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Margin Of Error
07-10-2006, 01:52 PM
I've recently started a new diet of convenience. Essentially it's 1 jar of natty pb + 1 gallon of whole milk a day. Roughly 5600 calories, plenty of protein and fat though I dont have the macros in front of me. I take a multivitamin and supplement with flax, and I will occasionally eat a real meal once every couple days. Can anyone see any serious health complications from doing this long term?

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
07-10-2006, 01:54 PM
You need to eat a variety of foods, not just two things.

laxguy1028
07-10-2006, 02:15 PM
Those are the only two things you eat?

KingWilder
07-10-2006, 02:32 PM
as much as I like natty PB and milk, thinking about ONLY eating those two things makes me sick

Eszekial
07-10-2006, 02:33 PM
Delicious!

Margin Of Error
07-10-2006, 02:58 PM
You need to eat a variety of foods, not just two things.


This is the answer that I expected, but I'm looking for a scientific reason as to why this is true.

laxguy1028
07-10-2006, 03:02 PM
So your body can get a variety of nutrients from a variety of foods to maintain a heathy lifestyle, eating only 2 foods is not healthy for you.

getfit
07-10-2006, 03:03 PM
So your body can get a variety of nutrients from a variety of foods to maintain a heathy lifestyle, eating only 2 foods is not healthy for you.
and i would say, pretty much boring!

Bob
07-10-2006, 03:04 PM
I assume you will be supplementing with various Multi-vitamins, creatine & such??

No matter.. it's still not that healthy.. the anti-oxidants, fiber and such from various foods like fruits, vegetables, whole grains, meats, etc... can not be replaced long term with a bad diet and supps.

Bob
07-10-2006, 03:05 PM
This is the answer that I expected, but I'm looking for a scientific reason as to why this is true.
well.. turn it around.. where is your scientific reason that this diet is sufficient?

Margin Of Error
07-10-2006, 03:05 PM
Your body needs protein, fats and carbs, which I get from food.

Your body needs vitamins and minerals which I get from a multivitamin.

Your body needs essentially fatty acids which I get from flax.


What are these variety of nutrients that I'm missing?

laxguy1028
07-10-2006, 03:07 PM
Why are you so adament about using only these two foods?

Bob
07-10-2006, 03:12 PM
do you really believe that the pills and supplements you take are the most efficient way to deliver nutrients to your body?

Why do most folks on WBB just Eat?
Supplements are made to fill in the gaps.
I take my multi-vitamins because as best as I try, I am not always sure that I have 100% or more of everything I need.. a stop gap.
I take my Nitrean Protein drinks b/c I can't enough enough of the various proteins out there - milk, meat, nuts...

I don't think there is any science that says supps are better then the real thing. But there is building research out there that that fill in the gaps when you can't get everything you need.

Davidelmo
07-10-2006, 03:15 PM
I dont think he's being adamant.. he just said it's a diet of convenience.

I dont think it's unhealthy either.. he IS getting all of the essentials that I can think of off the top of my head.

Margin Of Error
07-10-2006, 03:15 PM
do you really believe that the pills and supplements you take are the most efficient way to deliver nutrients to your body?




Of course I don't. I simply hoping that its an ACCEPTABLE means, not the most efficient or best.


I only eat these two foods because its the only way I can get enough calories to grow. More than 4k calories of solid food and I'm ready to vomit, and I need more than 5k to grow, so its pretty much a requirement if I want to get any bigger.

Davidelmo
07-10-2006, 03:19 PM
^^ He takes flax.. thats a rich source of alpha linoleic acid

Of course, he didn't say how many g per day he's taking

FighterInSnatch
07-10-2006, 03:22 PM
Margin, how long have you been doing this? And how has it affected your body? Lose fat? Gain muscle? I'm just curious, thanks.


Fighter.

Margin Of Error
07-10-2006, 03:33 PM
Margin, how long have you been doing this? And how has it affected your body? Lose fat? Gain muscle? I'm just curious, thanks.


Fighter.


Almost 8 weeks. I'm really loving it to be honest with you, up about 5lb LBM since I started, strength is going up. Very minor increase in BF.

Unreal
07-10-2006, 03:40 PM
I've seen a few people do whey/olive oil/oats/fish oil diets with good success so I don't see why a PB/Milk diet wouldn't work well.

laxguy1028
07-10-2006, 03:40 PM
Why don't you just use those two foods in addition to regular food? and split it up, half of your calories from milk and pb and half from other foods just to get more variety

Anthony
07-10-2006, 03:41 PM
I didn't read every post, so maybe someone has already stated this. It's unhealthy because there are no antioxidants and despite your multivitiman, you're probably running into vitamin and mineral deficancies.

Margin Of Error
07-10-2006, 03:50 PM
I didn't read every post, so maybe someone has already stated this. It's unhealthy because there are no antioxidants and despite your multivitiman, you're probably running into vitamin and mineral deficancies.


Now this is a valid point. I do eat a marginal amount of fruit for this purpose, probably not enough, but there is no RDA for antioxidants so it would be hard for anyone to claim how much is enough.

Stumprrp
07-10-2006, 03:50 PM
yeah i also agree throw in some fruit and vegetables for sure if anything

Davidelmo
07-10-2006, 04:23 PM
Now this is a valid point. I do eat a marginal amount of fruit for this purpose, probably not enough, but there is no RDA for antioxidants so it would be hard for anyone to claim how much is enough.
Maybe consider supplementing vit C and E
Not sure about the dosage of E, but 1000mg C should do the trick

Bob
07-10-2006, 08:33 PM
I didn't read every post, so maybe someone has already stated this. It's unhealthy because there are no antioxidants and despite your multivitiman, you're probably running into vitamin and mineral deficancies.
Dang.. now I know I getting good.. my answer above was close to Anthony's.. :nod:



No matter.. it's still not that healthy.. the anti-oxidants, fiber and such from various foods like fruits, vegetables, whole grains, meats, etc... can not be replaced long term with a bad diet and supps.

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
07-10-2006, 08:34 PM
...and if you can't see why eating nothing but peanut butter and drinking a gallon of milk all day is bad...then...

Beef101
07-10-2006, 09:26 PM
also, protein digestability is poor and also i think alot of essential amino acids are lacking.

but good luck with it all....

Davidelmo
07-11-2006, 05:33 AM
also, protein digestability is poor and also i think alot of essential amino acids are lacking.

but good luck with it all....

Why? Milk contains complete proteins.. all of the amino acids are there.

TheGimp
07-11-2006, 07:07 AM
all of the amino acids are there.

Same with the peanut butter.

Jordanbcool
07-11-2006, 07:32 AM
Why not just drink whole milk all day and dump the peanut butter.

Unless its for the cals.

BTW. I doubt this will work. Im sure theres many different things we have yet to discover about certain foods that are essential to overall health. Maybe not to live (I hate that term). But for your happiness/physical well being........you should atleast get your fruit and veggies in. You should really get in as many other solid foods as you have time for. Your tastebuds will agree after 7 days.

-jordan

Unreal
07-11-2006, 07:52 AM
What do most of us eat for the first months/year we are alive? Nothing but milk straight from the tit. So if a baby can grow and get all its nutrients from milk, why can't an adult? Unless human milk has extra stuff we need that cow milk doesn't provide. Just a thought.

pakse
07-11-2006, 08:47 AM
Howdy,

There are significant problems with that diet (PB, Milk and Flaxseed Oil). I'll list the first 4 reasons why your diet is a horrible choice. I'm not citing the research - go find it - it's not exactly buried.

1. Way too much saturated fat. You've put yourself on a fast track here for heart disease.

2. The added fat is also going to put a load on your liver and potentially could cause liver enzymes to get out of whack which will lead to liver damage.

3. You aren't getting jack for good folate (folic acid in pills is not a substitute for basic amounts of folate). Lack of folate can lead to early-onset dementia. [Please note - folate came to mind first as I'm fixing a spinach salad for myself - there are many other nutriants where the best source is whole foods].

4. Your colon is also taking a big hit from this diet and the fiber sources. While not evil on their own - without any supporting players (spinach, red leaf, marche, red and green bells, etc...) you are setting yourself up for increased risk of colon cancer.

No sane person who has spent even a small amount of time into dietary research will sign-off that this diet of yours is anything other than unhealthy.

You've got an internet connection - look up the research on whole foods and do the math yourself.

What you are doing will have short term success - but serious long term consequences. I would advise it is potentially life threatening.

/rant off

Keep the faith,

Pakse

p.s. Human milk is different from cows milk. A baby has a (first 6 months) has very, very different needs. News flash - bodies change a lot as we age - a 1 year old has fundamentally different needs from a 1 month old. An 18 year old an a 40 year old also have very different needs. (I can't eat the crap the kids at the gym eat :) )

seK
07-11-2006, 09:07 AM
There are also studies that have shown that milk may possibly help the development of osteoporosis and prostate cancer. The jury is still out on this but really though who wants to drink that much milk and eat that much PB. By the end of a month you will probably get sick just at the sight of it.

MantiXX
07-11-2006, 09:34 AM
I dont want to sound weird here, but hows all that PB and milk coming back out? Stool wise?

I'd have the flying you know whats after a day or 2 of that....

We also get a ton of the 'good' bacteria from fresh fruits/veggies (or GOOD yogurt), yet you're getting none of them from Milk or PB (both processed - somewhat)...

If you keep eating only that, you WILL get sick.. The body just isn't made for just that... You can survve on it, but its not optimal (energy/efficiency/growth wise)...

Also, not sure if anyone here is familiar with TCM (traditional chinese medicine - studied a few years ago) and one of their tenets is that food that comes right off the tree/plant/vine etc (or was FRESHLY just killed - meat) has a 'live' quality to it that is essential to life... Personally, there's nothing like fresh produce right from a garden, the store bought just isn't the same...

Anyways, good luck with that..

Peace out...

WildCard
07-11-2006, 10:05 AM
a radical diet, to be sure, but I would not readily condemn it if it has the essential macros in the right amounts.

you do need some fiber though

Margin Of Error
07-11-2006, 11:20 AM
a radical diet, to be sure, but I would not readily condemn it if it has the essential macros in the right amounts.

you do need some fiber though


I get a pretty significant amount of fiber from flaxseeds.

WildCard
07-11-2006, 12:28 PM
I get a pretty significant amount of fiber from flaxseeds.

in that case, you have my blessing. the world's leanest man for years believes/believed in having a set diet, not a variety.

I dont eat a lot of variety either.

whole cottage cheese
natty pb
white rice
chicken thighs
whole grain bread
salt to taste

makes up 95% of my diet(100% some days)

Jordanbcool
07-11-2006, 12:36 PM
Again. If this is an absolute must/need then be my guest.

However there are many different things to consider then just getting recommended macros/calories to build good muscle. If history has shown us one thing and one thing alone its that we know close to nothing about the human body. Yes, we do have extensive knowledge as the years go by but as more and more research is done we realize that some things we do have always been right and some things are dead wrong. Just think about that before you go full swing into this diet. It would be a good thing for convienience but.......so is fast food.

-jordan

p.s. I think this will work for a few months but after that you'll be in for a rude awakening. Your body wasent made to live off two food stuffs for extended periods of time. Im sure you may adapt somewhat, but if you have to go the emergency room because your bowls, heart, liver, mood etc. start acting up. You'll know why. Not trying to be dramatic but its best to be safe then sorry.

McIrish
07-11-2006, 07:48 PM
Yeah, I think I'll just parrot what everyone else said - increased risk of colon cancer due to extreme lack of fiber, increase cancer risk due to complete lack of any antioxidants (get yourself some bell peppers/blueberries/broccoli/raspberries/kale/spinach!), increased risk of heart disease due to an enormous excess of saturated fat, and honestly, I can't see how you're not throwing up at the THOUGHT of peanut-butter-flavored milk at this point. Try this as like 1/3 of your diet (a 'supplement' of sorts).

Beef101
07-12-2006, 12:26 AM
i missed the part where he was going to drink milk aswell...

seK
07-12-2006, 07:33 AM
i missed the part where he was going to drink milk aswell...


I've recently started a new diet of convenience. Essentially it's 1 jar of natty pb + 1 gallon of whole milk a day. ?

Margin Of Error
07-12-2006, 11:19 AM
Yeah, I think I'll just parrot what everyone else said - increased risk of colon cancer due to extreme lack of fiber, increase cancer risk due to complete lack of any antioxidants (get yourself some bell peppers/blueberries/broccoli/raspberries/kale/spinach!), increased risk of heart disease due to an enormous excess of saturated fat, and honestly, I can't see how you're not throwing up at the THOUGHT of peanut-butter-flavored milk at this point. Try this as like 1/3 of your diet (a 'supplement' of sorts).


I get fiber from flaxseeds and antioxidants from vitamin C.


Also 19 year old ectomorphs arent known for getting heart disease that often, regardless of diet.

malkore
07-12-2006, 02:49 PM
Jesus did you even look at the macro ratios?
5568cals 362g fat 328g carbs 324g protien
the fat/carb/protien ratio is 58/19/23
so double the fat you need, low on carbs, and more protein than a steroid pumping elephant on a bulk phase would need.

Sorry but this is the dumbest diet idea I've ever seen.

*edit*
my mistake, I read it as skim milk...
so that gets me a better estimate on the size jar of peanut butter.
32tbsp to a pint of natty peanut butter....

so 5435 cals 392g fat 281g carbs 258g protein or a percentage 63/18/19

Just terrible.

Holto
07-12-2006, 05:15 PM
Just a few random points here.

There are 38 essential nutrients. You're doing your best to get them with this limited diet but consider this:

There are over 100,000 different phytonutrients available in nature. Science has named about 5000 of them. Many of them could prove to have significant value. The only way to come close to getting them all is to vary what we eat.

MagnaSephiroth
07-12-2006, 05:21 PM
p.s. Human milk is different from cows milk. A baby has a (first 6 months) has very, very different needs. News flash - bodies change a lot as we age - a 1 year old has fundamentally different needs from a 1 month old. An 18 year old an a 40 year old also have very different needs. (I can't eat the crap the kids at the gym eat :) )

I am one of those kids and because of stupid knwolage I CANT eat that crap or I feel like crap :( :( :( ignorance is bliss sometimes /sigh

Turnip
07-12-2006, 06:30 PM
I think you should market the idea as a tool for weightloss, lots of woman love these sorts of diets.

MeHoW
07-13-2006, 05:37 PM
So you're roughly getting 400+ grams of fat / day along with 400 grams of pure sugar from milk.

you trying out for a Michelin man in 3 weeks? Or maybe the Pillsbury Dough Boy?

Margin Of Error
07-13-2006, 07:44 PM
So you're roughly getting 400+ grams of fat / day along with 400 grams of pure sugar from milk.

you trying out for a Michelin man in 3 weeks? Or maybe the Pillsbury Dough Boy?


My metabolism is evil, it takes me 5500+ calories to gain whatsoever. I've been eating like this for awhile and my BF is still MUCH lower than it needs to be.

laxguy1028
07-14-2006, 09:12 AM
But why don't you get 5500+ calories from a variety of foods as posted?

Den Fisher
07-14-2006, 09:38 AM
I would advise you not to drink a gallon of milk a day. I drank a gallon a day, ate cheese, cottage cheese too. And developed a bad allergy to dairy that now if I would eat any of it I'll get dermatitis all around my mouth and nose. Soy milk/protein for the win!

seK
07-14-2006, 10:46 AM
My metabolism is evil, it takes me 5500+ calories to gain whatsoever. I've been eating like this for awhile and my BF is still MUCH lower than it needs to be.
There are easier and better ways to get your cals that high.

Margin Of Error
07-14-2006, 11:19 AM
There are easier and better ways to get your cals that high.


Better? Perhaps. Easier? I would like to hear that.

laxguy1028
07-14-2006, 11:33 AM
You can eaisly make a shake with 1500+ cals that takes a couple minutes to drink.

PhilsterT
07-14-2006, 11:41 AM
One problem is that you might become lactose intolerant when you get older. I don't know how much this concerns you though.

LiFtHaTiRoN
07-14-2006, 01:21 PM
Fruits and vegetables have a ton of nutrients and chemicals inside that cant be found in pills, along with the obvious antioxidants that you get in fruits and vegetables, which we all know is an important factor in gaining muscle. Antioxidants help fight off free radicals in the body, and any time you are lifting weights or excersizing you release free radicals. Rethink your diet, are you just going for the simplest things to eat? Try a little more variety.

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
07-14-2006, 02:16 PM
Fruits and vegetables have a ton of nutrients and chemicals inside that cant be found in pillsYou mean "phytochemicals", right?

Paladyr
07-15-2006, 08:47 PM
I don't believe your body actually absorbs all of the vitamins in a multivitamin pill, so while the bottle tells you that you are getting 100% of so and so vitamins, you won't actually get it.

On paper it appears fine... but still, I would be very nervous about doing this long term. Scientists don't know everything, and still recommend getting your vitamins from foods rather than a pill.

Davidelmo
07-16-2006, 04:07 PM
You can eaisly make a shake with 1500+ cals that takes a couple minutes to drink.
And the main contituents will probably be milk.



So you're roughly getting 400+ grams of fat / day along with 400 grams of pure sugar from milk.

you trying out for a Michelin man in 3 weeks? Or maybe the Pillsbury Dough Boy?

How will this diet make him any more fat than the same number of calories from a "balanced" diet?



Jesus did you even look at the macro ratios?
5568cals 362g fat 328g carbs 324g protien
the fat/carb/protien ratio is 58/19/23
so double the fat you need, low on carbs, and more protein than a steroid pumping elephant on a bulk phase would need.

Sorry but this is the dumbest diet idea I've ever seen.

*edit*
my mistake, I read it as skim milk...
so that gets me a better estimate on the size jar of peanut butter.
32tbsp to a pint of natty peanut butter....

so 5435 cals 392g fat 281g carbs 258g protein or a percentage 63/18/19

Just terrible.


How is this terrible? He has enough protein to support growth and enough calories for him to gain.
At 5500kcal a day, of course the macro values will be high. Yet you're saying his protein is too high, his fats are too high and his carbs are too low... what are you basing this on? Carbs aren't even essential.
Then you quote the ratio... your body can't do maths - the ratio doesn't matter at all.

Best post so far has been Holtos... its the best reason yet for why a "balanced" diet is better.

RedSpikeyThing
07-16-2006, 09:13 PM
And the main contituents will probably be milk.



You can make a 1500 cal shake with two cups of whole milk (plus all the other ****, obviously). Yes that makes milk the main constituent, but it's hardly enough milk to worry about.

On a side note, I find it interesting how difficult it is to prive that this diet is unhealthy. I believe it is, but I don't know how to go about showing that!

seK
07-16-2006, 09:41 PM
You can make a 1500 cal shake with two cups of whole milk (plus all the other ****, obviously). Yes that makes milk the main constituent, but it's hardly enough milk to worry about.

On a side note, I find it interesting how difficult it is to prive that this diet is unhealthy. I believe it is, but I don't know how to go about showing that!
Its been proven multiple times in this thread already. :/

Margin Of Error
07-17-2006, 12:53 AM
Its been proven multiple times in this thread already. :/


Guess I need to work on reading comprehension then.


Just to give everyone an update, the diet is still going well. In fact my skin has actually started clearing up really nicely, I had some moderate acne going on from the summer heat and it has almost completely gone away since I started the diet. I would attribute it to all the healthy fats in the pb but I cant be sure. Anyways strength and lean mass are still going up, I've got tons of energy and my past couple workouts have been good. I'm interested in seeing how much more weight I can put on in the next 6 weeks without upping total cals.

Davidelmo
07-17-2006, 10:51 AM
Its been proven multiple times in this thread already. :/
Where?

Beast
07-17-2006, 11:47 AM
You don't get constipated?

JustLost
07-17-2006, 03:16 PM
You don't get constipated?


That jar of peanut butter provides about 28 grams of fiber, so he ought to be okay there. Not saying it's a good idea, mind you...

Margin Of Error
07-17-2006, 03:33 PM
You don't get constipated?



Ironically I actually spend much less time on the can since starting the diet.

Stumprrp
07-17-2006, 04:49 PM
this is one crazy thread man! LOL! honestly, i would consult a TOP NOTCH doctor/scientist/nutritionist on this one. obviously none of us are any of those, i think?

Paladyr
07-17-2006, 05:44 PM
Where?

1. He won't be getting any phytonutrients.
2. Your body doesn't absorb all of the multi-vitamin so he's not actually getting 100% of all those vitamins.
3. Scientists don't know everything. That's why it's important to get a wide range of foods and not limit it to 2. I don't think there have been any long term studies of people only eating only a select few foods.

I guess the real question is what do you care about? Do you only care about how you look, and pushing up more weight every week? If so, then the diet could work fine. If you are concerned with longevity (lifespan), then I would not recommend this diet. There's a reason you don't hear scientists saying "screw eating fruits and vegetables, just take a multi-vitamin and be done with it." It's because they know some of the things your body will be missing out on (#1) and don't know exactly how that would affect you in the long run.

That's my .02

Margin Of Error
07-17-2006, 06:04 PM
1. He won't be getting any phytonutrients.
2. Your body doesn't absorb all of the multi-vitamin so he's not actually getting 100% of all those vitamins.
3. Scientists don't know everything. That's why it's important to get a wide range of foods and not limit it to 2. I don't think there have been any long term studies of people only eating only a select few foods.

I guess the real question is what do you care about? Do you only care about how you look, and pushing up more weight every week?


1. Flaxseeds are actually an excellent source of isoflavones (phytoestrogens), one of the most important groups of phytonutrients.

2. By this logic I could solve that problem by taking 2 multivitamins.

3. It might be important, it might not. If you think about it from a evolutionary standpoint, early man probably ate very few foods, and they managed to survive despite having no modern knowledge of health or nutrition.

Stumprrp
07-17-2006, 06:28 PM
maybe lack of complex carbs? i also just did the math and it came out to 350 grams of fat, how are you not getting SUPER fat dude lol.

RedSpikeyThing
07-17-2006, 06:35 PM
Ironically I actually spend much less time on the can since starting the diet.

constipated = not pooping

I don't think that's ironic at all.

RedSpikeyThing
07-17-2006, 06:36 PM
Guess I need to work on reading comprehension then.


Just to give everyone an update, the diet is still going well. In fact my skin has actually started clearing up really nicely, I had some moderate acne going on from the summer heat and it has almost completely gone away since I started the diet. I would attribute it to all the healthy fats in the pb but I cant be sure. Anyways strength and lean mass are still going up, I've got tons of energy and my past couple workouts have been good. I'm interested in seeing how much more weight I can put on in the next 6 weeks without upping total cals.

It's been shown that what you eat has little/no effect on acne. It is more likely your skin getting used to the weather. Changes in climate tend to provoke acne breakouts.

Margin Of Error
07-17-2006, 06:52 PM
maybe lack of complex carbs? i also just did the math and it came out to 350 grams of fat, how are you not getting SUPER fat dude lol.


Cause fat doesnt make you fat, excess calories do. Since I'm only eating about 500 calories above my mainteance I'm not gaining weight very quickly, hence little to no fat gain.

Margin Of Error
07-17-2006, 06:53 PM
It's been shown that what you eat has little/no effect on acne. It is more likely your skin getting used to the weather. Changes in climate tend to provoke acne breakouts.


I dont think you can generalize like that, my skin reacts very dramatically to changes in diet.

Stumprrp
07-17-2006, 07:02 PM
theres 400 grams or so in a pound, and i doubt you burn that much a day, thats all im saying, thats pretty insane. ive never ever heard of a diet like this especially one that is working

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
07-17-2006, 08:17 PM
theres 400 grams or so in a pound453.59237 :thumbup:

Built
07-17-2006, 08:20 PM
1. Flaxseeds are actually an excellent source of isoflavones (phytoestrogens), one of the most important groups of phytonutrients.

Unfortunately, they're also a goitrogen, and flax oil has been implicated in causing prostate problems in men.

Bob
07-17-2006, 08:39 PM
Unfortunately, they're also a goitrogen, and flax oil has been implicated in causing prostate problems in men.
REALLY???
Dang built.. I've been taking a lot of Flax lately.. and thought it was so super good for me..
Can you point to those those studies? Or let me know if there is a safe amount I can take? BIG thanks..

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
07-17-2006, 08:49 PM
A safe amount is none.

Davidelmo
07-18-2006, 02:17 AM
1. He won't be getting any phytonutrients.
2. Your body doesn't absorb all of the multi-vitamin so he's not actually getting 100% of all those vitamins.
3. Scientists don't know everything. That's why it's important to get a wide range of foods and not limit it to 2. I don't think there have been any long term studies of people only eating only a select few foods.

I guess the real question is what do you care about? Do you only care about how you look, and pushing up more weight every week? If so, then the diet could work fine. If you are concerned with longevity (lifespan), then I would not recommend this diet. There's a reason you don't hear scientists saying "screw eating fruits and vegetables, just take a multi-vitamin and be done with it." It's because they know some of the things your body will be missing out on (#1) and don't know exactly how that would affect you in the long run.

That's my .02

Yes, but none of those things have been PROVEN. Everyone is just speculating and not proving anything.

People are just saying "oh, you dont get everything in a pill", "not enough fibre," "phytonutrients" etc etc, but not really backing anything up. Plus, most of those points can be contested. The multivitamin accounts for the most common vitamins and minerals (if you dont absorb 100%, take 2-3 spaced out through the day.)

I'm sure the diet probably isn't the most healthy, but it accomplishes his goals. It's only a temporary thing and I'm sure a 19yr old isn't going to drop dead. That diet isn't as bad as what a lot of people eat every day. A constant diet of coca cola and McDonalds is just as bad IMO.

The best answer probably is that we don't know everything and it's good to cover all of your bases by eating varied food. However, for a few months of bulking, i doubt that missing some phytonutrient is going to make a lot of difference.

seK
07-18-2006, 06:04 AM
Yes, but none of those things have been PROVEN. Everyone is just speculating and not proving anything.

People are just saying "oh, you dont get everything in a pill", "not enough fibre," "phytonutrients" etc etc, but not really backing anything up. Plus, most of those points can be contested. The multivitamin accounts for the most common vitamins and minerals (if you dont absorb 100%, take 2-3 spaced out through the day.)

I'm sure the diet probably isn't the most healthy, but it accomplishes his goals. It's only a temporary thing and I'm sure a 19yr old isn't going to drop dead. That diet isn't as bad as what a lot of people eat every day. A constant diet of coca cola and McDonalds is just as bad IMO.

The best answer probably is that we don't know everything and it's good to cover all of your bases by eating varied food. However, for a few months of bulking, i doubt that missing some phytonutrient is going to make a lot of difference.

You can't "prove" anything since everyone would react differently, the correct answer is there are many possible side affects to this diet and its best imo to avoid even flirting with them.

McIrish
07-18-2006, 08:31 AM
I dont think you can generalize like that, my skin reacts very dramatically to changes in diet.

It seems that recent studies should prove that statement wrong, if anything. To paraphrase an article by Harvard researchers in the American Journal of Dermatology, "certain foods, in particular dairy products, have been shown to exacerbate acne." I believe they reported no other positive correlation, and certainly no negative correlation (ie, drinking more milk somehow CLEARS up your skin).

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/11/health/nutrition/11real.html?ex=1153368000&en=cead42aa049107a3&ei=5087%0A

fixationdarknes
07-18-2006, 02:13 PM
theres 400 grams or so in a pound, and i doubt you burn that much a day, thats all im saying, thats pretty insane. ive never ever heard of a diet like this especially one that is working

The macronutrient "fat" does not simply cause you to gain fat. If you don't eat more calories than you burn (with plenty of fat calories) and enough protein, you will not gain fat.

(A bit off-topic but I thought I'd clear it up).

--Margin, I've actually thought of the idea of pb/milk diet before. But I'm not an expert in diet so I would never try it myself unless I knew it would work.

Stumprrp
07-18-2006, 02:36 PM
i guess that makes sense. this really is driving me crazy we need to figure if this diet is good or bad RIGHT NOW!! lol

laxguy1028
07-18-2006, 02:54 PM
My only question is why don't you have some oats,eggs,tuna, turkey, etc. in addition to the milk and pb. Milk and pb can be the base but add the other foods for some variety, I would get sick of that diet after a day.

RedSpikeyThing
07-18-2006, 03:56 PM
It seems that recent studies should prove that statement wrong, if anything. To paraphrase an article by Harvard researchers in the American Journal of Dermatology, "certain foods, in particular dairy products, have been shown to exacerbate acne." I believe they reported no other positive correlation, and certainly no negative correlation (ie, drinking more milk somehow CLEARS up your skin).

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/11/health/nutrition/11real.html?ex=1153368000&en=cead42aa049107a3&ei=5087%0A

That's cool. So dairy (namely skim milk) has been associated with increased acne. So maybe a galon of milk per day isn't a great idea...or at least make it whole milk.

Davidelmo
07-18-2006, 04:32 PM
i guess that makes sense. this really is driving me crazy we need to figure if this diet is good or bad RIGHT NOW!! lol

It's neither good nor bad IMO.

In guess in summary we could say:
Will it work (i.e. will he gain muscle?) - yes, so long as his workouts etc are ok. He has enough protein to support muscle growth and enough calories to gain weight - therefore he can accomplish his goals.
Is it healthy? - not in the long term, but I doubt a couple months of this will cause any problems.

malkore
07-18-2006, 04:41 PM
Yes, but none of those things have been PROVEN. Everyone is just speculating and not proving anything.

..

I'm sure the diet probably isn't the most healthy, but it accomplishes his goals. It's only a temporary thing and I'm sure a 19yr old isn't going to drop dead. That diet isn't as bad as what a lot of people eat every day. A constant diet of coca cola and McDonalds is just as bad IMO.


So first you say we're all making crap up...then you admit his diet isn't healthy.

Pick a side of the fence, or shush. Also, carbs are necessary for energy and for bulking, so his macro ratios being all f**ked up IS a big deal.

Davidelmo
07-18-2006, 04:46 PM
So first you say we're all making crap up...then you admit his diet isn't healthy.

Pick a side of the fence, or shush. Also, carbs are necessary for energy and for bulking, so his macro ratios being all f**ked up IS a big deal.

It's probably NOT healthy, but no-one has actually proven otherwise particularly well.

Why are carbs essential for bulking?
edit: I dont think I ever said this was healthy, but I rather like challenging anyone to prove it unhealthy.. it's pretty difficult IMO

Geeper
07-18-2006, 05:19 PM
WOW, I so want to try this now. It would be SO easy. Good morning, I eat that jar today and that container of milk. Pop a couple of multi's, drink lots of water, maybe some aminos and I'm golden.

I am honestly so temped.......

Davidelmo
07-18-2006, 05:41 PM
^^ You don't need aminos if you're getting 300g+ protein from the milk and PB

Geeper
07-18-2006, 06:03 PM
^^ You don't need aminos if you're getting 300g+ protein from the milk and PB

AH, I was thinking post-workout for a quick infusion... but even better and CHEAPER if you don't need them....

PhilsterT
07-18-2006, 06:29 PM
My post seems to have been lost on page 3 from somewhere. But, a deffinite long-term side-effect would be the fact that you could become lactose-intolerant, especially if doing this for long period of times as a kid. For the short term, it sounds like it will be fine (not so much yummy though).

nawmean
07-18-2006, 06:38 PM
What? How could you 'become lactose-intolerant'? Isn't it all a matter of genetics?

JustLost
07-18-2006, 06:44 PM
It's probably NOT healthy, but no-one has actually proven otherwise particularly well.


That's what's making the discussion interesting and maybe even a bit enlightening. ;)

Built
07-18-2006, 06:50 PM
Jesus did you even look at the macro ratios?
5568cals 362g fat 328g carbs 324g protien
the fat/carb/protien ratio is 58/19/23
so double the fat you need, low on carbs, and more protein than a steroid pumping elephant on a bulk phase would need.

Sorry but this is the dumbest diet idea I've ever seen.

*edit*
my mistake, I read it as skim milk...
so that gets me a better estimate on the size jar of peanut butter.
32tbsp to a pint of natty peanut butter....

so 5435 cals 392g fat 281g carbs 258g protein or a percentage 63/18/19

Just terrible.

Also, carbs are necessary for energy and for bulking, so his macro ratios being all f**ked up IS a big deal.


Malkore, why do you think the macronutrient ratios matter? His mins are getting hit for the essentials (protein and fat), and this is hardly ketogenic - there's lots of carb in this diet.

Margin Of Error
07-18-2006, 07:32 PM
My only question is why don't you have some oats,eggs,tuna, turkey, etc. in addition to the milk and pb. Milk and pb can be the base but add the other foods for some variety, I would get sick of that diet after a day.


Those things require A. preparation and B. chewing. Neither of which I am very fond of.

PhilsterT
07-18-2006, 08:03 PM
I did not think lactose-intolerance was genetic because everyone I know who has it said that when they were young they were dairy-queens. (Hah hah, I crack myself up.)

Paladyr
07-18-2006, 08:52 PM
3. It might be important, it might not. If you think about it from a evolutionary standpoint, early man probably ate very few foods, and they managed to survive despite having no modern knowledge of health or nutrition.


HAHAHAHHAHAAH was that a joke???? I'm sorry I cracked up when I read that. Early man lived until they were like 20 hahahahahahhahaha. Oh man that's hilarious. Is that kind of lifespan okay for you?

Paladyr
07-18-2006, 08:53 PM
Yes, but none of those things have been PROVEN. Everyone is just speculating and not proving anything.

People are just saying "oh, you dont get everything in a pill", "not enough fibre," "phytonutrients" etc etc, but not really backing anything up. Plus, most of those points can be contested. The multivitamin accounts for the most common vitamins and minerals (if you dont absorb 100%, take 2-3 spaced out through the day.)

I'm sure the diet probably isn't the most healthy, but it accomplishes his goals. It's only a temporary thing and I'm sure a 19yr old isn't going to drop dead. That diet isn't as bad as what a lot of people eat every day. A constant diet of coca cola and McDonalds is just as bad IMO.

The best answer probably is that we don't know everything and it's good to cover all of your bases by eating varied food. However, for a few months of bulking, i doubt that missing some phytonutrient is going to make a lot of difference.


We can't prove everything b/c the human race doesn't know everything lol. I think a lot of great reasons for not continuing this diet for an extended period of time have been mentioned. The entire basis for saying this diet is okay is based on the assumption that we know exactly what our body needs!!!! Do you not see the flaw in this reasoning???? hahahahahaha. I'm cracking up.

Humans have a LOT to learn. Forming a diet based on 2 foods b/c it covers most of what we as humans *think* we need is not a good idea lol.

Mercuryblade
07-18-2006, 10:13 PM
If you don't eat more calories than you burn (with plenty of fat calories) and enough protein, you will not gain fat.

Not quite true, bad body recomp during cuts can happen if you aren't doing things like watching the GI of your foods.

Built
07-18-2006, 10:14 PM
...or fructose ...

Slim Schaedle
07-18-2006, 11:03 PM
Also, carbs are necessary for energy and for bulking, so his macro ratios being all f**ked up IS a big deal.
Just echoing Built's question about this

Hockey66
07-18-2006, 11:20 PM
We can't prove everything b/c the human race doesn't know everything lol. I think a lot of great reasons for not continuing this diet for an extended period of time have been mentioned. The entire basis for saying this diet is okay is based on the assumption that we know exactly what our body needs!!!! Do you not see the flaw in this reasoning???? hahahahahaha. I'm cracking up.

Humans have a LOT to learn. Forming a diet based on 2 foods b/c it covers most of what we as humans *think* we need is not a good idea lol.

hahahahahahahahahaha lololol rilly???

Science has proven many things, and I'm sure it could prove whether this diet is (un)healthy. It probably already has been proven somewhere, the knowledge just isn't on this forum.


hahahaha hehehehehehehe hahahahaha lolz!!!11

trfe
07-18-2006, 11:26 PM
How is your day so busy that all you can eat is a jar of PB and milk? Are you just really cheap and don't want to spend money on food?
I think your term "diet of convenience" is crap. What kind of freak are you that you travel throughout your day with a jar of peanut butter and a jug of milk?

Too much of anything is bad for you. Sure you probably get tons of PB but i doubt you're getting any SEX.

This whole topic is retar*d, I had to respond though. Personally i think you're full of sh*t and this is all a joke to you.

trfe
07-18-2006, 11:33 PM
hahahahahahahahahaha lololol rilly???

Science has proven many things, and I'm sure it could prove whether this diet is (un)healthy. It probably already has been proven somewhere, the knowledge just isn't on this forum.


hahahaha hehehehehehehe hahahahaha lolz!!!11


Humans have a lot to learn? What is this philosphy class? It seems to me 90% of the humans who have responded think this kid is a moron. So as far as that goes, humans understand that such an extreme diet is idiotic and not a good idea if you want to continue walking around with the other humans.

by the end of the day this kid must have PB all crammed under his fingernails, all around his lips, and if he rubs his fingers together he will be able to ball up littls balls of peanut butter residue.

Imagine when a girl comes over to his place and she opens the fridge? 5 gallons of milk and 10 jars of peanut butter! HA! I would love to see the look on her face.

Hey buddy does the PB look the same when it goes in as when it comes out?

Slim Schaedle
07-18-2006, 11:46 PM
trfe, at 27 years old, I would think your posts might be a little more mature.

That's just me though.


On another note, I have been in plenty of situations where employing a diet like this would have been awesome, in regards to time constraints.

JustLost
07-19-2006, 06:49 AM
trfe, at 27 years old, I would think your posts might be a little more mature.

That's just me though.


It's not just you.

Holto
07-19-2006, 11:16 AM
The guys looking at this as convenient should read some of the threads/journals from the dudes here doing liquid diets.

The cornerstone of which is grinding oats to blend into the drink. Much healthier that just doing this.

To the guys who are using the word proof please realize,

nothing can ever be proven or disproven scientifically,

we can only indicate tendencies.

The scientific method is based on formulating a hypothesis and then trying to make it fail. If it doesn't fail it merely lives to fight another day.

Margin Of Error
07-19-2006, 11:22 AM
How is your day so busy that all you can eat is a jar of PB and milk? Are you just really cheap and don't want to spend money on food?
I think your term "diet of convenience" is crap. What kind of freak are you that you travel throughout your day with a jar of peanut butter and a jug of milk?

Too much of anything is bad for you. Sure you probably get tons of PB but i doubt you're getting any SEX.

This whole topic is retar*d, I had to respond though. Personally i think you're full of sh*t and this is all a joke to you.


Haha this is great, I think someone is getting jealous. I dont travel throughout my day with a jar of pb and milk. I sit at work for 8+ hours every day with nothing but a fridge, since I dont like preparing real meals ahead of time it's simpler and easier for me to lick 4 tbsp of pb off a spoon and drink a couple cups of milk every hour or so.

Holto
07-19-2006, 11:24 AM
Not quite true, bad body recomp during cuts can happen if you aren't doing things like watching the GI of your foods.

Were gonna need you to explain that.

Chosing high GI foods might make you more hungry but to say it will impact your body composition to the extent that you are gaining fat during a caloric deficit is utterly _______.

Margin Of Error
07-19-2006, 11:27 AM
The guys looking at this as convenient should read some of the threads/journals from the dudes here doing liquid diets.

The cornerstone of which is grinding oats to blend into the drink. Much healthier that just doing this.




I've done a liquid diet in the past. I can finish my meal in the amount of time it takes someone to get the ingredients in the cup ready to blend.

Also, oats are simply carbs/fiber, of which I am already getting plenty, I don't see how eating 200g of carbs from oats is any healthier than 200g of carbs from pb.

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
07-19-2006, 02:03 PM
You can be a guinea pig for your diet. Just let us know what happens 5 years from now. Only you can choose the way you want to eat.

malkore
07-19-2006, 03:13 PM
Just echoing Built's question about this

Maybe I'm completely behind the research on this (having been out of the loop for 2 years) but I always read, and was told, that carbs are very anabolic..that when bulking up...carbs are what should be increased the most...not protein..protein around 1-1.5g per pound of body weight is all you need, but blast carbs up to 3g per pound of bodyweight on a bulk.

as for the comment on macro ratios being out of whack...they are. way way way too much fat. that diet puts you on the road to a massive heart attack at an early age. And that info is coming from the heart surgeons my wife works with at the Nebraska heart institute.

RedSpikeyThing
07-19-2006, 04:06 PM
nothing can ever be proven or disproven scientifically,


You can disprove things by showing one counter example. You can't, however, prove anything true. You can show strong tendancies, correlations, etc. But there may always be another plausible explanation which you don't know about yet.

RedSpikeyThing
07-19-2006, 04:07 PM
Maybe I'm completely behind the research on this (having been out of the loop for 2 years) but I always read, and was told, that carbs are very anabolic..that when bulking up...carbs are what should be increased the most...not protein..protein around 1-1.5g per pound of body weight is all you need, but blast carbs up to 3g per pound of bodyweight on a bulk.

as for the comment on macro ratios being out of whack...they are. way way way too much fat. that diet puts you on the road to a massive heart attack at an early age. And that info is coming from the heart surgeons my wife works with at the Nebraska heart institute.

As far as I know, you need to hit your minimum amounts of protein, fat, and carbs. Once those have been met, you can boost whatever else you want. Carbs tend to be the easiest to eat a lot of, so that makes them a better choice on a bulk.

Holto
07-19-2006, 04:42 PM
You can disprove things by showing one counter example.

You don't get it. Few people do, yet we all sat in grade 6 science and were taught that nothing can be proven or disproven.

Keep reading.

Holto
07-19-2006, 04:43 PM
I've done a liquid diet in the past. I can finish my meal in the amount of time it takes someone to get the ingredients in the cup ready to blend.

The thing about the liquid diet was not directed at you.

McIrish
07-19-2006, 05:30 PM
1. Flaxseeds are actually an excellent source of isoflavones (phytoestrogens), one of the most important groups of phytonutrients.

2. By this logic I could solve that problem by taking 2 multivitamins.

3. It might be important, it might not. If you think about it from a evolutionary standpoint, early man probably ate very few foods, and they managed to survive despite having no modern knowledge of health or nutrition.


O RLY? I don't think you would be content if you had the life expectancy of "early man."

I just have one more question for the OP. You still have not answered (to my satisfaction) how you plan to account for the deficiency of antioxidants in your diet, which might be mitigated by a more balanced diet (read: through eating tomatoes, kale, berries, etc.). Thus, you should be at a higher cancer risk than someone with a more varied diet.

Mind you, I understand that this is not a long-term plan (thus rendering the transient lack of antioxidants a passing concern), and you are primarily concerned with a short-term, convenient solution and weight/muscle gains. Just please do not delude yourself to think that this is somehow a sustainable alternative. In the meantime, drink away!

I cringe every time I think of someone who says "Well, screw eating healthy, I'll just drink straight milk+protein for the next 6 months!!1!11!!!1" Yes, in that short period of time you will probably build some muscle. However, the effects of such a limited diet will probably only manifest themselves after a lifetime of compounding such poor diet choices.

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
07-19-2006, 05:33 PM
O RLY? I don't think you would be content if you had the life expectancy of "early man."Wasn't it like 30-40 years?

Margin Of Error
07-19-2006, 06:59 PM
I just have one more question for the OP. You still have not answered (to my satisfaction) how you plan to account for the deficiency of antioxidants in your diet, which might be mitigated by a more balanced diet (read: through eating tomatoes, kale, berries, etc.).




Vitamin C.

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
07-19-2006, 07:33 PM
That's not the end all answer.

Mercuryblade
07-19-2006, 07:38 PM
Were gonna need you to explain that.

Chosing high GI foods might make you more hungry but to say it will impact your body composition to the extent that you are gaining fat during a caloric deficit is utterly _______.

During a caloric deficit if you aren't treating your body in the 'right' ways, you can lose muscle and keep/even gain fat(depending on how your body responds to various things). There is more to losing weight than calories. Read the carbohydrate manifesto, it's an article on the forums. EDIT: (That last sentence was written dryly, but not intended to sound smug.)

Built
07-19-2006, 07:40 PM
Maybe I'm completely behind the research on this (having been out of the loop for 2 years) but I always read, and was told, that carbs are very anabolic..that when bulking up...carbs are what should be increased the most...not protein..protein around 1-1.5g per pound of body weight is all you need, but blast carbs up to 3g per pound of bodyweight on a bulk.
Depends how insulin resistant you are. This isn't something I'd do.




as for the comment on macro ratios being out of whack...they are. way way way too much fat.

Except you're assuming that the ratios mean something.

They don't.



that diet puts you on the road to a massive heart attack at an early age.
How? He's an athlete eating healthy fats, not a couch potato eating trans fats.


And that info is coming from the heart surgeons my wife works with at the Nebraska heart institute.

Fair enough.

Are you aware that the American Heart Association Step I diet has actually been clinically shown to make your lipid profile WORSE?

I had total cholesterol that came down when, under the advice of my physician, I did Atkins 5 years ago:

Total cholesterol went from 6 mmol/dL to 3.5 mmol/dL (232 mg/dL to 135 mg/dL) - with about 65% of my total calories from fat, much of it saturated.

Oh, and I dropped about 35 lbs and went off Metformin.

I'm not at ALL sure about the so-called lipid hypothesis. It certainly didn't hold for me. Or for any of the other people I know who used this same diet.

Carbs are anabolic because of the insulin response they provide: insulin blunts cortisol, and, of course, it's a storage hormone. But chronically elevated levels of insulin are pro-inflammatory, and that has been linked with any number of health problems, one of which is coronary heart disease.

In short, I don't really think that observational data based on heart patients can be generalized to a population of young strength athletes.

My .02

malkore
07-20-2006, 02:27 PM
Built,

fair enough. I don't have facts to counter-argue your points.

this is exactly why I'm looking into getting NSCA's CSCS certification. not that its the end all be all of training knowledge, but I've read too many BS articles over the years that contradict each other, plus being out of it for 3 years.

RedSpikeyThing
07-20-2006, 03:41 PM
You don't get it. Few people do, yet we all sat in grade 6 science and were taught that nothing can be proven or disproven.


We were all taught you can't prove anything. I can bring up a counter example to any theory and it is wrong because it didn't account for that particular case. Ex: I find a triangle where a*a + b*b = c*c is not true, therefore Pythagoras' theorem is proven incorrect.


PS I only posted this because I PMed Holto and didn't get a response. Could someone else clarify this please?

Built
07-20-2006, 03:50 PM
Built,

fair enough. I don't have facts to counter-argue your points.

this is exactly why I'm looking into getting NSCA's CSCS certification. not that its the end all be all of training knowledge, but I've read too many BS articles over the years that contradict each other, plus being out of it for 3 years.

It is SO hard to sort it all out.

I think I'll go to my grave trying.

SOOOooo much BS out there <sigh>

McIrish
07-20-2006, 05:41 PM
We were all taught you can't prove anything. I can bring up a counter example to any theory and it is wrong because it didn't account for that particular case. Ex: I find a triangle where a*a + b*b = c*c is not true, therefore Pythagoras' theorem is proven incorrect.

PS I only posted this because I PMed Holto and didn't get a response. Could someone else clarify this please?

Now, not to be a bastard, but here is what the dictionary has to say about Pythagoras' theorem (and please feel free to supply a different definition if you find this one lacking in any way).

"In any right triangle, the area of the square whose side is the hypotenuse (the side of a right triangle opposite the right angle) is equal to the sum of areas of the squares whose sides are the two legs (i.e. the two sides other than the hypotenuse). "

I would be HIGHLY interested for you to supply a triangle for which "a" and "b" represent the length of the legs and for which "c" represents the length of the hypotenuse for whom the formula a*a + b*b = c*c does not universally hold true.

Built
07-20-2006, 06:08 PM
Can't happen. Not in 2-d space. The triangle would have to not be a right angle triangle, in which case there really isn't a hypoteneuse.

Note, of course, that Pythagoras' theorum is really a special case of Cosine law:

c^2 = a^2 + b^2 - 2abCosC

Where angle C is 90 degrees, Cos(C) is zero, and we get Pythagoras.

Slim Schaedle
07-20-2006, 06:23 PM
<---------- Hates math, and whatever y'all are talking about

RedSpikeyThing
07-20-2006, 09:31 PM
Now, not to be a bastard, but here is what the dictionary has to say about Pythagoras' theorem (and please feel free to supply a different definition if you find this one lacking in any way).

"In any right triangle, the area of the square whose side is the hypotenuse (the side of a right triangle opposite the right angle) is equal to the sum of areas of the squares whose sides are the two legs (i.e. the two sides other than the hypotenuse). "

I would be HIGHLY interested for you to supply a triangle for which "a" and "b" represent the length of the legs and for which "c" represents the length of the hypotenuse for whom the formula a*a + b*b = c*c does not universally hold true.

You are right, but it was a hypothetical situation to illustrate my point.

On a side note, if it is proveable, why is it referred to as a theorem and not a law?

Oh yeah, back to my original point: you can disprove things by a counter example,

Built
07-20-2006, 10:31 PM
You are right, but it was a hypothetical situation to illustrate my point.

On a side note, if it is proveable, why is it referred to as a theorem and not a law?

Oh yeah, back to my original point: you can disprove things by a counter example,
In math, the term "theorem" basically means we are 100% certain, and we can prove it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theorem

Beast
07-23-2006, 03:42 PM
That jar of peanut butter provides about 28 grams of fiber, so he ought to be okay there. Not saying it's a good idea, mind you...
Even though it has fiber, I always get pretty constipated if I have a jar of peanut butter to eat in a day. :mad:

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
07-23-2006, 03:55 PM
Is this natural peanut butter or regular peanut butter?

laxguy1028
07-23-2006, 04:18 PM
natty, it says it in the first sentence

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
07-23-2006, 05:35 PM
5 pages went by, so I forgot. :bang:

ncsuLuke
07-23-2006, 06:07 PM
this is the dumbest diet i have ever heard of

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwinism