Arginine question.

[Natetaco]

So I was at vitamin shoppe yesterday and i saw arginine for 7 bucks. 100 pills for 7 seemed like a deal to me and even if it didnt work, its only 7$. Anyway each pill is 500 mg. How many mgs should I take pre workout ?

[cts122]

Many have stated that arginine gives the same effect as arginine Alpha-ketoglutarate, I have had a different experience. As do most, i experienced huge pumps with the arginine Alpha-ketoglutarate product. When I tried standard arginine I got very little if any pump at all. At walmart you can get 180 1000ml arginine Alpha-ketoglutarate for 10 dollars, IMO this is just as good a deal as any so I would suggest this over the normal arginine as I feel it works better as far as increasing blood flow concerned.

[cts122]

So I was at vitamin shoppe yesterday and i saw arginine for 7 bucks. 100 pills for 7 seemed like a deal to me and even if it didnt work, its only 7$. Anyway each pill is 500 mg. How many mgs should I take pre workout ?
To add if you have already purchased this and are wondering the dosage, you would need 6 caps.

[Natetaco]

I have to take 3 grams, 6 pills sounds rediculous.

[cts122]

I have to take 3 grams, 6 pills sounds rediculous.

yes sir, 3 grams, some dose with 4-5 but if you are going to get noticable results 3 has always been sufficient for me. (Usually the pills are 1000mg)

[djreef]

yea, 3 grams does it for me, too. Any more is overkill/waste. Be sure to take these with xtra vitamin C, E, selenium or a comparable antioxidant to quench any free radicals generated by the production of NO.

DJ

[Natetaco]

took 3 grams 40 mins pre workout and didnt reawlly feel anything...

[cts122]

took 3 grams 40 mins pre workout and didnt reawlly feel anything...

Like I said many claim regular L-arginine gives same results as aakg however i disagree, I only respond to the latter, regardless it really is not beneficial to lifts and weight and only gives very temporary cosmetic changes. If you dont experience anything from the arginine you may try aakg or just throw the idea out the window as in the end it really wont help you much.

[Natetaco]

well I was hoping maybe for some focus or something sorta like no explode or something. but nothing really, in fact i was yawning durning my workouts.

[djreef]

Maybe you got a bad batch, or you're a non-responder (it happens with creatine, right?). I take 3 grams, and I blow up.

DJ

[Eszekial]

Where is Holto when the world needs him?

[icanrace]

you need to consume 6-9g per day every day.

[Natetaco]

hahah i dont need too consume 9 grams of arginine a day, thats insane. I might be a non responder I was thinking about that. Caffeine and energy drinks dont give me a rush or wake me up so maybe arginine doesnt eather... who knows?:cry:

[Davidelmo]

you need to consume 6-9g per day every day.
^^ Why?

[sCaRz*Of*PaiN]

you need to consume 6-9g per day every day.Explain.


This thread hurts my eyes and my brain.


You shouldn't supplement with any one particular amino acid. It can disrupt the absorption of other amino acids [temporarily].


Since Holto isn't here, I'll just quote him -->


The benefits of the *temporary* increase in blood flow are immediately negated by the reduction in blood flow.

It's classic hoodwinking from the supp industry. Take an effect of a particular product and dress it up like a benefit.

Increased nutrient delivery is a benefit. The blood that pools in your muscle will be depleted as your cells assimilate nutrients. The result is blood that is LOWER in nutrients than what is circulating through the rest of the body.

[Wild Cat McCane]

oh my sweet jesus, now people are looking for direction from holto.


Some people respond differently. I get pumps with 500mg caps, but none on 1 gram pills.

Arginine is extremely cheap, your deal wasn't a deal. That is even GNC prices.

Now you can see why some people bash NO explodes and what not so harshly.

[Slim Schaedle]

oh my sweet jesus, now people are looking for direction from holto.
And the problem with that is......?

[sCaRz*Of*PaiN]

Nitric oxide (NO) released by vascular endothelial cells accounts for the relaxation of strips of vascular tissue1 and for the inhibition of platelet aggregation2 and platelet adhesion3 attributed to endothelium-derived relaxing factor4. We now demonstrate that NO can be synthesized from L-arginine by porcine aortic endothelial cells in culture. Nitric oxide was detected by bioassay5, chemiluminescence1 or by mass spectrometry. Release of NO from the endothelial cells induced by bradykinin and the calcium ionophore A23187 was reversibly enhanced by infusions of L-arginine and L-citrulline, but not D-arginine or other close structural analogues. Mass spectrometry studies using 15N-labelled L-arginine indicated that this enhancement was due to the formation of NO from the terminal guanidino nitrogen atom(s) of L-arginine. The strict substrate specificity of this reaction suggests that L-arginine is the precursor for NO synthesis in vascular endothelial cells.*goes blind*



And the problem with that is......?I'd also like to know. :)

[Slim Schaedle]

*goes blind*
In due time, my son, you'll be able to decipher it.

[sCaRz*Of*PaiN]

In due time, my son, you'll be able to decipher it.Thanks, lol. I'll give it time. :thumbup:

[BUFF STUFF]

I tried NO2, argine , I got big pumps from both

id say got a little bigger pump off the no2, but i recon this was dose related.

Argines good value for money,

Im now on aakg powder, Not the strogest or best results from this so far, I've have been taking 5grams pre workout,

think i was better on 3 - 3.5 grams of argine.

[sCaRz*Of*PaiN]

You're paying for a pump. Congrats.

[Davidelmo]

oh my sweet jesus, now people are looking for direction from holto.


Some people respond differently. I get pumps with 500mg caps, but none on 1 gram pills.

Arginine is extremely cheap, your deal wasn't a deal. That is even GNC prices.

Now you can see why some people bash NO explodes and what not so harshly.
So if you took 2x 500mg pills, you'd have a pump.. but if you took 1x1000mg then you wouldn't?


Nitric oxide (NO) released by vascular endothelial cells accounts for the relaxation of strips of vascular tissue1 and for the inhibition of platelet aggregation2 and platelet adhesion3 attributed to endothelium-derived relaxing factor4. We now demonstrate that NO can be synthesized from L-arginine by porcine aortic endothelial cells in culture. Nitric oxide was detected by bioassay5, chemiluminescence1 or by mass spectrometry. Release of NO from the endothelial cells induced by bradykinin and the calcium ionophore A23187 was reversibly enhanced by infusions of L-arginine and L-citrulline, but not D-arginine or other close structural analogues. Mass spectrometry studies using 15N-labelled L-arginine indicated that this enhancement was due to the formation of NO from the terminal guanidino nitrogen atom(s) of L-arginine. The strict substrate specificity of this reaction suggests that L-arginine is the precursor for NO synthesis in vascular endothelial cells.

Don't worry Scarz.. it's not that bad:
The numbers 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 etc are presumably references or links to tables or results. That confused me at first.

It doesn't have much relevance to vasodilation though. All it says is that L-arginine is the precursor to NO in the cells lining out vascular system. They used labelled L-Arginine and saw that the labelled Nitrogen in the arginine appeared in the NO. They also said that similar amino acids weren't converted to NO.. that shows specificity for L-Arginine.

I'm used to sifting through all this crap on my degree. Honestly, most of these phd people are WAY too verbose. I think they should make journals more accessible to "ordinary" people.

[sCaRz*Of*PaiN]

I think they should make journals more accessible to "ordinary" people.I won't be "ordinary" when I have a PhD myself, but for the time being, those types of studies are a bit confusing. I understood the gist of it, though.

[Davidelmo]

I'd never do a phd.. most of my uni lecturers are VERY smart, world-class researchers etc.. but they all seem really "weird"... too intellectual, not that much common sense, and quite often they have no social life whatsoever! I dont want to end up like that :p

What I meant by ordinary people are members of the public who might be interested in something they have seen on the news. If people want to look up info, they shouldn't have to sift through pages of a scientists verbal diarrhoea.

[sCaRz*Of*PaiN]

too intellectual, not that much common sense, and quite often they have no social life whatsoever! I dont want to end up like thatNerds aren't the only people who can get a PhD. Normal people can acquire one too. You don't have to be a boring, anti-social nerd to have a degree like that. I want to help people.



What I meant by ordinary people are members of the public who might be interested in something they have seen on the news. If people want to look up info, they shouldn't have to sift through pages of a scientists verbal diarrhoea.I know what you mean.

[Davidelmo]

Nerds aren't the only people who can get a PhD. Normal people can acquire one too. You don't have to be a boring, anti-social nerd to have a degree like that. I want to help people.

Yeah, I know a few cool people with phds too..my 30yr old school physics teacher.. he was crazy!

What's your area of study?

[sCaRz*Of*PaiN]

Human Nutrition and Physiology, though I'm only a few years into college and I may branch off into BioTechnology, but that would require more knowledge to absorb than I probably care to. :)

We'll see what happens...

[Natetaco]

so how about we get back on track?

[sCaRz*Of*PaiN]

About how you're wasting money and that the pump is giving you a motivational placebo effect?

[Slim Schaedle]

Thread hijacking typically isn't a good thing.



Unless it is done in a thread about arginine.

[Natetaco]

About how you're wasting money and that the pump is giving you a motivational placebo effect?


I made this thread because i wanted to know how much I should take pre workout. It was a whopping 7$ so I dont really care. And im not noticing any difference at all when i take it and dont, iv established that. Yes I guess you can say I wasted my money. You dont have to be rude, I got the point.

[Wild Cat McCane]

find what works for you.

A side effect is that arginine will give you the runs if you are too excited in swallowing pill after pill.:)

On that note, like it has been posted on the label of NOW AAKG, and universal shock therapy, extended amounts of arginine are not good.

But take it when you want the pump, **** why not? 7 dollars beh. nothing when you need a little self gratification.

[JHolmes145]

take some horny goat weed w/ ur arginine and turn it into something usefull LOL... i read in a nutrition book large doses of arginine taken over long periods leads to your skin thickening. supplement companies wont put that on the products of course

[Wild Cat McCane]

actually, as I just posted 1 post above, 2 companies put on their lables, don't use for a period over 60 days.

And if I'm not mistaken, isn't horny goat weed in the list of things like echinachea and what not. Things people buy, yet science has proven without a doubt that it is completely useless to the human body?

[sCaRz*Of*PaiN]

actually, as I just posted 1 post above, 2 companies put on their lables, don't use for a period over 60 days.Arginine is in meat. Would you stop eating meat after 60 days?

[cts122]

I like to cycle meat because i dont want to shut down my natural creatine levels or overdose on arginine liek you suggested ;), umm can someone close this thread.

[Wild Cat McCane]

does a steak have 20 grams of arginine in it?

[Wild Cat McCane]

that was stupid. Are you saying anthing "natural" is fine to take?

Hell, taking to much vitiman c can give you a kidney stone

[sCaRz*Of*PaiN]

There's about 6 grams of arginine in a 12 ounce steak. And the ratios of amino acids are what they're supposed to be. Getting too much of any one particular amino acid can disrupt the absorption of others.

[Davidelmo]

actually, as I just posted 1 post above, 2 companies put on their lables, don't use for a period over 60 days.

And if I'm not mistaken, isn't horny goat weed in the list of things like echinachea and what not. Things people buy, yet science has proven without a doubt that it is completely useless to the human body?

Echinachea HAS been proven to work.. in fact it's even been connected to some autoimmune leukaemias in some instances

[Wild Cat McCane]

it hasn't actually been proven. It has actually be proven thus far to show no results on anything.

Find me a study.

[sCaRz*Of*PaiN]

Find me a study.Find a study on the amazing muscle building effects of arginine.

[Natetaco]

now echinacia, i will swear by that stuff. Any morning i wake up with a sore throat or feel bad, take it, next day no signs of sickness. I have yet to get sick after taking echinacia

[Wild Cat McCane]

I think I have seen it 2 or 3 times on the news different researches saying the stuff does nothing. Its just a daisy flower after all, but...

No I never said it does great stuff. However, arginine is great when you need a little boost.

[sCaRz*Of*PaiN]

However, arginine is great when you need a little boost.What kind of boost would that be?

[Wild Cat McCane]

when you are looking in the mirror. I would say looking larger everywhere on your body because of the 'pump' could be called a boost no?

[sCaRz*Of*PaiN]

That's a placebo effect. If it's motivating to you, keep taking it.

[Wild Cat McCane]

placebo? hahaha no. Buddy, there a tons of guys on here that take it during the weekend before going out because it makes you look bigger.

A lot bigger.

[sCaRz*Of*PaiN]

A pump is a placebo effect for motivation. Placebo meaning it doesn't do anything for putting on muscle mass. I don't care about the pump effect. I've taken arginine before for 3 months. I don't think the pump is worth the cost. I also got that "other" side effect from it, which was actually very annoying.

[Wild Cat McCane]

cost? it's probably the cheapest supplement there is.

I guess I could understand your annoyance to the "other" side effect. I actually have a problem that is exact opposite that problem. *****in annoying with the girlfriend.

But yeah, it may not do anything, as I have already said, but that effect of looking a lot larger is kinda a nice lift when you are feeling down.

[sCaRz*Of*PaiN]

Like I said, if you enjoy that effect (and a lot of people do), then keep taking it. I've heard of people taking it prior to a photo shoot because it makes them look pumped and such.



cost? it's probably the cheapest supplement there is.As long as you're buying arginine by itself and not in those awful N0 supps.

[Natetaco]

yep 7$ for me, no biggie.

[methusela]

If you want to use arginine (http://www.theyoungjerk.com/NF-131.html) for improving circulation or growth horomone release, effects start really showing at about 10g a day. This is supported by scientific studies. It is cheaper to buy the powder. Its side effect is diarreah. It is is still one of the most amazing beneficial supplements that I know. Many have argued that it is of no value in bodybuilding, however claims to the contrary have been made in clinical trials. My guess is that even if it doesn't do what you are after, it must benefit bodybuilders simply by increasing blood supply to all that beef! You must agree that if put your body out of balance in this way that extra demands are made on your heart and lungs? So you you need your NO.

[ddegroff]

^So did you happen to read the rest of the thread?

And could you show us these clinical trials that you speak of?

Whey/creatine are much more "amazing" than arginine.