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come back kid
06-19-2006, 01:54 PM
First of all, this is my first post, and I am overwhelmed by the awesome info this forum has to offer. It basically has changed my whole thought process on how i will continue my training.

Stats:
Age: 29
weight: 208 (230 12 weeks ago)
height: 5'9"

My issue lies here. I work out 4 days a week, cardio included (running 1.5 miles pre workout). I just constantly feel tired up until i start my workout. I feel fine when i get rolling, just during the day i could nap at any givin time. My goal is to lose weight (obviously over weight) and gain muscle. My diet consists of a small breakfast, usually low fat yogurt, lunch i have a vegetarian wrap, and for dinner, i will have either chicken and veggies or fish and veggies, maybe some rice here and there. Where am I going wrong? Or is anything I'm doing right? I will value any and all input. Thanks for your time.

DavyRen
06-19-2006, 03:06 PM
First of all stop with all the bloody running before your workout. Save as much energy as possible to train as hard as you can.
What is your routine? Have you recorded your macros on www.fitday.com?

TheGimp
06-19-2006, 03:07 PM
Sounds like you're starving yourself, try eating some more.

arjun
06-19-2006, 07:12 PM
Dude, I agree with The Gimp. Before I started weightlifting I would always be tired, especially at a certain point in the day (around 5pm). This happened even during the summer when I was sleeping eight hours a day and running every day.

Now this problem is non-existant. I don't attribute it being solved to the weightlifting per se, but rather to the massive amount of calories I have been consuming. I am a vegetarian and with college, a job and a girlfriend my days are usually very busy, so I hardly would eat anything at all (1500 calories per day average). Now I am taking in around 2500-3000 (a lot for me) per day and even when I am getting 4-5 hours of sleep I am totally energized throughout the day. Plus now I am eating in a manner that is more conducive to keeping my metabolism up (6-7 small meals throughout the day - about one every three hours - instead of 2-3 medium to large sized meals later in the day).

Calories = fuel.

come back kid
06-20-2006, 07:20 AM
First of all stop with all the bloody running before your workout. Save as much energy as possible to train as hard as you can.
What is your routine? Have you recorded your macros on www.fitday.com?

What would you recommend to get the heart rate up before working out. I felt as if the running pre-workout was a kickstarter to get the blood flowin!

I am working on my fit day as I type. Forgive me for asking, but what are macros?

come back kid
06-20-2006, 07:28 AM
Dude, I agree with The Gimp. Before I started weightlifting I would always be tired, especially at a certain point in the day (around 5pm). This happened even during the summer when I was sleeping eight hours a day and running every day.

Now this problem is non-existant. I don't attribute it being solved to the weightlifting per se, but rather to the massive amount of calories I have been consuming. I am a vegetarian and with college, a job and a girlfriend my days are usually very busy, so I hardly would eat anything at all (1500 calories per day average). Now I am taking in around 2500-3000 (a lot for me) per day and even when I am getting 4-5 hours of sleep I am totally energized throughout the day. Plus now I am eating in a manner that is more conducive to keeping my metabolism up (6-7 small meals throughout the day - about one every three hours - instead of 2-3 medium to large sized meals later in the day).

Calories = fuel.

Thanks for the input Arjun. The problem I forsee is the losing weight issue. If need to drop at least an additional 15 lbs, would the additional calorie intake inhibit that from happening.

Beef101
06-20-2006, 07:29 AM
your dont have reason to be depressed? not over or under sleeping?

Anthony
06-20-2006, 07:35 AM
To answer your original question, I think your fatigue is related to your diet (looks like ****), but what are your sleep patterns like? And what do you do for work?

As for warmups, I think they should contain the following three items:

1) increase temperature and heartrate
2) improve mobility
3) prepare the central nervous system (CNS)

ddegroff
06-20-2006, 07:39 AM
A nice fast paced walk 5-10mins is good to warm up (works for me). Running burns off some of those glyco stores (much needed energy for lifting). So your making it tougher for yourself if your gonna run do it post WO.

From what you posted I wouldn't be surprised if your getting less than 1000cals total. THATs why your fatigued, your not eating enough. It's Ok, most people do this starting out.

Lets shoot for 1g/lb of LBM(fat free mass) of protein, and .5g/lb of LBM for fat. Those are MINIMUM per day, the rest of your cals should come from carbs.

come back kid
06-20-2006, 07:56 AM
your dont have reason to be depressed? not over or under sleeping?


Not depressed. Depends on what you consider as undersleepeing. i would say 5 to six hours a night is a safe average.

come back kid
06-20-2006, 08:04 AM
A nice fast paced walk 5-10mins is good to warm up (works for me). Running burns off some of those glyco stores (much needed energy for lifting). So your making it tougher for yourself if your gonna run do it post WO.

From what you posted I wouldn't be surprised if your getting less than 1000cals total. THATs why your fatigued, your not eating enough. It's Ok, most people do this starting out.

Lets shoot for 1g/lb of LBM(fat free mass) of protein, and .5g/lb of LBM for fat. Those are MINIMUM per day, the rest of your cals should come from carbs.

dd- I dont know what "1g/lb of LBM(fat free mass) of protein, or .5g/lb of LBM for fat.
Forgive my ignorance.

TheGimp
06-20-2006, 08:14 AM
Thanks for the input Arjun. The problem I forsee is the losing weight issue. If need to drop at least an additional 15 lbs, would the additional calorie intake inhibit that from happening.

On the contrary, the additional calories could well aid your weight loss. If you are on too strict a calorie deficit then your metabolism begins to shutdown as your body goes into "starvation mode", and weight loss will slow to a crawl.


dd- I dont know what "1g/lb of LBM(fat free mass) of protein, or .5g/lb of LBM for fat.

Find out your body fat percentage. Use this to calculate the total lbs of fat you are carrying. Subtract this from your total weight to determine your lean body mass (LBM). The generally accepted guidelines for daily intake of protein and fat are those values ddegroff provided.

ddegroff
06-20-2006, 08:18 AM
LEAN BODY MASS = lbm

Do you know your body fat %?

1g of protein for every lb of LBM, so for me thats atleast 156g of protein per day. For fat thats about 75g per day.

I would say for you 170g of protein per day would be a good minimum, fat would be ~80g.

EDIT: I agree with GIMP (beat me to it), get your bf tested if not then you could start with what i stated.

come back kid
06-20-2006, 08:31 AM
To answer your original question, I think your fatigue is related to your diet (looks like ****), but what are your sleep patterns like? And what do you do for work?

As for warmups, I think they should contain the following three items:

1) increase temperature and heartrate
2) improve mobility
3) prepare the central nervous system (CNS)

I agree, my diet is **** (your signature tells me that). As for work, I'm a desk jockey, selling software to small to medium businesses. I average 5-6 hrs sleep nightly. your warmup comment states temp and heartrate, does that mean the running is ok? I'm not exhausted after my run, and i feel mentally ready to work out post run.

come back kid
06-20-2006, 08:38 AM
LEAN BODY MASS = lbm

Do you know your body fat %?

1g of protein for every lb of LBM, so for me thats atleast 156g of protein per day. For fat thats about 75g per day.

I would say for you 170g of protein per day would be a good minimum, fat would be ~80g.

EDIT: I agree with GIMP (beat me to it), get your bf tested if not then you could start with what i stated.

No, i dont know my body fat %. I will take the diet advice, and give it a go. The 80g of fat worries me though, but hey, thats why im here, to learn! I will let you know the results.

Anthony
06-20-2006, 08:38 AM
The run is okay, but it only addresses #1. You should still do mobility work and prepare your CNS before lifting heavy. I'd also consider cutting back on distance ... at least until you figure out why you are tired.

ddegroff
06-20-2006, 08:41 AM
80g of fat worries me though

Fat doesn't make you gain weight, excess cals does.

come back kid
06-20-2006, 08:45 AM
On the contrary, the additional calories could well aid your weight loss. If you are on too strict a calorie deficit then your metabolism begins to shutdown as your body goes into "starvation mode", and weight loss will slow to a crawl.
Find out your body fat percentage. Use this to calculate the total lbs of fat you are carrying. Subtract this from your total weight to determine your lean body mass (LBM). The generally accepted guidelines for daily intake of protein and fat are those values ddegroff provided.

Gimp- you seem wise beyond your years. I will take your advice in stride.

come back kid
06-20-2006, 08:52 AM
Can you define mobility? How would one prepare the CNS?

come back kid
06-20-2006, 08:55 AM
Fat doesn't make you gain weight, excess cals does.

See! I'm learning. Thanks.

Anthony
06-20-2006, 09:02 AM
Can you define mobility? How would one prepare the CNS?

Mobility would basically be taking all your major joints through complete range of motion.

To prepare the CNS, gradually build up to your working weight instead of doing your heaviest set first.

come back kid
06-20-2006, 09:09 AM
Mobility would basically be taking all your major joints through complete range of motion.

To prepare the CNS, gradually build up to your working weight instead of doing your heaviest set first.

thanks Anthony.

Beast
06-20-2006, 10:08 AM
I agree with Anthony's approach... try light jogging for 5 minutes, then move onto the warmups with weights. I like taking 4 or 5 warm-up sets before moving onto the heavier working weights for the first exercise of a bodypart.

come back kid
06-20-2006, 11:32 AM
It seems relatively impossible to dispute Anthony on his advice. I enjoy the running, but it seems to not fit into any of these discussions. i would like to attribute my current weight loss to the fact that i am jogging. when would be a good time to run, if not pre-workout?

Anthony
06-20-2006, 12:01 PM
A quick run before your training can be a part of a good warm up, you just have to include other things as well. Perhaps under 10 minutes at a moderate pace? If you're a decent runner, a 10 minute 1.5 mile is reasonable. Or you could run a mile after your workout. Or you could run on your non-lifting days.

I certainly won't tell you to avoid running - if you enjoy it, do it!

Bob
06-20-2006, 12:38 PM
CBKid.. I didn't see anyone else post it.. but perhaps you are not getting enough sleep? You said you only get 5-6 hours... have you tried getting 7-8 hrs?

I know.. I know.. sometimes life is moving so fast, and sleep seems like a waste of time... but just depending upon your recovery abilities, you may need some more sleep.

Worth a try..

come back kid
06-20-2006, 01:32 PM
CBKid.. I didn't see anyone else post it.. but perhaps you are not getting enough sleep? You said you only get 5-6 hours... have you tried getting 7-8 hrs?

I know.. I know.. sometimes life is moving so fast, and sleep seems like a waste of time... but just depending upon your recovery abilities, you may need some more sleep.

Worth a try..

Your right. I could use more sleep. The thing is, I have 3 kids (2 under 5) who are all up at the crack of dawn. When i finally get them to bed, i have things to do to maintain a house and a family. Sometimes i dont get to bed till 12-1am. My wife is a nurse who works nights, and doesnt get home till 8am. She will let me sleep in on the occasional weekend.

Holto
06-20-2006, 04:10 PM
Or you could run on your non-lifting days.

:strong: :strong: :strong:

Bob
06-20-2006, 09:59 PM
Your right. I could use more sleep. The thing is, I have 3 kids (2 under 5) who are all up at the crack of dawn. When i finally get them to bed, i have things to do to maintain a house and a family. Sometimes i dont get to bed till 12-1am. My wife is a nurse who works nights, and doesnt get home till 8am. She will let me sleep in on the occasional weekend.
I understand dude.. life gets in the way some times.. but you gotta do it for everyone..

Here is a suggestion that worked for my family.. when my girls were younger then 5.. and we stick to it now. Get into the habit of going to sleep at the same time EVERY Night.. no excuses. that way they wake up at the same time every day.. and you have a fixed time to get stuff done and also set your sleep pattern in sync with their. It was almost a miracle when we did this.. attitudes changes.. parents got stuff done.. everything became easier.
In the last 5 yrs, we have only missed bedtime 10 times... and 6 of those were on vacation at Disneyworld.

good luck... and good sleeping..

jalal90
06-24-2006, 08:25 AM
im not the wisest one but yes cut back on the distance of cardio do a stretch for all major joints and some light weight exercises Walah ready to workout and raise ur cals and protein and fat a bit and bye bye fatigue :)

anth15
06-24-2006, 11:36 AM
take goji juice