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View Full Version : CID (Cyclical Isocaloric Diet).. ?



MonStar1023
01-23-2002, 09:05 AM
I am wondering what do you guys think of a CID..? Its bascially 33/33/33 protein, carbs, and fat. And then refeeds which are basically like carb-ups from what I understand.

Blood&Iron is employing this type of diet in his detailed training jounral. I am curious what you all think of it?

:cool::cool:

Avatar
01-23-2002, 10:07 AM
for what, bulking or cutting?

MonStar1023
03-15-2002, 09:12 PM
Avatar-
Kind of both bro, bulking and cutting. From what I understand a CID is excellent at really optimizing your body's natural anabolic hormones.

:cool::cool:

MonStar1023
03-15-2002, 10:57 PM
My macronutrient ratios would breakdown into something like this.

Isocaloric Days
2500 calories, 200g protein, 200g carbs, 90g fat

Refeed Days
4000 calories, 200g protein, 750g carbs, 20g fat

:thumbup::thumbup:

MonStar1023
03-15-2002, 11:22 PM
The problem is I cant decide if this would be a good way to do it. Here's a sample 2 weeks of when the refeeds would be.

Su- train ... REFEED DAY
M- train
T- off
W- train ... REFEED DAY
Th- train
F- off
S- off
Su- train
M- train ... REFEED DAY
T- off
W- train
Th- train ... REFEED DAY
F- off
S- off

:confused::confused:

... I cant decide if two 4000 calorie days per week is a good idea or not.

MarshallPenn
03-16-2002, 12:09 AM
Monstar - What is the purpose of this diet? Why not just eat maintenance or slightly above every day? I don't get the refeed concept.

MonStar1023
03-16-2002, 07:52 AM
MarshallPenn-
A CID basically optimizes the fat-burning horomones in your body, especially leptin. If you are unfamiliar with leptin I would recommend checking out the Leptin articles written by Par Deus, just click the leptin article in the left column, here (http://www.avantlabs.com/issue3/big_mfr_issue_3.htm), here (http://www.avantlabs.com/issue4/big_mfr_issue_4.htm), and here (http://www.avantlabs.com/issue5/big_mfr_issue_5.htm).

:thumbup::thumbup:

Par Deus
03-16-2002, 09:08 AM
Originally posted by MonStar1023
MarshallPenn-
A CID basically optimizes the fat-burning horomones in your body, especially leptin.


To be more accurate, it attempts to optimize leptin as much as possible while losing fat or at least not getting fat. To truly optimize leptin, you should just eat your way to 25% body fat, but that defeats our purpose.

Also, leptin does not just help burn fat, it is responsible for signally the nutritional state of the body, so it also has a great deal of control over anabolic hormones, so it helps with muscle as well.

MonStar1023
03-16-2002, 09:16 AM
Thats what I meant to say... hehe damn Par Deus knows his sh*t!

:eek::eek:

BrianReagan
03-16-2002, 04:13 PM
is this kind of like abcde dieting?

Avatar
03-16-2002, 08:23 PM
its nothing like ABCDE diet.

MonStar1023
03-16-2002, 10:04 PM
Avatar-
I wouldnt take it that far. I mean its nothing like ABCDE dieting in the idea that 2 weeks under maintenance and then 2 weeks over, but it is the concept of calorie cycling yes.

:cool::cool:

MonStar1023
03-16-2002, 10:04 PM
Par Deus-
What an isocaloric diet out of curiosity? Why not a low-carb diet? Why not a ketogenic diet?

:confused::confused:

... Is it just because leptin levels are lowered with lower carbs?

Par Deus
03-17-2002, 09:29 AM
Originally posted by MonStar1023
Par Deus-
What an isocaloric diet out of curiosity? Why not a low-carb diet? Why not a ketogenic diet?

:confused::confused:

... Is it just because leptin levels are lowered with lower carbs?


Yes, it is glucose metabolism that stimulates leptin. You could go higher with the carbs -- I probably do 40/35/25 (c/p/f), but "cyclical isocaloric diet" has a nice ring to it.

MonStar1023
03-17-2002, 12:06 PM
That will happen anyway I think. I am thinking that my ratio will be around 35/45/20 to be honest. Will this cause a problem?

:cool::cool:

MonStar1023
03-17-2002, 07:14 PM
Par Deus-
Would a 30P/40C/30F diet be a really bad idea on the isocaloric NON-refeed days? In other words would it cause any problems with a CID?

:confused::confused:

the doc
03-17-2002, 07:59 PM
monstar, a slight change from one day to the next might matter for contest prep but i doubt if your goals are...

wait what are your goals again???

MonStar1023
03-17-2002, 08:57 PM
Fat-loss, muscular devlopment, etc.

:D:D

the doc
03-17-2002, 09:38 PM
are you specifically trying to lose fat or gain muscle

what are your stats right now?

MonStar1023
03-17-2002, 09:56 PM
5'10", 212 lbs. Probably 15% bf.

:D:D

the doc
03-17-2002, 11:23 PM
are you specifically trying to lose fat or gain muscle

MonStar1023
03-17-2002, 11:25 PM
Lose fat I think. But according to Par Deus and a few other people a CID allows both to occur to an extent.

:cool::cool:

the doc
03-17-2002, 11:32 PM
well i think your cals are a bit high then.

you might be able to lean out a bit whilst maintaining strenth though.

You might try this for about 4 weeks. See what happens and drop the refeed and regular cals by 500 (ie 2500 to 2000 and 4000 to 3500)

also "to an extent" could mean a variety of things. Perhaps for a fat person they will certainly lose fat and gain muscle. However, being at 15% it will be very hard to do both. You might gain strength without actually increasing lean mass (via neuromuscular enhancement) but increasing muscle mass whilst cutting is counterintuitive as you are in caloric deficit.

MonStar1023
03-17-2002, 11:33 PM
Yeah well see how things go. Blood&Iron has experienced some good results with a CID I think. If worst comes to worst Ill go right back to NHE.

:D:D

the doc
03-17-2002, 11:34 PM
damn your fast on a response...lol

MonStar1023
03-17-2002, 11:37 PM
Hehe so are you man! Anyway tomorrow is my refeed day can you check out my journal for me. I outlined my meals roughly. Its going to come out to around 4000 calories, 200g protein, 700g carbs, 40g fat.

:cool::cool:

Blood&Iron
03-18-2002, 10:08 AM
Originally posted by MonStar1023
Hehe so are you man! Anyway tomorrow is my refeed day can you check out my journal for me. I outlined my meals roughly. Its going to come out to around 4000 calories, 200g protein, 700g carbs, 40g fat.

:cool::cool:
Looks like a good breakdown to me. That's around what my refeed usually comes out to, although I usually have a bit more protein and carbs(Not a great deal more, though.)

Severed Ties
03-18-2002, 10:16 AM
Originally posted by the doc
monstar, a slight change from one day to the next might matter for contest prep but i doubt if your goals are...

wait what are your goals again???

Correct Doc, a single refeed day will do next to nothing in terms of reseting diet induced hormone restrictions. Which is why I don't believe CID is very good diet, it just seems it would prolong the period of time it would take you to lose fat because you are going to gain bodyfat on your refeed days, only to spend the next day or two losing that fat.

ST

Blood&Iron
03-18-2002, 10:43 AM
Originally posted by Severed Ties


Correct Doc, a single refeed day will do next to nothing in terms of reseting diet induced hormone restrictions. Which is why I don't believe CID is very good diet, it just seems it would prolong the period of time it would take you to lose fat because you are going to gain bodyfat on your refeed days, only to spend the next day or two losing that fat.

ST
No. Short-term overfeeding will help minimize decreases in leptin levels--though it will continue to drop no matter what. Provided a refeed is kept short--around 24 hours or so--fat gain will be minimal. This is due to the fact that in the short term the body greatly increases the rate of glucose oxidation and thus the extra calories are not stored as adipose tissue. If a refeed exceeds 24 hours, fat gain does become an issue.

MonStar1023
03-18-2002, 12:45 PM
I am not sure sure what my opinion is on this issue. Severed Ties and Par Deus both know their sh*t. I will post my results though with a CID so I will let you all know exactly how I respond to this diet.

:cool::cool:

I am taking around 1800 mg. ALA on refeed days.

MonStar1023
03-18-2002, 12:46 PM
Blood&Iron-
Does 180g protein, 230-240g carbs, and 60-70g fat on my isocaloric days sound okay to you?

:cool::cool:

Blood&Iron
03-18-2002, 01:26 PM
I'm sure it's fine, although I like to keep protein at a minimum of 1g/lb of bodyweight, and the fat seems a little low(And consequently overall calories. They will be ~2310.) Also keep in mind that due to your previous diet, your leptin levels are probably quite low(You were on essentially a no-carb diet and were running, as far as I can tell, a severe caloric deficit.) You might want to have a moderate refeed of a week or so to help restore you leptin levels to normal. I could be wrong here, though.

MonStar1023
03-18-2002, 05:47 PM
Yeah well see how things go. I am down a few lbs. from just yesterday and today was a refeed.. so I dont know.

:cool::cool:

MonStar1023
03-18-2002, 09:45 PM
Feel a little fat after my entire day of refeeding, but I guess that is pretty much expected.

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

the doc
03-18-2002, 09:53 PM
well you should at least be bloated...lol

MonStar1023
03-18-2002, 10:07 PM
the doc-
Believe it or not I really am not all that bloated. Considering that I took in 700g carbs and 25g creatine I am surprised.

:eek::eek:

TFXP-Zeke01
03-18-2002, 10:30 PM
When you say your "refeed" should be 24 hours, do you mean you should eat the whole 24hr's ..... wake up throughout the night just to eat?

MonStar1023
03-18-2002, 10:44 PM
Nah just eat for one day. Like all of your meals are "refeed" meals. Basically mod-protein, high-carbs and low-fat.

:D:D

Prelude
06-17-2002, 12:50 PM
On a CID, do you have to eat equal portions of P/C/F for every meal? What if you, let's say, don't have enough fat or carb at one or two of your meals?

Blood&Iron
06-17-2002, 12:56 PM
Originally posted by Prelude
On a CID, do you have to eat equal portions of P/C/F for every meal? What if you, let's say, don't have enough fat or carb at one or two of your meals?
It's not a big deal. I generally consume the majority of my carbs pre/post workout, with fairly low-carb stuff the rest of day, in an attempt to help maximize the effects of the ephedrine and yohimbine I take(The lipolytic effects of which are blunted by insulin), as well as stay within my allowed caloric intake.

Prelude
06-17-2002, 01:05 PM
So basically, as long as you get as close to 33% and your target kcals before the end of the day is OK? I heard that some people have better success with carb intake of only about 20-25%.

Blood&Iron
06-17-2002, 07:47 PM
Originally posted by Prelude
So basically, as long as you get as close to 33% and your target kcals before the end of the day is OK? I heard that some people have better success with carb intake of only about 20-25%.
Yup, really the macronutrient breakdown is not that vital. More carbs--within reason--is probably better for keeping leptin levels high, but some people do better with a bit lower carbs. Use whatever works. The only really unique aspect to the CID is the concept of having regular refeeds.

Prelude
06-18-2002, 09:46 AM
Do you schedule your refeeds during or before your w/o days? Or whenever you just crave? I'm trying to set it up, I'm thinking 500 kcal less per day and 1000kcal more on refeed days (prolly every 4-5 days). What do you think?

Tru
06-25-2002, 02:36 PM
Would this type of diet be good for a beginner?

the_hall
06-25-2002, 10:54 PM
Originally posted by Tru
Would this type of diet be good for a beginner?

whats your bodyfat?

MonStar
06-25-2002, 10:55 PM
I think this diet is good for anyone / everyone. Excellent diet for gradually dropping bf% and adding some muscle I think.

MS

Holto
06-26-2002, 10:33 PM
I have been on a diet like this for about 5 weeks right now

it's ironic actually

I didn't plan anything in particular I just was went by feel
thinking about bridging into something more restrictive later

200g's protien
225-250'g carbs ( trading carbs for fat on some days)
75-100'g fat

Im refeeding on training days 3x a week

with 75g's carbs postworkout 10:30pm and about 60 extra in the evening

I'm hypothyroid so I can't usually stay on a diet for very long

I'm losing weight on this diet , but my metabolism is still humming
which is rare when I'm below 3000
so I'm hoping to stay on this for a while

5'10 260 @ 27%

you start good threads Monstar:thumbup:

Tru
06-29-2002, 07:33 PM
My BF is 11%-15%... i'm not exactly sure.. I think i'm gonna try this after I bulk for a while...