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ihaveapigyo
05-23-2006, 02:30 AM
i wonder why some people don't eat fruits when cutting? i mean, do they prevent you from losing weight or make you lose muscle or something?

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
05-23-2006, 03:07 AM
Those people are just very confused. It's ok to eat fruit on a cut.

ihaveapigyo
05-23-2006, 03:29 AM
woohoo hopefully i won't have the runs anymore after eating some fruit

:omg:

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
05-23-2006, 03:35 AM
You should gradually up your fiber intake to at least 25 grams a day and drink plenty of liquids. That'll keep you from getting the runs. Also, you really shouldn't eat fruits on an empty stomach...at least eat fruits with something else.

jampsifit
05-23-2006, 12:39 PM
i think in this situation is all about timing.....

so for fruits i'd say the best time would be post workout.....or maybe pre to refill your muscle glycogen stores.

TheGimp
05-23-2006, 12:53 PM
i think in this situation is all about timing.....

so for fruits i'd say the best time would be post workout.....or maybe pre to refill your muscle glycogen stores.

How does that work when fructose is metabolised by the liver, refilling hepatic glycogen levels before spilling over into fat stores?

ddegroff
05-23-2006, 01:34 PM
On a low calorie diet sometimes leaves little room for fruit (really a horrible excuse not to eat fruit). I find that I don't eat it often, and it goes bad before I can eat it. Its not like the fruit is bad in any way, some people just dont eat it.

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
05-23-2006, 04:15 PM
If you're not eating much fruit, you should make it a point to eat more.

Built
05-23-2006, 04:21 PM
Veggies are generally more nutrient dense than fruit. Brightly coloured fruits (such as berries) are typically higher in antioxidants and lower in carbs/calories. I eat berries whenever possible.

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
05-23-2006, 04:37 PM
Eat more of both then. Berries are awesome.

Vapour Trails
05-24-2006, 03:29 PM
I've read it's fine until you reached about 50g of fructose, then your liver will start storing fat. Now a single apple may have 20-30g of carbs, but that is a mixture of different sugars. The pure fructose content is pretty low (maybe 10-15g?) and it really shouldn't worry you.

SpecialK
05-24-2006, 06:05 PM
I like berries, but they only come in tiny little packages that cost like $3 each. I wish they would sell them by the lb., I would buy a ton of raspberries.

Built
05-24-2006, 06:11 PM
Buy 'em frozen.

getfit
05-24-2006, 06:13 PM
i buy most of my berries fresh, got today 3 box's of strawberries and 3 box's of blueberries for $10

Progress
05-24-2006, 06:15 PM
Yum! Blackberries are SO good!

gator
05-24-2006, 08:48 PM
Apparently Greapefruit is very good on a cut, is it something called nargin (spelling suck but it something like that) that helps aid in fat loss, I hate grapefuit and dont eat it on my cut so I dont know how well it works.

smalls
05-24-2006, 08:55 PM
On a low calorie diet sometimes leaves little room for fruit (really a horrible excuse not to eat fruit). I find that I don't eat it often, and it goes bad before I can eat it. Its not like the fruit is bad in any way, some people just dont eat it.

Agreed.


If you're not eating much fruit, you should make it a point to eat more.


I know I shouldnt even start it, but WHY?

Built
05-24-2006, 08:55 PM
Naringenin.

Interesting.

It appears naringenin is a flavonol that slows the normal metabolism of various drugs. Because this includes the metabolism of caffeine, it is postulated to be helpful in fat loss because it prolongs caffeine's thermogenic effect.

I have NO idea if this has been tested. Lazy waves of apathy have taken me over ... maybe some kind soul will mozy over to pubmed for a gander?

superhombre2k
05-24-2006, 09:00 PM
I get frozen berries by the 10lb bag and use 1 cup in my protein shakes when I'm home.

Slim Schaedle
05-24-2006, 09:33 PM
i wonder why some people don't eat fruits when cutting? i mean, do they prevent you from losing weight or make you lose muscle or something?
http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=78149

Slim Schaedle
05-24-2006, 09:37 PM
i think in this situation is all about timing.....

so for fruits i'd say the best time would be post workout.....or maybe pre to refill your muscle glycogen stores.
Nope.

Holto
05-24-2006, 10:45 PM
Apparently Greapefruit is very good on a cut, is it something called nargin (spelling suck but it something like that) that helps aid in fat loss, I hate grapefuit and dont eat it on my cut so I dont know how well it works.

If it doesn't make you burn more calories. It won't aid in fat loss.

Built
05-24-2006, 11:34 PM
If it doesn't make you burn more calories. It won't aid in fat loss.
Not ENTIRELY true. Partioning is part of the equation.

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
05-24-2006, 11:37 PM
I know I shouldnt even start it, but WHY?Vitamins...minerals...they taste good...

Veggies are good too.

SpecialK
05-24-2006, 11:46 PM
I get frozen berries by the 10lb bag and use 1 cup in my protein shakes when I'm home.

Where do you get them in a 10 lb bag? Just a regular grocery store?

smalls
05-24-2006, 11:49 PM
Vitamins...minerals...they taste good...

Veggies are good too.



k, but what if i'm at 3000% RDA of those vit's and minerals? Does your blanket statement still apply.

Seriously I dont mean to be as big of a prick as I come off, but I hear enough of this stuff from my mom. If you make blanket statements like that you have to give a reason, back it up with something. There is pretty much nothing in fruits that can't be attained elsewhere.

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
05-24-2006, 11:57 PM
k, but what if i'm at 3000% RDA of those vit's and minerals? Does your blanket statement still apply.You can stop now. Get over yourself. If you're getting sufficient nutrients in your diet, it really doesn't matter. It was a suggestion, not a blanket statement. Thanks for the assumption though.


Seriously I dont mean to be as big of a prick as I come offThen chill out.


but I hear enough of this stuff from my mom. If you make blanket statements like that you have to give a reason, back it up with something. There is pretty much nothing in fruits that can't be attained elsewhere.Yeah. You pretty much just added all that in yourself. You created an entire paragraph from a small sentence I wrote. Congrats on even more assumptions. I didn't imply any of that. Relax, bro. I'll try and be less VAGUE next time.

smalls
05-25-2006, 01:18 AM
I'm not even sure what getting over myself would accomplish as this is not a pissing match. No one is thinking they are better than another, which is usually why the phrase "get over yourself" is used.

You are the king of stating rediculous bull**** that everyone should do. Yet you give no reasons and no consequences of following or not following these suggestions. You continue to be called out on such rediculouslness and then instead of answering the questions you are asked you get all butthurt and defensive.

Stop spouting BS you heard from a nutrition professor and think (for yourself) before you type.

And just to clarify, "fruits are good" would be vague. "If your only eating small amounts of fruit you should eat more" is pretty much the very definition of a blanket statement.

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
05-25-2006, 01:37 AM
You're overexaggerating and you need to chill out. It really isn't productive. Now you're making blanket statements regarding my posts. It's silly and nobody is getting anywhere. Drop it. And quit following me around and hassling me. If you have a concern, PM me. Don't drag pointless arguments into threads.


Stop spouting BS you heard from a nutrition professor and think (for yourself) before you type.I don't spout BS that I heard from some random guy. And if I do post BS, I learn and move on when I am called out on. And I post sources all the time. You get annoyed when somebody says something that differs with your beliefs. I couldn't care less one way or the other, but when you keep following me around and criticizing me, I don't find that in any way constructive. And this seems to be a recent thing because I don't remember you being this way. I don't know why you randomly just chose one day to hate everything that I say. I don't understand it and never will, but I wish it would end. I have nothing against you, but it seems you're going to be on this endless crusade to attack me. Whatever. You can continue being pissed off for no reason and I will carry on learning from other people and debating and questioning my own beliefs to coincide with new thought-provoking information. Whatever you want to continue doing is up to you. I'm done arguing and I won't do it again unless it is an intelligent debate with some sort of educational outcome.

smalls
05-25-2006, 02:06 AM
Wow.

1. I'm chill, I'm always chill.
2. This is only the second time I can remember really disagreeing with a point of yours, at least to the point where I posted that disagreement. I'm sure there are others but I can only remember the water thing.
3. I dont dislike you and I certainly dont follow you around. I dislike some of your statements and sometimes state that disaproval. I check the boards at random, just like most everyone else.

When someone says everyone should do certain things, I question it. It's not that big a deal really. If it bothers you so much maybe you should stop doing it. Night bro.

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
05-25-2006, 02:49 AM
Well let's just move on then. Peace, dude. :thumbup:

Slim Schaedle
05-25-2006, 06:46 AM
Scarz, no offense my man, but I kinda had the same feeling when I read that initial post as well. Maybe it was the wording, or just how I took it since I eat absolutely no fruit and completely fulfil lmy nutrient requirements...or, I am just sick of this food guide pyramid/RDA crap I hear in classes.

dissipate
05-25-2006, 06:54 AM
i'm on a cut with Zone macronutrients and my carbs come only from fruit and veg on non-workout days. even if you're worried about the sugar in fruit, i don't think it'd have much effect especially if you're eating it with protein and fat.

Holto
05-25-2006, 09:03 AM
Not ENTIRELY true. Partioning is part of the equation.

I'm not convinced by the partitioning argument.

My perspective is this.

If it doesen't make you burn more calories or increase protein systhesis it doesen't result in more fat loss.

Directing calories into LBM doesn't guarantee more weight loss or more anabolism.

Directing callories away from adipose tissue does not guarantee more fat loss. It just means less fat is depositied to be remobilized later.

For me it comes down to clinical data.

I have never seen a trial where any group lost more fat than control at equal cals.

If we had a fish oil study where one group lost more fat it would be big news.

That said I feel and perform WAY better when I'm paying attention to partitioning. For me it's a matter of eating clean and controlling my resting insulin levels.

.

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
05-25-2006, 12:58 PM
Scarz, no offense my man, but I kinda had the same feeling when I read that initial post as well. Maybe it was the wording, or just how I took it since I eat absolutely no fruit and completely fulfil lmy nutrient requirements...or, I am just sick of this food guide pyramid/RDA crap I hear in classes.It's probably the food guide thing that set you off. I think my post reaked of food pyramid, lol. My bad. :thumbup: After re-reading it, the post doesn't sound very informative. I guess I fell victim to the short answer syndrome. Plus I'm lazy sometimes.

Built
05-25-2006, 01:30 PM
I'm not convinced by the partitioning argument.

My perspective is this.

If it doesen't make you burn more calories or increase protein systhesis it doesen't result in more fat loss.

Careful there: running burns more calories than sitting around, but it makes you burn muscle as well as fat.
If we didn't care about partitioning, we wouldn't be lifting heavy through our cuts.




Directing calories into LBM doesn't guarantee more weight loss or more anabolism.
No it doesn't. But it protects LBM. Isn't that how anabolics work?

Vapour Trails
05-25-2006, 03:28 PM
I have never seen a trial where any group lost more fat than control at equal cals.




There are studies that show that.

The results were posted on this board. Two groups ate the same quantity of calories, but one group ate low fat and another low carb. The low carb group lost more fat. When a food scientist determines how much energy is in a food they simply burn it and measure the heat released. You might find that a cup of sugar has the same quantity of calories as 4 oz of steak, but the sugar is much more likely to cause fat gain when ingested. The type of macronutrient consumed is important because it determines what will become of it in the body.

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
05-25-2006, 03:50 PM
The results were posted on this board. Two groups ate the same quantity of calories, but one group ate low fat and another low carb. The low carb group lost more fat.That is silly because people have differing metabolisms. If you put them all on the same exact food and the same exact calories you'd get different results as well.

Holto
05-25-2006, 10:06 PM
Vapour Trails:

You are referring to weight loss.

I'm talking about fat loss.

Show me a study where they actually measured bodyfat and I will be blown away.

BTW this is like the third or fourth time I've asked you for this.

.

Holto
05-25-2006, 10:11 PM
Careful there: running burns more calories than sitting around, but it makes you burn muscle as well as fat.
If we didn't care about partitioning, we wouldn't be lifting heavy through our cuts.

I should clarify.

Substances like Sesamin or Naringenin can't make you lose more fat without increasing energy expenditure or anabolism.

Running can result in fat loss but it meets one of my criteria. It increases energy spent.

.

Built
05-25-2006, 10:33 PM
I'm given to understand that EC is somewhat protective of LBM - which would imply that it makes you lose more fat at a given calorie level. I'm sure the difference is NOT remarkable, but I seem to recall reading that there is a statistically significant effect.

I've got a cat in my lap, I just did legs, and I'm waaaay too lazy to look this up.

Maybe some kind sould will find me a link? I believe it had to do with the systemic insulin resistance induced by the stack (so it's good on a cut, lousy on a bulk)

Andre3000
05-25-2006, 11:36 PM
Banana-king of fruits.