Something that's still not clear to me regarding NO...

[General Zod]

First off, I did a search, and read the NO threads (well, not all of them, that would take a month). Clearly, the consensus on this board is that NO products are crap, and for $3 you can buy a metric ton of arginine and get the same results. However, what I'm unclear on, is the following:

It seems most people are OK with the claim that NO facilitates (in some way, shape or form) increased blood flow. After all, the pump effect, no matter how superficial, is legitimate. So, if blood flow is increased, and it's blood which carries nutrients and oxygen to the muscles, which are essential to muscle growth, how can NO not have a real and positive effect?

I admit, I know very little about physiology, and I don't expect I've thought of something you've all missed. I'm merely trying to better understand what I'm clearly missing. Thanks in advance.

Greg

[Davidelmo]

Your logic is correct but messing with your body's own blood pressure regulation generally isn't a good idea in the first place!

Your body controls blood flow to organs and systems by contracting or dilating rings of smooth muscle (as opposed to skeletal muscle like your biceps, quads etc) around arterioles (which supply the target organ/area etc with blood.) Contracting the smooth muscle reduces the flow and dilating it increases flow. Of course this also alters the pressure too.

To put it very simply, the arginine is converted to NO in the body, and NO acts directly on the smooth muscle in the arterioles to dilate it.
(As a little side note, NO derivatives are used in some forms of blood pressure medications.)

However, I have read that the body responds to the increased flow and reduces the blood flow later on when the smooth muscle is able to contract again. Clearly this wouldn't be a good thing.

I reckon that the best thing to do is to let your body decide. If the muscles are depleted after a workout, your body will do a fine job of increasing flow etc by itself.

[General Zod]

Thanks for your response. I guess my confusion lies in the fact that the overwhelming majority of responses in this forum, to anyone inquiring about NO, is that it's tantamount to snake oil. However, there are clearly some real, physical impacts from NO on the body. This generates two questions:

1. Are the effects lasting?
2. Are the effects beneficial?

My primary question is, are the effects lasting? As I noted earlier, my knowledge of physiology is quite limited. However, if more blood is flowing towards the muscle during a work out, I'm not sure how that can't be beneficial. Can you or anyone else speak specifically to that? Thanks again.

Greg

[Holto]

The benefits of the *temporary* increase in blood flow are immediately negated by the reduction in blood flow.

It's classic hoodwinking from the supp industry. Take an effect of a particular product and dress it up like a benefit.

Increased nutrient delivery is a benefit. The blood that pools in your muscle will be depleted as your cells assimilate nutrients. The result is blood that is LOWER in nutrients than what is circulating through the rest of the body.

[Eszekial]

I love this forum.

[Holto]

I love this forum.

The Gov't needs to put together a team that combines legal knowledge with nutrition/medical to attack the supplement & weight loss industries.

Especially now that the gov't is looking at obesity as a problem. Get rid of all the charlatans and perhaps people won't be so confused.

Of course I'm talking about the general public and not our community here.

I really believe the result is that supp companies would come up with supps that work if they were required to. If you can make money on *claims* why spend all that money on product develpment.

:angel:

[General Zod]

The benefits of the *temporary* increase in blood flow are immediately negated by the reduction in blood flow.Two follow-ups...

1. Does the benefit of increased blood flow during exercise, outweigh the decreased blood flow during times when the body is sedentary?
2. If you're taking 3 NO pills (as in the case with Nitrix) before every meal, shouldn't the increased blood flow be somewhat consistent?

It's classic hoodwinking from the supp industry. Take an effect of a particular product and dress it up like a benefit.I take 99% of what the supp industry says with many grains of salt. However, I played around with N02 when it first came out. The workout pump was obvious. However, what I didn't really notice until I stopped using it, was I also saw decent gains. Now, maybe that was mental, but gains are gains.

Increased nutrient delivery is a benefit. The blood that pools in your muscle will be depleted as your cells assimilate nutrients. The result is blood that is LOWER in nutrients than what is circulating through the rest of the body.Isn't this always the case when you lift? Perhaps just to a lesser degree?

Thanks again.

Greg

[Wild Cat McCane]

What I've wanted to know is if its not beneficial, why does most protein powders (ON) has some degree of it in it.

[Slim Schaedle]

What I've wanted to know is if its not beneficial, why does most protein powders (ON) has some degree of it in it.
Arginine one of the amino acids that makes up whey protein.

[General Zod]

Screw it. I just bought some Nitrix. If it doesn't do anything for me, c'est la Vie.

Greg

[Davidelmo]

Placebo effect is still an effect.

If you *think* it's going to work, you will end up trying harder, lifting more and then getting better gains.

I think a HUGE amount of bodybuilding is to do with mentality. I can be stressed, tired and starving and yet have an awesome workout... or I can be fully rested, wired on caffeine and glucose and have a terrible workout... it just depends on how you feel. If taking some pills and/or seeing a good pump during a workout gets you motivated, then it is working in some way.