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crazyskater52
05-10-2006, 08:52 PM
I was thinking, well I had pizza today...and it has a ton of calories and carbs and stuff, but why is it so bad? If its just cheese, bread, and sauce? If you clean grease with a napkin would it be okay? What is so bad about pizza?

mikey4402
05-10-2006, 08:56 PM
i eat pizza all the time. but im not the cleanest bulker on the forum. i would think homemade pizza would be better for you since you can decide what to put on it

i know king kermail (sp) eats like two large pizza in a sitting when he is bulking. but i also read that in a muscle mag so take it with a grain of salt haha

cphafner
05-10-2006, 08:57 PM
the cheese is most likely going to be very high fat

JaCelica2k
05-10-2006, 09:11 PM
As long as you can eat it and stay within your calories/fat grams/carbohydrates/protein for the day go ahead.

crazyskater52
05-10-2006, 09:38 PM
Oh okay, sounds good! Cuz I know for football everyone always said it was a very bad idea to eat it before practice...is that cuz of the carbs?

Alex.V
05-10-2006, 09:45 PM
It's white bread and milkfat. Pretty worthless nutritionally. Neither cheese nor plain white bread are necessarily something anybody needs in their diet.

Doesn't mean it isn't tasty.

Jordanbcool
05-10-2006, 11:05 PM
No. Pizza is very good for you.

Now what TYPE of pizza is what you have to concern yourself with. Do you go to pizza hut or make your own home-made pizza?

-jordan

Just think about it....

Tomato sauce (not the paste crap)
Lowfat cheese (or even goats cheese)
Onions
Green peppers
Lean meat (dosent really matter what kind)
Whole wheat dough

Sounds good to me.

crazyskater52
05-10-2006, 11:37 PM
Well I went to pizzahut regretfully, I'd like to make my own but i dont know how, any recipe?

getfit
05-11-2006, 02:55 AM
Well I went to pizzahut regretfully, I'd like to make my own but i dont know how, any recipe?
http://www.bellybytes.com/recipes/pizza.shtml

crazyskater52
05-11-2006, 08:17 AM
Oh wow, okay thanks! Have you tried any of them? How'd they come out for you which one was ur fav?

getfit
05-11-2006, 08:23 AM
I've made the whole wheat vegetable one i liked it, came out great.

TechMetalMan
05-11-2006, 08:52 AM
Yeah I would recommend homemade.

Quite simply- even a hamburger and "fries" can be good for you- but not the one's from McDonald's. It is all about the ingredients you put into it- put bad ingredients in then it is well...bad. But if you exchange things for good ingredients than it can turn out quite healthy.

crazyskater52
05-11-2006, 09:09 AM
Sounds good, and are the ingredients in the link you gave me healthy? Should I make my own fries as well? Or the ones you buy in supermarket in frozen section, are those okay?

Jordanbcool
05-11-2006, 09:14 AM
Quite simply- even a hamburger and "fries" can be good for you- but not the one's from McDonald's. It is all about the ingredients you put into it- put bad ingredients in then it is well...bad. But if you exchange things for good ingredients than it can turn out quite healthy.

Couldnt have said it better myself.

-jordan

getfit
05-11-2006, 09:29 AM
Sounds good, and are the ingredients in the link you gave me healthy? Should I make my own fries as well? Or the ones you buy in supermarket in frozen section, are those okay?
they are yes,i make my own fries or if i'm very lazy i'll buy organic frozen fries

JaCelica2k
05-11-2006, 09:30 AM
Sounds good, and are the ingredients in the link you gave me healthy? Should I make my own fries as well? Or the ones you buy in supermarket in frozen section, are those okay?

If you want fries, slice up potatoes and fry them in EV Olive Oil. Still not the best for you though.....nothing fried really is.

Bob
05-11-2006, 09:39 AM
Fries?? Try sweet potatos or yams sliced up and baked crispy with an olive oil spray.. instead of frying.

Pizza - making your own is killer.. whole wheat.. fresh ingrediants.. mushrooms, extra cheese, peppers, pineapples... and... pepperoni.. as long as you nuke it between paper towel sheets first to drain all the grease.. leaving crisy, tasty pepperoni...

getfit
05-11-2006, 09:41 AM
Fries?? Try sweet potatos or yams sliced up and baked crispy with an olive oil spray.. instead of frying.

Pizza - making your own is killer.. whole wheat.. fresh ingrediants.. mushrooms, extra cheese, peppers, pineapples... and... pepperoni.. as long as you nuke it between paper towel sheets first to drain all the grease.. leaving crisy, tasty pepperoni...
oh yes, that as well, yummmy! the organic one s i buy already have olive oil on them and oregano they're superb, but i like your idea

Holto
05-11-2006, 10:19 AM
Yeah I would recommend homemade.

Quite simply- even a hamburger and "fries" can be good for you- but not the one's from McDonald's. It is all about the ingredients you put into it- put bad ingredients in then it is well...bad. But if you exchange things for good ingredients than it can turn out quite healthy.

My hamburger:

Ground Sirloin with Mozzarella cheese on whole wheat.

My Fries:

Organic Russets cooked in butter on a cookie sheet.



If you want fries, slice up potatoes and fry them in EV Olive Oil. Still not the best for you though.....nothing fried really is.

Olive oil is actually a terrible idea. It's not heat stable.

betastas
05-11-2006, 10:33 AM
Use coconut oil or butter. I'm going to make some sweet potato fries in coconut oil later. Remember that saturated fat tends to be the most heat stable.

Bob
05-11-2006, 11:59 AM
that's why you baked them

Alex.V
05-11-2006, 12:19 PM
Tomato sauce (not the paste crap)
Lowfat cheese (or even goats cheese)
Onions
Green peppers
Lean meat (dosent really matter what kind)
Whole wheat dough

Sounds good to me.

Real tomato paste is simply tomato sauce without extra water.

Anyway, so what you have here is fat, wheat bread, and some meat. Basically a very cheesy sandwich. Again, not necessarily something you need in your diet.

I was just answering the question, which was "what is so bad about pizza?", not "How can I change the ingredients on a terrible meal to make it a mediocre meal?". :)

Holto
05-11-2006, 12:22 PM
that's why you baked them

Just to be clear Olive Oil is not suitable for baking either.

It should be used cold only.

Unless you have a recipe that calls for baking below 300 degrees which would be very unusual.

Jordanbcool
05-11-2006, 06:00 PM
Real tomato paste is simply tomato sauce without extra water.

Anyway, so what you have here is fat, wheat bread, and some meat. Basically a very cheesy sandwich. Again, not necessarily something you need in your diet.

I was just answering the question, which was "what is so bad about pizza?", not "How can I change the ingredients on a terrible meal to make it a mediocre meal?". :)

I fail to see how wheat bread, tomato sauce, lean meats and lowfat cheese is bad for you. Just because things taste good dosent make them bad.

Its been stated before that pretty much every food has its place in a diet. The ingrediants are whats the key. Every single "bad" food can be traced back to a better more organic and un-processed "good" version of itself. Before the era of fast food chains wrecked that.

-jordan

RedSpikeyThing
05-11-2006, 06:06 PM
Real tomato paste is simply tomato sauce without extra water.

Anyway, so what you have here is fat, wheat bread, and some meat. Basically a very cheesy sandwich. Again, not necessarily something you need in your diet.

I was just answering the question, which was "what is so bad about pizza?", not "How can I change the ingredients on a terrible meal to make it a mediocre meal?". :)

If you used organic tomato paste, you would essentially be eating tomatoes. So the only thing you see wrong is the cheese? Put less on...

TechMetalMan
05-12-2006, 09:14 AM
Real tomato paste is simply tomato sauce without extra water.

Anyway, so what you have here is fat, wheat bread, and some meat. Basically a very cheesy sandwich. Again, not necessarily something you need in your diet.

I was just answering the question, which was "what is so bad about pizza?", not "How can I change the ingredients on a terrible meal to make it a mediocre meal?". :)

Because we all know that lowfat dairy has no place in one's diet, wheat bread has too many carbs and meat has too much cholesterol and fat.

We should simply eat soy protein isolate and our fruits and veggies. :moon:

Holto
05-12-2006, 12:38 PM
Gentleman, B didn't say at any point it's bad for you.


It's white bread and milkfat. Pretty worthless nutritionally.

Just think of chugging back 1000-2000 cals of pizza and then think of the following.

Chicken
Oats
Almonds

Imagine the nutrient content of 1000-2000 cals of the above.


----------------------------------------------------------


I make some crazy pizza creations now.

1) Mad Dog Pizza Roll

I roll the dough out thin like a pie crust.

Thinly spread some sauce on the entire surface.

Grate the cheese with the smallest holes. On a standard grater it's on the side. Spread the cheese evenly.

(This method allows one to use very little cheese. I do this to keep the cals down while cutting.)

Now put some more sauce on in little droplets. When we spread it thin we don't put enough on to leave soom room to do this.

Roll and smoke....I mean bake. 6 minutes/side. I then broil for a few minutes but I doubt I need to.

It's like a calzone but the outside cooks better because it's so thin.

.

Progress
05-12-2006, 12:58 PM
Anyone ever try this stuff? They had it an Arnold, apparently. I like it with a little turkey pepperoni and/or Franks. Not as good as restaurant pizza, but for fat free and high protein. It's good!

http://www.pizzafree.com/

Jordanbcool
05-12-2006, 01:22 PM
Gentleman, B didn't say at any point it's bad for you.



Just think of chugging back 1000-2000 cals of pizza and then think of the following.

Chicken
Oats
Almonds

Imagine the nutrient content of 1000-2000 cals of the above.


----------------------------------------------------------


I make some crazy pizza creations now.

1) Mad Dog Pizza Roll

I roll the dough out thin like a pie crust.

Thinly spread some sauce on the entire surface.

Grate the cheese with the smallest holes. On a standard grater it's on the side. Spread the cheese evenly.

(This method allows one to use very little cheese. I do this to keep the cals down while cutting.)

Now put some more sauce on in little droplets. When we spread it thin we don't put enough on to leave soom room to do this.

Roll and smoke....I mean bake. 6 minutes/side. I then broil for a few minutes but I doubt I need to.

It's like a calzone but the outside cooks better because it's so thin.

.

He implied that it was bad for you. I dont know what pizza you eat or how much but my pizza eating only amounts to 500 calories tops. Its silly to say that its so bad for you when its not or even that it lacks "nutritional value". Food is not bad for you. You can even make the argument that butter and mayo are good for you. Your body needs fats carbs and protein all in its respective doses. The chemicals, preservatives and steroids that we as human beings put into food is what makes it bad, not the actual food itself. Just control what you make the pizza out of and its perfectly healthy.

-jordan

And please lets not bring up the "carbs are not needed" argument. Maybe they arent needed for survival but we all know how down we feel without some good carbs (on cuts per se). We as bodybuilders need even MORE carbs then most people, so they are actually pretty important. Eating a few slices of the pizza I talked about will give you loads of energy in the weight room.

EDIT: Just read the bottom of your post. Sounds good lol. I thought it was your sig so I ignored it at first :P

betastas
05-12-2006, 01:59 PM
A lack of human-added chemicals and hormones to food isn't what we're talking about.

A "good" food has vitamins and/or minerals and/or anti-oxidants and/or other nutritional properties that make it a desireable choice.

White flour, regular tomato paste/sauce and regular cheese lack many nutrients and tend to fall in the category of empty calories. Even low fat cheese (in terms of mono/poly/sat balance), low sodium tomato sauce and whole wheat flour still aren't the best choices, although they are better. The body does gain energy from digestion and utilization of these products, but it misses out on the above properties that contribute to good health, recovery and muscle growth.

In almonds, oats and chicken you obtain many desireable properties including vitamins, minerals, higher fibre, non-vegetable source monosaturated fats and complete protein. I would enjoy seeing a study that showed the difference between eating low mineral, vitamin, etc. foods versus that of high content. Remember that there is more to bodybuilding and healthy living than protein, carbohydrates and lipids.

EDIT: I don't think I even need to touch on pepperoni, salami, etc.

Jordanbcool
05-12-2006, 03:22 PM
A lack of human-added chemicals and hormones to food isn't what we're talking about.

A "good" food has vitamins and/or minerals and/or anti-oxidants and/or other nutritional properties that make it a desireable choice.

White flour, regular tomato paste/sauce and regular cheese lack many nutrients and tend to fall in the category of empty calories. Even low fat cheese (in terms of mono/poly/sat balance), low sodium tomato sauce and whole wheat flour still aren't the best choices, although they are better. The body does gain energy from digestion and utilization of these products, but it misses out on the above properties that contribute to good health, recovery and muscle growth.

In almonds, oats and chicken you obtain many desireable properties including vitamins, minerals, higher fibre, non-vegetable source monosaturated fats and complete protein. I would enjoy seeing a study that showed the difference between eating low mineral, vitamin, etc. foods versus that of high content. Remember that there is more to bodybuilding and healthy living than protein, carbohydrates and lipids.

EDIT: I don't think I even need to touch on pepperoni, salami, etc.

Psh.

No one likes to eat the absolute best foods. If that was the case, the multivitamin wouldnt have a purpose. There will always be foods that are "better". I think pizza though is one of those better foods. It has a great combo of all the macros (except alcohol of course :p). There are so many "vital" minerals and nutrients its almost impossible to get them on your own through diet (unless you have access to the best of the best). And I still stand that pretty much every food in existance has a better version of itself that humans have just f*cked up. Nature is never bad, just go for organic ingrediants and sensible choices (lean meat instead of regular for example).

-jordan

betastas
05-12-2006, 06:08 PM
Actually, it is pretty easy to eat almost everything you "need" in a diet from healthy (even not-so-healthy) choices that multivitamins are optional. There is also a substantial amount of contraversy about the qualtiy of vitamin A, D and E that you get in multivitamins. Most MVs fail to digest properly and are excreted as it stands. There is a reason MVs exist - people think they need them to obtain all their vitamins and minerals. They're cheap to manufacture, easy to market, and once the campany gets you popping them daily, they know you're going to keep buying them. Eat some fruits and vegetables (the right ones) and you'll be fine. It isn't hard at all and most of them are delicious.
There really aren't that many "vital" nutrients, but the vast majority of them are easily obtainable in non-processed foods such as fruits, vegetables, nuts, legumes and pulses.

I am not saying you can't make a healthy pizza - I am telling you that synthetic vitamins in MV are not the solution.You CAN make a healthier pizza, but I'll bet you that it has vegetables on it. :)


How does every food in existence have a better version? I'm afraid I don't understand.

Jordanbcool
05-12-2006, 06:56 PM
Actually, it is pretty easy to eat almost everything you "need" in a diet from healthy (even not-so-healthy) choices that multivitamins are optional. There is also a substantial amount of contraversy about the qualtiy of vitamin A, D and E that you get in multivitamins. Most MVs fail to digest properly and are excreted as it stands. There is a reason MVs exist - people think they need them to obtain all their vitamins and minerals. They're cheap to manufacture, easy to market, and once the campany gets you popping them daily, they know you're going to keep buying them. Eat some fruits and vegetables (the right ones) and you'll be fine. It isn't hard at all and most of them are delicious.
There really aren't that many "vital" nutrients, but the vast majority of them are easily obtainable in non-processed foods such as fruits, vegetables, nuts, legumes and pulses.

I am not saying you can't make a healthy pizza - I am telling you that synthetic vitamins in MV are not the solution.You CAN make a healthier pizza, but I'll bet you that it has vegetables on it. :)


How does every food in existence have a better version? I'm afraid I don't understand.

It really depends what TYPE of multi you get. For example. Centrum or w/e apparently has a TON of perservatives. Multi's are good for busy people like myself. People who dont have time to worry if they can get everything in at a given day. And of course theres going to be people that question multi's and the companys that make them. They have a right too. That dosent mean that all of them are bad or that you shouldnt take them. I think we both can agree that eating a variety of different foods (fruits, veggies, wheat bread, meats etc.) are a good way to get all the nutrients you need.

Yes a good pizza will have plenty of veggies on it. Veggies are an all around good :lurk:

Scroll up a few posts. A GREAT example is french fries. Baked; french fries arent that bad. They are just....cooked potatoes or baked freedom fries.

Haha who the hell started that? Must be anti-frenchies. Heh. I really dont like the french. The only war they've ever won by themselves is the french revolution. And they were fighting the french!!! ;)

That tagent was un-needed but made me laugh my ass off.

-jordan

betastas
05-12-2006, 07:30 PM
The freedom fries came when the French opposed the US invasion of Iraq. Pretty petty.


Agreed with some foods being COOKED better.

Lastly - The french have won many wars pre- French Revolution. Of course, modern wars since then got all mucked up.

Jordanbcool
05-12-2006, 10:57 PM
The freedom fries came when the French opposed the US invasion of Iraq. Pretty petty.


Agreed with some foods being COOKED better.

Lastly - The french have won many wars pre- French Revolution. Of course, modern wars since then got all mucked up.

Heh. The last great war they had was when napolian was raging through europe. Since then....and before then...they were...eh. The french and indian war...lost....etc. etc. lol

-jordan

Bam
05-13-2006, 12:37 AM
Has anyone seen the personal pizza's at subway? Im thinking about trying one but im in love with my turkey sandwich right now!

Alex.V
05-13-2006, 12:25 PM
Because we all know that lowfat dairy has no place in one's diet, wheat bread has too many carbs and meat has too much cholesterol and fat.

We should simply eat soy protein isolate and our fruits and veggies. :moon:


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Oh my lord. I would be the LAST person to recommend soy protein isolate, fruits, OR vegetables.

The question was, why is pizza bad. The question was not "how do I make it better". Wheat bread is an inferior option to other sources of carbohydrates, in fact it's pathetic how small the difference is between "wheat bread" and "white bread". If you can make it into a dough that doesn't fall apart when you pound it into a crust, then chances are it's one or two steps removed from white bread in terms of lack of nutrients, high glycemic index, etc. etc. Did I say it has no place in one's diet? No. I simply said it's not something people need more of. If you want your carbs, there are better places to get them.

Lowfat cheese has few saving graces. The fat tends to be of kinds that people already get plenty of, and while the protein content is good, it's not fantastic as a percentage of calories.

Lowfat meats are good, certainly, but plopping them down with those other ingredients makes them a drop in the bucket. So yes, Holto emphasized the important part. A typical pizza is empty calories. Higher glycemic index than most carb sources, and the protein to saturated fat ratio tends to be pretty abysmal.

What amazes me is how absurdly awful everybody's reading comprehension seems to be. I never once stated that one should not eat pizza. I maintain a bodyfat percentage of about 7%, with a heavy portion of my calories coming from Burger King triple whoppers with cheese.

I never said "pizza is bad for you". I would never say any food is bad for you. I answered his question, which was essentially asking why the general consensus is why pizza is "bad".

And your attempts to make it "healthy"? Sure. One can say a cheeseburger is unhealthy. Your reply is if it's made with whole grain bread, ground london broil, and fat free cheese substitute, then grilled on a foreman, it can be healthy. Yes. True. You can improve the macros on any meal. But that doesn't mean in general that a cheeseburger is the ideal food. And the argument that "if the cheese is bad, put less on"... well, next time you order from Domino's try this:

1 extra large pan pizza, hold the dough, hold the cheese, extra chicken.

...I didn't think so.

So please.... never, ever put words in my mouth. If you wish to misinterpret what I say, go ahead. But chances are, if you decide to argue with me and choose your points from shoddy reading comprehension, you will likely lose. I said:


Anyway, so what you have here is fat, wheat bread, and some meat. Basically a very cheesy sandwich. Again, not necessarily something you need in your diet.

I did not say:


TEH PIZZA IS BADZZ!!! STAY AWAY FROM TEH PIZZSA!!!

If you wish to claim that "not necessarily something you need" means "avoid at all costs", then I believe you truly have a role in politics.

In conclusion: bite me.

Metro
05-13-2006, 12:36 PM
I usually save pizza as my cheat meal on Sunday. I used to buy a medium hamburger/jalapeno (thin crust) and 10 hot wings from the Pizza Hut. As I've become more and more conscious of what I eat on my cheat meals...I've started to buy the DiGorno's Whole Wheat Harvest Veggie Pizza. Not bad tasting at all..a few slices of that with some form of lean protein makes a great cheat combo for me. Not necesarily a cheat meal, but I always consider a single sitting where I consume >100g of complex carbs pure heaven & cheating.

whiteman90909
05-16-2006, 02:24 PM
yeah back to the way to make pizza yourself-
ive always done this by experimenting and it always turns out really well:
buy pre made dough at trader joes , costco, safeway... whatever
buy a jar of pizza sauce
buy some mozerella and whatever toppings you want

put it all together and bake it at whatever temp you think ou need untill the dough turns light brown

the other option that i really enjoy is putting it on the grill, then flipping it over and putting the sauce and toppings on and grilling it a little while longer.
^^its really good, actually^^

Jordanbcool
05-16-2006, 02:48 PM
I still think its a fine food choice for anyone to eat. Nothing has been said to convince me otherwise.

Of course theres gonna be something better but to get all three macros in a nice tidy slice you cant get much better then pizza. Maybe individually there are "better" food choices but its not like you can throw chicken, peanut butter and potatoes in a blender to get the ideal foodstuff.

Just making a point that it depends more on the ingrediants then the actual food.

-jordan

Hockey66
05-16-2006, 08:17 PM
Stats!
-5'11", 235, 8% bf

-455/690/635 bench/deadlift/squat (tested)
-460/695/640 bench/deadlift/squat (predicted)

In conclusion: listen to Belial.

Slim Schaedle
05-16-2006, 08:20 PM
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Oh my lord. I would be the LAST person to recommend soy protein isolate, fruits, OR vegetables.

The question was, why is pizza bad. The question was not "how do I make it better". Wheat bread is an inferior option to other sources of carbohydrates, in fact it's pathetic how small the difference is between "wheat bread" and "white bread". If you can make it into a dough that doesn't fall apart when you pound it into a crust, then chances are it's one or two steps removed from white bread in terms of lack of nutrients, high glycemic index, etc. etc. Did I say it has no place in one's diet? No. I simply said it's not something people need more of. If you want your carbs, there are better places to get them.

Lowfat cheese has few saving graces. The fat tends to be of kinds that people already get plenty of, and while the protein content is good, it's not fantastic as a percentage of calories.

Lowfat meats are good, certainly, but plopping them down with those other ingredients makes them a drop in the bucket. So yes, Holto emphasized the important part. A typical pizza is empty calories. Higher glycemic index than most carb sources, and the protein to saturated fat ratio tends to be pretty abysmal.

What amazes me is how absurdly awful everybody's reading comprehension seems to be. I never once stated that one should not eat pizza. I maintain a bodyfat percentage of about 7%, with a heavy portion of my calories coming from Burger King triple whoppers with cheese.

I never said "pizza is bad for you". I would never say any food is bad for you. I answered his question, which was essentially asking why the general consensus is why pizza is "bad".

And your attempts to make it "healthy"? Sure. One can say a cheeseburger is unhealthy. Your reply is if it's made with whole grain bread, ground london broil, and fat free cheese substitute, then grilled on a foreman, it can be healthy. Yes. True. You can improve the macros on any meal. But that doesn't mean in general that a cheeseburger is the ideal food. And the argument that "if the cheese is bad, put less on"... well, next time you order from Domino's try this:

1 extra large pan pizza, hold the dough, hold the cheese, extra chicken.

...I didn't think so.

So please.... never, ever put words in my mouth. If you wish to misinterpret what I say, go ahead. But chances are, if you decide to argue with me and choose your points from shoddy reading comprehension, you will likely lose. I said:



I did not say:



If you wish to claim that "not necessarily something you need" means "avoid at all costs", then I believe you truly have a role in politics.

In conclusion: bite me.
I saw this post coming even before getting to the second page.




I'm going to have to agree on the reading comp issue.

Jordanbcool
05-16-2006, 08:32 PM
The second sentence gave me a little chuckle.

Also just glancing at the length of the post put a smile on my face. :p

-jordan

MagnaSephiroth
07-06-2006, 04:50 PM
Sorry to bring up an old thread, but has anyone tried the PizzaFree?