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upstech
04-30-2006, 08:30 PM
I am not really sure if this question is in the right place or not but feel free to move it if it is. I am finally going to stop putting off getting back into llifting starting tomorrow. I have a new schedule at work and it feels like a great time to jump back into things. I have a question though. I will be getting up first thing and will be doing cardio and lifting back to back. What kind of nutrition should I consider to support that. I was thinking about doing 45 min of low intestity cardio first and then roll into lifting with a shake or something in between or just go straight through and grab a shake at the end. I dont have the time to split the two up due to my work schedule. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
04-30-2006, 08:35 PM
Never do cardio before lifting. Do lifting followed by cardio. And what are your goals? Are you trying to put on muscle mass? Are you trying to lose weight?

Junin
04-30-2006, 11:29 PM
Why would you want to 'never' do cardio before lifting?

I'm not sure I see exactly what the point that such an unsubstantiated, yet authoritative, statement might have.

DumbellDude
04-30-2006, 11:38 PM
Never do cardio before lifting.

i might sound authoritative too... but i totaly agree with Scarz on that, the point is that you don't want to deplete yourself from energy before you start your lifts. that is if you want to reach the full potential of your lifts and growth.

i personaly have my cardio and lifting days separately because i dont' have the luxury of wasting enormous amounts of energy.

yeah, what are your goals?

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
05-01-2006, 01:10 AM
Why would you want to 'never' do cardio before lifting?

I'm not sure I see exactly what the point that such an unsubstantiated, yet authoritative, statement might have.You need glycogen stores for lifting. If you do cardio before, you will deplete your energy stores before ever hitting the weights. You want to use up your glycogen stores before doing cardio so that when you're doing cardio, your body will have to turn to your fat stores for energy. I don't know why you chose to use the word "unsubstantiated" here.

Either do cardio after a lifting session or separate cardio and lifting at different times of the day. Or save lifting and cardio for different days.

Junin
05-01-2006, 09:56 AM
If 30 minutes of low-intensity cardio uses enough of your glycogen to seriously affect your lifts, I would be surprised.

For something to substantiated, you need to give some substance to your claim. You did not in your original post, and your follow-up post is sheer theory-craft. Much more useful to the original poster would be some advice on how he should eat if he follows his plan the way he would like to.

seK
05-01-2006, 10:04 AM
It depends on your goals, if you are looking to maximize muscle gain I would save the cardio until after. If you are looking to increase cardiovascular endurance I may do it before.
As for nutrition I myself don't like to eat too much before doing any type of cardio, so I would probably go with the shake after cardio and before my lifts, then follow it all with a good meal.

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
05-01-2006, 05:04 PM
If 30 minutes of low-intensity cardio uses enough of your glycogen to seriously affect your lifts, I would be surprised.

For something to substantiated, you need to give some substance to your claim. You did not in your original post, and your follow-up post is sheer theory-craft. Much more useful to the original poster would be some advice on how he should eat if he follows his plan the way he would like to.Depends on your goals. I wouldn't be able to lift heavy for 45 minutes to an hour after doing cardio for 30 minutes.

Slim Schaedle
05-01-2006, 07:16 PM
If 30 minutes of low-intensity cardio uses enough of your glycogen to seriously affect your lifts, I would be surprised.
Then, be surprised.



less glycogen = less conversion to glucose = less ATP = less energy = possible crappy workout.


(without consideration of fatty acid oxidation, etc. for energy)

Optimum08
05-01-2006, 07:19 PM
Then, be surprised.



less glycogen = less conversion to glucose = less ATP = less energy = possible crappy workout.


(without consideration of fatty acid oxidation, etc. for energy)

:withstupi...so science is surprising eh Junin?

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
05-01-2006, 07:28 PM
Then, be surprised.



less glycogen = less conversion to glucose = less ATP = less energy = possible crappy workout.


(without consideration of fatty acid oxidation, etc. for energy)Stupid science...pffft. ;)

Built
05-01-2006, 07:30 PM
Cardio before lifting burns fewer calories, and fewer fat calories.
----------
I posted this a while ago:

Hit the Gym before You Hit the Road (http://www.menshealth.com/cda/article.do?site=MensHealth&channel=fitness&category=muscle.building&topic=total.body&conitem=b10a99edbbbd201099edbbbd2010cfe793cd____&page=3)

...the question of whether you should do aerobic exercise before or after weight lifting. To find an answer, we hooked a fit guy to equipment that measures calorie expenditure and reveals how many of those calories come from fat. We had him do identical combinations of aerobics and strength training on 2 different days, once doing aerobics first, once hitting the weights first. The weight workout consisted of 15 sets; the aerobic workout was 20 minutes. Here are the results.



Weights, then aerobics

Total calories burned 371

Calories of fat burned 107



Aerobics, then weights

Total calories burned 346

Calories of fat burned 66
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Do it after, or better yet, on a separate day.

Slim Schaedle
05-01-2006, 07:54 PM
and your follow-up post is sheer theory-craft.
Principles of glycogen utilization for ATP synthesis is not exactly theory, at this point in time.

Junin
05-01-2006, 08:54 PM
Then, be surprised.



less glycogen = less conversion to glucose = less ATP = less energy = possible crappy workout.


(without consideration of fatty acid oxidation, etc. for energy)


Not to be intentionally contrary, but that formula depends on the amount of glycogen expended. Are we to assume that 30 minutes of low-intensity cardio will really deplete THAT much glycogen? I've gone 45 minutes of medium-intensity cardio before and blasted out PR's right after. It will also depend on the amount of glycogen you have in your muscles in the first place. If you're coming into the workout after a depletion phase of UD2, you'd certainly be in a different position than if you came in after a chinese buffet.

I'm not arguing that glycogen has no effect on your workout. I'm arguing that low enough intensity cardio may have negligible effect.

Slim Schaedle
05-01-2006, 09:31 PM
Not to be intentionally contrary, but that formula depends on the amount of glycogen expended. Are we to assume that 30 minutes of low-intensity cardio will really deplete THAT much glycogen? I've gone 45 minutes of medium-intensity cardio before and blasted out PR's right after. It will also depend on the amount of glycogen you have in your muscles in the first place. If you're coming into the workout after a depletion phase of UD2, you'd certainly be in a different position than if you came in after a chinese buffet.

I'm not arguing that glycogen has no effect on your workout. I'm arguing that low enough intensity cardio may have negligible effect.
I was going to point all that out but decided against it to see if anyone would mention it.

I commend you for that.

I agree that "low intensity" might be a relative term and my formula depends on MANY other factors. In short, your workout will be better from the standpoint of higher energy charge, when doing cardio after weights.


I'm not sure how you claim this is theory, as pointed out in your answer to Scarz's post, unless you were specifically refering to what I just mentioned above about degree of glycogen storage, etc etc.

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
05-01-2006, 11:31 PM
I never even mentioned low-intensity cardio. I had high-instensity cardio on my mind when I posted. I still think it would be best to reserve energy for weightlifting and cardio after...or to separate the two activities completely.