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highfidelity
06-02-2006, 02:23 PM
I'm 6'4", 216. I've been lifting for a year and a half, but I saw little progress for the first year due to improper nutrition, particularly lack of protein. Lack of protein is still a problem, since I'm somewhat lactose intolerant and therefore need to get my protein with some food.

I'm currently doing WBB1, along with Jiu Jitsu four times a week and five to ten minutes of intense cardio after each workout. (Not HIIT, as the treadmills don't seem to be capable of particularly short intervals without manually increasing and decreasing the speed each time. Yes, sheer laziness on my part.)

Based on Fitday, I put my maintenance at 2000-2200 calories / day. Eating much more than this would imply either cooking myself or going dirty, as I've more or less exhausted the healthy food options on campus. My weight has been fairly steady at 214 on this intake. (varying no more than half a pound over the past week or two)

Right now, I want to get rid of some fat, for two reasons: it's summer, and if I'm going to bulk I don't want to get depressed every time I look in the mirror.

After dropping to 1500 calories for a few days, I ate a little more yesterday and saw my weight go up two pounds, to 216. This seems to be the case whenever I try to lose some weight.

WHY WON'T IT GO DOWN???? :swear:

Eszekial
06-02-2006, 02:32 PM
Unless you have a really ****ty metabolism, i find it hard to believe maintenance is 2200 for you. You are in college? You walk around campus all day? You're 6'4 and 216, your maintenance is probably much closer to 3000.

WBB1 is a good routine, i won't say anything further about it.

What are your current lifts and bf% looking like?

Sounds like you are doing things right other than absurdly low cals.

Are you sure you are not gaining muscle? Even on my restricted cutting diet, i was able to gain 3lbs of Lean Body Mass reletively easily early on.

The only thing I can see is either a) you are lying to yourself about your diet b) your trusting the scale more than the mirror. c)your metab has crashed on your super low calories d) there is something very fundementally wrong about your eating / training habits. If you are doing Wbb1 to a T, than it's probably not the lifting. e) you haven't given yourself nearly enough time. f) thyroid problem (doubtful).

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
06-02-2006, 02:36 PM
Unless you have a really ****ty metabolism, i find it hard to believe maintenance is 2200 for you. You are in college? You walk around campus all day? You're 6'4 and 216, your maintenance is probably much closer to 3000.It's completely dependant upon the individual. It may very well be 2200 for him...but given his size, that doesn't seem right. But again...it's dependant upon the individual.


To the OP: What's your diet like?

highfidelity
06-02-2006, 02:43 PM
Unless you have a really ****ty metabolism, i find it hard to believe maintenance is 2200 for you. You are in college? You walk around campus all day? You're 6'4 and 216, your maintenance is probably much closer to 3000.

Are you sure you are not gaining muscle? Even on my restricted cutting diet, i was able to gain 3lbs of Lean Body Mass reletively easily early on.

The only thing I can see is either a) you are lying to yourself about your diet b) your trusting the scale more than the mirror. c)your metab has crashed on your super low calories d) there is something very fundementally wrong about your eating / training habits. If you are doing Wbb1 to a T, than it's probably not the lifting. e) you haven't given yourself nearly enough time. f) thyroid problem (doubtful).

I go to MIT -- whenever I'm not walking or in the gym or Jiu Jitsu I'm sitting in front of a computer.

I've certainly gained some on WBB1 -- I've put an inch on my arms in the last month and a half or so.

My FitDay: http://www.fitday.com/WebFit/PublicJournals.html?Owner=high%2Dfidelity
Today isn't over yet, try yesterday or some of the past entries for a better perspective.

Jordanbcool
06-02-2006, 02:44 PM
It's completely dependant upon the individual. It may very well be 2200 for him...but given his size, that doesn't seem right. But again...it's dependant upon the individual.


To the OP: What's your diet like?

Scarz I doubt thats his maintanence. I'm 190 and my maintanence was 3300. Seems high but I tested it for two weeks to be positive. I think now though its closer too 3000.

-jordan

highfidelity
06-02-2006, 02:45 PM
It's completely dependant upon the individual. It may very well be 2200 for him...but given his size, that doesn't seem right. But again...it's dependant upon the individual.

Again, I sit in front of the computer a lot, always have.

Eszekial
06-02-2006, 02:46 PM
I go to MIT -- whenever I'm not walking or in the gym or Jiu Jitsu I'm sitting in front of a computer.

I've certainly gained some on WBB1 -- I've put an inch on my arms in the last month and a half or so.

My FitDay: http://www.fitday.com/WebFit/PublicJournals.html?Owner=high%2Dfidelity
Today isn't over yet, try yesterday or some of the past entries for a better perspective.

As always, working on a lot of ****ty assumptions here.

Your eyes and the scale are lying to you.

Patience is your answer.

highfidelity
06-02-2006, 02:50 PM
As always, working on a lot of ****ty assumptions here.

Your eyes and the scale are lying to you.

Patience is your answer.


GRR, that's what I told myself last month...

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
06-02-2006, 02:54 PM
Scarz I doubt thats his maintanence. I'm 190 and my maintanence was 3300. Seems high but I tested it for two weeks to be positive. I think now though its closer too 3000.That has nothing to do with his own experience. Your personal maintenance is irrelevant.



Again, I sit in front of the computer a lot, always have.That might be your problem right there. You need to be more active, aside from working out.


And yes...the patience thing...and dedication.

Eszekial
06-02-2006, 02:58 PM
That might be your problem right there. You need to be more active, aside from working out.
And yes...the patience thing...and dedication.


I'm currently doing WBB1, along with Jiu Jitsu four times a week and five to ten minutes of intense cardio after each workout. (Not HIIT, as the treadmills don't seem to be capable of particularly short intervals without manually increasing and decreasing the speed each time. Yes, sheer laziness on my part.)
Unless he's sub 12%, i think he's doing too much exercise if anything.....

Still think he needs more activity?

Jordanbcool
06-02-2006, 03:01 PM
That has nothing to do with his own experience. Your personal maintenance is irrelevant.


That might be your problem right there. You need to be more active, aside from working out.


And yes...the patience thing...and dedication.

Scarz you cant sit here and tell me that it would vary that much. Hes a big guy, big guys need more calories to exist then smaller guys (even if its fat). So unless hes packing on 30 pounds of water weight 2200 is pretty god damned low for someone his size.

I mean think about it....its a difference almost 1000 calories a day! Thats a huge difference.

Also 1500 calories is close too what I'm cutting on my PSMF! And he has a good 40 pounds on me!

PPS. Damned I'd really like too learn jui jitsui or however you spell it

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
06-02-2006, 03:02 PM
Still think he needs more activity?Then patience and dedication...



Scarz you cant sit here and tell me that it would vary that much. Hes a big guy, big guys need more calories to exist then smaller guys (even if its fat). So unless hes packing on 30 pounds of water weight 2200 is pretty god damned low for someone his size.

I mean think about it....its a difference almost 1000 calories a day! Thats a huge difference.

Also 1500 calories is close too what I'm cutting on my PSMF! And he has a good 40 pounds on me!

PPS. Damned I'd really like too learn jui jitsui or however you spell itAre you done? Thanks. Everyone is different. That was the point. That may be his maintenance and it might not. I said it wasn't impossible. And then you get bent out of shape over something you assumed I meant.



Hes a big guy, big guys need more calories to exist then smaller guysAnd some little guys need to eat 5,000 calories or more to gain weight. And some don't need nearly that much. There are so many variables, Jordan. You can't just give out a number and it expect it to work for everyone because you're a guy of around the same weight or height or whatever. Again...there's a lot of variables that go into the equation.

Jordanbcool
06-02-2006, 03:07 PM
BTW. To the OP you might be retaining alot of water. That happens to me alot. Even though I'm at 10% bodyfat when I bloat my stomach bulges out so far it makes me look like I'm at 16% ATLEAST. Its really annoying.....so when I go swimming I never eat alot beforehand...

-jordan

Eszekial
06-02-2006, 03:15 PM
Started today off with an orea cookie shake and a huge burrito + fries.... Thought i was pregnant.

highfidelity
06-02-2006, 03:18 PM
BTW. To the OP you might be retaining alot of water. That happens to me alot. Even though I'm at 10% bodyfat when I bloat my stomach bulges out so far it makes me look like I'm at 16% ATLEAST. Its really annoying.....so when I go swimming I never eat alot beforehand...

-jordan

Is there anything I can do about this, apart from not eating a lot before activities involving water?

I am somewhat skeptical of this theory, though. Recently, Boston has been extremely hot (90F) and quite humid. It's my understanding that high humidity and heat reduces water retention, hence the practice of sitting in a sauna before weighing-in.

Jordanbcool
06-02-2006, 03:22 PM
Started today off with an orea cookie shake and a huge burrito + fries.... Thought i was pregnant.

ahahahaha....ooo zek. You are NOT alone. My stomach looks like yours for the most part. Are you going too cut or are you bulking now?

Im not really worried about a 6-pack anymore. My shallow 4 pack does the job good.

Eszekial
06-02-2006, 03:25 PM
keeping low carbs, and TEMPORARILY reducing your sodium intake helps you look paper thin. Also, don't think that drinking LESS water will help you look thinner. Drink as much water as you can stomach.

My carbs are always low, so i don' have to change anything, but when i want to get paper thin, i drastically reduce sodium intake for a day or two, which is usually quite high (and saying it's quite high is relative, because for your average inactive joe, they'd be screaming about blood pressure in regards to my sodium intake).

highfidelity
06-02-2006, 03:25 PM
I almost forgot to list supplements, taken in the morning before breakfast:
Centrum multivitamin
200mg green tea extract
2 capsules fish oil (~700mg each)

I also have some calcium / iron (Folgard OS) sent me by my mom, worried that I don't get enough calcium. Would that help?

Jordanbcool
06-02-2006, 03:25 PM
Is there anything I can do about this, apart from not eating a lot before activities involving water?

I am somewhat skeptical of this theory, though. Recently, Boston has been extremely hot (90F) and quite humid. It's my understanding that high humidity and heat reduces water retention, hence the practice of sitting in a sauna before weighing-in.


In short. No theres nothing you can really do about water weight. Yes you can diet blah blah blah but it will come back. I've gotten used too it. Water weight isnt all bad. It makes me feel/look bigger during the day. Which I like. If your really worried about it just dont eat so much salt and you'll be good.

-jordan

Eszekial
06-02-2006, 03:26 PM
ahahahaha....ooo zek. You are NOT alone. My stomach looks like yours for the most part. Are you going too cut or are you bulking now?

Im not really worried about a 6-pack anymore. My shallow 4 pack does the job good.

ribs are showing and small indents on the pack... But still no 6 pack.

Keeping going on the cut.

Heavy refeed and deadlift day to keep the metabolic furnance roaring.

Eszekial
06-02-2006, 03:29 PM
I almost forgot to list supplements, taken in the morning before breakfast:
Centrum multivitamin
200mg green tea extract
2 capsules fish oil (~700mg each)

I also have some calcium / iron (Folgard OS) sent me by my mom, worried that I don't get enough calcium. Would that help?

Perfect....

highfidelity
06-02-2006, 03:33 PM
keeping low carbs, and TEMPORARILY reducing your sodium intake helps you look paper thin. Also, don't think that drinking LESS water will help you look thinner. Drink as much water as you can stomach.

My carbs are always low, so i don' have to change anything, but when i want to get paper thin, i drastically reduce sodium intake for a day or two, which is usually quite high (and saying it's quite high is relative, because for your average inactive joe, they'd be screaming about blood pressure in regards to my sodium intake).

I changed vendors this morning for my egg and cheese bagel (whole wheat, of course), and the new one used real egg (cracked in front of my eyes) and may have added salt. I suspect the usual vendor uses a "Better 'n Eggs" type egg substitute. Is this likely to have added enough salt to retain the extra two pounds of water? (I easily drank that much with breakfast.)

highfidelity
06-02-2006, 03:35 PM
Perfect....

Is that perfect "add the calcium" or perfect "don't bother"?

Eszekial
06-02-2006, 03:38 PM
Is that perfect "add the calcium" or perfect "don't bother"?

Depends on your current calcium consumption :D

2 glasses of skim milk (and no more).

Calcium can actually work against weight loss if you get too much.

Eszekial
06-02-2006, 03:39 PM
I changed vendors this morning for my egg and cheese bagel (whole wheat, of course), and the new one used real egg (cracked in front of my eyes) and may have added salt. I suspect the usual vendor uses a "Better 'n Eggs" type egg substitute. Is this likely to have added enough salt to retain the extra two pounds of water? (I easily drank that much with breakfast.)

This is why i didn't want to say anything about salt consumption.

Don't worry about it, take in as much as you like, only reduce if you need to get naked! And don't reduce for more than 3-4 days.

Jordanbcool
06-02-2006, 03:40 PM
I changed vendors this morning for my egg and cheese bagel (whole wheat, of course), and the new one used real egg (cracked in front of my eyes) and may have added salt. I suspect the usual vendor uses a "Better 'n Eggs" type egg substitute. Is this likely to have added enough salt to retain the extra two pounds of water? (I easily drank that much with breakfast.)

eh. No, but Im just saying throughout the day. Really unless you cut pretty low water weight will make you look pretty damned fat. You can do two things. 1) Accept it and be happy with yourself 2) Cut too very low bodyfat levels (8-9%).

I'm moving towards accepting it. Dosent bother me a whole lot. As long as I look good in a wife beater and when I take off my shirt the whole not having a six pack dosent bother me. I actually think people look better because it makes you seem more bulky while still being pretty ripped elsewhere. It also dosent make you seem as scrawny (i'd rather be fat muscular then skinny ripped you know?).

-jordan

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
06-02-2006, 06:20 PM
I almost forgot to list supplements, taken in the morning before breakfast:
Centrum multivitamin
200mg green tea extract
2 capsules fish oil (~700mg each)

I also have some calcium / iron (Folgard OS) sent me by my mom, worried that I don't get enough calcium. Would that help?Please find another multivitamin that isn't Cetrum. Cetrum is very low quality and the coating is not good for you. Centrum is a low-ranked multi. Everything else you listed is fine.

Davidelmo
06-02-2006, 06:31 PM
I agree that 1500kcal a day sounds way too low for you.

How did you calculate your maintenance cals? It is a pure guess but I would put your maintenance at around 3000kcal. Of course everyone is different but anything less than 2000kcal would be VERY low for a guy your size.

Dont weigh yourself every day. You'll set yourself up for disappointment because of normal daily fluctuations. This can be due to food in your stomach, the amount of fluids in your system, and also the water weight you carry. Some foods do bloat you and will make you carry more water which will disturb you when you have magically gained 3lbs in one day.

Try weighing yourself every 2 weeks - monday morning with an empty stomach and empty bowels is what works best for me.