you put him on diet where he is consuming lets say 350+g of protein a day. Now to your knowledge you see nothing wrong in this? - Well wrong! - Your body can only do so much and giving it such a huge supply of protein in such a short period of time it doesnt give the body enough time to process it all into "Amino Acids". So that extra protein you consumed didn't help at all, yeah it gets stored as fat and gets pooped out aswell. So in the end it didnt do you any good and you wasted protein and at the same time really put a strain on your kidneys and liver no doubt. You keep doing this, and years down the line you're gonna regret it.

Yeah it's 0.8g-1.2 something like that.

Scarecrow
04-28-2006, 02:22 AM
we like discussions around here but only factual ones were people will back up their statements with facts and research not some **** you read in a magazine

Where i'm from we learnt about the basic functions of the human body in school.

Sidior
04-28-2006, 02:32 AM
Where i'm from we learnt about the basic functions of the human body in school.

You learned wrong bud. Don't you wonder why everyone else seems to disagree with you?

teck
04-28-2006, 03:41 AM
to be honest this being my first post and all may be disregarded but what ever. For one "smalls" (not that i know you) but you dont get a senior member for nothing so new people understand that he/she must know alot!! and dont you think this has drifted OT a bit?

To answer the question, thats about how many shakes i have even tho i try not to have a lot of shakes as there is all the stuff you need in food.

Just to chuck my '2cents' in i personally think that is absolutly cra*p! if you read any half decent forum (this forum for a good example!) normal intake is around 1-1.2 just to maintain (even tho you could bulk on this amount) i intake around 2 when bulking. but that is just my opinion

Scarecrow
04-28-2006, 09:36 AM
to be honest this being my first post and all may be disregarded but what ever. For one "smalls" (not that i know you) but you dont get a senior member for nothing so new people understand that he/she must know alot!! and dont you think this has drifted OT a bit?

To answer the question, thats about how many shakes i have even tho i try not to have a lot of shakes as there is all the stuff you need in food.

Just to chuck my '2cents' in i personally think that is absolutly cra*p! if you read any half decent forum (this forum for a good example!) normal intake is around 1-1.2 just to maintain (even tho you could bulk on this amount) i intake around 2 when bulking. but that is just my opinion

Yeah I said anything between 0.8-1.2g

Unreal
04-28-2006, 09:39 AM
You just don't crap out extra macros. Your body uses them. While the extra protein may not be used for tissue repair/building, it doesn't just go out the poop chute.

Also, if excess protein was so bad for your liver/body, then 90% of the people here would be dead, and there would be no one to argue with.

Scarecrow
04-28-2006, 10:02 AM
You just don't crap out extra macros. Your body uses them. While the extra protein may not be used for tissue repair/building, it doesn't just go out the poop chute.

Also, if excess protein was so bad for your liver/body, then 90% of the people here would be dead, and there would be no one to argue with.

Yes it gets stored as fat and who wants that?
Yeah "excess" and "long term" are they key words here.

JustinASU
04-28-2006, 10:09 AM
Yes it gets stored as fat and who wants that?
Yeah "excess" and "long term" are they key words here.


Well its pointless to drink to many shakes in a day, the body can only digest so much and when it reaches its protein limit for the day the rest you just poop out!

Funny, your opinion seems to have drastically changed.

Scarecrow
04-28-2006, 10:18 AM
Funny, your opinion seems to have drastically changed.

Yeah you poop it out + stores as fat, you think you're poop doesnt have any protein in it?

How has my opinion drastically changed, sparky? :rolleyes:

Unreal
04-28-2006, 10:39 AM
Funny I take in 250g+ of protein a day, yet I'm getting leaner and leaner.

It only gets stored as fat if you are in a caloric excess.

Scarecrow
04-28-2006, 10:46 AM
Funny I take in 250g+ of protein a day, yet I'm getting leaner and leaner.

It only gets stored as fat if you are in a caloric excess.

How much do you weigh?

Slim Schaedle
04-28-2006, 10:54 AM
Holy crap, I cannot wait to jump one this one.

But you commrades seem to have it under control for now.

Slim Schaedle
04-28-2006, 10:55 AM
Well its pointless to drink to many shakes in a day, the body can only digest so much and when it reaches its protein limit for the day the rest you just poop out!
If you can give me the exact process by which the body "poops out" protein, I will begin to respect your posts and your opnion. And I said begin.



Also, specify what you mean by "digest" since everyone seems to have an different idea of what digestion is these days.

JustinASU
04-28-2006, 10:59 AM
Yeah you poop it out + stores as fat, you think you're poop doesnt have any protein in it?

How has my opinion drastically changed, sparky? :rolleyes:

Actually your original opinion was that it all "gets pooped out". After some knowledgeable and respected members chimed in and said, worst case scenario, it gets stored as fat, you changed your opinion to conform to what they said.

Scarecrow
04-28-2006, 11:07 AM
Actually your original opinion was that it all "gets pooped out". After some knowledgeable and respected members chimed in and said, worst case scenario, it gets stored as fat, you changed your opinion to conform to what they said.

Okay buddy. I thought it was pretty obvious that the left overs that didnt get pooped out would be stored as fat. These knowledgeable members you speak of dont know their ass from their elbow when it comes to nutrition and basic body functions.

Just do a simple Google search and this whole arguement can end right here!

Slim Schaedle
04-28-2006, 11:09 AM
Okay buddy. I thought it was pretty obvious that the left overs that didnt get pooped out would be stored as fat. These knowledgeable members you speak of dont know their ass from their elbow when it comes to nutrition and basic body functions.

Just do a simple Google search and this whole arguement can end right here!
hahahahahahahaha.

Normally, I try not to be an ass.

Google? Give me a break. Also, answer my post.

Then, look around the forums. We don't know crap.

Also, do you have any qualifications besides google?

smalls
04-28-2006, 11:18 AM
Alright bro. Here is an easy way to educate yourself. Think about the fact that you keep saying excess protein will be pooped out, YET excess protein cuases KIDNEY problems. Think hard, in fact do a search on nitrogen, urea, excess protein. . whatever, all of these will give you your answer.
You will then formulate a new yet STILL wrong opinion and we will have to further the lesson from there. Baby steps.


There has got to be some kind of award for this thread. I mean we have had some good ones, but insane amounts of ignorance + arrogance and the ability to be condescending and yet not funny, thats impressive.

RickTheDestroyer
04-28-2006, 11:20 AM
Curious.

Many people have pretty successfully used completely (or mostly) liquid diets, assuming certain nutritional requirements are met. I drink 8 shakes a day. I suppose one could probably go overboard, but four a day should be fine, especially placed where you're getting them.

As to the rest of the ****storm this thread has become- I'd rather err on the side of expensive extra calories than not get enough protein to support my training. Additionally, Scarecrow you are the reason there's an ignore button, and once I grow tired of watching you make an ass of yourself I'll never have to read another of your posts again. Then again, you'll probably get banned before the day is over, so maybe ignoring you is a wasted effort.
:thumbup:

getfit
04-28-2006, 11:26 AM
Okay buddy. I thought it was pretty obvious that the left overs that didnt get pooped out would be stored as fat. These knowledgeable members you speak of dont know their ass from their elbow when it comes to nutrition and basic body functions.

Just do a simple Google search and this whole arguement can end right here!
let me tell you one thing Scarecrow as a new member to this board, i DO NOT tolerate name calling, one more post like this from you, you shall no longer be posting on this board.I hope i've made myself clear

Holto
04-28-2006, 11:37 AM
Scarecrow please answer Slim's question.

Bear in mind that many of here have an intimate understanding of the digestive and elimination process.

Explain the pathway that an amino acid takes to become part of the feces.

Scarecrow
04-28-2006, 11:39 AM
Alright bro. Here is an easy way to educate yourself. Think about the fact that you keep saying excess protein will be pooped out, YET excess protein cuases KIDNEY problems. Think hard, in fact do a search on nitrogen, urea, excess protein. . whatever, all of these will give you your answer.
You will then formulate a new yet STILL wrong opinion and we will have to further the lesson from there. Baby steps.


There has got to be some kind of award for this thread. I mean we have had some good ones, but insane amounts of ignorance + arrogance and the ability to be condescending and yet not funny, thats impressive.

I'm always wrong? and you're always right? Okay

Scarecrow
04-28-2006, 11:40 AM
Many people have pretty successfully used completely (or mostly) liquid diets, assuming certain nutritional requirements are met. I drink 8 shakes a day. I suppose one could probably go overboard, but four a day should be fine, especially placed where you're getting them.

As to the rest of the ****storm this thread has become- I'd rather err on the side of expensive extra calories than not get enough protein to support my training. Additionally, Scarecrow you are the reason there's an ignore button, and once I grow tired of watching you make an ass of yourself I'll never have to read another of your posts again. Then again, you'll probably get banned before the day is over, so maybe ignoring you is a wasted effort.
:thumbup:

Fine if you dont agree with me or do not wish to read my posts USE the "IGNORE" button - What do I care?

Scarecrow
04-28-2006, 11:44 AM
Scarecrow please answer Slim's question.

Bear in mind that many of here have an intimate understanding of the digestive and elimination process.

Explain the pathway that an amino acid takes to become part of the feces.

You and the others have obviously stated that my opinion is "bullcrap" and I have not a clue about what im talking about. So why ask me anymore?

Scarecrow
04-28-2006, 11:46 AM
let me tell you one thing Scarecrow as a new member to this board, i DO NOT tolerate name calling, one more post like this from you, you shall no longer be posting on this board.I hope i've made myself clear

Im sorry if offended anybody by calling them a "moron" - as adults I thought we could handle the odd name calling on the Internet.

getfit
04-28-2006, 11:47 AM
Im sorry if offended anybody by calling them a "moron" - as adults I thought we could handle the odd name calling on the Internet.
not on this board,NO NAME CALLING

Slim Schaedle
04-28-2006, 11:47 AM
You and the others have obviously stated that my opinion is "bullcrap" and I have not a clue about what im talking about. So why ask me anymore?
Don't take the easy way out.

I said if you can provide me with the information I will begin to respect your posts.

Scarecrow
04-28-2006, 11:49 AM
Don't take the easy way out.

I said if you can provide me with the information I will begin to respect your posts.

Yes because E-Respect is very important :rolleyes:

Unreal
04-28-2006, 11:52 AM
You and the others have obviously stated that my opinion is "bullcrap" and I have not a clue about what im talking about. So why ask me anymore?


The problem is, this isn't a matter of opinion. It hs science and hard facts. Your opinion on what your body does with protein has no effect on what really happens. Slim will make your head spin with nutrition info. I'm sure something along the lines of ATP, Kerbs, glycogen, pathways, liver function and who knows what else is coming.

The only way your going to put on long term fat is to stay in a caloric excess. Every meal your body will deposit fat, and is constantly running off fat. So if you eat 300g a day of protein, and weigh 150lbs, your not going to be any fatter at the end of the day, because as long as your under maintence levels you'll burn more energy then you take in.

Slim Schaedle
04-28-2006, 11:53 AM
Yes because E-Respect is very important :rolleyes:
Well, you just said yourself that you will not provide us with an answer because we haven't respected your opnion...so it must be important enough for you to back down from your internet crusade against excess protein consumption.

Scarecrow
04-28-2006, 12:00 PM
Well, you just said yourself that you will not provide us with an answer because we haven't respected your opnion...so it must be important enough for you to back down from your internet crusade against excess protein consumption.

No it's more the fact that I dont really care. I am off to the grocery store in about 10mins - WTF do I care what is said here and who's respect I have gained?

I have managed to build a solid 17" arms with my "bullcrap" nutrition nonsense. From now on I shall listen to you.

TTT
04-28-2006, 12:04 PM
Give this guy a chance, people. At least he's got the bit about excess protein being hard on the kidneys right.
This thing has escalated into a ****fight, but we can just as easily calm it back down again.

Slim Schaedle
04-28-2006, 12:04 PM
No it's more the fact that I dont really care. I am off to the grocery store in about 10mins - WTF do I care what is said here and who's respect I have gained?

I have managed to build a solid 17" arms with my "bullcrap" nutrition nonsense. From now on I shall listen to you.
There are people waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay bigger than alot of us on here.

But that doesn't mean they know more.

Maybe your arms would be 18" with different knowledge. Who knows.

smalls
04-28-2006, 12:58 PM
Dont you at least want to research the idea and understand why everyone here is obviously coming to a different conclusion than you? It's kind of insane to just stick your head in the sand and your fingers in yours ears when truth comes your way.

Size has no direct corelation to intelligence, especially not arm size LOL. Either stop posting all together or educate yourself. Why would you want to go on beleiving something that is incorrect if you could LEARN.

Scarecrow
04-28-2006, 01:37 PM
Dont you at least want to research the idea and understand why everyone here is obviously coming to a different conclusion than you? It's kind of insane to just stick your head in the sand and your fingers in yours ears when truth comes your way.

Size has no direct corelation to intelligence, especially not arm size LOL. Either stop posting all together or educate yourself. Why would you want to go on beleiving something that is incorrect if you could LEARN.

I am not about to jump upon the bandwaggon and be naive enough to believe that no matter how much protein you supply to your body it will be able to digest it. That's just stupid.

If I was to take advice and learn I would turn to people that actually knew what they were talking about.

DoUgL@S
04-28-2006, 02:01 PM
Hey scarecrow, here is a recent review. Maybe you can find some answers

J AOAC Int. 2005 May-Jun;88(3):923-34. Related Articles, Links

In vivo determination of amino acid bioavailability in humans and model animals.

Fuller MF, Tome D.

Rowett Research Institute, Bucksburn, Aberdeen AB21 9SB, United Kingdom. malcolm689@aol.com

Because the digestion of many dietary proteins is incomplete, and because there is a continuous (but variable) entry into the intestinal lumen of endogenous protein and amino acid nitrogen that is also subject to digestion, the fluxes of nitrogen, amino acids, and protein in the gut exhibit a rather complicated pattern. Methods to distinguish and quantitate the endogenous and dietary components of nitrogen and amino acids in ileal chyme or feces include the use of a protein-free diet, the enzyme-hydrolyzed protein method, different levels of protein intake, multiple regression methods, and stable-isotope labelling of endogenous or exogenous amino acids. Assessment of bioavailability can be made, with varying degrees of difficulty, in man directly but, for routine evaluation of foods, the use of model animals is attractive for several reasons, the main ones being cost and time. Various animals and birds have been proposed as models for man but, in determining their suitability as a model, their physiological, enzymological, and microbiological differences must be considered. Fecal or ileal digestibility measurements, as well as apparent and true nitrogen and amino acid digestibility measurements, have very different nutritional significance and can, thus, be used for different objectives. Measurements at the ileal level are critical for determining amino acid losses of both dietary and endogenous origin, whereas measurements at the fecal level are critical in assessing whole-body nitrogen losses. A complementary and still unresolved aspect is to take into account the recycling of intestinal nitrogen and bacterial amino acids to the body.

Publication Types:

* Review


PMID: 16001870 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16001870&query_hl=2&itool=pubmed_docsum

Slim Schaedle
04-28-2006, 03:48 PM
I am not about to jump upon the bandwaggon and be naive enough to believe that no matter how much protein you supply to your body it will be able to digest it. That's just stupid.

Do you know what "digest" means?

Just out of curiosity, what is a definition in your words?


If I was to take advice and learn I would turn to people that actually knew what they were talking about.
Better start turning then.

Scarecrow
04-28-2006, 03:52 PM
Do you know what "digest" means?

Just out of curiosity, what is a definition in your words?


Better start turning then.

Oh so now it my english that is at fault, LOL

Digest = To convert (food) into simpler chemical compounds that can be absorbed and assimilated by the body

Slim Schaedle
04-28-2006, 03:56 PM
So what does the conversion of protein into fatty acids have to with digestion?

Scarecrow
04-28-2006, 03:59 PM
So what does the conversion of protein into fatty acids have to with digestion?

Oh god I give up!
You dont think the food you eat needs to be digested first? LOL

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
04-28-2006, 04:01 PM
These knowledgeable members you speak of dont know their ass from their elbow when it comes to nutrition and basic body functions.Apparently neither do you.



Just do a simple Google search and this whole arguement can end right here!The internet is full of false information.



Oh god I give up!Ok.

Slim Schaedle
04-28-2006, 04:04 PM
My point is that you are arguing that excess protein is pointless because of its conversion to fatty acids, and, to keep this simple, other stuff that excludes aiding muscle recovery.

Then you say you refuse to believe the body will deigest what it has been given.

I am trying to get a feel for how much you really know.

Digestion, absorption, and utilization are all different things. Your posts seem to indicate you do not know the difference, or at least do not address them.

And this is the very basics of nutrition, which you claim we know nothing about.

Scarecrow
04-28-2006, 04:07 PM
My point is that you are arguing that excess protein is pointless because of its conversion to fatty acids, and, to keep this simple, other stuff that excludes aiding muscle recovery.

Then you say you refuse to believe the body will deigest what it has been given.

I am trying to get a feel for how much you really know.

Digestion, absorption, and utilization are all different things. Your posts seem to indicate you do not know the difference, or at least do not adress them. And this is the very basics of nutrition, which you claim we know nothing about.

Im not gonna get into this pointless arguement. All I ever said was that eating way over your daily protein intake would be pointless as it would just be a waste. Now this thread has turned into 3 pages of people climbing up my ass.

Slim Schaedle
04-28-2006, 04:09 PM
Im not gonna get into this pointless arguement. All I ever said was that eating way over your daily protein intake would be pointless as it would just be a waste. Now this thread has turned into 3 pages of people climbing up my ass.
That's not all you ever said.

This isn't pointless at all. This is about you explaining yourself for making claims which we believe to be false. You might even learn something from all this. Other newbies reading this now, and years to come will surely learn something. These threads are what make WBB. Something that starts off as a simple question and turns into a poo-flinging war over science.

If you want to salvage some E-dignity and admit that you are in over your head, you can do so. It's alright to be wrong.

I have been wrong before as well.

I am also still waiting on the explanation of how protein ends up in feces. If you care nothing about the rest of this, at least explain yourself. If not, that is evidence to me, and perhaps many others on this baord, that you don't know what you talking about and willl not take the effort to research it in order to support your claim.

Beast
04-28-2006, 04:15 PM
Please stop feeding the troll, you guys.

And I'm trying to understand why Getfit hasn't pushed the magic button yet!

Scarecrow
04-28-2006, 04:18 PM
Please stop feeding the troll, you guys.

And I'm trying to understand why Getfit hasn't pushed the magic button yet!

I should be banned because im not willing to agree with false information?
Yeah that makes sense!

Slim Schaedle
04-28-2006, 04:20 PM
I should be banned because im not willing to agree with false information?
Yeah that makes sense!
Prove us wrong.


My apologies to anyone annoyed by my "troll feeding" haha

I'm a pushy bi--h sometimes. It's all for a good cause.

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
04-28-2006, 04:21 PM
I should be banned because im not willing to agree with false information?The problem is, you think everything in your head is fact.

Scarecrow
04-28-2006, 04:23 PM
The problem is, you think everything in your head is fact.

And you people don't? haha don't be such a hypocrite.

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
04-28-2006, 04:26 PM
And you people don't? haha don't be such a hypocrite.I'm not being a hypocrite. I've been wrong many times and did research to improve my understanding of a certain subject. This is also the reason I chose nutrition as my major in college.

Scarecrow
04-28-2006, 04:30 PM
I'm not being a hypocrite. I've been wrong many times and did research to improve my understanding of a certain subject. This is also the reason I chose nutrition as my major in college.

Your major in college was Nutrition yet you thought supps cannot work unless they are swallowed orally and believed the supplement I was talking about was a pro-hormone. I sure wouldn't want you as my nutritionist.

Scarecrow
04-28-2006, 04:31 PM
Prove us wrong.


My apologies to anyone annoyed by my "troll feeding" haha

I'm a pushy bi--h sometimes. It's all for a good cause.

So a Troll is someone that doesnt agree with you? Okay boss got it!

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
04-28-2006, 04:31 PM
Your major in college was Nutrition yet you thought supps cannot work unless they are swallowed orally and believed the supplement I was talking about was a pro-hormone. I sure wouldn't want you as my nutritionist.I never said anything about oral supplementation or not. You did. And I assumed it was a pro-hormone regarding the title of the thread. Then I searched for it and realized it was a cream. Don't know what you're getting at, but you need to lose the attitude.

Scarecrow
04-28-2006, 04:32 PM
Don't know what you're getting at, but you need to lose the attitude.

Likewise

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
04-28-2006, 04:34 PM
You could start by opening up your mind a little and stop hating the world.

Slim Schaedle
04-28-2006, 04:35 PM
So a Troll is someone that doesnt agree with you? Okay boss got it!
I was quoting someone else with the use of "troll."

I honestly thought we could get an explanation from you on what we question, but this is turning into a joke.

Davidelmo
04-28-2006, 04:37 PM
Show PROOF.. then we will believe you.

If you're right, it wont be hard to find proof.

Beast
04-28-2006, 04:39 PM
My apologies to anyone annoyed by my "troll feeding" haha

I'm a pushy bi--h sometimes. It's all for a good cause.
Oh, I'm not annoyed at all. It's just not fun for people to have to waste their time and energy trying to explain a concept to someone who is just interested in getting himself off by arguing with others. You know?

Davidelmo
04-28-2006, 04:39 PM
I am not about to jump upon the bandwaggon and be naive enough to believe that no matter how much protein you supply to your body it will be able to digest it. That's just stupid.

If I was to take advice and learn I would turn to people that actually knew what they were talking about.

This is probably your best post.. and by best I mean funniest.. and by funniest I mean dumbest ;)

Scarecrow
04-28-2006, 04:40 PM
Show PROOF.. then we will believe you.

If you're right, it wont be hard to find proof.

Likewise.
Find me 1 legit article that describes how the body is able to process huge amounts of protein throughout the body without any of it being stored as fat cells or pooped out. You can't - Point proven.

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
04-28-2006, 04:47 PM
Your body will use just as much as it needs for normal bodily functions (there are an insane amount of uses of protein in the body) and tissue repair. Every person is different. Athletes utilize more. Every cell in your body needs protein. The rest will either be stored as fat or excreted from the body. Proteins are the building blocks of life.

Davidelmo
04-28-2006, 04:52 PM
Likewise.
Find me 1 legit article that describes how the body is able to process huge amounts of protein throughout the body without any of it being stored as fat cells or pooped out. You can't - Point proven.

You've changed your story.. you said the body couldn't DIGEST/"process" it.

No-one ever said that it wouldn't be stored as fat... of course it would- that's obvious to anyone who ever sat through high school biology.

Scarecrow
04-28-2006, 04:53 PM
Athletes utilize more. Every cell in your body needs protein. The rest will either be stored as fat or excreted from the body. Proteins are the building blocks of life.

Thank you for proving my point. I said big amounts of protein, im talking about people weighing 150lbs and eating 300g of protein a day. Obviously the body cannot process all that into amino acids and it will be stored as fat and like you say excreted from the body. Every body was telling me protein never leaves the body and you can eat as much as you want and every last gram will be used in muscle aid.

Davidelmo
04-28-2006, 04:57 PM
Thank you for proving my point. I said big amounts of protein, im talking about people weighing 150lbs and eating 300g of protein a day. Obviously the body cannot process all that into amino acids and it will be stored as fat and like you say excreted from the body. Every body was telling me protein never leaves the body and you can eat as much as you want and every last gram will be used in muscle aid.

No they weren't.

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
04-28-2006, 04:57 PM
im talking about people weighing 150lbs and eating 300g of protein a day. Obviously the body cannot process all that into amino acids and it will be stored as fat and like you say excreted from the body.That's the problem though. There is no set amount that an individual can utilize. It is impossible to make a number that can be generalized. It's completely dependent upon many factors for each individual person.



Every body was telling me protein never leaves the body and you can eat as much as you want and every last gram will be used in muscle aid.I think that was more sarcasm than anything. I think you're misunderstanding some of the folks here because you seem to be irked to a point of just arguing and not going about a conversation full of intelligent points of discussion. People were asking to show evidence for your claims, but you haven't done that. All you've said is "Just use Google". Anyone can do that. If you want to stand so strongly on a point, find some evidence to back up what you say. Nutrition journals, amoung other things, are a good place to start.

Scarecrow
04-28-2006, 04:59 PM
You've changed your story.. you said the body couldn't DIGEST/"process" it.

No-one ever said that it wouldn't be stored as fat... of course it would- that's obvious to anyone who ever sat through high school biology.

It cant process all the protein into aid with muscle. Of course everything that goes in your piehole gets digested as you chew the god damn food and then it goes down in ur stomach where the acids in your stomach will do its job.
I haven't changed my story, maybe I shouldnt have used digest in 1 of my posts but people in here was saying that you dont poop out any protein at all.

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
04-28-2006, 05:02 PM
It cant process all the protein into aid with muscle.Of course it can't. But muscle tissue repair isn't protein's only function.



Of course everything that goes in your piehole gets digested as you chew the god damn food and then it goes down in ur stomach where the acids in your stomach will do its job.The breaking down of macronutrients, specifically starch and glycogen, starts in your saliva with the enzyme amylase.

Slim Schaedle
04-28-2006, 05:13 PM
Obviously the body cannot process all that into amino acids and it will be stored as fat and like you say excreted from the body. .
In order for protein to be converted to fatty acids, it HAS to be converted to amino acids.

This is pretty cool, I am in the process of moving, and every time I come back inside for another load, I refresh the page and there's something new to laugh about.

Scarecrow
04-28-2006, 05:16 PM
In order for protein to be converted to fatty acids, it HAS to be converted to amino acids.

I was wondering when somebody was gonna point that out. I am done with this thread. I got "OWN3D" by everyone in this thread okay?

This is my last post in this thread!

Slim Schaedle
04-28-2006, 05:17 PM
I was wondering when somebody was gonna point that out. I am done with this thread. I got "OWN3D" by everyone in this thread okay?

This is my last post in this thread!
Then why did you post something that seems to say otherwise?


(this may all be useless but my post count is still going up)

Davidelmo
04-28-2006, 05:18 PM
Okay I'm just confused now, lol

Chris Rodgers
04-28-2006, 09:10 PM
I like shakes.

MMMMM, Muscle Milk. MMMMM :dj:

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
04-28-2006, 09:20 PM
I like shakes.

MMMMM, Muscle Milk. MMMMM :dj:If I had the money, I'd gladly buy Muscle Milk because it tastes so good. But that stuff is way too expensive for me to keep buying it all the time. It doesn't last long.

Chris Rodgers
04-28-2006, 09:23 PM
I hear ya. I get it online and pay $20 per container. I figure for 350 cals in water that's not so bad. If you look at it compared to most MRP's, that's a bit cheaper or around the same. And oh the taste....

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
04-28-2006, 09:28 PM
I figure for 350 cals in water that's not so bad.Or nearly 700 with milk. Mmmm...milk. :)



And oh the taste....:thumbup:

smalls
04-29-2006, 12:48 AM
No-one ever said that it wouldn't be stored as fat... of course it would- that's obvious to anyone who ever sat through high school biology.



Every body was telling me protein never leaves the body and you can eat as much as you want and every last gram will be used in muscle aid.


Protein doesnt leave the body (unless your having some issues) NITROGEN leaves the body. And no one in this thread said every gram is used for muscle building (WTF is muscle aid?)




Of course everything that goes in your piehole gets digested






I got "OWN3D" by everyone in this thread okay?



And with that I think we should finish this rediculously pointless thread.

Well except that this next sentence is so confusing it makes me want to cry.



It cant process all the protein into aid with muscle.

Alex.V
04-29-2006, 01:11 AM
I haven't changed my story, maybe I shouldnt have used digest in 1 of my posts but people in here was saying that you dont poop out any protein at all.

So you're saying that maybe you shouldn't have said something that was untrue, because it made people come and tell you you were wrong?

Indeed.

brickt.
04-29-2006, 02:58 AM
I'm an Idiot!


Yes, you are!

Yes, you are!

Yes, you are!

You've really stirred the pot, buddy

JustLost
04-29-2006, 10:10 AM
You've really stirred the pot, buddy

Heh. People around here don't seem to like the old "proof by repeated assertion."

MantiXX
05-01-2006, 01:38 PM
Noob here myself, but I wonder if he was stating the extreme case of consuming 300g of protein (at 150 lbs bw) in ONE sitting?....

Then I could see how 'SOME PEOPLE" (with not optimally efficient digestive systems - FAT, no fibre diets, lots of 'crud' built up in the ole plumbing etc) would probably digest alot of it, but pass alot as well...

I remember (I'll have to see if I can find it), a study that was about obese people and how their digestion had deteriorated to an extreme level due to the 'ridges' and such in their tract being just packed with undigested food/mucous etc and as such they couldn't digest properly. Therefore they weren't getting complete digestion and missing alot of nutrition from their food. Also considering they were mostly eating JUNK (mcd's, BK etc) and the food lacked nutrition to start with, it was a double whammy... They were literally starving, yet eating 4000-5000 calories a day...LOL...

Anyways, I think the OP has some anger management issues...LOL...

Just my .02....

(Love the site....:hump: )

Jordanbcool
05-01-2006, 08:02 PM
There has got to be some kind of award for this thread. I mean we have had some good ones, but insane amounts of ignorance + arrogance and the ability to be condescending and yet not funny, thats impressive.

And i thought i was atleast the best at something :( :( :(

smalls
05-02-2006, 12:36 AM
And i thought i was atleast the best at something :( :( :(


LOL. I'll admit I've been pretty annoyed with you at times, but you dont even come close to this guy. He's got skillllzzz.

Built
05-02-2006, 01:10 AM
The thing is, Jordanbecool is clearly capable of learning. He just tends to do it publicly. Props for being shameless, bud :thumbup:

To the OP - the reason I overconsume protein is for appetite control. There's more than one reason to eat lots of the stuff. Muscle repair is just one of them.

wheels
05-02-2006, 01:15 AM
i didnt know that overconsuming protien controlled appetite

yay im learning :)

ArchAngel777
05-02-2006, 12:01 PM
Wow, that scarecrow guy is an idiot. I hope he is banned.

Nicoman
05-03-2006, 09:59 PM
I just have a small testimonial. I use to consume about 150 grams of protein a day and I was always hungry. I started reading the boards here and now I consume about 300 grams of protein a day. I am not hungry anymore and some amazing things have started to happen like very thick hair growth and fast nail growth as well. Not to mention good muscular growth. I have gotten my weight down from 260 to 225 and I am lovin life.

I will continue to consume as much protein as I can throughout the day to keep this up.

Thanks to everyone that has posted good information on diet to get me to where I am.

~Nico

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
05-03-2006, 10:02 PM
^^

Um...make sure you're drinking boatloads of water.

smalls
05-03-2006, 11:02 PM
Water is overated. . . grossly.

Scarz, I dont think you saw the post I made in regards to one of your water statements. I was honestly kind of a prick that night but I think you should read it, if you can find it. But, IMO, you really need to get off this water kick you got going. Water is great and all but come on.

Jordanbcool
05-03-2006, 11:57 PM
Water is overated. . . grossly.

Scarz, I dont think you saw the post I made in regards to one of your water statements. I was honestly kind of a prick that night but I think you should read it, if you can find it. But, IMO, you really need to get off this water kick you got going. Water is great and all but come on.

Whats wrong with water? Its an all-around good. Its the most important thing for survival next to oxygen. Need I say more?

-jordan

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
05-04-2006, 12:11 AM
Water is overated. . . grossly.

Scarz, I dont think you saw the post I made in regards to one of your water statements. I was honestly kind of a prick that night but I think you should read it, if you can find it. But, IMO, you really need to get off this water kick you got going. Water is great and all but come on.I don't know what you're getting at. I'm repeating what I learned in class. There are hundreds of studies from science journals, among other things, in the back of my book. I'm not pulling this information from my ass. What part about what I said bothers you?

Jordanbcool
05-04-2006, 12:13 AM
I don't know what you're getting at. I'm repeating what I learned in class. There are hundreds of studies from science journals, among other things, in the back of my book. I'm not pulling this information from my ass. What part about what I said bothers you?

What part could you pull out of your ass? You need more water to handle all the protein your taking........I thought this was widely known.

-jordan

smalls
05-04-2006, 01:08 AM
I don't know what you're getting at. I'm repeating what I learned in class. There are hundreds of studies from science journals, among other things, in the back of my book. I'm not pulling this information from my ass. What part about what I said bothers you?


Just the part where you mention it in every other thread and you say things like "sedentary people need almost 1 gallon and day" and people who exercise need almost 2 or some other garbage like that.

Obviously water is necassary, and it's great. It just gets old when people think because you pick up pieces of iron and eat lots of meat that bad things are going to happen if you dont carry around a jug of water and piss clear every 45 minutes. That's all.

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
05-04-2006, 01:25 AM
Just the part where you mention it in every other thread and you say things like "sedentary people need almost 1 gallon and day" and people who exercise need almost 2 or some other garbage like that.It's 13 cups for males and 9 cups for females. Athletes need more than this. And athletes who train in heat have been shown to lose up to 4 gallons of water, but this is an extreme case from excessive sweating. Still don't know what you're all worked up about.



Obviously water is necassary, and it's great. It just gets old when people think because you pick up pieces of iron and eat lots of meat that bad things are going to happen if you dont carry around a jug of water and piss clear every 45 minutes. That's all.I didn't say bad things are going to happen. You're not going to die, but we are beings made of mostly water and many people don't get enough of it. I'm sure if you actually care about your liquid intake that you're making it a point to stay well hydrated...especially with the need to flush your kidneys from the excess nutrient intake, among other things.

Nicoman
05-04-2006, 01:37 AM
^^

Um...make sure you're drinking boatloads of water.

Oh yes I do....at least 3 gallons a day....I am a fish as my friends call me and I carry my nalgene wherever I go...:nod:

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
05-04-2006, 01:47 AM
3 gallons? o.O You must be pissing like a race horse.

HILL
05-04-2006, 03:19 AM
i do drink a hell of a lot of water but at the moment ive uped it due to using ehpedrine and clenbuterol. im drinking the water mostly to try and control my body temp lol

Nicoman
05-04-2006, 03:35 AM
3 gallons? o.O You must be pissing like a race horse.


That would be an accurate assumption even though I am known to throw them down....that is actually a glass of water I am holding .....:evillaugh

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
05-04-2006, 04:14 AM
That would be an accurate assumption even though I am known to throw them down....that is actually a glass of water I am holding .....:evillaughIt looks more like milk...or Phoenix tap water.

teck
05-04-2006, 06:50 AM
i knock back around 2 gallons a day if i can do it.

but when i started out i read alot about drinking at least a gallon a day.

but i just love water now! got a big half a gallon bottle next to my bed and drink that before i leave the house every morning

Jordanbcool
05-04-2006, 08:21 AM
Drink more. More and more H20. So good for you. Even if you arent a bodybuilder.

It HAS been showed that without proper hydration you can get flu-like symptoms just not being hydrated enough. Feeling groggy, tired etc. has been linked to dehydration. I could babble on for hours about its benifits but its just common sense.

I mean you dont NEED to drink gallons of it a day but the more water the better. Helps prevent kidney stones from all the damned calcium we drink.

-jordan

smalls
05-04-2006, 02:25 PM
You people are funny.

Who are all these poeple not getting enough water? I've never heard of em.

I understand where everyone is coming from, but it just gets gey when people keep overpromoting something that everone already understands. This is a bodybuilding site, when it comes to the general public not being 100% perfectly hydrated at all times, who cares?

And ScarZ, as I stated in another thread, your nutrition class is not a valid source. Post a number of peer reviewed studies that show a sedentary male NEEDS 13 cups of water per day. (and how does this number change depending on his diet etc)

That's where my whole beefs comes from. In a number of threads you have stated the water NEEDS of individuals. Well, needs for what exactly? And does diet come into play (hint: yes)

I really dont think water intake is going to make or break anyones progress who has the intelligence to log into this website. If you can run a computer you probably understand how to hydrate yourself.

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
05-04-2006, 02:44 PM
And ScarZ, as I stated in another thread, your nutrition class is not a valid source. Post a number of peer reviewed studies that show a sedentary male NEEDS 13 cups of water per day. (and how does this number change depending on his diet etc)There's many peer reviewed studies in the back of this book. Yes, the book is a valid source.

It says:


Because individual needs vary, adequate hydration can be maintained over a wide range of fluid intakes...[like you said, it's not the same for everyone]

...given a normal diet and moderate environmental conditions, men need about 13 cups of fluid from beverages and drinking water, and women need about 9 cups. This amount of fluid provides about 80 percent of the day's need for water. Most of the rest is provided by the water consumed in foods. Nearly all foods contain some water: water constitutes up to 95 percent of the volume of most fruits and vegetables, and at least 50 percent of many meats and cheeses. A small percentage of the day's fluid is generated in the tissues as energy-yielding nutrients in foods release water as a product of chemical breakdown.

And then it goes on to say:


Sweating increases water needs. Especially when performing physical work outdoors in hot weather [this is on the more exteme side of things], people can lose two to four gallons of fluid in a day. An athlete training in the heat can sweat out more than half a gallon of fluid each hour [again, an extreme case, but basically sweating while working out increases the need for water]. The importance of maintaining hydration for athletes exercising in the heat cannot be overemphasized [though what we're looking for is water loss inside a cooled gym, but sweating still occurs, nonetheless].And then it goes on to talk about how to properly stay hydrated while running, weightlifting, etc..

There are many sources cited, but unfortunately for this section, only books and peer-reviewed scientific journals are listed, not websites.

Jordanbcool
05-04-2006, 02:55 PM
You people are funny.

Who are all these poeple not getting enough water? I've never heard of em.

I understand where everyone is coming from, but it just gets gey when people keep overpromoting something that everone already understands. This is a bodybuilding site, when it comes to the general public not being 100% perfectly hydrated at all times, who cares?

And ScarZ, as I stated in another thread, your nutrition class is not a valid source. Post a number of peer reviewed studies that show a sedentary male NEEDS 13 cups of water per day. (and how does this number change depending on his diet etc)

That's where my whole beefs comes from. In a number of threads you have stated the water NEEDS of individuals. Well, needs for what exactly? And does diet come into play (hint: yes)

I really dont think water intake is going to make or break anyones progress who has the intelligence to log into this website. If you can run a computer you probably understand how to hydrate yourself.

He was just being cautionary. Nothing at all wrong with that.

-jordan

Alex.V
05-04-2006, 08:55 PM
There's a difference between cautionary and extreme. Most people are not adequately hydrated, true. But 2-3 gallons a day of water for an individual living in a temperate climate, working out in an indoors gym maybe 4 days a week, and possibly running outside on occasion is ridiculous.

13 cups a day is 3 liters of fluid intake. 4 liters of water, maybe 5, is usually plenty for weightlifters and bodybuilders in my experience (and based on the data I've seen regarding fluid loss through exercise.)

Too much water is also completely unnecessary. The electrolyte imbalances you can cause are very real, and while only actually life threatening in extreme cases, will still have some physiological impact early on. 3 gallons a day is simply a waste, and possibly even a hindrance.

cy6ex
05-05-2006, 02:19 AM
You people are funny.

Who are all these poeple not getting enough water? I've never heard of em.

I understand where everyone is coming from, but it just gets gey when people keep overpromoting something that everone already understands. This is a bodybuilding site, when it comes to the general public not being 100% perfectly hydrated at all times, who cares?

And ScarZ, as I stated in another thread, your nutrition class is not a valid source. Post a number of peer reviewed studies that show a sedentary male NEEDS 13 cups of water per day. (and how does this number change depending on his diet etc)

That's where my whole beefs comes from. In a number of threads you have stated the water NEEDS of individuals. Well, needs for what exactly? And does diet come into play (hint: yes)

I really dont think water intake is going to make or break anyones progress who has the intelligence to log into this website. If you can run a computer you probably understand how to hydrate yourself.

You have not idea how relief i am to read this cos i really don't know how anybody can down 1-2 gallons of water on a daily bases let alone 3 to 4.

It makes me feel gulity of no being able to do one. I drink about 3 liters a day and even with this i need to go pee every 30-40 mins. :redface:

It can be a pain in the butt sometimes.

smalls
05-05-2006, 11:58 AM
There's many peer reviewed studies in the back of this book. Yes, the book is a valid source.

It says:



And then it goes on to say:

And then it goes on to talk about how to properly stay hydrated while running, weightlifting, etc..

There are many sources cited, but unfortunately for this section, only books and peer-reviewed scientific journals are listed, not websites.


Go ahead and find the peer reviewed studies that show sedentary people need 13 cups, i'm sure it's in the back of the book. But more importantly you still havent explained to me what the NEED is, if it's a good book it should go over this right. What does your book go on to say will happen if someone who lifts weights and eats lots of protein only gets *gasp* 1 gallon a day. (I mean were talking about an athelete here, they must needs tons, what with all the protein they take in)

My main hang up with this issue is this. People seem to think water is magic and more is always better. They also just spit out numbers regardless of individual size differences as well as activities. And everytime someone talks about high protein intake, someone has to throw out the water comment.

Basically the water comments seem to be overstated and yet mostly understood. So basically unnecassary. JMO.

Water tastes good, I like it. But milk is better at helping me hit
PR's.

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
05-05-2006, 01:27 PM
3 gallons a day is simply a waste, and possibly even a hindrance.Yeah...it's quite a bit.



4 liters of water, maybe 5, is usually plenty for weightlifters and bodybuilders in my experience (and based on the data I've seen regarding fluid loss through exercise.)There's 3.78 liters in a gallon, so that's quite a bit of water.



What does your book go on to say will happen if someone who lifts weights and eats lots of protein only gets *gasp* 1 gallon a day.WTF? A gallon seems fine to me. What are you talking about? What's with the *gasp*? I think you're misunderstanding me.



They also just spit out numbers regardless of individual size differences as well as activities.Perhaps you missed the part about "individual needs vary".


Water tastes good, I like it. But milk is better at helping me hit
PR's.Um...Ok? I never said anything against that. Milk is around 80-89% water. Of course you can stay hydrated and meet your needs with milk.


But 2-3 gallons a day of water for an individual living in a temperate climate, working out in an indoors gym maybe 4 days a week, and possibly running outside on occasion is ridiculous.That was for people training in heat and sweating profusely, not normal individuals working out inside a gym. If you're running a marathon or something, then the need would obviously be higher. But they need to not drink straight water when doing this, because that can jack up their electrolyte balance. Something like Gatorade would be a better idea (or some other sports drink).



Too much water is also completely unnecessary. The electrolyte imbalances you can cause are very real, and while only actually life threatening in extreme cases, will still have some physiological impact early on. 3 gallons a day is simply a waste, and possibly even a hindrance.I never said anything about neglecting electroclytes. That has to be kept in mind because yes, it can cause some very real problems. The body has to keep a balance inside itself. I don't think anyone is drinking gallons of water all day and not eating anything.


I think a gallon or so (of LIQUIDS...doesn't have to be all water) is appropriate for avid weightlifters. And you agree with me there, Belial.

Bikkstah
05-05-2006, 02:14 PM
I drink about 5 liters a day, including the 16oz of water in my 3-4 shakes

MantiXX
05-05-2006, 02:26 PM
Over the years I've personally met people that drank a few glasses of liquid a day to my old boss who literally was drinking water ALL the time. I told him to get checked for diabetes...LOL.... We had to stop at EVERY rest stop on a road trip (5 hours) and he would take a leak, and BUY ANOTHER BOTTLE OF WATER...:omg: He would literally have it finished by the time we hit the highway again (and then complain in a short while that he had to pee...LOL)...

Personally I think its an individual thing. My 120 lb wife doesn't require the same as me (210 lbs) just on size alone.

Also the foods you eat do affect your thirst levels (salt anyone?...LOL)...

Its too hard to say, but I probably haven't had 3 gallons of liquid in the last week...LOL.. and I feel awesome... Everyone's different...

I've always just said, if you're thirsty, drink... Simple.. (I know, this may mean you're already dehydrated, but I'm 39 and never had any problems yet, so it seems to be working for me).. And besides, I really DONT LIKE to drink a ton of water... Now that new chocolate protein powder with some 2% milk.. (drool...... I could down a gallon of that....

(steps down off of soapbox....

Peace out...

Jordanbcool
05-05-2006, 03:21 PM
Ok guys I think we all can agree that water is important for everyone including bodybuilders.

There's also a difference between being well hydrated and drinking excessive amounts of water. I dont know if there are any health problems linked to over-consumption of water but its just common sense.

Really drink as much as you want, just be well hydrated. I dont like it when people argue over such things as water consumption. I've NEVER heard of anyone having any health problems from too much water. I've also never heard of someone drinking 5+ gallons of water a day. Really I dont think its anything for any of us to argue about. Just drink more water if your piss is dark yellow, when you feel thirsty or after excersize and you'll be fine. No need for all the technical stuff. Please no one get angry at my post, im just trying to get everyone to calm down. We all have the same obsession so lets kick back and drink a cold one.

-jordan

Slim Schaedle
05-05-2006, 04:02 PM
Ok guys I think we all can agree that water is important for everyone including bodybuilders.

There's also a difference between being well hydrated and drinking excessive amounts of water. I dont know if there are any health problems linked to over-consumption of water but its just common sense.

Really drink as much as you want, just be well hydrated. I dont like it when people argue over such things as water consumption. I've NEVER heard of anyone having any health problems from too much water. I've also never heard of someone drinking 5+ gallons of water a day. Really I dont think its anything for any of us to argue about. Just drink more water if your piss is dark yellow, when you feel thirsty or after excersize and you'll be fine. No need for all the technical stuff. Please no one get angry at my post, im just trying to get everyone to calm down. We all have the same obsession so lets kick back and drink a cold one.

-jordan

A kid died in basic training in San Antonio due to hyperhydration right before I got there. (Spetember, 1999)

At least that's what they blamed it on.

The military would never cover something up, especially instructor negligence or abuse.

Jordanbcool
05-05-2006, 04:04 PM
A kid died in basic training in San Antonio due to hyperhydration right before I got there. (Spetember, 1999)

At least that's what they blamed it on.

The military would never cover something up, especially instructor negligence or abuse.

I doubt it was that. I think it was more like heat stroke. It gets pretty hot even in september.

Plus like I said. Use common sense. No need to debate forever on this topic.

-jordan

Plus do you know how hard it would be to prove that, he died of drinking to much water? Its not after you die water stays in your body for indefinate amounts of time.

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
05-05-2006, 04:17 PM
I doubt it was that. I think it was more like heat stroke. It gets pretty hot even in september.If he was hyperhydrated, why would he get heat stroke?



Plus do you know how hard it would be to prove that, he died of drinking to much water?Do you think they just left his dead body to dry out before examining him?

Jordanbcool
05-05-2006, 04:18 PM
If he was hyperhydrated, why would he get heat stroke?


Do you think they just left his dead body to dry out before examining him?

My point was that maybe he was NOT hyperhydrated.

Are you naive enough to think they did an autopsy at the moment of death?

-jordan

Bikkstah
05-05-2006, 04:26 PM
A kid died in basic training in San Antonio due to hyperhydration right before I got there. (Spetember, 1999)

At least that's what they blamed it on.

The military would never cover something up, especially instructor negligence or abuse.



Ayup, too much water flushes your body of electrolytes and nutrients and can hurt you, or I guess in this case, drink you.

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
05-05-2006, 04:30 PM
My point was that maybe he was NOT hyperhydrated.

Are you naive enough to think they did an autopsy at the moment of death?

-jordanWhat kind of assumed question is that? I was just trying to be obnoxious. :thumbup:

Jordanbcool
05-05-2006, 04:37 PM
Ayup, too much water flushes your body of electrolytes and nutrients and can hurt you, or I guess in this case, drink you.

The amount of water this kid would have had to drink would have to be considerable. Hence I doubt thats what he died of. Unless he drank an entire pool of water. Your body loooooves its H20 and it would take ALOT of water to harm yourself let alone even DIE from it.

-jordan

Plus hes in basic. Its not like hes not sweating his butt off. Which would make him have to drink even MORE water. Plus when your going through basic training would this kid even have time to sit around guzzling water? "Well you dont have to guzzle it, its water" Uh yea ya do. To die from it this kid would have had to force himself to drink past feeling full. And if that were the case. You could clean windows with his piss ;)

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
05-05-2006, 05:06 PM
It doesn't have to be an insane amount of water. If you drank a gallon of water in a half hour, you could put yourself at a serious risk.

DoUgL@S
05-05-2006, 05:15 PM
It doesn't have to be an insane amount of water. If you drank a gallon of water in a half hour, you could put yourself at a serious risk.

Please ellaborate and give some sort of proof. I drank 1 gallon of water in 30 minutes numerous times, and have had no ill effects. Sometimes your just thirsty.

Jordanbcool
05-05-2006, 06:49 PM
Please ellaborate and give some sort of proof. I drank 1 gallon of water in 30 minutes numerous times, and have had no ill effects. Sometimes your just thirsty.

Likewise.

I still stand that if this guy even died from drinking to much water (which I doubt)

Even after running his ass off from basic. (I mean its not like they are relaxing having their feet rubbed while getting blowjobs from nurses.)

While having access to ALOT of water (atleast a couple of gallons)

Which would probably be hard to obtain since hes in san antonio going though basic (yes water is not really in short supply but they dont hand out buckets of water so mr. dumbass can drown in it)

He would still have to drank 5+ gallons. To have any ill effects.

To me it just dosent make any sense that this person would have died from hyperhydration.

-jordan

Bikkstah
05-05-2006, 07:19 PM
Have you been to Basic Combat Training?

Slim Schaedle
05-05-2006, 07:38 PM
My sarcasm was meant to indicate that there is no way he died from hyperhydration.

It would be impossible to drink enough water to induce that condition during the activity he was participating in (loooong ruck march) The water wasn't even accessible.

Bikkstah
05-05-2006, 07:49 PM
Um, we had a truck following us the whole time on EVERY ruck march to refill our 2QT Canteens and 100oz Camelbaks.

Slim Schaedle
05-05-2006, 07:52 PM
Alright, alright....he would have had to walk almost directly beside the water buffalo and almost constantly refill his supply.

cy6ex
05-05-2006, 07:54 PM
A gallon in 30mins. :bow: I could hardly finish half a gallon in an afternoon. I guess it depends on whether you are working indoors or outdoors.

Bikkstah
05-05-2006, 08:13 PM
Alright, alright....he would have had to walk almost directly beside the water buffalo and almost constantly refill his supply.

You say that because you're here on a bodybuilding board and I assume in fairly healthy physical shape. Sign up and head on down to Fort Benning and watch the out of shape people struggle for everything they're worth. Not only do they drink too much water, they drink it too quickly. I'm suprised more recruits don't die of shock than hyperhydration. We stopped ruck marches a lot because of people passing out. Then there's the *******s that don't drink enough water and we have to PT because they get caught with full Canteens or get caught pissing yellow.


It's easy to berate them for hyperhydration when you're a healthy individual suited to physical activity. It's easier to do when you've never been to BCT. Today's Army (and I assume every other branch) goes to great lengths to ensure our safety. We're not standing in the sun PTing all day. We do it at 4am. We're out of the sun most of the day unless we're doing a special activity. It's easy to drink too much water when you're forced to drink 10QTs a day on a day where you're in a classroom all day.

Slim Schaedle
05-05-2006, 08:22 PM
You say that because you're here on a bodybuilding board and I assume in fairly healthy physical shape. Sign up and head on down to Fort Benning and watch the out of shape people struggle for everything they're worth. Not only do they drink too much water, they drink it too quickly. I'm suprised more recruits don't die of shock than hyperhydration. We stopped ruck marches a lot because of people passing out. Then there's the *******s that don't drink enough water and we have to PT because they get caught with full Canteens or get caught pissing yellow.


It's easy to berate them for hyperhydration when you're a healthy individual suited to physical activity. It's easier to do when you've never been to BCT. Today's Army (and I assume every other branch) goes to great lengths to ensure our safety. We're not standing in the sun PTing all day. We do it at 4am. We're out of the sun most of the day unless we're doing a special activity. It's easy to drink too much water when you're forced to drink 10QTs a day on a day where you're in a classroom all day.

I signed up.

I did my time.

I experienced some very unpleasant things.

I got honorably discharged.


Your experience was probably quite different from mine, and I am speaking and giving opinion according to my experience.

I also stand by what I said earlier about accessibilty. My basic training was almost 7 years ago so keep that in mind in terms of changes made to ensure safety.

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
05-05-2006, 08:23 PM
Please ellaborate and give some sort of proof. I drank 1 gallon of water in 30 minutes numerous times, and have had no ill effects. Sometimes your just thirsty.There was a kid who drank like one or two gallons of water in a very short period of time. It was for an initiation to get into a college fraternity. I believe he died.

smalls
05-06-2006, 02:57 AM
There are a number of cases each year in which people die of hyperhydration. It's obviously quite difficult and is usually the result of someone else forcing the issue (we recently had a case of parents "punishing" a child by forcing them to drink water, killing the child, smart parents I tell ya)

But that's neither here nor there. My initial point was that most people arent going to get dehyrdrated to the point that it will negatively effect them, much like they wont get hyperhydrated to an excessive point. Water is just overated and I wanted to state that, that's all.

Scarz, I will agree with you the a gallon of liquids will be sufficient for most people. I'm sure most of us here get plenty more than that without even trying.

Saggas
05-06-2006, 03:38 AM
see my friends used to try drinking 4 bottles of water in a row ( 4 x 600ml)
and on the fourth they would vomit as your body rejected the water. Why wouldn't this happen to the other people? Or have they gone beyond the vomit stage?

RedSpikeyThing
05-06-2006, 07:35 PM
There was a kid who drank like one or two gallons of water in a very short period of time. It was for an initiation to get into a college fraternity. I believe he died.

Sure it was water?

Its scary how many people die as a part of frat initiaion (IMO more than 0 is too many) and it is usually not from drinking water.

Also, was there an article on that? I'd like to see the headline.

Jordanbcool
05-06-2006, 08:58 PM
Sure it was water?

Its scary how many people die as a part of frat initiaion (IMO more than 0 is too many) and it is usually not from drinking water.

Also, was there an article on that? I'd like to see the headline.

EXACTLY. Most of these posts are total speculation. Just because they drink alot of water and die does NOT mean the water is what killed them. I am very skeptical until I see an actual newspaper headline or link. Until then I will always tell people to drink as much water as they can get their hands on. You dont need to be a bodybuilder or brain surgeon to know that water is good for you. Until know I've never even heard of such a thing as "hyperhydration". I'm not saying that its impossible or that you guys made it up or anything because i've heard of stranger things happening to people then dieing from too much water. I just think it would be VERY hard for someone to die from drinking too much water. In fact im seriously thinking about drinking a few gallons of water in an hour or even a day and get back to you guys on what happens.

-jordan

betastas
05-06-2006, 09:55 PM
EXACTLY. Most of these posts are total speculation. Just because they drink alot of water and die does NOT mean the water is what killed them. I am very skeptical until I see an actual newspaper headline or link. Until then I will always tell people to drink as much water as they can get their hands on. You dont need to be a bodybuilder or brain surgeon to know that water is good for you. Until know I've never even heard of such a thing as "hyperhydration". I'm not saying that its impossible or that you guys made it up or anything because i've heard of stranger things happening to people then dieing from too much water. I just think it would be VERY hard for someone to die from drinking too much water. In fact im seriously thinking about drinking a few gallons of water in an hour or even a day and get back to you guys on what happens.

-jordan



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperhydration





In a much-publicized case of fraternity hazing, four members of the Chi Tau House at California State University, Chico pled guilty to forcing 21-year-old student Matthew Carrington to drink excessive amounts of water while performing calisthenics in a frigid basement as part of initiation rites on the 2nd of February 2005[2]. He collapsed and died of heart failure due to water intoxication.

Other fatalities due to water intoxication include Leah Betts [3], Anna Wood [4], 2002 Boston Marathon competitor Cynthia Lucero [5]. New Zealand race-walker Craig Barrett collapsed during the last kilometer of the 50km walk in the 1998 Commonwealth Games in a non-fatal case of water intoxication.

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
05-06-2006, 11:23 PM
Thanks, betastas.

motoko013
05-07-2006, 12:33 AM
heh, i learned a lot of things about protein and water consumption....and the thread was about protein shakes....go figure

arguments like this is what i love about WBB, everybody learns, and it's still civil

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
05-07-2006, 12:36 AM
arguments like this is what i love about WBB, everybody learns, and it's still civil:thumbup:

Alex.V
05-07-2006, 09:24 AM
arguments like this is what i love about WBB, everybody learns, and it's still civil


Shut up, I hate you.

Jordanbcool
05-07-2006, 04:05 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperhydration

Good post.

-jordan

betastas
05-07-2006, 07:03 PM
Good post.

-jordan


Thanks, I try.

When I don't drink enough water, my kidneys feel different in a worse way. Feels like there is more pressure in them.