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Monkeybrains
01-27-2002, 06:16 PM
Look what I found:
http://www.notmilk.com/
Anyone seen this site before?

I'm glad I don't consume dairy stuff. :eek:
Or is it bollox?

reso
01-28-2002, 06:48 AM
stfu milk is good:/ dont hate cause your lactose:) :):)

TreeTrunks
01-28-2002, 09:38 AM
Milk and tuna are the best foods on earth! Sounds like hippy new-age crap to me. Eat soy while everyone holds hands and sings cumbaya and express their emotions. :rolleyes:

Bullrider Billy
01-28-2002, 09:40 AM
Those people are more than a little over the top. There are too many inaccuracies and one-sided views to make it believable.

Monkeybrains
01-28-2002, 10:17 AM
Hey, I only drink soy milk instead of cows milk because cows milk gives me stomach ache, not because I think soy is some perfect food (far from it),
but I'm not surprissed it gives me stomach ache if half of that stuff is true.

Anyway, I wasn't talking about the milk vs soy bit, I meant all the stuff about milk being full of pus, hormones, antibiotics, etc..
Also that casein stuff thats used as glue that clogs up all your organs.

reso
01-28-2002, 10:40 AM
soy =estrogenic:/ let me know how bitch tits feel:)

Monkeybrains
01-28-2002, 11:23 AM
Um.. didn't I just say that soy wasn't perfect.
Somehow I don't think I'm going to grow bitch tits though.:rolleyes:

Anyway, it has antiestrogenic effects too.

Also, it says on that site that cows milk and other dairy products contain estrogen.

Monkeybrains
01-28-2002, 05:00 PM
Heres is something I've found on a body building site:

Subject: soy and estrogen

Submitted By: Eric Donovan, Houston, TX

QUESTION: In your book you recommend soy-based products. Doesn't soy increase estrogen levels in men? I remember a study that shows correlation between high consumption of soy and development of "bitch tits."



ROB'S ANSWER:

(Note to Ask Rob readers: "Bitch tits" is gym slang for a medical condition called gynecomastia, marked by growth of female breast tissue in the male, most commonly associated with steroid abuse. Rob does not endorse the use of this crass description of a hormone-related physical abnormality, which regrettably has gained currency in bodybuilding magazines.)

The short answer to your question is no, soy won't raise your estrogen levels nor will it cause gynecomastia. There is a lot of confusion and misinformation surrounding soy. Because soy is a phytoestrogen, people assume that it raises estrogen levels. In fact, evidence suggests that soy may modestly blunt estrogenic activity in women due to competitive receptor-site antagonism with the biologically more active hormonal estrogen. An estrogen-reducing effect in men is less evident, but plausible via anti-aromatase activity (aromatase is the enzyme that converts testosterone to estrogen).

Tryska
01-28-2002, 05:27 PM
rob faigins site.

well rob is wrong. it doesn't blunt estrogenic activity in women.

that is all.

Monkeybrains
01-28-2002, 05:43 PM
Heres something from some other site:

The isoflavones also act as antiestrogens--that is, in opposition to estrogen--and many researchers believe this is why they reduce the risk of breast and endometrial cancer. Estrogen signals cells to proliferate, which is why it can be carcinogenic. Genistein, which has only 1/1,000 the hormonal activity of estrogen, attaches to the breast cells' estrogen receptors and by doing so blocks the more potent female hormone from attaching.3 So in summary, when a woman has little natural estrogen production (post-hysterectomy or postmenopause), isoflavones can attach to open estrogen receptor sites on cells and produce a weak estrogen effect. When there is too much estrogen (during PMS, for example), isoflavones can compete with the natural estrogen for receptor sites, and because their effect is weak in comparison, they blunt the estrogen effect.

Podium Kreatin
01-28-2002, 11:38 PM
argh! soy may have phytoestrogens, but it's not gonna lower ur test! primarily, ppl have to understand that hormones don't handle well in the digestive track, whichis also y many oral steroids hardly ever works at all

aeckhardt
01-29-2002, 07:53 AM
You can buy milk that comes from cow's without added growth hormone's. Basically natural milk. And it doesn't cost much more. They have it in most grocery stores, just look at the cartons.

hemants
01-29-2002, 08:02 AM
Soy milk is relatively low in isoflavones to begin with.

But even in megadoses, there hasn't been a single documented case of isoflavone induced "bitch tits" that I know of in any peer reviewed journal. More of a wives tale I'd say (sry, no pun intended). :)

"ppl have to understand that hormones don't handle well in the digestive track, whichis also y many oral steroids hardly ever works at all"

good point. 1 mg of ephedrine will knock you unconscious if given intravenously; yet oral supplements containing much more than this have no such effect.