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def_con_3
06-10-2006, 11:58 PM
Hi. I was wondering if sugar would be a good source of dextrose for post-workout consumption. I just can't seem to find dextrose anywhere nearby except online and the cost of candy alternatives eventually adds up. I know dextrose is just another form of glucose, so what's the difference between the bags of sugar sold everywhere and pure packaged dextrose?

Stackattack
06-11-2006, 12:27 AM
Regular table sugar is sucrose. Sucrose contains both glucose(aka dextrose) and fructose.
Fructose is the devil :) and probably shouldn't be consumed in large amounts.

Spartan936
06-11-2006, 01:56 AM
Why is fructose the devil?

bdd814
06-11-2006, 09:17 AM
Glucose is what you need PWO. Fructose takes awhile for the liver to turn into glucose. PWO you want things that are readily available to avoid catabolism.

Unreal
06-11-2006, 11:14 AM
Search for a fructose post by Slim. He explains it all, and ever has cool pictures.

I don't believe fructose ever gets converted to glucose, but I would have to dig up his thread and read it again.

lifter4life
06-11-2006, 12:18 PM
hit up a home brew store. Pick up a telephone book and go to the brewery section or whatever. You can also goto dex.com

def_con_3
06-12-2006, 09:13 PM
Thanks for the clearup...still trying to find a brewery.

Built
06-12-2006, 09:31 PM
Some grocery stores have a wine-kit aisle. I get mine at SuperStore.

arjun
06-12-2006, 09:51 PM
I don't believe fructose ever gets converted to glucose, but I would have to dig up his thread and read it again.

It does. All carbohydrates get converted into sugar before entering glycolysis, where cellular respiration (metabolism) begins.

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
06-12-2006, 10:59 PM
It does. All carbohydrates get converted into sugar before entering glycolysis, where cellular respiration (metabolism) begins.Sugar is made up of glucose and fructose. Both are basic forms of carbohydrates.

ddegroff
06-12-2006, 11:04 PM
I don't believe fructose ever gets converted to glucose

Thats why it goes to the liver, Fructose needs to be converted to glucose.
The problem is once liver glycogen is full, those fructose turned glucose get turned in fatty acids, then stored as fat.

Thats why fructose can be the devil.

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
06-12-2006, 11:13 PM
1. Fructose has no enzymes, vitamins, and minerals and robs the body of its micronutrient treasures in order to assimilate itself for physiological use.

Fructose browns food more readily (Maillard reaction) than with glucose. This may seem like a good idea, but it is not.

The Maillard reaction, a browning reaction, happens with any sugar. With fructose it happens seven times faster with than glucose, results in a decrease in protein quality and a toxicity of protein in the body.

This is due to the loss of amino acid residues and decreased protein digestibility. Maillard products can inhibit the uptake and metabolism of free amino acids and other nutrients such as zinc and some advanced Maillard products have mutagenic and/or carcinogenic properties. The Maillard reactions between proteins and fructose, glucose, and other sugars may play a role in aging and in some clinical complications of diabetes.

2. Research showed that in subjects that had healthy glucose tolerance and those that had unhealthy glucose tolerance, fructose caused a general increase in both the total serum cholesterol and in the low density lipoproteins (LDL) in most of the subjects. This puts a person at risk for heart disease.

3. Another study showed that the very low density lipoproteins (VLDL) increased without an apparent change in high density lipoproteins (HDL). The VLDL and the LDL should be as low as possible and the HDL should be as high as possible.

4. There is a significant increase in the concentration of uric acid that is dependent on the amount of fructose digested. After glucose no significant change occurs. An increase in uric acid can be an indicator of heart disease.

5. Fructose ingestion in humans results in increases in blood lactic acid, especially in patients with preexisting acidotic conditions such as diabetes, postoperative stress, or uremia. The significance to human health is that extreme elevations cause metabolic acidosis and can result in death.

6. Fructose is absorbed primarily in the jejunum and metabolized in the liver. Fructose is converted to fatty acids by the liver at a greater rate than is glucose. When consumed in excess of dietary glucose, the liver cannot convert all of the excess of fructose in the system and it may be malabsorbed. What escapes conversion and being absorbed into the cells may be thrown out in the urine. Diarrhea can be a consequence.

7. Fructose interacts with oral contraceptives and elevates insulin levels in women on "the pill."

8. Fructose reduced the affinity of insulin for its receptor. This is the first step for glucose to enter a cell and be metabolized. As a result, the body needs to pump out more insulin, to handle the same amount of glucose.

9. Fructose consistently produced higher kidney calcium concentrations than did glucose in a study with rats. Fructose generally induced greater urinary concentrations of phosphorus and magnesium and lowered urinary pH compared with glucose.

The balance of minerals in the body is very important for the function of vitamins, enzymes and other body function. When the minerals are out of the right relationship, the body chemistry suffers. The presence of diarrhea might be the cause of decreased absorption of minerals.

10. Fructose-fed subjects lose minerals. They had higher fecal excretions of iron and magnesium than did subjects fed sucrose. Apparent iron, magnesium, calcium, and zinc balances tended to be more negative during the fructose feeding period as compared to balances during the sucrose feeding period.

11. A study of 25 patients with functional bowel disease showed that pronounced gastrointestinal distress may be provoked by malabsorption of small amounts of fructose.

12. Many times fructose and sorbitol are substituted for glucose in parenteral nutrition (intervenious feeding, IV). This can have severe consequences with people with hereditary fructose intolerance, a congenital disorder affecting one in 21,000. A European doctor declared: "Fructose and sorbitol containing infusion fluids have no further place in our hospital pharmacies."

13. There is significant evidence that high sucrose diets may alter intracellular metabolism, which in turn facilitates accelerated aging through oxidative damage. Scientists found that the rats given fructose had more undesirable cross?linking changes in the collagen of their skin than in the other groups.

These changes are also thought to be markers for aging. The scientists say that it is the fructose molecule in the sucrose, not the glucose, which plays the larger problem.

14. Fructose is not metabolized the same as other sugars. Instead of being converted to glucose which the body uses, it is removed by the liver.

15. Because it is metabolized by the liver, fructose does not cause the pancreas to release insulin the way it normally does. Fructose converts to fat more than any other sugar. This may be one of the reasons Americans continue to get fatter.

Fructose raises serum triglycerides significantly. As a left-handed sugar, fructose digestion is very low. For complete internal conversion of fructose into glucose and acetates, it must rob ATP energy stores from the liver.

16. Fructose inhibits copper metabolism. A deficiency in copper leads to bone fragility, anemia, defects of the connective tissue, arteries, and bone, infertility, heart arrhythmias, high cholesterol levels, heart attacks, and an inability to control blood sugar levels.http://www.mercola.com/2002/jan/5/fructose.htm

arjun
06-13-2006, 12:34 AM
Sugar is made up of glucose and fructose. Both are basic forms of carbohydrates.

My bad. I meant glucose, not sugar. (All carbohydrates get converted into glucose before entering glycolysis, where cellular respiration (metabolism) begins)

arjun
06-13-2006, 12:51 AM
14. Fructose is not metabolized the same as other sugars. Instead of being converted to glucose which the body uses, it is removed by the liver.

This isn't really accurate. The fructose you eat is ultimately metabolized the same way as other sugars. It does go through the liver, but that is not part of the metabolic system. And it isn't "removed" by the liver, it is converted into glucose.


1. Fructose has no enzymes, vitamins, and minerals and robs the body of its micronutrient treasures in order to assimilate itself for physiological use.

Fructose is a monosaccharide - a simple sugar. It has the same chemical formula as glucose (c6h12o6), only the structure is different. Of course it doesn't have any enzymes, vitamins or nutrients. Neither does glucose.

Furthermore, presenting fructose in this manner and saying that it is robbing the body of micro-nutrients is misleading. Really, all it is doing is requiring a very small amount of these resources to be chemically rearranged to a form that will be easily metabolized. This little bit of work is not taxing for your body, and these micro-nutrients are in excess in a body that is fed even a poor diet.

I am not disputing the claim as a hole, but parts of this argument is a far reach and scientifically unsound.

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
06-13-2006, 01:01 AM
This isn't really accurate. Fructose is metabolized the same way as other sugars. It does go through the liver, but that is not part of the metabolic system. And it isn't "removed" from the liver, it is converted into glucose.I noticed this as well after you pointed it out. Both fructose and galactose get converted to glucose, among other things, in the liver. That is why I posted this article, so it could be critiqued. The author's sources are also quite a bit dated.

arjun
06-13-2006, 01:09 AM
I think many of the points are valid though. I do know that fructose is converted into fat easier than any other sugar, and that it is possible that it has negative effects on plasma lipid levels and can ultimately damage proteins. Plus I have read that it can cause excess flatulence and bloating :|

I have seen enough evidence and research done on the negative effects to stay away from large quantities of it, but I am not worried about the 2-3 pieces of fruit I eat per day. Most of the studies I have seen has been concentrated on high-fructose corn syrup products, like soda and etc. It is best to stay away from that crap anyhow.

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
06-13-2006, 01:16 AM
Plus I have read that it can cause excess flatulence and bloating :|Which isn't good for your friends sitting next to you. ;)



I have seen enough evidence and research done on the negative effects to stay away from large quantities of it, but I am not worried about the 2-3 pieces of fruit I eat per day. Most of the studies I have seen has been concentrated on high-fructose corn syrup products, like soda and etc. It is best to stay away from that crap anyhow.Exactly. I've also noticed the same trend regarding fructose corn syrup products. A few pieces of WHOLE fruits a day won't hurt you though. Fruit juice is a little shady, however.

arjun
06-13-2006, 01:23 AM
Which isn't good for your friends sitting next to you. ;)

I am a vegetarian and already eat enough soy products to constantly suffocate my girlfriend and family.

Yeah I wouldn't do fruit juice unless it is 100% not from concentrate and organic. But even then it is silly - why miss out on all that good fiber!

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
06-13-2006, 01:38 AM
I love my 100% grape juice. :)

Turnip
06-13-2006, 03:04 AM
So eat as little sugar as you can is the moral of this post?

arjun
06-13-2006, 10:16 AM
I would say to eat fructose only in low amounts, and only from fruits. Avoid high fructose corn syrups all-together.

Holto
06-13-2006, 02:26 PM
I would say to eat fructose only in low amounts, and only from fruits. Avoid high fructose corn syrups all-together.

Exactly.

No sugar on the planet has enzymes, vitamins, or minerals. They are found in the food itself.

Go Raw baby!!!!!!!!!!

Slim Schaedle
06-13-2006, 02:58 PM
Furthermore, presenting fructose in this manner and saying that it is robbing the body of micro-nutrients is misleading. Really, all it is doing is requiring a very small amount of these resources to be chemically rearranged to a form that will be easily metabolized. This little bit of work is not taxing for your body, and these micro-nutrients are in excess in a body that is fed even a poor diet.
What specific resources are you refering to?

Slim Schaedle
06-13-2006, 03:01 PM
It does. All carbohydrates get converted into sugar before entering glycolysis, where cellular respiration (metabolism) begins.
You probably already know this, but don't forget about glycogenesis.


For those who don't know, glucose does not immediately and automatically enter glycolysis. It depends on the energy charge (adequate ATP levels) of the cell.

Slim Schaedle
06-13-2006, 03:02 PM
Search for a fructose post by Slim. He explains it all, and ever has cool pictures.

I don't believe fructose ever gets converted to glucose, but I would have to dig up his thread and read it again.
It does.

Slim Schaedle
06-13-2006, 03:05 PM
This isn't really accurate. The fructose you eat is ultimately metabolized the same way as other sugars. It does go through the liver, but that is not part of the metabolic system.
What exactly (specfically) do you mean by this?

arjun
06-13-2006, 05:55 PM
What exactly (specfically) do you mean by this?

I mean that it is ultimately converted into glucose and enters into cellular respiration just like any other carbohydrate.

Slim Schaedle
06-13-2006, 06:04 PM
I mean that it is ultimately converted into glucose and enters into cellular respiration just like any other carbohydrate.
No it doesn't

arjun
06-13-2006, 07:54 PM
Would you like to elaborate? What else might happen to it? Again, it isn't just ejected out of your body, and to enter into glycolysis the molecular structure must be rearranged into a glucose molecule. Since glycolysis is standard in all living things, there is no other way it can happen.

It is true that fructose is slow to be absorbed in the intestines, so this conversion happens mainly in the liver. It is also true that fructose is usually turned into glycogen first, and if there is no immediate energy need glycogen can be stored as fat. However, to be used in your body those fat deposits or that glycogen still has to be turned into glucose.

Progress
06-13-2006, 08:15 PM
This is all still Greek to me but perhaps it is pertinent to this discussion:

http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showpost.php?p=1360971&postcount=35

arjun
06-13-2006, 08:37 PM
Slim Schaedle you must have a degree in physiology.

Progress
06-13-2006, 09:02 PM
Slim Schaedle you must have a degree in physiology.

Whatever he has, he's used it for serious ownage on here at times.

Slim Schaedle
06-13-2006, 10:07 PM
No degree


I just have a brain, haha


(One year left on my Nutrition degree. However, myself and fattyniebs (look him/pictures up on here) read much deeper into our studies than what is expected, required, or tested on. I wouldn't trust half my classmates to make a cheeseburger for me. Ironically, that was a requirement in one of my classes)

Slim Schaedle
06-13-2006, 10:10 PM
Slim Schaedle you must have a degree in physiology.
You seem to know more than most regarding the topic, which is good. I was wondering if this is from formal education(?)

RedSpikeyThing
06-13-2006, 10:30 PM
However, myself and fattyniebs (look him/pictures up on here) read much deeper into our studies than what is expected, required, or tested on.

Definately the best way to learn.

arjun
06-13-2006, 11:10 PM
Well, the extra reading and studying has definitely paid off. I see what you mean now after looking at your energy pathway charts. Is this same process utilized when glycogen from fructose is metabolized, or does this get changed into glucose before it enters in cellular respiration?

I am in the middle of my second year at the University of Wisconsin. I am double majoring in biology and immunology at the moment, but that second major is always changing :| . Metabolism is extremely interesting, probably my favorite part of my lab classes so far. I am really excited to take Anatomy next semester and Physiology the following semester.

I know what you mean with other classmates as well. I think most people in school cruise by doing the bare minimum and are happy with C's. I don't see a strong desire from my peers to actually learn and retain the information.