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View Full Version : What's a clean bulk then?



Marnie
07-13-2006, 03:08 PM
As far as I know, you can only bulk gaining fat AND muscle, with fat gains being higher than muscle. So what's a clean bulk?

Unreal
07-13-2006, 03:11 PM
Fat gains don't have to be higher then muscle. That all depends on many things. A clean bulk is a bulk with "clean" foods. Basically staying away from junk food, HFCS, deep fried stuff, etc. A dirty bulk would be eating anything to get the calories. Ice cream, cookies, frieds, etc.

If you train correctly, have the correct macros, and eat slightly over maintanence then most of your gains should be muscle. If you eat alot over maintanence, then you'll gain more muscle, but also more fat.

Davidelmo
07-13-2006, 04:11 PM
Clean or dirty bulking doesn't have an effect on the amount of muscle/fat you gain though. As long as the correct grams of fat, protein etc are there it doesn't matter too much.

Dirty is usually more unhealthy for other reasons - more trans fats etc etc

THEREALDEAL
07-13-2006, 04:43 PM
There are 4 main criteria to maintaining a healthy "GET BIG" diet.

1) Sufficient amount of high-quality protein: I am sure you know this is the most important factor in building muscle. Muscle growth also leads to an overall higher metabolism, which in turn burns fat!! The best way to get high-quality protein is through meat, fish, poultry, and milk products. I'd recommend a pretty high protein diet. Between 1.5-2.0 grams/lb. of bodyweight per day. Protein shakes are a good help for this high amount but don't rely on them! (eg. if you weigh 200lbs. then consume between 250g-400g of protein)

2) Sufficient amount of complex carbohydrates: For energy and metabolism. Good ones are oats, rice, whole wheat bread, noodles, etc... eat between 2-2.5 grams/lb. of bodyweight per day of these.

3) Be sure you are eating enough calories: A calorie intake in the range of 5000 calories is needed if you are interested in getting BIG. Ever heard the saying "Eat big... Get big" Of course eating big isn't the only thing that will get you big. You have to eat high-quality food and spend the time in the gym. You can't get something for nothing.

4) Eat according to the clock: This is probably the most important because of the amount of discipline it takes. You should eat 6-7 meals a day. They should be medium sized meals and obviously contain high-quality food (not McDonalds hehehe). Eat according to your workout as well. Always workout on an empty stomach and eat within 30 minutes after your workout. This is when the body needs the energy (food) the most and when it will be best utilized.

Slim Schaedle
07-13-2006, 06:49 PM
A calorie intake in the range of 5000 calories is needed if you are interested in getting BIG.
Not to pick on words, but it should go without saying that not everyone (especially beginners who don't weigh alot) need 5,000 calories.

Putting a concrete number out there may cause kids to think they really do need that much.

ShockBoxer
07-13-2006, 07:03 PM
I put on 10 pounds at 2800. 5000 would have slapped my 18% fat ass back to 35% land where I started a year ago.

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
07-13-2006, 07:20 PM
Not to pick on words, but it should go without saying that not everyone (especially beginners who don't weigh alot) need 5,000 calories.

Putting a concrete number out there may cause kids to think they really do need that much.I agree. And I'm starting to see people saying this more lately. "Just eat 7,000 calories and you will definitely get big"...

Yeah...get big in more ways than one.

http://i1.tinypic.com/1zx3alv.jpg

Slim Schaedle
07-13-2006, 07:39 PM
I agree. And I'm starting to see people saying this more lately. "Just eat 7,000 calories and you will definitely get big"...

Yeah...get big in more ways than one.

http://i1.tinypic.com/1zx3alv.jpg
I really wish you would delete those pictures of my girlfriend off of your computer.

She didn't let you take them so that you could parade them around the internet.

Margin Of Error
07-13-2006, 07:42 PM
Not to pick on words, but it should go without saying that not everyone (especially beginners who don't weigh alot) need 5,000 calories.

Putting a concrete number out there may cause kids to think they really do need that much.


I needed 5k calories to break 175 pounds. I think if anything the importance of mass eating is understated on these forums.

Only people with slow metabolism's can eat less than 5k calories and ever get "BIG".

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
07-13-2006, 07:42 PM
I really wish you would delete those pictures of my girlfriend off of your computer.

She didn't let you take them so that you could parade them around the internet.:zipit:

I'm sorry. I'll delete them. :(

Slim Schaedle
07-13-2006, 07:44 PM
if anything the importance of mass eating is understated on these forums.
How long have you been reading these forums?

Marnie
07-14-2006, 03:03 AM
There are 4 main criteria to maintaining a healthy "GET BIG" diet.

1) Sufficient amount of high-quality protein: I am sure you know this is the most important factor in building muscle. Muscle growth also leads to an overall higher metabolism, which in turn burns fat!! The best way to get high-quality protein is through meat, fish, poultry, and milk products. I'd recommend a pretty high protein diet. Between 1.5-2.0 grams/lb. of bodyweight per day. Protein shakes are a good help for this high amount but don't rely on them! (eg. if you weigh 200lbs. then consume between 250g-400g of protein)

2) Sufficient amount of complex carbohydrates: For energy and metabolism. Good ones are oats, rice, whole wheat bread, noodles, etc... eat between 2-2.5 grams/lb. of bodyweight per day of these.

3) Be sure you are eating enough calories: A calorie intake in the range of 5000 calories is needed if you are interested in getting BIG. Ever heard the saying "Eat big... Get big" Of course eating big isn't the only thing that will get you big. You have to eat high-quality food and spend the time in the gym. You can't get something for nothing.

4) Eat according to the clock: This is probably the most important because of the amount of discipline it takes. You should eat 6-7 meals a day. They should be medium sized meals and obviously contain high-quality food (not McDonalds hehehe). Eat according to your workout as well. Always workout on an empty stomach and eat within 30 minutes after your workout. This is when the body needs the energy (food) the most and when it will be best utilized.
No no, never work out on an exmpty stomach. Carbs before workout to give you energy.

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
07-14-2006, 03:18 AM
Only people with slow metabolism's can eat less than 5k calories and ever get "BIG".How do you figure? :scratch:

Coqui
07-14-2006, 06:12 AM
I needed 5k calories to break 175 pounds. I think if anything the importance of mass eating is understated on these forums.

Only people with slow metabolism's can eat less than 5k calories and ever get "BIG".


You are not a large enough sample size to be able to make a definitive statement like that.

The average person maintains at 2000-2500 calories. In that case 2500-3000 is what would be needed to gain. Then there are hard gainers such as yourself who will need 5000+ and there are others who would need 1500

Slim Schaedle
07-14-2006, 09:38 AM
No no, never work out on an exmpty stomach. Carbs before workout to give you energy.
You can have plenty of energy storage even though you are working out on an empty stomach.


I do it all the time.

ShockBoxer
07-14-2006, 10:20 AM
I've got a sort of related question. Right now I'm trying to eat all my sugars and carbs within the first 2400 calories of my day (maintenance). After that point I want to use primarily protein and fat to reach 2900 to hopefully keep my blood sugar stable and minimize fat gain.

Is this useful? Did I just stumble into the reason why people target their carbs? Or am I off in Shockboxerland where things are always more complicated than they need to be?

Eszekial
07-14-2006, 10:27 AM
I needed 5k calories to break 175 pounds. I think if anything the importance of mass eating is understated on these forums.

Only people with slow metabolism's can eat less than 5k calories and ever get "BIG".

19, 200lbs, 11% bodyfat. 6'1.

I'm rather "big."

I eat sub 2000 calories daily.

JustLost
07-15-2006, 12:01 PM
I needed 5k calories to break 175 pounds. I think if anything the importance of mass eating is understated on these forums.

Only people with slow metabolism's can eat less than 5k calories and ever get "BIG".


Extrapolating from a single data point can lead to some really goofy conclusions.

MagnaSephiroth
07-15-2006, 02:11 PM
I personally would never use fast food (except quizno's/subway) and include it as part of a normal day going towards my macros. I am pretty clean, the least clean I eat is unorganic foods like no fat cheese. <shrug>

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
07-15-2006, 02:15 PM
You could try fat full cheese.

MagnaSephiroth
07-15-2006, 02:28 PM
You could try fat full cheese.

Yeah but then it pushes my calorie count up a lot more, and I would rather save those calories for MEAT :evillaugh

JustLost
07-16-2006, 06:41 AM
You could try fat full cheese.


You mean it's okay to eat stuff that tastes good?

Wow...




:thumbup:

Turnip
07-16-2006, 11:52 AM
http://www.goanimal.com/newsletters/2005/food_food_product/food_products.html


maybe this link will help?

Con
07-16-2006, 01:30 PM
I found the guys comment on not eating before workin out more interesting than his calories numbers for getting big.
I always thought it was a must to eat before working out? am i mistaken? Can someone explain to me the advantaes and disadvantages of not eating before a workout?

Turnip
07-16-2006, 01:40 PM
I think it gives energy for the workout, I believe carbs+protein in liquid form is the best as it is absorbed the fastest.

Actually heres a thread about it: http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=61836&highlight=pre+workout+nutrition

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
07-16-2006, 02:18 PM
Yeah but then it pushes my calorie count up a lot more, and I would rather save those calories for MEAT :evillaugh"Saving calories" is more of a cutting thing. :strong:

Davidelmo
07-16-2006, 03:52 PM
Everyone is different.

However, I think it's a good idea to tell a 130lb kid to eat 4000kcal a day. Even if it's overkill, it still give him more of an idea of what "eating big" really is. I was like this - I thought that eating all of the food my mum gave me was eating big, and I didn't get anywhere.

With time, and reading up more, the skinny guy will refine his diet anyway

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
07-16-2006, 04:05 PM
However, I think it's a good idea to tell a 130lb kid to eat 4000kcal a day.No it isn't.



Even if it's overkill, it still give him more of an idea of what "eating big" really is.It would, but it isn't necessary. Everyone's needs are different.

Davidelmo
07-16-2006, 04:09 PM
Didn't I just say that everyones needs are different?

IMO it's better to overestimate and they can bring the cals down themselves. Otherwise they'll get nowhere because they're interpretation of eating "big" is wrong.

If they gain on lower numbers of calories, they probably wouldn't be skinny in the first place..unless they're just not eating of course!

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
07-16-2006, 04:15 PM
This is where the body weight x 15 + 500 cals comes in. If he was 130 pounds, he would start at 2450 and go from there. Or even by 18, which would make it 2840. Then you can tweak that amount and see where it leads from there. But even that can be a horrible experience if the person has only been eating 1300 calories every day because the new bulk could be a nightmare on the stomach.

Davidelmo
07-16-2006, 04:20 PM
True enough, but I'd be shocked if anyone living in the west gets less than 1300kcal a day! Maybe for smaller females, but most guys would get that from just fizzy drinks and a takeaway.

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
07-16-2006, 04:25 PM
I couldn't imagine eating 1,300 calories a day. My breakfast this morning was 1,000 calories.

shootermcgavin7
07-16-2006, 07:48 PM
I am bored to tears on clean bulks.

I'm sure some on the board are familiar with my unorthodox bulking style, but it helps me stay very disciplined on my cuts if I screw off a bit on my bulks.

I am not concerned with stepping on a stage at any point in the future, just with making gains while keeping a reasonable bf %. As a result, I don't feel compelled to keep a strict diet 12 months a year.

ced^_-
07-16-2006, 08:12 PM
19, 200lbs, 11% bodyfat. 6'1.

I'm rather "big."

I eat sub 2000 calories daily.


:soapbox: wish my body was like that.........my cousin is 5'11 224 and he is here for the summer and he eats only twice aday!! and morning and at night..

beachmuscles
07-18-2006, 08:48 PM
There are 4 main criteria to maintaining a healthy "GET BIG" diet.

1) Sufficient amount of high-quality protein: I am sure you know this is the most important factor in building muscle. Muscle growth also leads to an overall higher metabolism, which in turn burns fat!! The best way to get high-quality protein is through meat, fish, poultry, and milk products. I'd recommend a pretty high protein diet. Between 1.5-2.0 grams/lb. of bodyweight per day. Protein shakes are a good help for this high amount but don't rely on them! (eg. if you weigh 200lbs. then consume between 250g-400g of protein)

2) Sufficient amount of complex carbohydrates: For energy and metabolism. Good ones are oats, rice, whole wheat bread, noodles, etc... eat between 2-2.5 grams/lb. of bodyweight per day of these.

3) Be sure you are eating enough calories: A calorie intake in the range of 5000 calories is needed if you are interested in getting BIG. Ever heard the saying "Eat big... Get big" Of course eating big isn't the only thing that will get you big. You have to eat high-quality food and spend the time in the gym. You can't get something for nothing.

4) Eat according to the clock: This is probably the most important because of the amount of discipline it takes. You should eat 6-7 meals a day. They should be medium sized meals and obviously contain high-quality food (not McDonalds hehehe). Eat according to your workout as well. Always workout on an empty stomach and eat within 30 minutes after your workout. This is when the body needs the energy (food) the most and when it will be best utilized.

That is horrible advice.

Paladyr
07-26-2006, 03:06 PM
I needed 5k calories to break 175 pounds. I think if anything the importance of mass eating is understated on these forums.

Only people with slow metabolism's can eat less than 5k calories and ever get "BIG".

You should count calories and figure out approx. how many calories you need. I seriously doubt the majority of people here need to take in 5k in calories to get bigger.

Paladyr
07-26-2006, 03:09 PM
I found the guys comment on not eating before workin out more interesting than his calories numbers for getting big.
I always thought it was a must to eat before working out? am i mistaken? Can someone explain to me the advantaes and disadvantages of not eating before a workout?

Fats are bad pre-workout I think. There may be some benefit in having a small amount but you want to keep fats very low. Your "1-hour before a workout" meal should be high in carbs (like dextrose) and have a small amount of protein.

ShockBoxer
07-26-2006, 03:18 PM
My pre-workout meal is... lunch, six hours or so beforehand.

It doesn't affect my energy level any.