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View Full Version : High Protien=Kidney Damage



arya202
06-17-2006, 09:23 PM
My mom keeps nagging me about this and I don't pay attention:rolleyes:.

But I think I should just show her a decent article to convince her. So anyone got one? What article did you guys use to convince yourselves or your parents?

KingWilder
06-17-2006, 09:27 PM
Luckily I don't have to convince my parents of anything

there have been NO studies linking the two

just drink plenty of water and you'll be fine

if you want more info do a search

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
06-17-2006, 09:36 PM
Only if you have already existing kidney problems should you worry about protein intake. There aren't sufficient studies linking excess protein intake and damage to healthy kidneys. Just drink plenty of fluids to keep your kidneys flushed out and you should be fine.

I've read about high protein intake and calcium loss, however: http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/abstract/128/6/1051

RedSpikeyThing
06-17-2006, 10:31 PM
I believe high protein diets have been linked to kidney stones. I assume that means a CRAZY amount of protein, though.

Thexile
06-17-2006, 10:34 PM
i believe I read something saying protein consumption of over 300-50g per day+ is related to kidney damage.

redspikeything is right there has been evidence that insane amounts of protein can damage the kidneys, but thats with everything else too.. =D

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
06-17-2006, 10:37 PM
i believe I read something saying protein consumption of over 300-50g per day+ is related to kidney damage. The only studies I've seen linking the two are for protein intake and ALREADY unhealthy kidneys. Drink plenty of fluids to prevent kidney stones.

There aren't sufficient studies on the long-term effects of high-protein diets. The only thing I've read regarding high protein diets is calcium loss and a risk posed to those with kidney problems or are predisposed to kidney problems.


In terms of safety, there is little long-term information on the health effects of high-protein diets. From the available data, however, it is evident that the consumption of protein greater than two to three times the U.S. Recommended Daily Allowance contributes to urinary calcium loss and may, in the long term, predispose to bone loss. Caution with these diets is recommended in those individuals who may be predisposed to nephrolithiasis or kidney disease, and particularly in those with diabetes mellitus.LINK (http://www.ingentaconnect.com/search/expand?pub=infobike://ilsi/nure/2002/00000060/00000007/art00001&unc=)

betastas
06-17-2006, 10:53 PM
Ask her to show you the studies that prove it being harmful. She'll have a hell of a time, as I haven't seen them yet.

drew
06-17-2006, 11:12 PM
In the 4+ years that I've been on a high-protein diet, I've had 2 kidney stones. Both were non-protein related (there are different types). I also have one deformed kidney, which is a genetic thing and really isn't a problem. I've had several CT scans and my kidneys are extremely healthy. I've asked 4 separate doctors (My primary, 2 urologists, and sports doc) about protein and kidney health and all of them said there's no correlation and to just drink plenty of water to aid in digestion.

arya202
06-18-2006, 07:09 PM
http://www.webmd.com/content/article/62/71623.htm

That's what my mom came up with to say protien is bad. What arguments can I bring up to counter the article?

drew
06-18-2006, 07:18 PM
#1, read the 1st paragraph. Do you have normally functioning kidneys? If so, you're fine.

#2, they're studying the Atkins diet, which is primarily protein based. You can still eat high protein and have a balanced diet.

arya202
06-18-2006, 07:40 PM
#1, read the 1st paragraph. Do you have normally functioning kidneys? If so, you're fine.

#2, they're studying the Atkins diet, which is primarily protein based. You can still eat high protein and have a balanced diet.


Ok thanks man! WBB helps me out so many times...

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
06-18-2006, 08:10 PM
http://www.webmd.com/content/article/62/71623.htm

That's what my mom came up with to say protien is bad. What arguments can I bring up to counter the article?
The first paragraph says:


"High-protein diets like that of the popular Atkins diet may accelerate the loss of kidney function in people with early problems. However, these controversial diets do not seem to affect people with normal kidneys, suggests new research.":thumbup:

Your mom should learn how to read. :p

arjun
06-18-2006, 08:14 PM
#1, read the 1st paragraph. Do you have normally functioning kidneys? If so, you're fine.

#2, they're studying the Atkins diet, which is primarily protein based. You can still eat high protein and have a balanced diet.

Plus this article cites protein from meat as the main source of the problem. You could just become a vegetarian ;)

arya202
06-18-2006, 08:14 PM
Yeah she basically just clicked the first thing on webmd told me to read and left to go get food.

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
06-18-2006, 08:15 PM
:rolleyes:

Perhaps you should've been the one to go get food and tell her to read. ;)

Beef101
06-18-2006, 10:19 PM
my understanding is that high protein diet lowers blood pH and the body responds by neutralising it with calcium from the bones. this raises calcium levels in the blood. high blood calcium levels are ascociated with some forms of kidney stones... that doesnt really help your cause, but im sure there are millions of people on high protein diets who are fine. you could always get a blood test for kidney function. In Australia you get three free every year outnumber

TheGimp
06-19-2006, 05:24 AM
http://www.pubmedcentral.gov/articlerender.fcgi?tool=pubmed&pubmedid=16174292


Although excessive protein intake remains a health concern in individuals with pre-existing renal disease, the literature lacks significant research demonstrating a link between protein intake and the initiation or progression of renal disease in healthy individuals. More importantly, evidence suggests that protein-induced changes in renal function are likely a normal adaptative mechanism well within the functional limits of a healthy kidney. Without question, long-term studies are needed to clarify the scant evidence currently available regarding this relationship. At present, there is not sufficient proof to warrant public health directives aimed at restricting dietary protein intake in healthy adults for the purpose of preserving renal function.


http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/81/6/1298


Concerns that diets high in meat protein may have deleterious effects on renal function and bone turnover were not substantiated by this study, which showed similar reductions in creatinine clearance with both dietary patterns as a consequence of body mass change. Skov et al (21) assessed changes in renal function by measuring the glomerular filtration rate during high-protein and high-carbohydrate diets over a 6-mo period and also concluded that the HP diet had no adverse effects on kidney function.

http://www.nature.com/ijo/journal/v23/n11/abs/0801048a.html


CONCLUSION: Moderate changes in dietary protein intake cause adaptive alterations in renal size and function without indications of adverse effects.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=10722779&dopt=Citation


Excess protein and amino acid intake have been recognized as hazardous potential implications for kidney function, leading to progressive impairment of this organ. It has been suggested in the literature, without clear evidence, that high protein intake by athletes has no harmful consequences on renal function. This study investigated body-builders (BB) and other well-trained athletes (OA) with high and medium protein intake, respectively, in order to shed light on this issue. The athletes underwent a 7-day nutrition record analysis as well as blood sample and urine collection to determine the potential renal consequences of a high protein intake. The data revealed that despite higher plasma concentration of uric acid and calcium, Group BB had renal clearances of creatinine, urea, and albumin that were within the normal range. The nitrogen balance for both groups became positive when daily protein intake exceeded 1.26 g.kg but there were no correlations between protein intake and creatinine clearance, albumin excretion rate, and calcium excretion rate. To conclude, it appears that protein intake under 2. 8 g.kg does not impair renal function in well-trained athletes as indicated by the measures of renal function used in this study

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
06-19-2006, 09:16 AM
^^

So again, if you have healthy kidneys, there is nothing to worry about. :thumbup:

Mercuryblade
06-19-2006, 08:09 PM
Ahhhh moms, gotta love how they worry. My mom always worries about my eating. Luckily I'm 20 years old and she doesn't try to control my diet.
They always think I'm on some new fad diet depending on what meal it is. Say it's a day when I'm not lifting, and I don't really need any more fat because I'm close to getting my calories already, I might make myself an egg white omellette, and my mom or dad will ask "are you on some kind of low fat diet?", or if its late in the day and I've already worked out, and I don't eat any bread with my dinner because my body doesn't need any more carbs it's "are you on some kind of low carb diet?"
I've tried to explain to them many times about how I eat is a reflection of feeding my body what it needs at appropriate times but it's been useless.

Moms love to worry, I guess we should feel at least somewhat happy that they care enough, but goddamn its annoying.

kw1k
06-21-2006, 02:34 AM
Luckily I don't have to convince my parents of anything

there have been NO studies linking the two

just drink plenty of water and you'll be fine

if you want more info do a search


actually it's true, my doctor was showing me this graph or something because i did not want to listen to him. I was wrong

TheGimp
06-21-2006, 02:42 AM
actually it's true, my doctor was showing me this graph or something because i did not want to listen to him. I was wrong

Well hot diggity, if a doctor's shown you a graph it must be true!

How about you get him to refute a single one of the studies I posted.

kw1k
06-21-2006, 03:06 AM
Well hot diggity, if a doctor's shown you a graph it must be true!

How about you get him to refute a single one of the studies I posted.


What's the attitude :confused:

TheGimp
06-21-2006, 03:12 AM
What was the graph of? It sounds like you're not even sure and yet you're basing your opinion on it.

kw1k
06-21-2006, 03:43 AM
What was the graph of? It sounds like you're not even sure and yet you're basing your opinion on it.

Well the graph had 4 lines and each line was = to 2 people, so i guess a tottall of 8 guys, and he said that they gave 4 ppl high protein diets and the other 4 a normal diet. he said they did a 15 month test & while doing blood tests every 8 weeks, well when he showed me the graph the 4 people with normal protein diet had normal kidneys, nothing seemed to have been, but the other 4 who had higher intake of protein showed an effect on the kidneys. I didnt pay much attention to how the graph looked like but it was pretty self explantory i guess. If you want more info on it, i'll be more then happy to PM you his name & number you can go ahead and ask him.

TheGimp
06-21-2006, 03:52 AM
Define an effect. The studies I posted show that a high protein diet does have an effect on renal size and function, neither of which are adverse but simply adaptive.

Feel free to send me his details.

ddegroff
06-21-2006, 10:20 AM
so i guess a tottall of 8 guys

I'm not going to drop my protein shake, cause 4 guys saw an "effect" on their kidneys.

seK
06-21-2006, 01:33 PM
I wish I could meet the doctor and the graph maker so I could punch them both in the kidneys.
There are so many other more important things to worry about than this.

RedSpikeyThing
06-21-2006, 03:35 PM
*ahem*

An effect means something was different between the control group and experimental group. A STATISTICALLY SIGNIFICANT effect means that the different was larger than the margin of error incurred by using a sample. With 8 people in the sample, that margin of error would be very large, so I doubt the effect was significant.

Many scientists skew their graphs to make the effect look larger than it is. And with a professional telling you the effect is significant, it's hard to argue. I understand. However, seeing the original study and forming your own opinion is much more productive than regurgitating what the doctor said. Next time you see him ask for a reference to the article. I'm sure he'll be more than happy to give it to you!

arjun
06-21-2006, 04:11 PM
*ahem*

An effect means something was different between the control group and experimental group. A STATISTICALLY SIGNIFICANT effect means that the different was larger than the margin of error incurred by using a sample. With 8 people in the sample, that margin of error would be very large, so I doubt the effect was significant.

Many scientists skew their graphs to make the effect look larger than it is. And with a professional telling you the effect is significant, it's hard to argue. I understand. However, seeing the original study and forming your own opinion is much more productive than regurgitating what the doctor said. Next time you see him ask for a reference to the article. I'm sure he'll be more than happy to give it to you!

Here here! Plus the study needs to be published in a respected, peer reviewed journal and the experiment repeated by multiple other scientists independant of the initial experimentor.

I don't think that most scientists intentionally fudge results, but I think that when humans desire to see something specific then they are more prone to "skewing" results as the above forum member said. This misrepresentation of the truth probably isn't even intentional in most cases.

... and its funny to punch someone in the kidneys.

kw1k
06-21-2006, 06:29 PM
*ahem*

An effect means something was different between the control group and experimental group. A STATISTICALLY SIGNIFICANT effect means that the different was larger than the margin of error incurred by using a sample. With 8 people in the sample, that margin of error would be very large, so I doubt the effect was significant.

Many scientists skew their graphs to make the effect look larger than it is. And with a professional telling you the effect is significant, it's hard to argue. I understand. However, seeing the original study and forming your own opinion is much more productive than regurgitating what the doctor said. Next time you see him ask for a reference to the article. I'm sure he'll be more than happy to give it to you!


I dunno i guess. I wasnt going to sit there and aruge with him about it.

kw1k
06-21-2006, 06:33 PM
Define an effect. The studies I posted show that a high protein diet does have an effect on renal size and function, neither of which are adverse but simply adaptive.

Feel free to send me his details.

I sent you his info , I can't really define the "effect" i didnt unerstand it 100%

ddegroff
06-21-2006, 08:38 PM
Its not that they skew the results really. They skew how they are displayed. Also ask the doc (or gimp can if your gonna call) who payed for the study. That can have a BIG impact on how results are shown.

RedSpikeyThing
06-21-2006, 09:44 PM
I dunno i guess. I wasnt going to sit there and aruge with him about it.

Understandable...I wouldn't argue with my doc either ;)

Thexile
06-22-2006, 07:31 AM
The only studies I've seen linking the two are for protein intake and ALREADY unhealthy kidneys. Drink plenty of fluids to prevent kidney stones.

There aren't sufficient studies on the long-term effects of high-protein diets. The only thing I've read regarding high protein diets is calcium loss and a risk posed to those with kidney problems or are predisposed to kidney problems.

LINK (http://www.ingentaconnect.com/search/expand?pub=infobike://ilsi/nure/2002/00000060/00000007/art00001&unc=)

my mom actually told my doc, and he gave me the classic lecture on how too much protein is bad for you, this is the same guy that diagnosed a broken tendon in my shoulder as a lipoma... i gotta find a new doc.

but im pretty sure I read the 500+g/day kidney damage thing on these forums somewhere along time ago. Idk the post I read could very well be wrong.

I found this thing agreeing with what you said though:
Elizabeth Ward, founder and president of the British Kidney Patient Association said: "If you have healthy kidneys, you can't eat enough protein to damage your kidneys.

"But there are a number of kidney diseases, which do not produce symptoms until much later on in the illness.

"People who are thinking of trying one of these diets should go to their GP for a urine test which would pick up 90% of problems."

The research is published in the Annals of Internal Medicine.